some thirty on saturday night here in the russian capital and with god see are over sushi recap of the headlines norway's nightmare at least ninety two are confirmed dead after two attacks rocked the country a gunman in a police uniform killed eighty five in a shooting spree the youth camp i was after a few blocks south of the center of also seven. police arrested a thirty two year old norwegian a man suspected of being behind both attacks said to have links with the far right movement now

a second man believed to be connected to the atrocities has also been detained just in the last few weeks. and economic troubles just keep on plaguing europe and the us greece's credit rating is under threat following the e.u. agreeing on a question for athens meanwhile america supposedly defaulting on its massive guns after lawmakers failed to agree on raising the debt ceiling. all right so my colleague. but for now it's spotlight this time al gore talks to alexis crow from the royal institute of international affairs to find out whether the revolutions in north africa will lead to greater security threats in the future thank you bill. i am legion and discoveries to be using.

the communication with the law only. test yourself and become free to. see what nature can give you on on the. move. probably a little welcome to spotlight the interview show on r t i love hearing all of them play my guest in the studio as alex is trapped whether last year and the united states were discussing the new start treaty they argued whether or not it would protect europe from potential building in this but very soon a different threat than the revolutions that warfare spread throughout north africa and the middle east toppling regimes and bringing instability to the huge so what

are the biggest threats to european and global security today here's an expert in social security add their while as the chief of the stairs to the first alex spacecraft. last year russia and the united states strengthen ties by signing the new stock nuclear disarmament treaty which warmed russia needs relations and made things clearer with the european missile defense program things are still where they started because the alliance wants to intercept the mistrials deal eastern europe and russia wants guarantees that he won't threaten its security the two parties also disagree with the current middle eastern issues like the syrian. hello exist thank you very much for coming from a show it's a pleasure to have been here and first of all before we start talking about war and missiles and all those things let's talk about the from the more lively things like

the rupert murdoch affair which was really lousy at this holiday season well is it would you would you consider to be in an international international interest in those full scale because of the whole world falling well certainly i mean it's definitely a transatlantic affair because of course rupert murdoch's interest in the wall street journal ties it to the north atlantic business community as well and and attention is drawn towards britain naturally because these sort of scandals of corruption and police chiefs resigning aren't supposed to happen in the old western countries you know these are safer things of other countries but it's happening right in london it's happening right in westminster as we speak. the prime minister killing themselves. there it's you know it's it's an interesting affair and i think also. at the start it wasn't it wasn't very clear how much as

what affects cameron but i think it might affect him greatly i think he he behaved in such a way which was which was fantastic in that he was very candid in the way he responded in a way wasn't guilty of anything but the wave which he was slow to. to punish courson for what had happened i think is going to hurt him in the long run they called people called near a couple of colleagues from different russian. sources countrymen expert in britain saying should we really change the law should they really change the law regulating the work of the press and the lucian between the press and the society and when i said no the new reason i think it's a matter of implementation. because people when people are breaking the law changing the law or maybe i'm not right because people of the government they want to change the law well no i mean i think it's also looking at the way in which the law protects the people in this if you follow the super injunctions scandals as

well in the u.k. and of course we had julian assange orange a year ago. i think the way in which the relationship between the media and technology and people is evolving in such a rapid pace but this is a scandal of all the i mean this is you could write this in a book be fiction it could be a television show a war films this is something i know was there was the bond film in which there was . the villain was loosely based on rupert murdoch i believe so i think the relationship is changing but i don't think we should create new laws or disband all of them simply because they're broken. because of the film does that mean you know we needed the below person to deal with them going to you and the scenes. those are some over the line. ok well. do you think that this me seriously hurry. it is

a business or will it maybe give more publicity to strangers. well i mean certainly not the news of the world of course that one would be selling anytime soon but i think. something like the wall street journal is going to be brilliant and. in a way businessmen like rupert murdoch are brilliant until they become the house of cards comes falling down like it did with for example ken lay and enron but that's not a scandal that kind of proportions i don't think trickling down it's more of a question of his legitimacy so from here on out he's probably going to be completely inhibited in terms of pursuing business. it is harming the reputation of the bridge and presently agree absolutely journalism in general journalism. but i mean i don't think papers for example like the financial times will suffer. hopefully not ok now let's switch to to to to to world peace in the middle east

leaders role is changing in house change a start of that within the stablish your non fly zone over libya and now to go into more offensive operations in the region but the war in libya in its current form is not and was not sanctioned by the united nations does it mean that what the nato is doing in libya is. no i mean i would say that apart from the french dropping weapons. by and large needs who is fighting with its hands tied behind its back it's it's almost crippled in its execution of hostilities there or just underneath hostilities in accordance with the u.s. congress and in order to fight within that remit i believe that it's not fighting as effectively as it can do so i do think that it's fighting within

the u.n. security council along those lines apart from funding weapons. luzhin one t. seventy three of the united nations security council. allowed nato to secure this no fly zone to stop president garfield from slowing his own people work. though the attempts to assassinate canarsie and. there have been a number of them and lately seems to be obsessed with that idea doesn't mean that the real real idea behind the campaign is regime change in the country well if you go back to from the nineteenth of march i'm words there's a real there's a great word in english which is backsliding there was a real backsliding and skidding into what began as a holding un resolution one thousand seventy three and really trying to protect civilians and the slaughter of civilians. for example you had b.h.l.

not only livy and france really pushing this we got to see the civilians much in a sort of recalling rwanda and what happened in kosovo in bosnia. and so that was the real the real tension pushed forward the moment and then you backslide into well how are you going to do that do you need to remove gadhafi from power and in a sense you do so there was a real reticence to use the words regime change and change and then all of a sudden it starts sliding back into this well we don't seek regime change but graphene moscow. and so now the real question is how do you remove a man from power. do you put him in asylum that one of the things is putting him in asylum but within libya but i don't really necessarily know how that's going to work we will see i don't think it will work i don't think that if gadhafi is going to do what would you say is get out if you do believe it because he himself seems

pretty confident that he was he did look worried first couple of weeks but now he seems confident knows he's got staying power the pressure. has got staying power so long. as nato cannot fight a war effectively which it cannot do. because it's fighting within the bounds of the un security council resolution it's not going to really be able to step up its efforts unless it goes back to the security council and another resolution is passed which one wonders if i believe. russia has refused to recognize the libyan rebels as the only legitimate authority in the country's problems in the middle reporters. when nato started its now a theory operation in libya for months ago the u.s. promised not to take sides last week washington changed its mind at an international conference in istanbul you can recognize the levy is transitional

national council is the country's government until an interim authority is in place you know that state will recognize that t.n.c. as the legitimate governing authority for libya and we will deal with it on that basis in contrast the united states used the gadhafi regime as no longer happening within the authority in libya more than thirty nations for would suit now the diplomatic recognition the u.s. will usually be able to fund the garci based opposition it can use some of the thirty billion used dollars of guff the regime assets frozen in american banks russia has condemned in merican decision to a couple of those behind the recognition are fully siding with one political force in the libyan civil war on this again means that those who took this decision are pursuing a policy of isolation in this case they solution of tripoli still in a typical. russia maintains contact with bold tripoli and being guarded urging both

sides to get around the negotiation table meanwhile neither secretary general pulled in the line says numbers to send the aircraft to do the strikes only been targets so far two months in the day involvement have not helped break the deadlock in the civil war. well you mention there are feasibility to resist and it certainly has been underestimated in later what was the reason for this and yesterday shortly torie well i think to begin with again you're fighting as a swordsman with one hand tied behind your back because regime change wasn't mentioned to begin with if you look in the international community in the wider international community sometimes if you look at meters in games with other countries for example afghanistan. and iraq it's given into a bad name it's means that the u.k. and the u.s. are coming to seek regime change sensually and so because of that bad name to begin

with france and britain and the us did not you explicitly did not use the words regime change and of course there's several airpower here is one of them is called eliot cohen from america and he said but the use of airpower exclusive airpower to carry out a political solution is equivalent to modern courtship it offers immediate satisfaction without little guarantees or commitment and so in that sense is a policy of what robert pape calls decapitation decapitation policy literally taking the head off of a regime does little to change anything political the ground as we've so clearly seen in afghanistan with the removal of the taliban as we've seen with the removal of saddam hussein so it's not a policy that works regime change. however i would say that therefore wasn't on the cards to begin with. in that very overt sense but of course it had to be because

you if you're thinking of stopping him killing his citizens you obviously have to stop him. from being in power in some sense says alex's kraut expert on his national security out there law institute all international affairs correspondent will be back shortly after we take a break so stay with. twenty years ago the largest country in the. history of the. us how did. it began a journey. where did it take to. welcome

back to spotlight than just to remind you there were a guest in the studio today is alex's crown an expert on international security at the royal institute of international affairs who we've been talking about gadhafi and there will be talk a little trepidation and you compared it to two saws milf running with the world and behind the tide back but many experience say that even. even if we try to evaluate the operations that have been carried out that it was

a true fiasco do you do you agree without the will truly the military did a lousy really lousy job on the ground i think this is symptomatic of the west's attention deficit disorder we might say it looks it looks at a problem area it looks at an issue it is size it wants to solve it and then it liberates too quickly and hard to solve it so was too little too late and this is of course what a lot of people said about obama's decision to step out troops in afghanistan that it took him far too long to deliberate over this decision so i would agree i would say that in libya either we shouldn't gone in at all. we should have done something like this which of course is not the nature of coalition fighting i'm reminded of the ins comments when he said next time i thought i would maybe against the coalition. but is there

a military solution in libya in the region in general. do you believe in the interest of no i think this is the great the single greatest problem of modern conflict. anywhere this term anywhere and this is the problem is. does need to have the military capacity to wage coalition warfare yes it does granted if you have partners such as germany on board you know the danes are actually quite on board so it doesn't have the capacity yes it does of course there's political infighting things called national it's. and and problems of material however the real question is political will and does it have the political will to sustain operations on the ground and afghanistan in the last decade has proven no we don't have like a part of the rule is no consensus because germany you mentioned italy the learn exactly enthusiastic about all this but. at least what do you

think a compromise between britain and france is the main partners in the you know this well i think in the architects of the franco british defense treaty were very glad to see that france and britain have agreed and continued to agree and really rally around in europe and knocking on other leaders towards an across the globe it's not love visit. no i would say it's a marriage with love do you think of britain different in general i mean this possibly it is renewed passion in the middle. of this specific issue of the one hundred million i don't want specifically looking girl. strikes are not working so do you think that nato. really old invasion the world will be going for a resolution of the security council for a full scale good question no i don't see what you will have what you have had since the start are spread what's equivalent of what kennedy sense special advisers

on the ground in vietnam and you have special forces on the ground i think increasingly in modern conflict you will see special forces operating on the ground in a small sort of shadow capacity. i think you'll continue to see that but not a ground invasion proof revenge of russia. moscow will look supported a resolution against syria's bashar regime does it undermine common approach towards the problem. well this these visas generally tend to do so in russia would china. it is something when the security council of course attracts from the world but i think it seems to me that at the moment any kind of potential military solution all or any kind of resolution against syria wouldn't happen at the moment i met as as i understand it and i'm not an expert on the middle east per se but as i understand it. is is making efforts to negotiate with opposition

this and insofar as it continues to do that i think it will buy him time is it be the security council ok now there is a risk as experts say that the assistance given to the rebels to go to the so-called trans national transitional national committee will go to to al qaeda elements that are present within the ranks of this can really. do think there are grounds for for a search for such extradition and not if you make a connection to al qaeda that's a quote it is quite a long connections mean i don't even think you need to make up for of a connection simply because do we really know who the big guys the rebels are and i think this is a big question did we really know who the majority in were when the c.a.a. funded them back during the war in afghanistan and in this this is the real

question is not necessarily linked to al qaeda a word to. you i am not hiding something but even to any other group flooding fighting a civil war essentially or an area. and a civil war with weapons is not necessarily an inviolable policy you have no idea where those weapons wind up or who those people will be eventually because a good question of what happens to countries lie a likely be after the war is over so we just leave them and we just stop fighting it out so that it will turn them into sort of an afghanistan local law or lawless land. like a nice place for all those clowns and rend and groupings then and. who all the tried tribal leaders coming to power but if we want to to establish a sustainable peace in the country it's a long and costly for do you think that the europeans will be ready to to go for it

in times of crisis economic difficulties i don't think the west has the political will or the attention span to see that out i think the west is losing its attention span shorter and shorter kids focused on under massive political consolidation look at what's going on within europe within the euro doing inevitable regard to greece and now to to new debt ceilings in italy look at the congressional battles in washington i as you can see the tensions and snaps so i don't think. a lasting peace will be stabilized and imposed by the european union by need all or by the us. it is another thing. if. people within the know if they will decide to go for peace too to work for or for for a treaty between khadafi and the rebels will they will that mediators like like south

africa for example or russia step in and try to to to to set up with a grievance because this would this would disclose the previous policy which was the. i would think eventually i would think that i believe that that makes sense i know that the president zuma just got into sort of deep growl with cameron in south africa over this matter and i as i understand you sent your great chess experts to negotiate so i mean i think about is what makes sense in terms of bringing in other members of the international community in their experiences of resolving conflicts . what do you think. libya's word means for the future of nato and the the e.u. common defense project does it need rethinking is it in the in the elite rethinking process the moment a sign of things to come i think increasingly we will see coalitions of the willing

we saw in iraq. like we saw a local we're seeing in libya. i think what will happen within nato is you will see these coalitions of the willing group around certain issue areas so for example with cyber defense with climate change or with nuclear defense and in terms of i think it's ringing the death toll the interventionism i think the imposing values of the point of a gun hopefully is a policy which is being rid of the west as we speak in libya at the moment it's highly ineffective this week as we discussed and. it seems that. russia's proposal to share the responsibility for europe's missile defense according to the sexual principle is it a sign of the persisting distrust in europe towards the russian. i think that the problem within europe itself is that you've got so many different

phases towards russia there's a german gaze and there's a british gaze and there's a french gaze and there's an italian gaze and very very very seldomly do all of these cases look in the same direction and so i think this would just be symptomatic of european relations with moscow but i say i mean as i see it i think that the european union does far better in negotiating with russia as a collective entity than nato does but i think things initiatives like the native russia council are very valuable and even if they disintegrate at some point it's important if even if they're sort of suspended they don't disintegrate so i think it's important to keep them in place and you know the real of the united states it seems that for the first time in decades the u.s. is not pulling the leading role in the military operation doesn't it put the idea of so dependent european defense policy into the absolutely absolutely and i think

this is this is again indicative of a shift of of washington's gaze toward the east if you look at what secretary of defense bob gates one of his last sort of tours he talked about the pacific and the importance of the pacific and the way in which washington's attention will be much more focused on pacific looking at newer global strategic partners in a way that france germany britain might not be the default strategic ally and i think that is that is indicative of things to come thank you thank you very much and just reminding that my guest in the studio today was alex this crowd the next group of international security at the royal institute of international affairs and their sister now a model of spotlight we'll be back with more and comments on what's going on in the show little went directly take.

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