hard work about you without the law from moscow where it's now a half past the hour a quick recap of the stores now the guns for hire company accused of killing seventeen innocent iraqis goes on trial in the u.s. but only on accusations of over billing blackwater now known as the allegedly charging too much for protecting u.s. officials in was. in no way releases the names of victims from friday's twin attacks as the expense warned of the spread of and see islamic sentiment in europe

could lead to more atrocities. nato led peacekeepers are deployed along because of those in northern border with the calm escalating ethnic tensions over attempts to enforce a trade embargo the e.u. and the us led international condemnation of the action that resulted in one police officer being killed. now it's across talk is coming up next year and of course in the wake of noways mass murder the people of el now in his guests discuss the likelihood of such atrocities ever being replayed repeated elsewhere do statements or not. wealthy british science. guys. markets. can find out what's really happening to the global economy for no holds

barred look at the global financial headlines to name two cars a report on our team. can. follow a welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle the color of terrorism as norway comes to terms with its most horrific attack on its soil since the second world war a plethora of questions demand answers how could this assault be planned and executed under the radar of the authorities and as the west focused too much on islamic groups instead of homegrown extremists and terrorists. can start. to cross talk the rise of far right nationalism i'm joined by my guests in london izod ali he's chair of the muslim safety forum and stephen gas he is spokesperson for stop islamization of europe all

right gentlemen this is crosstalk that means you can jump in anytime you want but first let's see how the oslo attacks may influence political discourse in europe. are you over the tragedy that struck norway on friday has become yet another grim reminder of the growing threat of far right extremism a problem long since recognized but unresolved in europe with the body count still in progress authorities and politicians in europe are left to re-evaluate the spread of domestic radicalism and possibly recast the profile of a modern day terrorist i am whole sense of grief over such a high death toll as a result of a bombing of a federal building and are slow and the shooting rampage at a labor party youth camp as we. already know it. we have more democracy in. the region people to the admission of the need to ask hard questions particularly how one man

was able to burn such destruction without being stopped will want to make sure that we like all those any lessons there are to learn about how to be more secure against horrific like this indeed lessons need to be learned to identify terrorist threats such as the charge anders behring breivik long before they happen has fifteen hundred word manifesto posted hours before the carnage denounced the government's failure to protect norway from islamic influence nurtured in europe's growing climate of hatred that comprises a mix of enter immigrant sentiments racism and economic recession brave exposition mirrors a civilised political debate about multiculturalism across europe. this is not a cultural approach simply to simply leave. and a happy about each other this approach is feel odd to feel the attacks have been billed questions that strike a chord with politicians across the entire political spectrum what does it mean to

be european tolerant and open the answers to these questions until very different outcomes the most extreme of which will split out in our slow was the question but now hans public opinion and policymakers since the nine eleven attacks against the us the western world has focused its attention and resources on what it deems a security threats from these lamas world so will the attacks on our slow carried out meticulously by a right wing christian prompt the worst you could knowledge the new face of a modern day terrorist suspect. it was a channel for class stock. market as i'd like to start with you in london do you think how do you look at it this horrific attack in our shows this is extreme extension of the type of rhetoric that we hear from right wing political parties in europe this gentleman before he pulled off this horrific.

attack used the language that you can hear very often across europe about. about immigrants immigration about islam about the koran except for so here's a man that spoke in extreme terms inactive even more extreme yes absolutely and let me add my condolences and heartfelt sorrow for what did take place i mean this barrick acts of terrorism that took place is an extension of and to muslim islamophobia prend that is sweeping europe and it is like you mentioned the extreme end of that wedge and unfortunately i think i do agree with a lot of what your reporter said earlier which is that this proportionate amount of resources and time has been allocated in dealing with one strand of terrorism at the expense of others we have europol and others who have indicated for years way back from two thousand and six that the threat from extremism and terrorism from

them is something real and should be taken seriously ok stephen what do you think about this attack here because again this was norwegian man i mean he was part of a lot of these different groups of repairing european that were very anti immigration and i'm muslim and here's a step further he stepped way over the line in arsal well it's a difference between the rhetoric that we hear across europe and the little bit of the i mean further where you get this kind of attack. well first of all i have to join my fellow guest in offering my condolences and commiserations to the families of the victims and also in norway itself is a complete disgusting act the this man perpetrated you get your question and i actually think this man is a one off he's reported as being an anti islam is. but it's notable that the target that he chose was wasn't muslims it wasn't gnostics or anything like that it was

indeed the ruling party of norway the rhetoric that he espoused. a myriad some of the language that he used against islamist at the moment but he is diametrically opposed to stop islamization of europe stack ticks and methods and strategies because we have always been a peaceful organization we've always had demonstrations conferences and i've written articles. and such events are always authorized and okayed by the police north or it is here we are a peaceful organization and this woman is in my view a one off i live in the north of england and recently we've had i just not made this point because. this is an exception that proves the rule really in the north of england not far from where i live we had a similar event of mass murder and nobody knows what the motivations worth of the

her horrific attacks this man is reported to opinion and he is the most we have no record of him joining our group at all he was summarily thrown out of the facebook group which is the fleetest contact that he had with others. as he was found out that he had nazi links on your nazi links he was thrown off because we're fundamentally anti totalitarian as a group we oppose not only is our army here a corporate communism a nazi is ok as i did enjoy enjoyed being there you are a kind i gotta hand it out yeah i mean. i think steven what he says is me he has his half right which is that tactics are different but the rhetoric is the same this man is in his own words he is an anti muslim and he hates muslims and the reason he chose his government and these young people on a holiday island is because he sees them as the people who failed to protect norwegian society from this influence of islam in his own eyes and his links to

far right extremist organizations like the english defense league is well documented and we had last night the leader of the english defense league actually issued a threat on live on national television saying that you know in five years you can expect similar attacks in the in the u.k. so the link there is very very strong ideology ideologically they come from the same place yes the tactic this individual decided to take was different however he's not alone he's already told the police but you know this fifteen to eighty people out there who are ready to do what he's done is declaring himself to be long to the knights templars you know where we're going back into the history here he's bringing up. rhetoric of the crusades so this man is not acting alone he's not deranged he's not a lunatic he knows exactly what he's doing and he did it in a calm collected and very very well organized way how on earth can this be done the

planning there was for years without being detected from the security services or anyone else simply the answer is simply because that disproportionate amount of time has been placed on looking at one strand of terrorism at the expense of the other what do you think about that steven because you know it's we call this blonde on blonde terrorism here because we will talk a little bit later about the disproportional focus on islam in europe when it comes to terrorism which actually i did some research it's minuscule compared to other terrorist acts committed by nationalist groups in europe but what about that i mean you know if you look at the media the first thing you hear was oh it's the islamic attack on europe and then they shifted it ok and then all of a sudden it became a fundamentalist i mean even the rhetoric and how we talk about these things is so completely different because of a skin color of a religion and words some people come from in the world. well first of all i'd like

to say the react the immediate reaction shows that. ray vick was the exception that proves the rule the automatic assumption was that it was muslim terrorism because that is the the norm for our present valley's. sorry but it was like. i know you i didn't i didn't interrupt you and that i will have my story on the air and i'm seriously sure. but basically. i don't believe he has any links at all to any right wing groups and the language i agree with the fellow guest the language actually has to change the left wing and right wing far right far left is meaningless now people are more sophisticated in that we go people from a broad spectrum of political persuasions on our demonstrations are not left wing the not right wing they perceive a threat to their culture and identity and they come out and demonstrate against it

. you know this knights templar thing i think it's complete boning i don't believe exist is something that historically our manipulation nationalist and a fervent english nationalist and i i know that of the groups that are involved with english nationalism in this knights templar to me is a complete fabrication so i don't believe it is got any links at all with any english nationalists. the only thing i was going to say was i going i do want to jump in there before we go to the break i had here i mean what stephen fails to recognize and this a problematic is since nine eleven there has been a concerted and well organized orchestrated campaign for me a conservative islamophobia groups think tanks input training anything that happens in the world as you know it's a form of islam it's the fall of muslims etc etc that's why you had when this horrific act took place that's why you had experts one after the other coming in

and saying things like i will this house. the whole mocks of al qaeda this is an islamist that's ok so i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to embrace a sound and short break we'll continue our discussion on the oslo tragedy stay with our feet. ok. if you're followed up on my death. in this. sort of a trial back in the archaic part of our law. and it goes back to a time when people would write down their forces in the wild lands and pick up these huge and it's important to mention the sheriff for the prosecution the one thing the company may well know. when they go out there to stop weapons.

and they have to hope that nothing bad. will. were chasing killers if you keep that in mind others the two million dollars they'll be the rest. were not superheroes they can be killed to you know base should be in the head i'm going to die. and. was you hunted man you know never go back on anything else. will comes with what makes a big splash in the world of toxic use next questions in advance science into i ching products they don't understand cocaine which is he's got he followed russian invaders to egypt beaters abroad and their big break through back home spotlight on stone once acknowledge the update here on which we've got the future covered.

ok. welcome back if you're all about to remind you we're talking about extremism in europe. can. stir. up as i want to go back to you in a comment that you made before we went to the break about how the media and al qaeda it's quite interesting that in the fifteen hundred page manifesto that was left behind there was an enormous amount of admiration actually for al qaeda because of its tactics i mean that is going to be one of the greatest ironies in all this considering that media and many politicians including the united states instantly said this is al qaeda or al qaeda like operation this is this telling us they were missing this is a huge security lapse and on the part of western governments because it's their own

homegrown people that are committing most of these acts of terrorism. yeah i mean before i answer that if i could finish the point i was trying to make earlier even today you would find mainstream media do not call what took place in norway a terrorism act they don't report it as a terrorist act that you know they call it everything but terrorists acts that's one thing second thing is like we heard our prime minister and he doesn't use the word terrorism this man's admiration for terrorism is plain if he using his own words so admire another terrorist organization and here we are denying that this man is have his committee it is anything but an act of terrorism and i think this rhetoric that the media has you know over over the last ten years indoctrinated in moscow what we need to do is we need to work on facts you know if we are solely believe in one society many cultures here where we are one society but we allow for many cultures and people to have their individual freedoms human rights to do as

they please within the boundaries of the law but for us to and sustain this and maintain this we have to operate in an honest and interact with integrity and unfortunately a lot of our commentators politicians and media do not meet those requirements i mean there are just a million here is a fact is a fact in media then we went from a terrorist attack to a lunatic a nutcase christian fundamentalists i mean it should be but the act is no different than an act of terror that would be you know nine eleven operator almost thirty seven seven in london i mean it's the same thing but it's a fundamentalist and it's a nutcase. well i agree entirely with that such. as the view and the brave is every bit as much an enemy of democracy as those who bombed the london buses and tubes and that's not only muslims it also includes irish fascists who bombed london island back in the eighty's so you know this is

a strategy which is a terrorist strategy and i'm pleased the point to be made because i totally agree this was an act of terrorism the the thing about other to go back to the point of our. brave and. what was said regarding the fact that the the leader of the on the program. british television last night i was invited to speak on the program and i wish to make a point made the point that he was a one off he isn't. he doesn't resemble or is not representative of the groups that are demonstrating or and he is the midst if you like he's a he's a one off so i don't think this kind of any more of these kinds of actions. you know that was one of the main is the seriously we're launching this is not yours and they did hear you does that doesn't it make one point i think what we will see we will see the kind of actions that peter tatchell talk against the church of

england synod where he invaded and i think we're going to see maybe mosques person around it invaded or muslim gatherings being disrupted that may happen so those are still going to include in our backyard and i don't believe i don't believe you know again i'm going to see any. can carry on and. i mean you were just going to you were just going to say there was a going to be an act of terrorism we have five mosques that has been sent powder white powder substance that the police are treating very very seriously we have mosques that are daily vandalize we have muslims that have been killed we have an elderly man who was killed in the past simply because he was a muslim and with i did use the language of you muslim go back home look see i did say really really very seriously this we have what we have our senior is our scholars are going to say i see more of this office as well and you are saying they

are terrorists within the right wing is very very likely ok this is the reality do women who is it it can go where is the. head i got a freedom of information request the crown plaza so prosecution service about that murder at the bus stop and asked why it wasn't treated as a racist attack as it was in the first place and the reason was because it wasn't right wing nationalist as you like to call them who perpetrated that murder it was a group of local youths had nothing to do with any right wing groups at all and the crown prosecution service actually obfuscated all the requests i may and in the end they said they were going to going to give me no information because it. was it was concerned with the case notes and they weren't of jack's people like people like the leader of the e.t.l. they admire i mean he wasn't a national television green with many of the messages out of the fifteen hundred words he only disagreed with one thing which was the terrorist act itself but he

agreed with everything else the rhetoric was there and then before he finished even he categorically issued a threat sane in five years' time this is going to happen unless you wake up at least you wake up and there's a good this is not the thing is i want to say this person has a lot when he was very little english my point stephen lewis from what is. for this person interrupt he told the norwegian police there's another to sell them ok he's put in his own manifesto and he's mentioned that a norwegian police already that he's worked with english defense league there are seven million was actually standing room and that's an important point stephen you can reply to that please go ahead r. i said to serve the newspapers and television that i don't believe that this sort of thing is going to happen again but underlying threat that you've got if we're not listened to you going to see more terrorist attacks i just think i believe it's a load of rubbish we're not going to see this kind of thing happen in england we're not going to see it happening across europe this man was

a one off nobody will ever get to know what his motivations were but i will say this about that i'm pleased that his hearing is being held in secret because we've been trying for years to get to the place of islam in western democracy discussed and all we've been called a fascist and a phobic race is ok goats are is understood this any good anyway the point so this man for forfeited his rights by this atrocious act of mass murder i don't want to hear is views because he is a murderer he focused even steven he last years you find is very nearly his views are he left fifteen hundred pages of mine as i'd like to go to you when the police when the police apprehended him they called him by his name they knew who he was. exactly this is something i think is very interesting i mean they know the music he was around he knew it is views were bugging me he bought six tons of fertilizer

that's a huge security last can you imagine someone with the name buying six sun fertilizer there will be a raid immediately and this is the point i was making earlier wasn't anyone to sell them off. you when you do you know allocate your resources disproportionately the you will make these big clearing mistakes ok then this no to notifying it for us and here. it is but that's my point zero point is second point is very very naive for steven and very very dangerous and i you know we all hope there are no more terrorism acts but is very very naive to think this was a one off and it's not likely to happen if you look at the right wing and see it slimy and. rhetoric in europe it is far higher than the u.k. for sure we have countries in the u.k. countries in europe who are banning certain acts of islam so they banned the

minaret they've banned the wearing of all of these things are happening in the u.k. it's not that bad at the moment they go he says it's good to see it now we knew that impinge on people's human rights and what are you talking about a liberal democracy you talk about democracy you can model and even read what i was doing reply that i had stephen replied that's a very good point because you look at saudi arabia which is the center of islam that's where america is all of the religions are banned and yet the western governments germany has still just i don't know me if any sense but only a fairly well let me interrupt you would not be interrupting you stephen. germany has just sold two hundred tanks to. saudi arabia and we've sold jet fighters said dubiously now you can bet your life not one of those tanks will find its way to afghanistan to fight the taliban nor will it will they find their way into iraq to fight al qaida and the taliban. literally her

prefer search perverse forms of islam is not the jewel to wheedle us to be attacked is the last night or do we have a woman's decision to wear a certain type of clothing what on earth you just want to sell it is the right. to have you know you guys are you going towards your salary is a like we're very lucky because i like to ask you let me give you the last word in the program and then the year's biggest where do you think the multiculturalism discussion is going to go now in europe after this horrific event. i think people with common sense will see that we need to be one society with many cultures and we need to be on the front four which is being positive building relationships understanding each other i think the rhetoric of what stephen represents and his organization represents is is the cause of the things that we have just like it is for any religion any ideology extremists you know we need to shun them and we need

to marginalize them and unfortunately stephen represents those kind of views so the way forward is that we are working on our front for bill positive relationship and recognize that we are one society with many cultural case even you will require that before we and wrote. the original terrorists he was the one who coined the phrase which is in the koran which is taught in every mosque throughout the world muslims make war on the co farhood to all around you and you are need say no more he was the original terrorist he was the original not say who cleansed the arabian peninsula of all jews all right gentlemen there was a very heated debate here many thanks to my guest today in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our beat see you next time and remember rascals. if. you can log on to the.

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