ok matt you're with are you the guns for hire company accused of killing seventeen and is in iraq is goes on trial in the u.s. but only on accusations of overbilling blackwater now known as elijah lee charged too much for protecting u.s. officials and war zones. norway releases the names of victims from friday's twin attack as the suspects lawyer says his client is unaware he killed seventy six people some experts are warning the spread of entities a lot of sentiment in europe could lead to more graphic style terror. need to lead

he's deployed along possibles northern border with serbia to call and ask awaiting as the tensions over a chance to enforce a trade embargo the e.u. and the u.s. led international condemnation of the action that resulted in one police officer being killed. in the wake of norwegian mass murder peter lloyd valid he's guest discuss possibilities of such atrocities being repeated elsewhere that's a cross talk that's coming up next. wealthy british style. markets. can find out what's really happening to the global economy for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines to cause a report on r.g.p.

. you can. follow me and welcome the cross-talk i'm peter lavelle the color of terrorism as norway comes to terms with its most horrific attack on its soil since the second world war a plethora of questions demand answers how could this assault be planned and executed under the radar of the authorities and as the west focused too much on islamic groups instead of homegrown extremists and terrorists. can. start. to cross talk the rise of far right nationalism i'm joined by my guests in london assad ali he's chair of the muslim safety forum and stephen gash he is spokesperson for stop islamization of europe all right gentlemen this is crosstalk that means you can jump in anytime you want

but first let's see how the oslo attacks may influence political discourse in europe. i hope the tragedy that struck norway on friday has become yet another grim reminder of the growing threat of far right extremism a problem long since recognized but unresolved in europe with the body count still in progress authorities and politicians in europe are left to re-evaluate the spread of domestic radicalism and possibly recast the profile of a modern day terrorist i am the overall sense of grief over such a high death toll as a result of a bombing of a federal building in oslo and a shooting rampage at a labor party youth camp we have a. story for you. actually waiting orange. you know democracy in. the region people to the admission of the need to ask hard questions particularly how one man was able to burn such

destruction without being stopped will want to make sure that we like all those any lessons there are to learn about how to be more secure against horrific outrages like this indeed lessons need to be learned to identify terrorist threats such as the charge anders behring breivik long before they happen has fifteen hundred word manifesto posted hours before the carnage denounced the government's failure to protect norway from islamic influence nurture of and europe's growing climate of hatred that comprises a mix of enter immigrant sentiments racism and economic recession brave exposition mirrors a civilized political debate about multiculturalism across europe. this is not a cultural approach to simply leave starbucks so much and a happy about each other this approach is feel odd to feel the attacks have been billed questions that strike a chord with politicians across the entire political spectrum what does it mean to be european tolerant and open the answers to these questions until very different

outcomes the most extreme of which was played out in oslo was the question but now hans public opinion and policymakers since the nine eleven attacks against the us the western world has focused its attention and resources on what it deems our security threats from these law make world so will the attacks on our slow carried out meticulously by a right wing christian prompt the worst you could knowledge the new face of a modern day terrorist suspect. nasa charnel for class. as i'd like to start with you in london do you think how do you look at this horrific attack in our shows you see it extensions of the type of rhetoric that we hear from right wing political parties in europe this gentleman before he pulled off this horrific. attack used the language that you can hear very often across europe about. about immigrants immigration about islam about the koran

except for so here's a man that spoke in extreme terms in that even more extreme yes absolutely and let me add my condolences and heartfelt sorrow for what did take place i mean this barbaric acts of terrorism that took place is an extension of and seamlessly islamophobia a trend that is sweeping europe and it is like you mentioned the extreme end of that wedge and unfortunately i think i do agree with a lot of what your reporter said earlier which is that a disproportionate amount of resources and time has been allocated in dealing with one strand of terrorism at the expense of others we have europol and others who have indicated for years way back from two thousand and six that the threat from far right extremism and acts of terrorism from them is something real and should be

taken seriously ok stephen what do you think about this attack here because again this this norwegian man i mean he was part of a lot of these different groups had repaired european that were very anti immigration anti muslim and here's and he steps further he stepped way over the line in our slow what is a difference between the rhetoric that we hear across europe and the little bit of the i mean further where you get this kind of attack. well first of all i have to join my fellow guest in offering my condolences and commiserations to the families of the victims and also in no way itself it's a complete disgusting act that this man perpetrated to get to your question i actually think this man is a one off he's reported as being anti islam is and but it's notable that the target that he chose was wasn't muslims it wasn't mosques or anything like that it was indeed the ruling party of norway the rhetoric that he espoused.

a myriad of some of the language that he used against islam is at the moment but he is diametrically opposed to stop islamization of europe's tactics and methods and strategies because we have always been a peaceful organization we've always had demonstrations conferences and i've written articles. and such events are always authorized and okayed by the police and author it is here we are a peaceful organization and this woman is in my view a one off i live in the north of england and recently we've had a car does not make this point because. it is an exception that proves the rule really in the north of england not far from where i live we had a similar event of mass. and nobody knows what the motivations were for the horrific attacks this man is reported to opinion and his limits we have no record

of him joining our group told he was summarily thrown out of the facebook group which is the fleetest contact that he had with us. so if he was found out that he had nazi links or your nazi links he was thrown off because be fundamentally anti totalitarian as a group we oppose not only is our meal here for communism a nazi is ok resided is going to be there you want to go ahead it's like yeah i mean. i think steven what he says is me he's half right which is that tactics are different but the rhetoric is the same this man is in his own words he is an anti muslim and he hates muslims and the reason he chose his government and these young people on a holiday island is because he sees them as the people who failed to protect norwegian society from this influence of islam in his own eyes and his links to

far right extremist organizations like the english defense league is well documented and we had last night the leader of the english defense league actually issued a threat on live on national television saying that you know in five years you can expect similar attacks in the in the u.k. so the link there is very very strong ideology ideologically they come from the same place yes the tactic this individual decided to take was different however he's not alone he's already told the police that you know there's fifteen to eighty people there who are ready to do what he's done is declaring himself to be belong to the knights templars you know where we're going back into history here he's bringing up. the rhetoric of the crusades so this man is not acting alone his not deranged he's not a lunatic he knows exactly what he's doing and he did it in a car and collected and very very well organized way how on earth can this guy on

the planning there was four years without being detected from the security services or anyone else simply the answer is simply because with this proposed. amount of time has been placed on looking at one strand of terrorism at the expense of the other what do you think about that stephen because you know if we can call this blonde on blonde terrorism here because we will talk a little bit later about the disproportional focus on islam in europe when it comes to terrorism which actually if we did some research it's miniscule can compared to other terrorist acts committed by nationalist groups in europe but what about that i mean you know if you look at the media the first thing you hear was oh it's the islamic attack on europe and then they shifted it ok and then all of a sudden it became a fundamentalist i mean even the rhetoric and how we talk about these things is so completely different because of a skin color of a religion and we're some people come from in the world. well first of all i'd like to say the react the immediate reaction chose that. grave it was the

exception that proves the rule the automatic assumption was that it was muslim terrorism because that is the the norm for our present. so it was like the saying sorry. i didn't interrupt you and that i will have my story on your own person statement sure. but basically. i don't believe he has any links at all to any right wing groups and the language i agree with the fellow guest the language actually has to change the left wing and right wing far right far left it is meaningless now people are more sophisticated in that we go people from a broad spectrum of political persuasions on our demonstrations are not left wing or not right wing they perceive a threat to their culture and identity and they come out and demonstrate against it . you know this knights templar thing i think it's complete boni i don't believe

they exist it's something that historically on an english nationalist and a fervent english nationalist and i know that of the groups that are involved with english nationalism in this knights templar three is a complete fabrication so i don't believe it is got any links at all with any english nationalists but the other thing i was going to say was i'm going to want to jump in there before we go to the break i had here i mean what stephen fails to recognize and this is problematic is since nine eleven there has been a concerted and well organized orchestrated campaign from neo conservative islamophobia groups think tanks input training anything that happens in the world as you know it's a form of islam it's the fall of muslims etc etc that's why you have when this horrific act took place that's why you have experts one after the other coming in and saying things like all of this has. the whole marks of al qaeda this is an

islamist that's ok so i'm going to jump in here we're going to go toward south sudan short break we'll continue our discussion on the oslo tragedy stay with our feet. plain and. see if you're followed up on my death rather than this. sort of a throwback to an archaic part of our law. and it goes back to a time when people with right out of the forces in the wild lands and pick up these huge debts important to mention the sheriff from prosecution the mother in law company may. kill. them when they go out there it's tough when split and you have to hope that nothing bad.

loans. were chasing killers if you feel you have to keep that in mind others are to me a dollar bill because the rest. will not superhero be can be killed to you know they shoot me in the head i'm going to die. and. was you hunted man you're never go back to hunt anything else. the last time the close of team was in the cool down richard herman flock from all over the world out a few centimeters to their self-confidence if this time our t.v. goes to the on the reach if for the cold war still gets people like joe took her in to try flights to save its culture look where cranes are protected in the first down on official nature reserve. to the original . bush a close up on the party. can

. welcome back you know about to remind you we're talking about extremism in europe. you can. see. ok as on i go back to you in a comment that you made before we went to the break about how the media and al qaeda it's quite interesting that in the fifteen hundred page manifesto that was left behind there was an enormous amount of admiration actually for al qaeda because of its tactics i mean that is going to be one of the greatest irony is that all this considering that media and many politicians including the united states and simply said this is al qaeda or al qaeda like operation this is this telling us they were missing this is a huge security lapse and on the part of western governments because it's their own

homegrown people that are committing most of these acts of terrorism. yeah i mean before i answer that if i could finish the point i was trying to make earlier even today you would find mainstream media do not call what took place in wall a a terrorism act they don't report it as a terrorist act there that you know they they call it everything but terrorist acts that's one thing second thing is like we heard our prime minister and he doesn't use the word terrorism this man's admiration for terrorism is a plane he using his own worst to admire another terrorist organization and here we are denying that this man is have what his committee it is is anything but an act of terrorism and i think this rhetoric that the media has you know over over the last ten years been dr ated in moscow what we need to do is we need to work on facts you know if we are solely believe in one society many cultures you know where we are one society but we allow for many cultures and people to have individual

freedoms human rights to do as they please within the boundaries of the law but for us to and sustain this and maintain this we have to operate. with integrity and unfortunately a lot of our commentators politicians and media do not meet those requirements are the same only it is a fact is a fact in media then we went from a terrorist attack to a lunatic a nutcase fundamentalist i mean it should be but the act is no different than an act of caring that would be nine eleven local home a city seven seven in london i mean it's the same thing but it's a fundamentalist and it's a nut case. well i agree entirely with that such. as the view but there's a big is every bit as much an enemy of democracy as those who bombed the london buses and juice and that's not only muslims it also includes irish fascists who found london island back in the eighty's so you know this is

a strategy which is a terrorist strategy and please the point being made because i totally agree this was an act of terrorism the thing about other to go back to the point about. bravery and. what was regarding the fact that the the leader of the on the program. british television last night i was invited to speak on our program and i wish to make the point made the point that he was a one off he isn't. he doesn't resemble or is not representative of the groups that are demonstrating or and he is the mr if you like he's a he's a one off so i don't think there's going to be any more of these kinds of actions. i don't know maybe a story so you will i suspect that he was and they did hear you just does that does that make one point i think what we will see we will see the kind of actions that

peter tatchell talk against the church of england synod where he invaded and i think we're going to see maybe mosques surrounded invaded or or not even gatherings being disrupted that may happen so those are still going on in our and i do believe i don't believe you know you're not going to see any can carry on a great. so i guess i mean you were just going to you were just going to say there was a going to be an act of terrorism we have five mosques that has been sent power to wipe out a substance that the police are treating very very seriously we have mosques that are daily vandalize we have muslims that have been killed we have an elderly man who was killed on a bus simply because he was a muslim yes and with his eyes i didn't see the language of you muslim go back home look see i didn't say really very very seriously that we have what we have our senior is a squalling i honestly have a senior police officer and you are saying terrorist the way i think the right wing

is very very likely ok this is the reality is that it can go where it is the. head i did a freedom of information request to crown process prosecution service about the murder at the bus stop and asked why it wasn't treated as a racist attack as it was in the first place and the reason was it was it wasn't right wing nationalists as you like to call them who perpetrated that murder it was a group of local youths had nothing to do with any right wing groups at all and the crown prosecution service actually obfuscated all the requests i may and in the end they said they were going going to give me no information because it. was it was concerned with the case notes and they weren't subjects people like people like the leader of the e.t.l. they admire i mean he was on national television a green with many of the messages out of the fifteen hundred words he only disagreed with one thing which was the terrorist act itself where he agreed with

everything else the rhetoric was there and then before he finished he categorically issued a threat saying in five years' time this is going to happen unless you wake up unless you wake up and there's a good this is not the thing is i want to say this person is when he was inishmaan point. for this person drug he is all. the norwegian police there's another to sell them ok he's put in his own manifesto and he's mentioned that a norwegian police already has worked with english defense league there are seven regulars i was pleased to and that's an important point stephen you can reply to that please go ahead i said to serve the news papers and television that i don't believe that this sort of thing is going to happen again but underlying threat that you've got if we're not listened to you going to see more terrorist attacks i just think i believe it's a load of rubbish we're not going to see this kind of thing happen in england we're not going to see it happening across europe this man was

a one off and nobody will ever get to know what his motivations were but i will say this about that i'm pleased that his hearing is being held in secret because we've been trying for years to get the the place of islam in western democracy discussed an old we've been called a fascist and a phobic race is ok it's all right this is just let me go to the story so this man for forfeited his rights by this atrocious act of mass murder i don't want to hear is views because he is a murderer he focused even steven he last years you find hereis know his views are he left fifteen hundred pages of mine as i'd like to go to you when the police when the police apprehended him they called him by his name they knew who he was. exactly and this is something that i think is very interesting i mean they know the music he was around he knew it is views were but he bought six tons of

fertilizer that's a huge zero dollar. can you imagine someone with a muslim name buying six sun fertilizer there will be a raid immediately and this is the point i was making earlier was you know you only say to yourself an overwhelming amount you when you do you know allocate your resources disproportionately do you and make these big clearing mystique ok didn't this man to another firing it for us and he had all. but that's my point zero point years second point is very very naive for sleeve and i'm very very dangerous and you know and we all hope there are no more terrorism acts but it's very very naive to think this was a one off and it's not like it's a happened if you look at the right wing and see slimy and. rhetoric in europe it is far higher than the u.k. for sure we have countries in the u.k. countries in europe who are banning certain acts of islam so they ban the minaret

ban the wearing of all of these things i haven't even seen in the u.k. it's not that bad at the moment there you go he says it's good to see it now when you impinge on people's human rights and what are you talking about a liberal democracy you talk about democracy could not even read was you in reply to that i had stephen replied it is that's a very good point because you look at saudi arabia which is the center of islam that's where america is all of the religions are banned and yet the western governments germany is just so. only the first day i want to be interesting i mean you. will not be interrupting you stephen. germany has just sold two hundred tanks to. saudi arabia and we've sold jet fighters there g.b. asli now you can bet your life not one of those tanks will find its way to afghanistan to fight the taliban nor will it will they find their way into iraq to fight al qaida and the taliban their. own planning little telling her prefer search

perverse forms of islam is not a jew to lead us to be attacked israel meanwhile cibola do we have a woman's decision to wear a certain type of clothing what on earth was going to sell it is our idea i mean the iraq uncertainty over whom and how do you know you guys are you going towards your salary is a like we're very lucky because i'd like to ask you let me give you the last word in the product line in the figures as i where do you think the multiculturalism discussion is going to go now in europe after this horrific event. i think people with common sense will see that we need to be one society with many cultures and we need to be on the front four which is being positive building relationships understanding each other i think the rhetoric of what's the even represents and his organization represents is is the cause of the things that we have just like it is for any religion any ideology extremists you know we need to shun them we need to

marginalize them and unfortunately stephen represents those kind of views so the way forward is that we are working on our front for bill positive relationship and recognize that we are one society with many cultural case even you were a part of that before we end well mohammad was the original terrorists he was the one who coined the phrase which is in the koran which is taught in every mosque throughout the world muslims make war on the co farhood to all around you and they are need say no nor he was the original terrorist he was the original not say cleanse the arabian peninsula of all jews all right gentlemen there was a very heated debate here many thanks to my guest today in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. to see you next time and remember rascals. take a. stand. if you want to.

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