but can they learn to show that the real headlines with none of the mersey are going to live in washington d.c. so i'm going to speak with matt welch from reason and ask how you choose whose ideas are polite and whose are considered crazy then why does grover norquist get so much attention and maybe people like ron paul don't they're going to speak with david house on the d.o.j. his defense or confiscating his laptop at the border and about the government's desperate attempts to fill the ranks of more hackers and finally jim garvin is angry with washington so he decided to post a video online it's become

a sensation we're going to speak to the man to get an average americans take on what is happening in this country you have all that and more for a tonight including a dose of happy hour but first let's take a look at what the mainstream media has decided to miss. parts of today the stock market crash the dow jones well more than five hundred points it was the biggest single day drop since two thousand and eight we're going to get to that admitted but this morning i believe the mainstream media was really bored now like there are enough issues to talk about when you think of unemployment the economy as a whole the wars that were in our massive prison population the continuous brutality of the police hate towards the muslim community you know if there's something that you really want to spend a good seven or eight minutes discussing on the news which unfortunately t.v. time is a really long time i think it's safe to say that there is plenty of material out there c.n.n. well they chose something else this morning ok in less than four hours tiger woods

tees off for the first time in three months we love to talk tiger so what do you think mike ok is the bridge an invitational begins today i've got to talk about his caddie like you said re new level. fantastic for the game of golf the p.g.a. obviously is very pleased that he is back here. i don't get me wrong first sports fans out there tiger's return is a big deal that's great but when e.s.p.n. or the golf channel covered them will you i don't know spend eight min. on tiger when there really is nothing else to talk about news wise but this was not one of those days i just want to do a little game of compare and contrast so you saw the extensive tiger woods coverage on c.n.n. today so let's go over it and s n b c where they mention something that is at least news and is a very telling factor of where this country stands but i should say that extensive it's not the word there you describe it new numbers show just how hard merican are being hit by this tough economy there are more people in the u.s.

for lying on food stamps than ever before the hardest hit state alabama which saw one hundred twenty percent surge in food stamp use. what was that you said about food stamps andrea that's a big deal and you spent thirty seconds glazing over it with a straight face just just like any other day i mean i think i'm actually at a loss for words just kidding you guys know me if anything my problem is that i talk way too much but this is exactly what i've been talking about all week when the media obsesses over the debt ceiling debate and who on capitol hill said what i want the media obsesses over what the president announced yesterday that for the give illions time he's going to be refocusing on jobs but there's never any follow up there's never any why is this happening what does it say about the america that we're living in today do you need any more proof that our economy is in the gutter we're in a double dip of the middle class is dying that americans are struggling and can't put food on the table more americans are on food stamps than ever before that needs

to be talked about and you talk about those americans who are struggling you need to question our system not just mention the statistic that thirty seconds and then move right along need a little more food for thought when it comes to comparing coverage without jones as i mentioned plummeted today closing below five hundred points that's the lowest it's close since two thousand and eight and one day and it's a sure sign that investors are uncertain in fact they're scared they're fleeing because the economy doesn't have a very good outlook right now and you can bet that it's not going to get much better tomorrow when dismal jobs numbers are. released but see the stock market it's exciting it moves fast those numbers are so sexy so every single cable channel spends at least thirty minutes today focusing on just that the stock market now they shouldn't do it but stock market dropping that's temporary more americans than ever before in food stamps that doesn't pass in a pleading sakit it's hopefully not permanent but it's definitely not going to change overnight especially if the government doesn't focus on job growth in the economy and companies continue to layoff or simply not hire and keep

a lot of their money abroad so sorry all of you americans that can't afford food anymore you're just not sexy enough for t.v. your misery just doesn't move quite fast enough for the mainstream cable news and we've been speaking to struggling americans on this show and will continue to do so will continue to ask why it's happening all the mainstream media is content to miss . i think it's pretty obvious that there's a fair amount of blame to lay on the mainstream media when it comes to misinform now in reporting of what that deals in the cuts in the lack of types increases really mean they help shape the debate by focusing on partisan bickering allowing politicians also skip on having to answer any questions about the real life impacts of their actions then let's look at it from a different perspective q how do they shape the debate when it comes to giving certain individuals more air time than others does it have anything to do with what the individuals arguments or logic are already does have to have a t.v.

friendly face and you get a platform and no matter how crazy you may be now let's say that grover norquist then crazy or not whatever you think could be a good example here and recent weeks he's grace the television screens appearing on every single cable news network his stance and pledge of no new taxes no matter lives what exactly we would call middle of the road and he apparently carried an incredible amount of influence over the republican party and the media so why grover why not somebody else. because it's got to me is that welsh editor in chief of reason magazine and co-author of the book the declaration of independence how libertarian politics can fix what's wrong with america thanks so much for being here today. we're going to get into grover himself as an individual in just a moment here but i mean how much do you think the media really allows debates to be formed all by choosing who it is that they put on t.v. to represent either side. groover aside i think there's

a kind of in between the thirty five yard line to take a football metaphor since you like golf so much. things that are a excepted there by the sort of journalistic political class as the status quo regardless of whether the status quo is itself insane there's long as it's in there than it's normal to talk about it people who insist on bringing up topics that are over here or over here they're doing it kind of a loud voice they are treated as pathological in some way or just kind of strange even if those issues that they're bringing up or ones that a lot of americans think is correct or they just are righteous in their own view and so by reinforcing who gets to be in there and who talks about that and also by calling those who are on the outside of those issues as kind of crazy and sort of winking and nodding whenever you bring them up that reinforces this kind of you luckily there's so much more alternative media now that we can kind of root around that system but the bias of these sort of status quo bias is extraordinary also what i mean when you're talking about what the status quo is what what crazy ideas

are considered to be part of the norm or the polite politics as well i mean let's take it straight out of the headlines we have grown the size of government from one point eight trillion dollars federal government in two thousand to basically three point eight trillion dollars now the status quo is that it just kind of keeps going up keeps going up and that is viewed as normal but if you're an extremist you're a you're a lunatic you're a you're a terrorist as a lot of people have been saying this can be a very i want to get started no but i you know i'm not you know i'm not whining about it but i'm talking about from the perspective of people who are invested in the status quo people who are totally strange if they just say stop this if they point out if they talk about how that's something that we should continue to do and so you know is it working both ways and at the same time if you. if you want health insurance to help pay for birth control for women or at least you know you want the government to mandate that then suddenly that makes you a socialist too i mean the same types of words are thrown around and i. they're side of the debate no better no matter what side you're in and all of that i think

is within this mainstream discussion that's going on i think that actually you know single payer health care was used when you bomb a care thing as a term that that helped get rid of that as a notion even the idea of having a kind of safety net for the least well off was tossed aside kind of early on in the notion of obamacare because people were allergic to that kind of socialist label that way so yeah it happens on on every side we have to always be mindful of that when we hear people talk about things we just look at any issue that works very badly you talk a lot in your show about the drug war and how many people are locked up this is a bipartisan thing that no one really believes in it with their own kind of private personal passion but there's incentives that keep things the way they are and if you bring it up in a mainstream setting people sort of freak out. just looked at what do you have talked about this a lot to the right is that we thought there maybe there was some type of sweeping change that was starting to come to light because ron paul for example who has been saying the same thing for decades and for a long time

a lot of people didn't pay attention especially not the mainstream media then suddenly he became a media star again when the presidential contenders started lining up and we have the debates and you and i have spoken about this is why is libertarianism even becoming mainstream but i don't see it ron paul on the t.v. screens lately have you and i have they labeled him back to crazy to go back there i think to go to grover norquist and he doesn't have an army in his humps necessarily just a mix of metaphor he's out there talking about he's much more talking about the debt ceiling deal than all the other republican candidates probably combined because they're all scared to talk about it he's not taking grover or. grover has a whip hand on so many different congressional candidates that's why he's out there why is that why is the roads are newer and who is all powerful i just don't understand this guy is not an elected official and somehow he has all but thirteen republican signed on to this pledge some even say as alan simpson going to show you a clip actually last night on lawrence o'donnell said that this guy's seems like it's more powerful than the president to suspicious to take

a look at that. you want to dig a hole where does he get his money where does it come from how much was he made how many people you've got on the payroll what does he do horses you get his money who is he slave to somewhere that needs to come out very soon. and i'm here is killing kind of things that on the gruber is probably the most effective single issue campaigner we've talked about in our book how single issue campaigns are the future hopefully the ones that we agree with more than you know don't get rid of ethanol subsidies which grover has put it is don't draw the line in the sand he had a very effective single idea and he was able to convince a lot of republicans that they would suffer for it but the interesting thing is that they're suffering less for it that's the party is not an anti-tax movement it's an anti spending movement grover has never been an anti spending republican i talked to him in two thousand and four interviewed him said what's your biggest fear over the next four years of bush you know he said that people are going to talk about the deficit why because people talk about the deficit then they're going

to want to raise taxes and he's single issue is taxes but the thing is if you look at a lot of polls right now right americans are frustrated americans don't really care about the deficit they're worried about the economy they're worried about not having any jobs and you know americans are not anti taxes from what it seems either if you look at this polling because they're frustrated their theory is that the bush tax cuts were extended especially for the wealthiest americans and that corporations are getting away with paying absolutely zero income tax and we're talking about some of the biggest companies in the world g.e. bank of america exxon valero you know that's a bipartisan issue and it's and it's a world partly of grover's creating by saying no new taxes ever no tax rates you invite people to game to monkey the tax code that's going to be the biggest players the g.e.'s who are going to say let's attract that it's crazy idea what grover norquist is on t.v. pushing and he's on every single channel as if it's normal and has all the power because he does have power is what i'm saying and that's it makes sense you want to know where he stands on this because he still scares the hell out of

a lot of republicans but few. voters scared very publicans are should they be worried about what the american people are going to say rather than grover norquist absolutely but the this happens on the democrat side as well there are various pledges that you're supposed to take in order to be a good democrat there's a new line in the sand of don't ever touch entitlements and if you ever say that you're going to think about it we're going to punish you on that and that stuff that's is interest group politics president obama obviously didn't sign that pledge really quick rate is what i ask because this was you know news that happened right before the show started two of the stock market closed five hundred points today tomorrow is probably not going to be much better when you have bad jobs numbers coming out what does that tell you is that a sure sign that nobody has faith in the economy anymore a think it's i think i think one analysis of the stock market is a game or a fool's game look at it the ten year look at decades worth of stock market were flat with some white spikes some bubbles thrown in back tells us something that we have not been creating jobs for the last decade it wasn't didn't start with obama certainly while we're increasing more and more government expenditure in the

economy totally in the crapper so that's a lot more to me than a single day ok commies in the crapper. thanks so much for joining us and stick around for happy hours we'll have you back the rest. are coming out the lawsuit filed against the u.s. government over an f.b.i. informant posing as a muslim in a california mosque. and wait until you hear why then he's suing the federal government after being searched and having items seized while entering the u.s. david house for a turn for the show tonight update us on his lawsuit have to be ok by your response . you should only. google would bring justice and accountability. i have every right to know what my government's doing you want to know why i pay taxes. but i would characterize obama as a charismatic sort. of american. the lives of. you

know sometimes you see a story and it seems so full of sleep you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else here's some other part of it and realize that everything is ok if you don't i'm trying hard look at the big picture. let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime in britain. i think. either one well. we never got the book says they're very safe get ready for freedom.

for. fight. back in march our team is among the lindo first told us how group of muslims in southern california are making a case against the f.b.i. after word got out that an agent was conducting that warrantless surveillance

operations in those mosques the members of the mosque are worried that the f.b.i. would split their tightly knit muslim community and they fear that problem last goers would start turning against each other because of an undercover f.b.i. agent asking suspicious questions about its long. i'm fearful that if. my wife fears it my family fears. it's going to come down pretty close. and craig monte always an informant for the f.b.i. posing as a muslim i want to start inquiring about radical jihad members of the community actually reported him back over to the f.b.i. they quickly learned of montreal's real motives and so now they're suing the f.b.i. for the warrantless surveillance but sadly it's like this lawsuit against the f.b.i. is never going to really reach a court attorney general eric holder filed papers this monday to dismiss the case and want to know why take a wild guess because it could reveal state secrets and a declaration holder wrote discloser of the reasons for and substance of

a counterterrorism investigation could reasonably be expected to cause harm to national security such disclosures that are below subjects who are involved in or are planning to undertake terrorist activities what the f.b.i. knows and does not know about their plans and the threat they pose to national security. of course anytime anybody in the muslim community actually tries to hold the us government accountable but it's state secrets time and speaking of the muslim population in the u.s. team obama launched a new initiative to prevent radicalization on wednesday white house officials sends out a warning that casting suspicion on the muslim american community could backfire and promote string that they also promise to share educational materials about as long to law enforcement officers and offer guidelines on how to treat muslim americans as allies to the government wow perhaps the president should start of the latest campaign or write down the street right over the f.b.i. here in d.c. i'm sorry but it's a little bit contradictory to act like you're trying to be chummy with the muslim

community all of the feds are infiltrating those communities who are radical jihad information and say what else find it odd that the white house launched this campaign on the exact same week the eric holder invoked that state secrets privilege towards a muslim lawsuit from the muslim community my people and some people but me perhaps a little better planning can hide your real intentions look please don't say one thing and then do another just makes you look foolish mr president. looks like the justice department finally has a response pretty white house reporter to you on this show in the past as well as spoken with house about this case he's the founding member of the bradley manning support network and a little help from the a.c.l.u. of massachusetts a lawsuit was filed after house was detained at chicago o'hare's international airport he was questioned for an extended period of time he had laptop a thumb drive and a digital camera confiscated and the a.c.l.u. says that houses constitutional rights to free speech and association were violated but he was targeted solely for his association with the bradley manning support

network and the d.o.j. is due speeding that charge in court with documents saying the government is not prohibited from examining any items at the border simply because they may be related to the work of an organization now another element in it that it took ice immigration excuse me which is immigration and customs. horsman forty nine days to return that equipment to house for the court files and expense for that one too they said that the lack of password access required eyes computer experts to spend additional time on this warehouse of laptop because it was running both linus and windows on his computer and made the task more difficult so it makes you wonder if v.h.s. might need some better computer forensics experts so joining me to give a response tonight is david house the founding member of the bradley manning support network david i want to thank you for joining us tonight now we can break this into a few different elements here but first starters i just read that quote and the official response in the court documents from the justice department that really

there's nothing they can prevent from looking at your documents or looking at your laptop because of your association with an organization when you think about that. it's a very interesting stance it's important to know in this case there's not really any looks lisa backing up the government's decision here but this is kind of a clean story people are ready to search through here is a border you've already to choose between if you're going across the border so it's also the claim that they have this authority. legislation or case law backing it up which even more bizarre is nice to see in the return because they returned the reason they wanted to keep my computer or keep the data from my computer and was for purposes of but occasion it was on the way which is interesting because it makes you wonder because u.s. government going to use this information seized an order for evidence and a court of law and what does it mean when the u.s. government can wait for citizens across the border in

a city to get warrants just to see if you can establish so recent lot of very top must be four questions and the seal you know fighting corruption so have they made it clear though as to whether they are they want to keep that information for litigation specifically regarding your case and the a.c.l.u. or that my house and they did here with bradley manning on the grand jury in virginia no details. it's very unclear it's very nebulous and whenever we actually try to push them to give us information we've got no car so the documents that were turned recently were the only response of substance we've got back as an example my lawyers at the a.c.l.u. recently tried to obtain information and information the f.b.i. could be h.s. and c.p.p. they had about my travels and what was returned was a notice that three hundred forty three pages of documents relating to the travel records had been completely redacted and were not available because it was so something certainly going on here and one must really wonder what they're doing up

there is just part of a larger targeting attackers a computer scientist in general as we see but also with the air force base in cambridge or is this them targeted because we're at this point it looks pretty unsure but what is definite is that the u.s. government is scared right now if computer scientists and they will stop at nothing to make policy so that in crackdown these computer scientists and others as they travel abroad well since you brought up parents who are it seems been had passed here on our cell numerous times as well do you think that's a concerted effort to scare people to you intimidates on a larger scale than just go after airing himself. that's definitely the sense here in boston i mean for those who don't know eric schwartz was the gentleman with the city. who allegedly downloaded academic documents from the mit you know word and as the story goes it might not want to press any charges they were pretty much going with this according to public statements but they do you jay stepped in and said we want to prosecute scott on them shorts in boston is kind of you know the symbol of

people charity he's an individual who. in the past has been very outspoken for open source initiatives so it's possible the u.s. government here is just kind of trying to really try to mix you are supporting intellectual do service groups like anonymous and we selves are going out looking at you know our it's a very tough time here and a bridge that everyone is a little free tell now you also mentioned and we're going to get into this in further detail that it seems like the government is a little scared right now when it comes to the hacker community but also asked about that second detail that i mentioned regarding their reasoning for holding their equipment for forty nine days they said that they didn't have the password so that made it more difficult and because you're running to operating systems on your computer is that i don't know these things you have to honestly tell me is that a really hard thing to crack should their computer experts be able to get a little faster solution to things or we should examine the first is the claim that they had all my computer for forty nine days because if you're operating systems

for the uninitiated the linux operating system is actually a very simple operating system much like windows or zero a service you could freely downloadable and it's mostly used by programmers and it in the city to the very stripped down open source operating system it's surprising to me that he just would actually come out and saying we don't how do we first got sports keep working with this over us as isn't cities using government agencies if you put the n.s.a. through some things if you can i can see the process so there's a bode very well with u.s. government terms if we are hiring right now if you don't have experts people that's going to be talking since the edition to that the second. the password is actually very interesting well in the papers returned the u.s. government is saying that because i did not buy my password that itself may be in a legal options and again they don't actually cite me he saw any legislation oh evil and all it's so easy all you do is to retreat in the suspect as well why is it u.s. government now is when you write your password to your if you're in the sheen when

you cross the border if i were c.e.o.'s were going to say should if i were journalists who are human rights activists i'd be very worried right now i imagine makes you wonder who the government is exactly hiring and do you think a paralegal desperate for hires right now i mean we know that d.d. agents the t.h.s. agents say that nasa they're all descending upon las vegas right now where def con is going on trying to recruit new hackers but do you think there is a more of a mad rush than we might have ever seen before it's very possible although i don't know if you're getting a lot of talent so i mean there's the sense that the same bostom if you are a computer scientist that is very skilled but if you're an individual who actually has been in purina or understood kind of work computer science and interest in the world in this kind of power shift direction why would you waste your time working for the government why would you put yourself on the phone of an organization that was going to control you with your talents so the real talent here is not going to

the real talent here going abroad they will tell if you're so p.c. or human rights organizations were released but look it's so it is very interesting to see who they're trying to hire and i think the u.s. government is desperate to try to keep up with the time a pool that's why there's any better way to do right now to have heard so that it's had to recruit a hacker is actually increasing accountability that i'm just curious to know in the past have the government ever approached you. appreciated her so well. there was that incident as in trying to get you to work for them i mean by that i mean they wanted me to be an informant last year which is creature to go on i want to even start was going down they wanted everyone to speak for them but in terms of actually trying to be the higher absolutely not like it's a real tell what worked for us government to be important things we're working on but i just wonder you know from an economic standpoint do you think they're the real talents might be swayed in a different direction because you know as you mentioned there are human rights

organizations you might go abroad that the economy isn't exactly in good shape and the n.s.a. for example this year this fiscal year which ends in september they're going to be hiring fifteen hundred new people next year they plan on hiring fifteen hundred people so i don't know how well the government pays but it seems like it might be tempting for some people with the incentives are there if you are someone if you are someone who seems really you all do your job i can imagine that this must be something offered from the federal government that's nice people you can feel like you're helping us. but i would say if you can you find a really talented are the ones that really understand where those things go away we're going to really grasp the political connotations of a nice and open a permission not on ourselves but i think these people the ones who are rather seduction to work with the government because you people are a part of this higher government going to have a very hard time keeping up. really quickly do you have any updates on bradley manning for us. i do not i've been trying to see him for six months now or get

a look at a road or anything and there's a new communications friends in boston i've written letters he got up and so everyone's a little bit worried trying to figure out what are you going to pay or not we really wish the attorney or something that would give us information the most trying to be going to boston right now i have it i thank you very much for joining very much for joining us and filling us in on on all of that broad scope of topics but definitely seems to be where everything is heading these days in terms of hacking on the government's response to thanks so much was a poser. well thursday edition of show and tell us coming up next and then how do average americans feel about washington and their inaction on the economy may we get a more personal view of the man who is becoming one to pick them up. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so sleep you think you understand it and then you.