the and. but in the show with real headlines with none of the mersey going to live in washington d.c. tonight we're going to speak with matt welch for a reason and ask how we choose whose ideas are polite and whose are considered crazy and then why does grover norquist get so much attention and maybe people like ron paul don't they read a secret david house on the d.o.j. defense for confiscating his laptop at the border and about the government's desperate attempts to fill the ranks of more hackers and finally jim garvin is angry with washington so he decided to post a video online and it's become

a sensation we're going to speak to the man to get an average americans take on what is happening in this country going to have all that and more for you tonight including a dose of happy hour but first sake a look at what the mainstream media has decided to miss. today the stock market crash the dow jones fell more than five hundred points it was the biggest single day drop since two thousand and eight we're going to get to that admitted but this morning early mainstream media was really gort like there are no issues to talk about when you think of unemployment the economy as a whole the wars that we're in our massive prison population the continuous brutality of the police hate towards the muslim community you know if there's something that you really want to spend a good seven or eight minutes discussing on the news which unfortunately t.v. time is a really long time i think it's safe to say that there is plenty of material out there c.n.n. well they chose something else this morning ok in less than four hours tiger woods

tees off for the first time in three months we love to talk tiger so what do you think mike ok is the bridge an invitational begins today i've got to talk about his caddie like you said rain you love him or hate him fantastic for the game of golf the p.g.a. obviously is very pleased that he is back here. now don't get me wrong for sports fans out there tiger's return is a big deal that's great but let e.s.p.n. or the golf channel cover them well you know spend eight min. on tiger when there really is nothing else to talk about news wise but this was not one of those days i just want to do a little game of compare and contrast so you saw the extensive tiger woods coverage on c.n.n. today so let's go over it and somebody see where they mention something that is at least news and this is very telling factor of where this country stands but let's just say that extensive it's not the word that i do to describe it you numbers show just how hard merican are being hit by this tough economy there are more people in

the u.s. for lying on food stamps than ever before the hardest hit state alabama which saw one hundred twenty percent surge in food stamp use of. what was it you said of food stamps andrea that's a big deal and you spent thirty seconds glazing over it with a straight face that just like any other day i mean i think i'm actually at a loss for words no just kidding you guys know me if you think my problem is that way too much but this is exactly what i've been talking about all week when the media obsesses over the debt ceiling debate and who on capitol hill said what and when the media obsesses over what the president announced yesterday that pretty good zillionth time he's going to be refocusing on jobs but there's never any allah there's never any why is this happening what does it say about the america that we're living in today the need any more proof that our economy is in the gutter we're in a double dip of the middle class is dying that americans are struggling and can't even put food on the table more americans are on food stamps than ever before and

it's to be talked about the talk about those americans who are struggling you need to question our system not just mention a statistic for thirty seconds and then move right along case you need a little more food for thought when it comes to comparing coverage now jones as i mentioned plummeted today closing below five hundred points that's the lowest it's close since two thousand and eight in one day and it's a sure sign that investors are uncertain in fact they're scared they're fleeing because the economy doesn't have a very good outlook right now and you can bet that it's not going to get much better tomorrow invisible jobs numbers are. released to see the stock market it's exciting it moves fast those flashing numbers are so sexy so every single cable channel spent at least thirty minutes today focusing on just that the stock market not that they shouldn't do it but stock market dropping that's temporary more americans than ever before in food stamps that doesn't pass in a fleeting socket it's hopefully not permit but it's definitely not going to change overnight especially if the government doesn't focus on job growth in the economy

and companies continue to layoff or simply not dire and people out of their money abroad so sorry all of you americans who can't afford food anymore you're just not sexy enough for t.v. your misery just doesn't move quite fast enough for the mainstream cable news now we've been speaking to struggling americans on this show and will continue to do so we'll continue to ask why it's happening all the mainstream media is content to miss. and i think it's pretty obvious that there's a fair amount of blame to lay on the mainstream media when it comes to misinforming now in reporting of what the debt deals in the kind of the lack of tax increases really mean they help shape the debate by focusing on partisan bickering allowing politicians to also skip on having to answer any questions about the real life impacts of their actions but then let's look at it from a different perspective to how do they shape the debate when it comes to giving certain individuals more airtime than others because it had anything to do with

what individuals arguments or logic are already does have to have a t.v. friendly face and you get a platform and no matter how crazy you may be now let's say that grover norquist crazy or not whatever you think could be a good example here in recent weeks he's great the television screens appearing on every single cable news network his stance and pledge of no new taxes no matter what side of zach that we would call middle of the road and that he apparently carried an incredible amount of influence over the republican party and the media so why grover why not somebody else. to discuss this with me is not welch editor in chief of reason magazine and co-author of the book the declaration of independence how libertarian politics can fix what's wrong with america thanks so much for being here today. we're going to get into grover himself as an individual in just a moment here but tell me i mean how much do you think the media really allows debates to be formed all by choosing who it is that they put on t.v. to represent either side. groover aside i think there's

a kind of in between the thirty five yard lines to take a football metaphor since you like golf so much. things that are excepted there by this sort of journalistic political class as the status quo regardless of whether the status quo is itself insane this long as it's in there than it's normal to talk about it people who insist on bringing up topics that are over here or over here there and do it in kind of a loud voice they are treated as pathological in some way or just kind of strange even if those issues that they're bringing up or ones that a lot of americans think is correct or that just are righteous in their own view and so by reinforcing who gets to be in there and who talks about that and also by calling those who are on the outside of those issues i was kind of crazy and sort of winking and nodding whenever you bring them up that reinforces this kind of view luckily there's so much more alternative media now that we can kind of root around that system but the bias the sort of status quo buys is extraordinary well so what i mean when you're talking about what the status quo is what what crazy ideas are

considered to be part of the norm or the polite politics. straight out of the headlines we have grown the size of government from one point eight trillion dollars federal government in two thousand to basically three point eight trillion dollars now the status quo is that it is kind of keeps going up keeps going up and that is viewed as normal but if you're an extremist you're a you're a lunatic you're a terrorist there's a lot of people have been i mean it's really a great i want to get there to know but i you know i'm not you know i'm not whining about it but i'm talking about from the perspective of people who are invested in the status quo people who are totally strange if they just say stop with this if they point out if they talk about how that's something that we should continue to do and so you know his network in both ways going to the same time if you. if you want health insurance to help pay for birth control for women or at least you know you want the government to mandate that and suddenly that makes you a socialist too i mean the same types of words are thrown around and i. side of the debate over the matter what side you're in and all of that i think is within this

mainstream discussion that's going on i think that actually you know single payer health care was used in your drama care thing as a term that that helps get rid of that as a notion even the idea of having a kind of safety net for the least well off was tossed aside kind of early on in the notion of obamacare because people were allergic to that kind of socialist label that way so yeah it happens on on every side we have to always be mindful of that when we hear people talk about things i mean just look at any issue that works very badly you talk a lot your show about the drug war and people are locked up this is a bipartisan thing but no one really believes in it with their own kind of private personal passion but there's incentives that keep things the way they are and if you bring it up in a mainstream setting people sort of freak out. when i hear you and i have talked about this a lot to is that we thought there maybe there was some type of sweeping change that was starting to come along because ron paul for example who has been saying the same thing for decades and for a long time

a lot of people didn't pay attention especially not the mainstream media then suddenly he became a media star again when the presidential contenders started lining up and we have the debates and you and i have spoken about this is why is libertarianism even becoming mainstream but i don't see ron paul on the t.v. screens lately have you i mean i have they labeled him back to crazy about going back there i think to go to grover norquist that he doesn't have an army in this hunt necessarily just makes every metaphor he's out there talking about he's much more talking about the debt ceiling deal than all the other republican candidates probably combined because they're all scared to talk about it he's not talking grover or. grover has a whip hand on so many different congressional candidates that's why he's out there why is that why is the road for newer equipment all powerful i just don't understand this guy is not an elected official and somehow he has all but thirteen republicans signed on to this pledge some even say as alan simpson going to show you a clip actually last night of lawrence o'donnell said this guys seems like it's more powerful in the president. to think

a look at. we want to dig in where does he get his money where does it come from how much was he made how many people you've got on the payroll what does he do where does he get his money who is he slave to somewhere that needs to come out very soon. i'm here is to kind of with alan simpson on that one gruber is probably the most effective single issue campaigner we talk about in our book out single issue campaigns are the future hopefully the ones that we agree with more than you know don't get rid of ethanol subsidies which grover has put it is don't draw the line in the sand he had a very attractive single idea and he was able to convince a lot of republicans that they would suffer for it but the interesting thing is that they're suffering less for it if you party is not an anti-tax movement it's an anti spending movement grover has never been an anti spending republican i talked to him in two thousand and four interviewed him said what's your biggest fear over the next four years of bush you know he said that people are going to talk about the deficit why because if people talk about the deficit then they're going to want

to raise taxes and his single issue is taxes but the thing is if you look at a lot of polls right now right americans are frustrated as americans don't really care about the deficit they're worried about the economy they're worried about not having any jobs and you know americans are not anti taxes from what it seems either if you look at this polling because they're frustrated they're furious that the bush tax cuts were extended especially for the wealthiest americans and that corporations are getting away with paying absolutely. and we're talking about some of the biggest companies in the world g.e. bank of america exxon alero you know that's a bipartisan issue and it's and it's a world partly of grover's creating by saying no new taxes ever no tax rates you invite people to game a monkey to tax code it's going to be the biggest players the g.e.'s who are going to say let's attract the crazy idea what grover norquist is on t.v. pushing and he's on every single channel as if it's normal and has all the power because he does have power is what i'm saying and that's it makes sense you want to know where he stands on this because he still scares the hell out of

a lot of republicans but few. tom shroder who voters scared republicans are should they be worried about what the american people are going to say rather than grover norquist absolutely but this happens on the democrat side as well there are various pledges that you're supposed to take in order to be a good democrat there's a new line in the sand if you don't ever touch entitlements and if you ever say that you're going to think about it we're going to punish you on that that's is interest group politics president obama obviously didn't sign that pledge really quickly i just want to ask because this was you know news that happened right before the show started to the stock market closed upon it five hundred points today tomorrow it's probably not going to be much better when you have bad jobs numbers coming out what does that tell you is that a sure sign that nobody has faith in the economy or you think it's i think i think one day analysis of the stock market is a game or a fool's game look at that the ten year look at decades worth of stock market were flat with some light spikes and bottles thrown in that tells us something that we have not been creating jobs for the last decade it wasn't didn't start with obama

certainly while we're increasing more and more government expenditure in the economy totally in the crapper so that's a lot more to me than a single day ok congressman cracker i love it matt thanks so much for joining us and stick around for happy hour if you will have you back the rest. are coming up a lawsuit filed against the u.s. government over an f.b.i. informant posing as a muslim in a california mosque. and wait until you hear why then he's suing the federal government after being searched and having items seized while entering the u.s. david house returns to the show tonight the f.b.i.'s on his lawsuit back to the o.j. trial response. in total where we would. do the work to bring justice and accountability. i have every right to know what my government's true if you want to know why i pay taxes. i would characterize obama as the charismatic. of american next. sepultura lives.

you know sometimes is the a story and it seems so for like sleep you think you understand it and then he'd slip something else here sees some other part of it and realize that everything is ok if you don't i'm sorry welcome to the big picture. says. let's not forget that we had an apartheid right here in the lead. i think iraq even wanted well. we're never government says they're going to keep him safe get ready because you give

them the freedom. for. food for. a. back in march parties from the lindo first told us how a group of muslims in southern california were making a case against the f.b.i. after word got out that an agent was conducting warrantless surveillance operations

in those mosques the members of the mosque were worried that the f.b.i. would split their tightly knit muslim community and they fear that fellow mosque goers would start turning against each other because of an undercover f.b.i. agent asking suspicious questions about islam i'm fearful of retaliation would you feel. my way here's. a fear that. you know the f.b.i. is going to come. and craig montoyo was an informant for the f.b.i. posing as a muslim but when he started inquiring about radical jihad members of the community actually reported him back over to the f.b.i. they quickly learned of montreal's real motives and so now they're suing the f.b.i. for the warrantless surveillance but sadly looks like this lawsuit against the f.b.i. is never going to really reach a court attorney general eric holder filed papers this monday to dismiss the case and i don't know why take a wild guess because it could reveal state secrets and

a declaration holder wrote discloser of the reasons for and substance of a counterterrorism investigation could reasonably be expected to cause harm to national security such disclosures would reveal the subjects who are involved in or are planning to undertake terrorist activities what the f.b.i. knows and does not know about their plans and the threat they pose to national security. of course anytime anybody in the muslim community actually tries to hold the u.s. government accountable but at state secrets and speaking of the muslim population in the u.s. team obama launched a new initiative to prevent radicalization on wednesday white house officials sent out a warning that casting suspicion on the muslim american community could backfire and promote string that they also promise to share educational materials about as long to law enforcement officers and offer guidelines on how to treat muslim americans as allies to the government wow perhaps the president should start of the latest campaign or write down the street right over the f.b.i. here in d.c. i'm sorry but it's a little bit contradictory to act like you're trying to be chummy with the muslim

community all the feds are infiltrating those communities who are radical jihad just information and they may also find it odd that the white house launched this campaign on the exact same week that eric holder invoked that state secrets privilege towards a muslim lawsuit from the muslim community might be feeling some people but not me perhaps a little bit of planning to hide your real intentions of please don't say one thing and then do another just makes you look foolish mr president. well looks like the justice department finally has a response pretty bad house and reported to you on this show in the past as well as spoken with house about this case he's the founding member of the bradley manning support network and a little help from the a.c.l.u. of massachusetts a lawsuit was filed after a house was detained at chicago o'hare's international airport it was question for an extended period of time he had of laptop a thumb drive and a digital camera confiscated and they tell you says that house is constitutional rights to free speech and association were violated but he was targeted soley for

his association with the bradley manning support network for the o.j. is did spewing that charge in court with documents saying the government is not prohibited from examining any items at the border simply because they may be related to the work of an organization now another element in it that it took ice immigration excuse me which is immigration and customs. portsmouth forty nine days to return that equipment to house for the court files an expose about when to they said that the lack of password access required eyes computer experts to spend additional time on mr house's laptop because he was running both lights and windows on his computer and made the task more difficult so it makes you wonder if v.h.s. might need some better computer forensics experts so joining me to give a response tonight is a bit house the founding member of the bradley manning support network they want to thank you for joining us tonight now we can break this into a few different elements here but for starters i just read that quote and the official response in the court documents from the justice department that really

there is nothing they can prevent from looking at your documents or looking at your laptop because of your association with an organization when you think about that. it's a very interesting stance to take and so important to know this case there's not really any closely should backing up your decision here. this is kind of a clean story you've already to search through here is a border you've already to. keep if you're going across the border so it's hard for them to claim that they have this authority. legislation or case law backing it up it was even more bizarre as they see in the in the in the return it was a return to the reason they wanted to keep my computer or keep it beautiful my computer it was for purposes of litigation it was ongoing which is interesting because it makes you wonder who's u.s. government going to use this information seized order for evidence in a court of law and what does it mean when the u.s.

government can we your citizens across the border in a subroutine in a warrant you see superhumanly for nationally a recent lot of very top asking for questions and he's still you know fighting corruption so have they made it clear though as to whether they are they want to keep that information for litigation specifically regarding your case and the a.c.l.u. or that it might have something to do with bradley manning on the grand jury in virginia no details. it's very unclear it's very nebulous and whenever we actually try to push them to give us information we get no reply so the documents that were term recently only response of substance we've got but as an example my lawyers at the a.c.l.u. recently tried to obtain information or information the f.b.i. if each of us and c.d.p. they had about my troubles and what was returned was a notice that three hundred forty three pages of documents relating to my travel records had been completely redacted and were not available because i was so something's definitely going on here and one must really wonder what they're

getting at here is just part of a larger targeting attackers in the future scientists in general as we see got also with the errors were facing cambridge or is this them to our community has the support network at this point it looks pretty unsure about what is the tenets of the u.s. government is scared right now a computer scientist and they will stop at nothing to make policy so they can crack down as computer scientists and others that's a trouble problem well since you brought up eric sorenson has been had a guest here on our cell numerous times as well do you think that's a concerted effort to scare people into intimidates on a larger scale than just go after harry himself. that's definitely the sense here in boston i mean for those who don't know eric schwartz was the gentleman with the . ethics who allegedly downloaded academic documents from the mit you know were and as the story goes it might not want to press new charges they were pretty much going with this according to public statements but they do you jay stepped in and said no we want to prosecute scott. ever shorts in boston is trying to you know the

symbol of food culture he's going to jewel. in the past and been very outspoken for open source initiatives so it's possible the u.s. government here is just kind of trying to really get to mix who are supporting the intellectual basis that groups like anonymous and groups like selves are going out looking at you know it's a very tough time here in the region everyone is a little free tell now you also mentioned and we're going to get into this in further detail that it seems like the government is a little scared right now when it comes to the hacker community but i also asked about that second detail that i mentioned are guarding ice and their reasoning for holding their equipment for forty nine days they said that they didn't have the password so that made it more difficult because you're running into operating systems on your computer is that i don't know these things you have to honestly tell me is that a really hard thing to crap shouldn't their computer experts be able to get a little faster solution two things here we should examine august first is the claim that they had to hold my computer for forty nine days because if you

operating systems for the uninitiated the linux operating system is actually a very simple operating system much like windows or you can freely downloadable and it's mostly used by programmers and i get to mix that leads you down open source operating system it's surprising to me that teach us what actually come out and saying they don't how do we first got experience can it will that working with this us as is no worse it is using government agencies it's utopian to say to some things if you can i think it's possible so it doesn't bode very well but us government terms of who we are hiring right now and they don't have really experts people who actually understands all criticism edition to that this. the password is actually very interesting well in the papers return in the u.s. government is saying that because i did not buy my password that itself may be an illegal act and again they don't actually cite any he saw here any legislation any law at all it's so easy to retreat in the suspect as well why is it u.s. government now is quoting you write your password to your scene when you cross the

border if i were c.e.o. of a major organization if i were journalists or if you write like this i'd be very frightened i imagine makes you wonder who the government is exactly hiring him do you think a paralegal desperate for hire is right now i mean we know. didio da's instead c.h.s. agency the n.s.a. but nasa they're all descending upon us they guess right now our death con is going on trying to recruit new hackers but do you think that there is a more of a mad rush then we might have ever seen before it's very possible although i don't know if you get what i mean there's this sense that you seem bostom if you are a computer science it is very still but if you're an individual who are actually in the academic arena or understood kind of where computer science and the internet is people world in this kind of power shift direction why would you waste your time working for the government why would you put yourself in the foam of an organization that will just kind of control your silence so the real challenge here

is not going to government the real talent here is going abroad it will tell if you're a single human rights organizations or witness but we think it's so it is very interesting to see who they're trying to hire and i think the u.s. government is desperate to keep up with the tongue or that's why they're sitting federal agents right now to have the senate sent to recruit hackers and actually increase the amount on a bill that are i'm just curious to know in the past have the government ever approached you. a person to person so you know well. there's that incident has been doesn't try to get you to work for them i mean by that i mean they want to be interviewed for that last year which is pretty typical going to be keeping stuff was going down they wanted everyone to be there for them but in terms of actually trying to be absolutely not like it's a real time of work for the u.s. government there's so much more important things to be working on but i just wonder you know from an economic standpoint do you think they're the real talents might be swayed in a different direction because there are human rights organizations like of private

the economy isn't exactly in good shape and the n.s.a. for example this year this fiscal year which ends in september they're going to be hiring fifteen hundred new people next year they plan on hiring fifteen hundred new people to i don't know how well the government pays but it seems like it might be tempting for some people with the incentives or person you care if you are someone if you are someone from some security knowledge in your job i can imagine that this must be a great something offer from the federal government. if you didn't feel like you're helping us not security et cetera et cetera. but i would say that we find a really talented are the ones that really understand where those things go away but ones that really grasp the political connotations of a nice and open a commission on ourselves are i think these people the ones who are rather seductions work with local government trying because you people are a part of the hierarchy of the government and i have a very hard time keeping up. really quickly do you have any updates on bradley

manning for us. i do not i've been trying to get in to see him for six months now we're going to look at or order anything in the new communications friends in boston i've written letters we've got up in berkeley so everyone's a little bit worried trying to figure out whether he's going to cave or not. we really wish the attorney or something that would give us information and that's trying to boston right now i never want to thank you very much for joining very much for joining us and filling us in on on all of that broad scope of topics but definitely see. where everything is heading these days in terms of hacking on the government's response to it thanks so much but we put it. all thursday edition of show and tell us coming up next and then how do average americans feel about washington and their inaction on the economy may we get a more personal view of the man was the coming in to pick him up. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it.