these are made of the joys either to reduce the number of visits secure the grand imperial. tours was the crew until you can a little children return it's a duty to go and clear this is the colonel was the child is used to retreat. after witnessing a month of worrying were over raising the debt ceiling they doubted our political systems. ladies and gentlemen children of all ages the ringleader has spoken about even with standard and poor's stamp of disapproval over the debt ceiling debate why is the political circus still in town. and it's a bird a plane oh wait no it's super congress their mission to save the day and the u.s. dollar defense and health lobbyist act as kryptonite in this budget battle.

and what was once of peaceful protests now are rotting what some are calling an arche in the u.k. so what is exactly behind all of this violence. all right it's monday august eighth four pm here in washington d.c. i'm laurin lister and you're watching our t.v. so the stock market is taking a plunge today what is going on and where is this headed this being the global economy of the u.s. economy will first the obvious let's look at the u.s. lost its aaa credit rating on friday was downgraded by standard and poor's late friday the ratings agency also downgraded mortgage giants fannie mae and freddie mac. today it inspired these mainstream media headlines across the country in response markets brace for downgrades told. how bad will it get markets react to debt

downgrade anxiety shakes global markets was another right there all of this coming out as a downgrade happened leaders try to calm fear in markets so that's how the mainstream media responded now the stock market has responded to it's taken a plunge but how much does this actual downgrade matter how much of it is a response to what this ratings agency it is really why the markets are plunging well investor and author john rogers says no that's not really why and here is his argument united states has not been a aaa credit for a long time the only people who don't know that about it are standard and poor's and moody's and u.s. government the united states is the largest debtor nation in the history of the world who cares what the rating agencies say we don't know that it's no longer so there is no longer valid we don't print edition of them they've been wrong about everything for to new year as the rise of calls in. such big news or have lies if

you will ways there is no one really cares what the agencies say how important is how significant is this really it's not causing any news to me i you know i could care less if i see you have to have something to report i know it's a weekend and things are slow who cares if you know i wouldn't pay any attention to it there must be better things to report than this everybody knows the u.s. is the largest debtor nation in the world this is not news this is old news but what about it being a safe haven a triple a and has had that position for a long time making u.s. treasuries for example a safe investment over what would that mean for investors will markets be reacting to this it's not a safe haven anymore according to some of these ratings. three years ago standard course louise said that sub prime loans were aaa they had hundreds of sub prime loans that were aaa they said a.i.g. was aaa and until the day it went bankrupt they said fannie mae and freddie mac. were trying to be aaa until they went bankrupt please these people have never been

right why do you pay attention to i don't know any investors any real investors who pay any attention to these people anymore what effect will have an asian economy no known whatsoever all the asians already know that america's got problems all of us are already moving out of u.s. government bonds everybody in asia knows that all of this is away from the aaa rating but let's go to this is the plan that we've been seeing have recently this has been the sharpest since two thousand and eight and it does we have bring back memories of the lead up to the international crash in two thousand and eighteen you think there's going to be a second global recession oh absolutely we never got out of the first global recession unemployment in america is still higher than it was in two thousand and eight but american debt is skyrocketing going through the dead or through the roof america's in worse shape now than it was before america spent a lot of money and people who god had money ok there are but the overall situation is much worse i mean going back to the names and i just want to ask you dismiss the agencies but they do

a fact of conscience borrowing costs right and surely that's got to mean something . this as i said anybody who pays attention to triple to this and p. and moody's is wasting their time double a trust it's not the end of the world or even single it's not the end of the world really many people invest in single a bonds and trips and being on end of the world rankings are part of vision or us will default is no question we will either inflate pay people back in worthless money we will inflate it away we will change the rules we will put on exchange controls our vision of the us would have thought that's why people are moving away from u.s. government bonds and actually you have the u.s. government the obama administration also pointing fingers at standard and poor's kind of similar to jim rogers but they're saying their accounting was wrong they're trying to discredit them discredit their analysis in this downgrade but i want to point out that part of that downgrade was based not on accounting but on politics

on the gridlock on capitol hill that brought the u.s. scarily close to default within hours of a possible default now in response to the downgrade that all said that you know said right out in the open what reaction did we see from the political class and say look this is essentially a tea party downgrade he's had a chance we're three years into this and he's failing and it's not the tea party's fault i believe this is without question the tea party downgrade there is dysfunction in our system and a lot of it has to do with the failure of the president a stage to lead in my view that punctuated once again the failure of leadership by the president i think this is a tea party from god they're totally unreasonable and doctrinaire and not founded in reality i think they've been spoken some of that scene i just break it. more politics more political posturing more pointing fingers in a political debate the irony seems to support s.

and p's very case that said that all the side yields on u.s. treasuries today are low despite the market plummeting a stock market more than five hundred points the dow jones yields on ten year u.s. treasuries reached a low that hasn't seen since two thousand and nine there are two point three two last i checked so why is this happening why are people freaked out about u.s. debt given its downgrade perhaps perhaps because investors know that when it comes to coming up with the money to pay its investors in reality it's pretty simple for the u.s. the u.s. just has to print more money which it has the ability to do something that former federal reserve chairman alan greenspan pointed out. pretty. good. profit group of the world and speaking of printing money let's look at the bigger picture to the european central bank said they'll do that and they will intervene

more aggressively to protect italy and spain essentially bail them out so with europe and the u.s. seeming to look more like what someone called a race between two cripples it may be no surprise that people are getting out of the stock market saying i don't want to play putting their money into gold which surged to more than seven hundred dollars an ounce and i guess you could argue into u.s. treasuries too so maybe the bigger question that we ought to be asking is where is the country and the global economy heading look looking forward to ask that question i want to first look back i want to go back to two thousand and eight when the u.s. was bailing out the financial system listen to this concern at the time from congressman ron paul. sincere conviction by doing more mischief in not allowing markets to or just get to be liquidated you're going to guarantee a depression it's going to be prolong the agony is going to be there for

a lot longer than if you like markets to adjust liquidation and then let her let the good assets come up. and let the market correct let the market pay the price instead we've got bailouts for banks so is what paul was talking about in two thousand and eight what we're saying now did leaders kick the can down the road and is the global economy headed for a collapse essentially their leaders how contrary to that those are the questions that we're going to discussing at five pm with gerald celente of trends research group you won't want to miss it now talking about the downgrade today president obama said it's not plans or policies that's a problem in washington it's this it's the insistence on drawing lines in the sink or refusal to put what's best for the country ahead of self interest or party or ideology. that's what we need to change that's what we need to change and obama

said this downgrade does give him new hopes for the supercommittee to do just that now the committee remember is supposed to make more than a trillion dollars in cuts as part of the debt deal that congress passed now obama hopes this downgrade will give them a renewed sense of urgency to compromise he said that but you're explain how that is going to be possible given not the political deadlock even in the picture but given that this committee has reportedly triggered a lobbying bonanza his problem with our reporter for huffington post so thank you so much for being here paul thank you for having me my first question is what kind of mobilizing are we seeing on k. street in response to this supercommittee well we're looking at one point five trillion dollars in cuts to the deficit to the day over the next ten years and that is a huge amount of money for basically any industry in the big thing in this super committee is that we're talking about triggered cuts in health care and defense spending if they don't come up with a different plan so you have the defense industry is mobilizing heavily the

aerospace association has already stated that they want to see members from armed services committees on the super committee to be able to make decisions people that they have close contacts with and the health care companies really don't want to see cuts in medicare because a lot of their profits come from medicare payments what how much power do they have to implement who is going to be on this committee as you mentioned that they're mobilizing to do and what gets at one stage i feel that a lot more of who gets appointed to the committee will be much more partisan based you're seeing a lot of that political gridlock a lot of the clips that you just showed show that these people are butting heads on both sides and i think that more of the lineup of the committee is going to be based on how the parties can play the politics better than the interest groups can play what comes out of the committee ok so you think that the that actually lobbyists don't have as big of a role don't have attentional overall the skills. those still absolutely have a big role it's just we're seeing

a lot of this is it's politics sort of running ahead of industry wants and desires ok so as far as the industry wants and desires who stands to win and lose in these debt deals as a result of lobbying efforts well i mean if the political decision makers can come together and come up with a built in the people who will lose the most or the defense industry which you know defense secretary leon panetta is already standing up for and health care industry with cuts to medicare and those are pretty huge cuts they're looking at with the power of lobbies and both the health care industry and the defense industry which we know they will have powerful lobbies that are mobilizing now as you pointed out do you think it's possible we're going to see those dramatic cuts but will that ever be a possibility with how powerful those lobbies are well i think that's the big question whether any of these cuts are actually really possible is it i mean it was very difficult to watch obama in the congressional republicans in the congressional

democrats try to come up with some kind of deal and you know do we really think that they can come up with another deal down the road when there are so many competing interests and do you think they can do this right complicate it what this doesn't really do you think that with all of these interests in the fray this makes compromise even more difficult which is already difficult as we. absolutely the compromise becomes a lot harder when you start to bring in other interests that don't line up necessarily with the politics of the moment so whether that's the defense industry saying that you know they don't want to see any cuts at all which is what defense secretary panetta has said for it is another industry saying that they don't want to see their taxes go up they don't want tax reform or you just have the political considerations of the republicans not desiring any tax increases any kind of increase in revenue or the democrats not wanting any kind of changes to social security and medicare all of those things lined up to create a real bottleneck in

a process where they've already kicked the can as far down the road as they can so then how can the country effectively not the country politician how can the politicians affectively put in place fiscal policies that do the right thing for the country that write down the deficit and take the make the best consideration when you have all of those competing interests. i think that's a good question and part of it starts with the you know requiring that this committee hold its proceedings in the open and you know that's something that we don't even know yet whether. the committee will be transparent whether webcast their hearings or whether they'll impose any new rules on lobbyists like the obama administration did on previous big problems these where there was the stimulus bill or whether it's the dodd frank financial regulation reform where they required a lot more disclosure around you know lobby meetings so you say you know but it's actually going to be different it's difficult when you have all these competing interests but absolutely it makes it more difficult it makes it much more difficult

for politicians who are already butting heads for any logical reasons when you have other interests that that continuously want more money or less taxes so then does that prove as n.p.'s concern over washington's inability to make proper fiscal decisions to govern this country in a way that gives them the highest credit rating and i think a lot of that has to do with you know the video logical positions of the political parties that if you think that the s. and p. pointed out particularly. a finger at the bush tax cuts and that congressional republicans will not let them expire and this is a big reason for the intrenchments in washington and a lot of that is also built around interest groups lobbying whether it's the chamber of commerce or the business roundtable who wants these tax cuts extended permanently so do you think this proves f.m.p.

point that there that washington can effectively put in place difficult policy and make difficult decisions i don't know if it exactly proves their point that washington can't affectively do that it seems that right now maybe they don't want to but did you see interest groups make it more difficult. the interest groups. complicate the situation more more than it needs need to be you know the they're asking for less taxes and more spending at the same time when the political parties are confused about which of those things that they want for political reasons i mean you know republicans want to knock obama out of the white house and so they pursue certain economic policies to to make that possible the pilot of the quagmire if you ask me i want to thank you so much for coming in and giving us your insight that was all blumenthal reporter for the huffington post now speaking of lobbying it's not just domestically interest international interests hire lobbyists foreign governments to have their message heard and washington and as this case shows it

can make a big difference in the relationships between countries three years after fighting broke out between georgia and russia and south of setia one side continues to enjoy better press and public opinion in the united states and our teeth can't afford investigated the part that lobbyists had to do in that. three years ago when war broke out between georgia and russia and south the city. of conflict estimated to have killed hundreds and displaced one hundred eighteen thousand in just five days the us media it is like david versus goliath georgia's president says russia is attacking his country and u.s. lawmakers like then republican presidential candidate john mccain today we are all georgians were quick to place blame. the european union report found that not all played by only the international humanitarian law the fighting was sparked by a quote large scale georgian military operations against such

a but the court of public opinion said otherwise thanks in part to one side the lobbying dollars it's certainly few days for the us for us and for other people in the us other suspects august and so i wonder why don't you get things together and say hold on wait a minute it was georgia that actually seems that started this conflict russia starts. we want to think twice going on and declare that you know we're all to work in this case that's not necessarily in the u.s. interest documents show that the government of georgia has paid lobbyists since two thousand and four to maintain close ties with washington. even after violent crackdowns and anti-government demonstrators in two thousand and seven in two thousand and eleven where there is only one in elections that were criticised for irregularities by the organization of security cooperation in europe in two thousand and eight part of the message could be delivered during the preparation for the war and during the time afterward is. really is the thomas jefferson of

georgia he is a democrat he was pro-american he's more he supports our values. and that's not just a little details about the way he treats his political opposition groups the media and george oddly fact this really did night being obvious in two thousand and eight what we really hope of course was. well the lobby is from the protest a group called nasdaq on september seventh two thousand and ten thanks seconds feel they close the markets on september twenty first thank you obvious also sent frequent e-mails to senator g.m. shaking just weeks before shane introduced a resolution quote affirming u.s. support for the sovereignty of georgia when the war broke out in two thousand and eight mccain told supporters he spoke with saakashvili to express his own support prayers and support. the american people are with that brave little nation documents filed with the justice department show that mccain's top foreign policy adviser already schumann's firm works for the government of georgia while shooting

and worked on mccain's campaign for my work in the campaign was separate and distinct from my work is obvious but others say that's a tough distinction to make john mccain is one of those leaders and it remains a lot of. party hard on foreign policy issues and it certainly tells you something that his world view is in shape very closely of by a guy like brad sherman critics say that lobbying dollars undercut the diplomacy between russia and united states that president obama has made such a priority for his administration given for an artsy washington d.c. . and here now to talk about the role that these lobbies represent. in washington for foreign interests and how these impact u.s. foreign policy and then also affect the u.s. his credibility around the world as a result is ivan eland he is senior fellow at the independent institute thanks for being here thanks for having me on so we just saw how lobby's played a role during the whole russia south a say

a conflict in the united states is perception and role in that as well but this is not limited to a storage are any one country i mean foreign governments employ lobbyists to to have influence in washington and in many cases so what where are other instances where we see have seen that impact foreign policy well a more general point is that the u.s. has never a foreign policy that has multiple foreign policies and the lobbying groups and their foreign constituents have a big role in israel of course is the facts are probably in the middle east you have armenians there me and so have a big lobby the greeks have a big lobby because there's a lot of greek americans polls have a big lobby which we saw in the nato expansion. debates of the pair. very. wrong lobby in the united states the taiwanese have a strong lobby or the types of things that we see that govern us policy in many times i think the u.s.

interest is contrary to what these groups want the u.s. interest its contract like it's. usually wins out well usually the groups do it because in our political system groups all went out unless the issue gets very elevated so that the entire public can debate the or if there's a crisis or something maybe something or will will change but usually the groups have when when people aren't paying attention the groups can bring a lot of money and a lot of voters you know these people are vote congress people in the united states and senators they don't respond necessarily to public opinion they respond to groups that they know will vote most people won't vote so if you're getting a lot of lobbying pressure they know that this group and in this case it would be a country can develop can bring polish americans or greek americans to the polls and also give a lot of money they pay attention to these groups and so the groups really walk on

and head and govern issues until they get elevated to a certain to a certain height in the public awareness and then maybe that will be countervailing forces ok so where would you give a very i guess insidious example of where they interests of lobbying groups for these governments when's out over what is in the u.s. as best interest well i think in two cases the polish. lobbying on nato expansion and i would say the one that you just mentioned the georgian case clearly georgia started the war and in the united states our media always amid this fact oh big rush is picking on little georgia will georgia started shelling the capital. the regions and in south ossetia and abkhazia they they really were the aggressor i think and they may be a smaller country but nonetheless they left this out and you saw the op eds at the

time i was very shocked when i read through them that no one mentions that there was an artillery door and then the georgian started. shelling the capital so you just you know you just gets left out so that and of course pieces these groups are all pitching to the op ed writers of the papers and that sort of thing and there are a lobbyist behind all those ads that you read in the papers a lot at least a lot of on there they're not they're not writing them but they're giving a lot of information to the writers and you know according public opinion that informs the mainstream media perspective well what's really thought on that case too so what does this all do to the u.s. its credibility around the world well i think it you know other countries realize that we have a democracy in that groups are going to come in and they sort of take into account that these pressure groups like the palestinians for instance will say well you know the have the u.s.

law being locked up and we don't have as much say but the problem is the palestinians to these countries still hope that the u.s. will somehow be an honest broker in the same middle east peace but the u.s. and my view can never be an honest broker because the israeli lobby is so strong and then you add that to the fundamentalist christian lobby which also supports israel and you have an overwhelming overwhelmingly one sided pressure and when you do a little diagram of that there's no pressure coming from the opposite side so you know what's going to happen in the policy area and i think a lot of that happened with nato expansion as well but all the un garion americans in the polish americans and the czech americans were lobbying heavily for this and of course we saw this irresponsible. commitment made by the united states to. countries like i've got a time to real quick yes or no that is u.s. foreign policy available to the highest bidder well yeah so i think it is a pretty good go i don't agree with anything else about god i was iranian senior

fellow if independent institute now going overseas to something that could very well impact us right here some are calling it an arche in the u.k. today is the third day of riots in the british capital now it started when police shot a twenty nine year old man that was the catalyst but what has transpired since there were looting of shops rioting it appears to be inspired by so much more what is behind the violence and especially as we talk about economic collapse austerity which we've seen in the u.k. does this have roots that spread far beyond just this one country just a short while ago artie's kevin on spoke with correspondent i've or bennett who is in london and i will have the latest on what is going on right there. give rise to continue to spread even as late as this evening and this is now the third day in a row that's been happening across the city and each time it's a new location that's affected the latest as it is said is lewisham which is in the south of the city really the other end of london to tottenham which is where the

initial resting place on saturday night and what pictures we've seen there is of two vehicles that are just been set on set alight riot police have been deployed there in lucian in south london we don't know yet i don't have any figures on a number of arrests if any that have been made there but the worst action the most severe unrest that took place today was in hackney in the north east of london again another area that was previously unaffected until until today what was happening there was looters groups of people swarming the main high streets there smashing windows ransacking shops in some cases stealing and looting merchandise things like t. shirts trainers in other cases it was laying their hands on whatever they could to hurl at the police as missiles chairs wooden beams and riot police in the area trying to control the situation by forming a human line across the street and charging up the right to funnel them down one

area but the problem they're facing is that once they control one street another pocket of violence erupts in another street in reports around this evening saying that the writers are actually caught in a tin ear if it's using blackberry instant messaging via mobile phones now that differs to twitter where twitter is public. this is private messaging so groups can coordinate their movement privately and that's their head of the police ok over we just gives more information through speak obviously taken extremely seriously wearing the london's murderous johnson's cut short his son a holiday to return to the capital as more than two hundred have been arrested and thirty five officers injured were also hearing as well earlier on today the home secretary said may returning from a holiday. to meet. police commissioner to goodwin and other senior officers to try and stem what's going on near the catalyst for it was the shooting. the catalyst for the beginning of the weekend anyway with the shooting of this twenty nine year

old man is that the catalyst for everything else that's going on or no that's not really the case as that's what's been suggested by police chiefs as you said saturday night the catholics was the fatal shooting by police of mark duggan earlier in the week twenty nine year old man in tottenham what was supposed to be a peaceful process on the police station there erupted into violence widespread looting and. scenes that looked like a war zone really building set on fire there's a widespread looting police officers injured what's happened since then though is pockets of violence of running up elsewhere across the city in various parts last night further north in enfield also in south london in brixton today also in hackney in various parts throughout the city and what's been suggested by police chiefs is that this is copycat violence that's the phrase they're using suggesting people just jumping on the bandwagon really using this excuse.