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markets finance scandal. why not what's really happening to the global economy with meit's cause there are no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on r.t. . can. follow a welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle the color of terrorism as norway comes to terms with its most horrific attack on its soil since the second world war a plethora of questions demand answers how could this assault be planned and executed under the radar of the authorities and as the west focused too much on

islamic groups instead of homegrown extremists and terrorists. can. start. to cross talk the rise of far right nationalism i'm joined by my guest in london. he is chair of the muslim safety forum and stephen gashly a spokesperson for stop islamization of europe all right gentlemen this is cross talk that means you can jump in anytime you want but first let's see how the oslo attacks may influence political discourse in europe. are you ok the tragedy that struck norway on friday has become yet another grim reminder of the growing threat of far right extremism a problem long since recognized but unresolved in europe with the body count still in progress authorities and politicians in europe are left to re-evaluate the spread of domestic radicalism and possibly overcast the profile of a modern day terrorist i am little sense of grief over such a high death toll as

a result of the bombing of a federal building and are slow and the shooting rampage at a labor party youth camp. will be learnt. but we have. people to the admission of a need to ask hard questions particularly how one man was able to bend such destruction without being stopped we'll want to make sure that we like all those any lessons there are to learn about how to be more secure. like this indeed the lessons need to be learned to identify terrorist threats such as the charge anders behring breivik long before they happen has fifteen hundred word manifesto posted hours before the carnage denounced the government's failure to protect norway from islamic influence nurtured in europe's rowing climate of hatred that comprises a mix of enter immigrant sentiments racism and economic recession brave exposition

mirrors a civilised political debate about multiculturalism across europe. this is not a cultural approach since we simply leave. and i had people to each other is approaches feel onto the field the attacks have been build questions that strike a chord with politicians across the entire political spectrum what does it mean to be european tolerant and open the answers to these questions until very different outcomes the most extreme of which will spoil it out in our slow question but now hans public opinion and policymakers since the nine eleven attacks against the us the western world has focused its attention and resources on what it deems a security threat from these lamas world so will the attacks are now slow carried out meticulously by a right wing christian prompt the worst you could knowledge the new face of a modern day terrorist suspect. it was a channel for class stock. market as i'd like to start with you

in london do you how do you look at this horrific attack in our shows this is extreme extension of the type of rhetoric that we hear from right wing political parties in europe this gentleman before he pulled off this horrific. attack used the language that you can hear it very often across europe about. about immigrants immigration about islam about the koran except for so here's a man that spoke in extreme terms inactive even more extreme yes absolutely and let me add my condolences and heartfelt sorrow for what did take place i mean this barbaric acts of terrorism that took place is an extension of and see muslim islamophobia a trend that is sweeping europe and it is like you mentioned the extreme end of that wedge and unfortunately i think i do agree with

a lot of what your reporter said earlier which is that disproportionate amount of resources and time has been allocated in dealing with one strand of terrorism at the expense of others we have europol and others who have indicated for years way back from two thousand and six that the threat from extremism and acts of terrorism is something real and should be taken seriously ok stephen what do you think about this attack here because again this is norwegian man i mean he was part of a lot of these different groups and repair and european that were very anti immigration and i'm muslim and here's and he step further he stepped way over the line in our so well it's a difference between the rhetoric that we hear across europe and the little bit of the i mean further where you get this kind of attack. well first of all i'd like to join my fellow guest in offering my condolences and commiserations to the families of the victims and also norway itself it's

a complete disgusting act the this man perpetrated you get your question i actually think this man is a one off he's reported as being an anti is limits and but it's notable that the target that he chose was wasn't muslims it wasn't gnostics or anything like that it was indeed the ruling party of norway the rhetoric that he espoused and. a myriad some of the language that he used against islamist at the moment but he is diametrically opposed to stop islamization of europe stack ticks and methods and strategies because we have always been a peaceful organization we've always had demonstrations conferences and i've written articles. and such events are always authorized and okayed by the police the north or it is here we are present organization and this

woman is in my view a one off i live in the north of england and recently we've had i just had made this point because. this is an exception that proves the rule really in the north of england not far from where i live we had a similar event of mass murder and nobody knows what the motivations were for the horrific attacks this man is reported to been and he is the most we have no record of him joining our group at all he was summarily thrown out of the facebook group which is the fleetest contact that he has with us. so if he was found out that he had nazi links or near nazi links he was thrown off because we're fundamentally anti totalitarian as a group we oppose not only is not our meal here or can't put communism or not says ok as i didn't intervene there you want to find out i had it right yeah i mean. i think steven what he says is me he has his half right which is that met the tactics

are different but the rhetoric is the same this man is in his own words he is an anti muslim you know he hates muslims and the reason he chose his government and these young people on a holiday island is because he sees them as the people who failed to protect norwegian society from this influence obviously on in his own eyes and his links to far right extremist organizations like the english defense league is well documented and we had last night the leader of the english defense league actually issued a threat on live on national television saying you know in five years' time you can expect similar attacks in the in the u.k. so the link there is very very strong ideology ideologically they come from the same place yes the tactic this individual decided to take was different however he's not alone he's already told the police but you know this fifteen to eighty people out there who are ready to do what he's done is declaring himself to be

belong to the knights templars you know where we're going back into the history here he's bringing up. rhetoric of the crusades so this man is not acting alone he's not deranged he's not a lunatic he knows exactly what he's doing and he did it in a car collected and very very well organized way how on earth can this guy on the planning there was for years without being detected from the security services or anyone else simply the answer is simply because this proportionate amount of time has been placed on looking at one strand of terrorism at the expense of the other what do you think about that steven because you know we call this blonde on blonde terrorism here because we will talk a little bit later about the disproportional focus on islam in europe when it comes to terrorism which actually i did some research and it's miniscule can compared to other terrorist acts committed by nationalist groups in europe but what about that

i mean you know if you look at the media the first thing you hear was oh it's the islamic attack on europe and then they shifted it ok and then all the sudden it became a fundamentalist i mean even the rhetoric and how we talk about these things is so completely different because of a skin color of a religion and war some people come from in the world. well first of all i'd like to say that the react the immediate reaction shows that. grave it was the exception that proves the rule the automatic assumption was that it was not from terrorism because that is the norm for our present valley's. sir and i dislike the saying sorry. i didn't interrupt you and that i will have my say on the and i'm seriously sure. but basically. i don't believe he has only links at all to any right wing groups and the language i agree with the fellow i

guess the language actually has to change the left wing and right wing far right far left it is meaningless now people are more sophisticated in that we go people from a broad spectrum of political persuasions on our demonstrations are not left wing or not right wing they perceive a threat to their culture and identity and they come out and demonstrate against it . you know this knights templar thing i think it's complete boning i don't believe they exist it's something that historically i'm an english nationalist a fervent english nationalist and i know that of the groups that are involved with english nationalism in this knights templar to me is a complete fabrication so i don't believe it is got any links at all with any english nationalists. the thing i was going to say was i go i do want to jump in there before we go to break my head here and i mean what was stephen fails to recognize and this a problematic is since nine eleven there has been a concerted and well organized orchestrated campaign for neoconservative

islamophobia groups think tanks in patrolling anything that happens in the world as you know is a form of islam is the fall of muslims etc etc that's why you had when this horrific act took place that's why you had experts one after the other coming in and saying things like this has. the whole lot of al qaeda this is an islamist at sais i want to jump in here we're going to go do it or a casual and short break we'll continue our discussion on the oslo tragedy stay with r.t. . egypt. and . wealthy british scientists are. trying to eliminate.

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live. can. well. you know a little too much you were talking about extremism in europe. you can.

ok as i want to go back to you in a comment that you made before we went to the break about how the media and al qaeda it's quite interesting that in the fifteen hundred page manifesto that was left behind it was an enormous amount of admiration actually for al qaeda because of its tactics i mean that has got to be one of the greatest irony is that all this considering that media and many politicians including the united states and simply said this is al qaeda or al qaeda like operation this is this telling us they were missing this is a huge security lapse on the part of western governments because it's their own homegrown people that are committing most of these acts of terrorism. yeah i mean before i answer that if i could finish the point i was trying to make earlier even today you would find mainstream media do not call what took place in wall a a terrorism act they don't report it as a terrorist act you know they call it everything but terrorists acts that's one

thing second thing is like we heard our prime minister you know he doesn't use the word terrorism this man's admiration for terrorism is plain he using his own worst to admire another terrorist organization and here we are denying that this man is had what is committed is anything but and acts of terrorism and i think this rhetoric that the media has you know over over the last ten years been doctorate in moscow what we need to do is we need to work on facts you know if we are solely believing one society many cultures year where we are one society but we allow for many cultures and people to have individual freedoms human rights to do as they please within the boundaries of the law but for us to sustain this and maintain this we have to operate honest and interact with integrity and unfortunately a lot of our commentators politicians and media do not meet those requirements only our understanding here is a fact it is a fact in media that then we went from

a terrorist attack to a lunatic a nutcase i mean christian fundamentalists i mean it should be with the actors no different than a narrative carol that would be nine eleven oklahoma city seven seven in london i mean it's the same thing but it's a fundamentalist and it's a nutcase. well i agree entirely with that such. as the view that anders breivik is every bit as much an enemy of democracy as those who bombed the london buses and tubes and that's not only muslims it also includes irish fascists who found london when i lived back in the eighty's so you know this is a strategy which is a terrorist strategy and please the points be made because i totally agree this wasn't an act of terrorism the thing about how to go back to the point of our. brave and. what was said regarding the fact that

the the leader of the d.l. on the program. british television last night i was invited to speak on our program and i wish to make a point made the point that he was a one off he isn't. it doesn't resemble or is not representative of the groups that are demonstrating or anti islam if you like he's a one off so i don't think there's kind of a any more of these kinds of actions certainly here that we're going to a real story so you will agree this is not just another good year you're just is that doesn't make one point i think what we will see we will see the kind of actions that peter tatchell talk against the church of england synod where he invaded and i think we're going to see maybe mosques surrounded invaded or muslim gatherings being disrupted that may happen so this was a very nice bar and i live i don't believe you know you're not going to see any

can carry on a great. but i mean you were just going to you were just going to say there was a going to be an act of terrorism we have five mosques that has been sent power to wipe out a substance that the police are treating very very seriously we have mosques that are daily vandalize we have muslims that have been killed we have an elderly man who was killed at a bus stop simply because he was a muslim and with the he. used the language of you muslim go back home looks really really very seriously this we have what we have our senior is our squabbling honestly i see more police officers as well and you are saying terrorists were out on the right wing is very very likely ok this is the reality is that it cannot go where it is the. head but i did a freedom of information request the crown process prosecution service about that murder at the bus stop and asked why it wasn't treated as

a racist attack as it was in the first place and the reason was it was it wasn't right wing nationalists as you like to call them who perpetrated that murder it was a group of local youths had nothing to do with any right wing groups or saw and the crown prosecution service actually obfuscated all the requests i made and in the end they said they were going going to give me no information because it. was it was concerned with the case notes and they weren't subjects people like people like the leader of the e.t.l. they admire i mean he was on national television a green with many of the messages out of the fifteen hundred words he only disagreed with one thing which was the terrorist act itself but he agreed with everything else the rhetoric was there and then before he finished he categorically issued a threat saying in five years' time this is going to happen unless you wake up unless you wake up it is that the this is the last thing is i want to say this person is alive and then when he was inishmaan point stephen lewis money for this

passenger appeal is all. the norwegian police there's another to sell them ok he's put in his own manifesto and he's mentioned to the norwegian police already but he's worked with english defense league there are seven million was least good idea that's an important point stephen you can reply that there is going ahead but are i said to serve through newspapers and television but i don't believe that this sort of thing is going to happen again but underlying threat that you've got if we're not listen to you're going to see more terrorist attacks i just think i believe it's a load of rubbish we're not going to see this kind of thing happen in england we're not going to see it happening across europe this man was a one off nobody will ever get to know what his motivations were but i will say this about that i'm pleased that his hearing is being held in secret because we've been trying for years to get to the place of islam in western democracy discussed

and all we've been called a fascist and a phobic race is ok it's all right this is just a just let me go again later so it so this man for forfeited his rights by this but true act of mass murder i don't want to hear is views because he is a murderer he focused even steven he last years you spine theory know his views are he left fifteen hundred pages of mine i thought i could go to you when the police when the police apprehended him they called him by his name they knew who he was. exactly and this is something that i think is very interesting i mean they know the music he was around he knew what his views were but even he bought six tons of fertilizer that's a huge zero dollar. can you imagine someone with a muslim name buying six sun fertilizer there will be a raid immediately and this is the point i was making earlier i wasn't. on you when you do you know allocate your resources disproportionately the you will make

these be clearing mistakes ok then this no to the notifying interest and he bought all. but that's my point is second point is very very naive force the uva and i'm very very dangerous and you know and we all hope there are no more terrorism acts but it is very very naive to think that this was a one off and it's not like it's a happened if you look at the right wing and see if slimy and. rhetoric in europe it is far higher than the u.k. for sure we have countries in the u.k. countries in europe who are banning certain acts of islam so they banned the minaret they've banned the wearing of rail all of these things are happening it's there in the u.k. it's not that bad at the moment they go he says it's good to see it now when you impinge on people's human rights and what are you talking about a liberal democracy you talk about democracy a good model and even was the reply that i had stephen replied that's

a very good point because you look at saudi arabia which is the center of his law and that's where america is all of the religions are banned and yet the western governments germany. i mean it seems as though you know play this game i want to interrupt you i mean i can tell you not to interrupt you stephen. germany has just sold two hundred tanks to. saudi arabia and we've sold jet fighters there g.b. asli now you can bet your life not one of those tanks will find its way to afghanistan to fight the taliban nor will they find their way into iraq to fight al qaida and the taliban they were murdered by yourself can literally her prefer search perverse forms of islam is not a jew to be with us to be attacked is i mean what's that all do we have a woman's decision to wear a certain type of clothing what on earth. this idea of having the right.

to have in the eyes story or even towards your salary is a lie where the only reason i use i'd like to ask you i give you the last word in the program and in the figs i side where do you think the multiculturalism discussion is going to go now in europe after this horrific event. i think people with common sense will see that we need to be one society with many cultures and we need to be on the front four which is being positive building relationships understanding each other i think the rhetoric of what's the even represents and his organization represents is is the cause of the things that we have just like it is for any religion any ideology extremists you know we need to shun them we need to marginalize them and unfortunately stephen represents those kind of views so the way forward is that we are working on our front for bill positive relationship and recognize that we are one society with many culture ok stephen you were a part of our before we and well mohammed was the original terrorists he was the

one who coined the phrase which is in the koran which is taught in every mosque throughout the world and muslims make war on the cover are who all around you and they are need say no more he was the original terrorist he was the original now say who clones the arabian peninsula of all jews all right gentlemen i was a very heated debate here many thanks to my guest today in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember. if you. stick. to the. john berman here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.

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