welcome to the show get the real headlines with none of them or see if you live in washington d.c. now today we'll speak with an experience of the young turks we're going to look at how the debt deal is affecting college students and i asked if that's why no one's protesting on the streets in the u.s. today because they simply can't afford it then is the republican party facing an identity crisis when it comes to foreign policy we're going to take a look at where the twenty twelve candidates stand and look at who's their ear and

they're calling it the biggest record needed cyber attack in history it's been going on for five years it's a fact that over seventy organizations including u.s. government agencies so why are we just finding out about it we're going to all of that and more for you tonight including a dose of happy hour but first let's take a look at what the mainstream media has decided to. you know for a little while there during this entire debt ceiling debacle it seemed like maybe just maybe the mainstream media was going to try to get serious cover the issues that really affect this country unfortunately as we showed you over the past few days even though they covered that very serious topic they also failed at how they did it once again focusing on partisan tit for tat rather than who gets hurt so it looks like they're just giving up they're just going back to their tried and true friend casey anthony i kid you not she's back and they're back on it casey anthony

could be forced out of hiding a judge is demanding that she return to florida today now we move to casey anthony spotted for the first time since she walked out of jail the location ohio and we have breaking news from orlando florida judge stepping down from his case after a few ordered casey anthony to turn herself in take a look at this web page they have all played this is the case she is. the web page and all that it says awaiting the photographs says. yes ladies and gentlemen it's come to this casey anthony is breaking news once more and now we have to live with websites with their pictures of her and other proper rockley of course the rabid nancy grace fans are going to start snapping them up too but here we just leave that to them can we leave that on the web leave it to gossip mags leave it out of the so-called news now that again since the corporate media probably does want to highlight the fact that corporations got off scot free when it comes to closing tax loopholes can only say i'm shocked but remember they're not just corporate they're also according to m s n b c's own president bill griffin the establishment and

nothing could example five that better than their constant regurgitation of every single word that the white house says case in point is making you president obama turns to his jobs agenda now evolving on the bus tour of the midwest president says he's doing a focus on jobs how much of an uphill battle live be for him on the campaign. oh did you hear that the president's going to pivot to focusing on the economy and job creation now my god that is just absolutely incredible that is so wise and wonderful of it let's all just bow our heads and his grace how low people the president's been in office for more than two years now and guess what the economy was already in the toilet when he took office so that's when he should have started focusing on it and actually if you think back to it that's exactly what he promised at that point and he promised it again after the health care debate because you know that got in the way for a while and then he promised it again after the new year government shutdown because well that got in the way for

a while and now he's promising it again after congress just wasted months of our tax dollars going to the disgusting amount of uncertainty all about the possibility of a default on how other things just keep getting in the way of focusing on jobs in the economy and isn't even more odd and embarrassing and ridiculous to every time he come he comes out and uses the jobs rhetoric again the mainstream media treats it like it's the first time they have ever heard those words come from his lips wake up people how about instead of just reporting on what the white house said they're going to do that day to actually report of the things that they haven't done you call them out you don't let them continue to find distractions and you call on them to focus on the economy because guess what the prospects aren't looking so good the markets have continued to take jobs numbers for the month of july are coming out of the end of this week are not supposed to be good predictions are already saying that our growth well not only continue to slow as it has been all of this year it's actually going to be negative next year and part of that is because people don't

have any money to spend consumer spending already fell last month and that of course means that companies will be hiring they're going to keep hiding their profits in overseas bank accounts as well as moving more jobs overseas that means unemployment is not going to fall demand is not going to go up are going to be stuck in this never ending cycle of bad news and gives and you loads which don't worry because the mainstream me. as you can report on those figures for you they just won't ever be able to connect any dots and tell you why it's happening because they've got is decided to have collective amnesia and forget the government isn't actually doing anything about it so they just act excited every time the white house once again analysis they'll be pivoting towards the economy and jobs and that my friends is how they. are to the democrats obviously lost the debt debate and they didn't just lose it for themselves in terms of political points they lost it for social programs for

middle class and poor americans for education and for just about everything else that you can think of the get sacrificed all to keep corporations and wealthy americans from having to pay their fair share and keep special interests happy so what are we to do well last night speaking on the channel video news current t.v. former vice president al gore called for the us to have an american spring to bring democracy back we need to have an american spine you know that. part of it. but we need to have a valid conspiring i founded an american. nonviolent change were people from the grassroots get involved. now of course stop just short of calling for revolution he still seems to believe that the democratic process of voting really gives people a voice but what about the grassroots effort that he is calling for why are we seeing an american spring seeing you young americans take to the streets like we have throughout north africa and the middle east when one reason maybe because they

can't afford it and this recently passed that bill why don't we make in that situation worse joining me from our studio in los angeles to discuss this is an experience host of the young turks university and thanks so much for joining us tonight now since the debt deal has passed of course we've heard and i think rightly so a lot of outcry you could say from progressives keith olbermann call for people to go to the streets now we have al gore telling people that we need an american spring but do you think that that's really possible. i do think it's possible i think that people need to be motivated enough to do so i think people need to believe in themselves and be confident in the fact that an american spring could happen you know going back to the al gore interview i just want to say that he was very careful to say that he does not want a revolution in fact later in the interview he says that people can go to the polls people can go to the internet and those grassroots efforts really make a difference you know i respect him but i do disagree with him on that point and

the reason why i disagree with him is because the thing that undermines our democracy right now is the citizens united ruling right now corporations hold the united states and since they only united states and since they're fattening up pockets of politicians it's nearly impossible for us to exercise their democratic rights so i think that there needs to be a revolution and i'm not calling for violence i'm not calling for a violent revolution but i do think that we need to take to the streets and we do need to be more politically active and hold these politicians accountable if the debt deal is agreed just and it drives me crazy that no one is out as outraged as it out outraged of it as we are let's talk about you know we'll go through some of the reasons as to why people might not be out in the streets right now might because they're not outraged or might be like i said earlier because they simply can't afford it you know earlier on the show this week we spoke to a woman who has been unemployed for three years she's a ninety nine er she advocates on behalf of them but when i asked why you are now protesting she said she doesn't have any money let's face it it takes money if you

want to be a permanent protester if you want to drop everything leave it all behind organize pay for bus tickets maybe get thousands or tens of thousands of people in one area . it is difficult and that's why the tea party movement has been so successful you have the koch brothers who are billionaires funding and basically motivating these people to get together and protest for their political ideology it's very difficult for progressive so do the same thing because we are anti corporations ok we're not anti corporations but we believe that all corporations should pay their fair share of taxes the corporate world doesn't like that so are they going to fund our protests hell no they're not but you know you've got to keep in mind that the people in the arab world are not wealthy individuals you know even though they have limited resources they still found a way to get together and to protest in order to fight for their rights and i think we could do something very similar in the united states and i think that

a lot of americans right now are either complacent or ignorant about what's really going on and we need to change that we need to educate people on what's really going on and how they're being screwed by politicians in washington right now well let's talk about you know i think that a big part of the arab spring too was that there are young people that went out on the streets and maybe young people here just don't have that same opportunity because they're riddled with college debt and this is something that robert levy wrote about too when you look at some of these other countries they still have public universities you still have to pay to go to school whereas here you have a lot of college debt and then the field just even make that worse for graduate students. it absolutely made it worse if you are a graduate student you can no longer expect to get a government subsidized loan that doesn't mean you can't get a government loan it just needs that you can no longer defer the interest on your loan so six months after you graduate as soon as you take out that loan you will have to start paying interest on it immediately ok that is under-reported aspect of

the debt deal that i think people need to be educated on and do i think most graduate students know about what's happening no they don't they should know because if you've taken out the maximum of mounds of government loans you can expect to spend an additional two hundred dollars each month in paying off your loans that's in addition to the principal and you should be upset or upset about that you should be outraged by that but you know a lot of these students have these student loans a lot of them feel helpless a lot of them graduate and are having a difficult time finding a job and it's hard for them to see outside of their own personal situation so a lot of them don't get discouraged from spending their you know very limited time and resources in going out there and exercising their democratic rights or could also be that there's an element of fear involved here too this is another one of the things the robber levine mentioned is that not only do we live in a society these days where we are constantly under some sort of surveillance and

you can always be monitored or attached to your cell phone where anybody can figure out where you were at any given time but we also have a prison system. i guess you could say a criminal justice system that really does like to lock people out of people scared to go out and protest. absolutely the surveillance is one aspect of it the private prisons i mean it's big business in america private prisons make so much money off getting people in jail so that's one of the things that is definitely discouraging people from being politically active but look a revolution is not something that simple if revolutions were simple we wouldn't have this discussion at all you know we wouldn't have any problems in our political spectrum we have huge problems because the establishment the elites the people who are corporatists they find ways to intimidate the public they find ways to keep the public down and we need to fight against that that might mean that we're risking imprisonment that might mean that we're risking a lot but i think that overall it's worth it in the end and right now our country is really going down the tubes and i don't see anyone really fighting to stop that

from happening do you think that there would be a way let's say the revolution did happen here in the u.s. i want to know how you would envision that do you think that americans are unified and after we have you know one common enemy is they can get people to go out onto the streets like you could say we saw in egypt of wanting mubarak to step down or you know are we just too divided and nobody would ever go organize on a large scale. here's one thing or one aspect of america that everyone is unhappy with president obama progressives are happy with him republicans are unhappy with him i guess that's one thing that we can all agree on i mean we all dislike him for certain for a completely different reasons i dislike is a hard word but we're unhappy with him for a completely different reasons but we don't like the way that he is handling washington right now he's completely abandoned his base he keeps talking about how he wants to be bipartisan and he wants to make the republicans happy the republicans are still unhappy they still go to the mainstream media and bash the

hell out of him ok but one thing that i think that we can also all agree on is that people need to pay their fair share of taxes i think that you know the top one percent might disagree with that but the majority of the public wants the corporations to you know stop with the tax loopholes pay their fair share of taxes and stop defunding the united states which is what basically happens for a very long time now so i think that if people were educated on what's really going on if people knew why all of these social programs are getting cut they would take to the streets but in order for that to happen in order for them to be educated we need to depend on independent media and we need to we need to depend on shows that are not afraid of sharing the truth the segment that you did right before my interview was incredible you know and that's the truth that's something that a lot of people in the mainstream are afraid to tell people it's just that people need to know in order to get motivated to take to the streets all right well thank

you for the compliment first of all but thank you so much for joining us tonight and we'll see if people finally can get educated enough to motivate a than to really come together. thank you. now still ahead tonight a very very small victory for the a.c.l.u. in their battle with the cia over torture takes this big three says a lot about the beautiful system right here in the u.s. and then is the g.o.p. a little confused about what their foreign policy should be over the twenty four presidential candidates the same old war hawks are going to dive into that topic in just a moment. but you know sometimes you see a story and the scene so foolishly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else here's you some of the part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm sorry look at the big picture.

and yet though. we are right.

well. we never said there were safe brad. friedel. so sad reality in the us of the cia is simply allowed to ignore the law when it doesn't fit their agenda and that's exactly what happened when a.c.l.u. took their case against the us intelligence agency to new york that court back in november we first told you about the disgusting practice for the cia destroyed video evidence of operatives allegedly torturing or captives ninety two tapes that showed intelligence officials torturing terrorism suspects of those who body a and

harry were wiped out as well as records of torture flights now keep in mind this all happened way back in two thousand and five and it wasn't until two thousand and seven when it was a real to the public by then cia director michael hayden. however this was also around the same time torture abu ghraib occurred and was starting to get a lot of negative media attention for the agency so it makes sense that they would prefer to just destroy the incriminating evidence of their practices rather than have to suffer the consequences of their actions and we discussed the destruction of the evidence with senior a.c.l.u. member christopher anders he mentioned that nobody of any real significance has been held accountable for what is likely to unfortunately since i will agree this is the only criminally liable are people at the very bottom soldiers soldiers and sailors who were privates and corporals sergeants. and so the a.c.l.u. took the cia to civil court produced drawing the evidence of illegal torture and

it's been a long hard battle since that and sounding words learned today and not much is going to come out of all of this the judge in this case ordered the cia to reimburse the a.c.l.u. for their legal fees the response when attempting to obtain the evidence of that torture under the bush administration and some are calling that a victory but i hardly see it that way first of all how effective this had to be a civil court case from the start the judicial system knew that they weren't going to actually hold anybody like jose rodriguez responsible for illegally torturing people it was all a smoke and mirrors move to say ok maybe we screwed up but for the sake of national security we still can't bring these people to justice and the judge was even quoted the saying bottom line we're in a dangerous world we need our spies we also need surveillance and if that's not the thinking where the real problem lies in all this of these high level officials bypassed international law approved the use of torture and then destroy the evidence successfully because we're afraid if the tires were afraid that we should be clinging to the law and not throwing it away in this case is just another

reminder that some people really are above the law in this country and frankly it's a sad day when private organizations have to go to such means to pursue holding government officials accountable for flouting the law because the justice department simply doesn't feel like getting their hands dirty with it. now safe to assume that the economy is going to be the top issue for the twenty twelve presidential race especially if as predicted unemployment doesn't fall growth becomes negative and even the start as deniers of a double dip can no longer argue that case let's not forget of course that we are involved in two official wars in iraq and afghanistan one war that the administration refuses to call a war in libya and shadow wars of which we only hear whispers every time a drone strike kills and pakistan yemen and somalia and let's also not forget that the middle east and north africa are rapidly changing following the arab spring so foreign policy isn't exactly going to fall by the wayside but what is the g.o.p.'s

foreign policy some like eli lake posit that it's all over the map a party in confusion a crisis implosion on foreign affairs and we bring troops home or do we keep them there do we tighten the belt on to france or add another notch and perhaps the most divisive issue do they hate and fear all muslims or just the radical ones so let's take a look at where the trying is going so far who is advising the contenders and whether the party in is in the vision if that even holds true he wanted me to discuss this is james fallows host of the bottom line and reform school on page eighty the james thanks for joining us tonight so i want to get your opinion as to whether you really think that the g.o.p. is having some type of an identity crisis here when it comes to foreign policy or whether it's just you know the same old war hawks with the exception of ron paul and gary johnson who let's face it have always been the exceptions. but i think this is still there is not going to go anywhere there are the exceptions of course they're calling it increasingly belittling i think the folks are a little more willing to listen this time war less popular option is still there

there's a there's an interest in doing this in a more economically smart and efficient way i think there's a chance to get involved in more overseas operations and look at the debt deal that passed a lot of people unhappy with it it's an astonishing i think to see right now. from what you get billions of dollars in defense cuts this is something that would not have happened before the tea party came into power this is not something that happened during the bush years or more so we're seeing i think a reassessment that is continuing and i think it's going to be productive there are some there's some friction of course but i don't think this is where the g.o.p. is in danger. but none of the candidates aside from ron paul and gary johnson of actually advocated for defense cuts quite the opposite we've heard many of them chide the administration and congress for even trying to go down that path. well that's true you know look this is presidential politics this primary season the easy thing to do the safe thing to do politically smart thing to do if you're a presidential candidate in can primary season on the republican side is to say you

know they made a good effort if they feel everyone wants a solution but personally i can support this so you get mitt romney saying that he would support it you can show bachmann saying that he would support it there's a lot in there to complain about no matter where you're coming from but i think when it comes to defense spending it's it's tea partiers who are willing to calmly compromise on hacking away at the defense bureaucracy tea partiers who are willing to tax expenditures there's a willingness to to reassess how it is that conservatives govern that i don't think you necessarily would tip in their absence of but if we talk about specific candidates out there let's face it michele bachmann is considering herself in primetime party candidate he's now pushed herman cain out of the way he has support from cuts i don't understand how he can be a tea partier and be all about fiscal austerity and then also still basically be following him john mccain's part that's. well because the tea party isn't like an ordinary political party it's there's there's no there's like the rest of them aren't there but you know look you've got ron paul is just as much of

a tea party figurehead sort of as michele bachmann you've got you've got to be using the tea party you got constructive disagreement there as much as you do on the right or on the left where you know of course democrats are under some intense pressure to figure out how they're going to square the circle when it comes to playing out the rest of this obama term here and how they're going to go forward when it comes to discretionary spending versus and one spending and. one of the things that really interests me here and this is one of the issues that you like also brought up when it comes to and you said you don't think there and clothing by any means but there might be some kind of a decision here or excuse me a division here when it comes to the party as to whether to decide that they still believe that muslim nations can be democratized and go the george w. bush route or you have people like michele bachmann and paul anthony who was hopping on the bandwagon now of this thinking that all muslims are evil because islam in and of itself is not a moderate religion by any means that we need to fear sharia law at all times of creeping into america well of course there's

a huge difference between saying we should be afraid of a radicalized group of people and therefore they're evil and the game is saying they're evil i think they're saying look the middle east is going through a nasty period of transition right now violence across the region it's going on in syria it's happening in egypt it's going all over the place this is something that we ought to be concerned about as a matter of national security i think i'm pretty safe ground there but look when it comes to tensions in the g.o.p. when it. i think that we may have that back. partly i think we lost you for a second pair but you know let me just interrupt for a second still though i mean one of the people that you could say is a big figurehead or some of the has the ear of many of the g.o.p. this would be frank gaffney who if you ask me is absolutely crazy the guy's a loon but he is very much in the all muslims are evil i don't understand how people can still take this guy seriously ok break it down like this there are some

people who are were concerned that islam as such is just not compatible with american democracy. or people you know have some percent themselves down and studied over and done their homework and then come to conclude you know islam is incompatible front and he was american in a similar circle who can see the same process they've come to different i point is this is a disagreement this is one disagreement it's not you know to be a woman i think people get. they want to solve this issue it's going to involve some some talking it out and again if you're going to twenty it's all a lot of these things where you know right now it's kind of look in the air and there's not to talk some of the stuff through the card is going to talk with one presidential candidate and that candidate like it or not he's going to be the figurehead for the for today's g.o.p. it should g.o.p. that's presenting a current contemporary alternative you're going to have to make some decisions there's party was wondering how much talking about is there actually going to be on the campaign trail as we get closer to twenty twelve do you think we're going to

start seeing these candidates actually criticizing each other calling them out on some of these differences as to whether you think that islam and democracy are compatible or not or are they just going to go the easy route and just you know go fully forward just criticizing obama and saying he did everything wrong he hates israel he likes russia and china too much and that's the way it is. well i think you're going to get i think you're going to get both it's inevitable that as the primary season heats up the candidates are going to start having to take some whacks to each other and in some cases might have to reassess their own positions you saw this new term and cheney came out very strongly against against the. problem against. muslims has to make you know actually he had to walk a lot of those things back and it wasn't just the vertical so we have a problem isn't a natural problem in america let's be clear that's why you had to walk it back there is not a real problem here and i think the reason why he had to walk it back is because he was getting pushback from within his own constituency the tea partiers look at syria's you're saying hey wait

a minute let's go back to you know let's go back to the constitution let's go back to the road let's emphasize here that there is freedom of religion america and that east to be green as we as i said mr. know that for herman cain he is also the one that thinks that it's probably within the constitution for communities to be able to ban mosques things like i think that he's going to have a lot of reading up to do in that case but is there anyone that you see as being the most hawkish the most john mccain at this point. well you know i don't know if i'd call if i'd said that hawks ought to be thought of as being synonymous with john mccain. you might recall had the reputation going to the last presidential election and not just being a hawk but it being someone who was a little bit erratic someone who wouldn't apply hawkishness in a reasonable and most follicle and what calculating manage and i think that's the kind of rub that is kind of the albatross that barack obama is now dragging around his own neck republicans right now they're still going to be fox they're going to

continue to be in their first foreign policy where they need a little more real story a little more idealist but what i think what the party wants right now and here's a place where the establishment and the insurgents and the republican party to agree is they want someone who's going to be able to be as a president but do so. careful and discriminating way and when you look at the way you are rocking on his hands i got to ask his are learning as time sorry i got up at you when you're going to teach history i want to share as we're at a time when i had a break they've that are taken we're joining us but i think that we probably have different opinions as to what is a careful and calculating way now still ahead of a response from your comments left on line it's nice of you said i read a segment cameron to talk about operation escape the wrath airport vanity fair details the largest cyber attack includes three police just down doubt about the level targeting it's not. into it all right.