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year. i'll be back with more news for us in thirty minutes from now or not in the meantime cross-talk and peter lavelle of these guests debate whether the english language will always remain dominant in the world discussion next to nothing. really new the latest in science and signals from. the future. it. was. a lonely and welcome to cross talk about people about the english language continues to flourish does it threaten other languages with one in three people

speaking english does this promote western values and with the rise of asia english maintain its period position in the world. to discuss the language question i'm joined by robert phillips and in copenhagen he's professor emeritus at the copenhagen business school in paris we go to john paul media he's author of the book don't speak english parlayed globish and in hong kong we have david ragdoll he is the distinguished visiting scholar at city university of hong kong and another member of our cross talk team yelena hunger all right gentlemen this is cross talk we can jump in anytime you want to jump oh i'd like to go to you you have a new i suppose a language or quasi language that you're introducing to the world and it's called globalists and how is it different from english and if you could for partly could you answer in globish for us oh there is

a english is even meant to be very correct english but it is what we call english lite it is a simplified from of english with this words it would six eleven fifteen it's not worth and you're twenty three that's way too much so a negative will station that was fifteen hundred words and the children know those words again but use of those words you can express all you need in the world for business purposes or is it always so it is in english light would steal a car i can recall right will give us an example given is example what it sounds like and what words you like to use go ahead. i mean when you eat it or you are in english this is this is if i don't eat the being grass in this argued or worse is mostly comprised of me and my siblings you might understand that if you are in the war among the media or most people will not understand that so if you want to get done with it because you can say this is our company top management

you don't know is going to be mostly me and your children or my parents and you get the same message across with the words are seem very long to my limited list and if it were not on you better so your heat rate in terms of understanding would be ten times bigger if you used these kind of thought relations ok robert if i go to you in copenhagen is this just jibberish bad english. i think it's very clear that. when you are in the real world you obviously have to communicate as best you can i am worried by the idea that a simplified form of english like that isn't it's a bit like mcdonald is asian it's a packaged version which apparently will give you the satisfaction that you need whereas in the real world. people don't really function like that they negotiate meaning they try to get through and as an educational goal i think they need to be exposed to relinquish as it is used in a whole range of contexts so i'm

a bit worried that this is a quick fix in some way whereas learning english you have to be culturally sensitive depending on who you're speaking through which part of the world you are what your goals are it's a much more complex task then what globish claims to be capable of achieving ok david i mean well it's a very good point you know the mcconnell ization of english but that's the trend in the world that everything's getting mcdonnell wise i think john paul's point is that you know if you want to be able to communicate and communicate as best you can and i think if i'm i should we make it clear i should make it where my audience is . this is a this is a kind of kweisi language of non-native speakers speaking to each other like again speaking to japanese japanese speaking to koreans and that means that it's not really actually doesn't have anything to do with needed speakers of english i actually agree partly with both robert and john paul i mean i think this is not really so much a question of mcdonald ais ation as the struggle to communicate in the real world

by people who don't actually have a lot of english but i think it's quite right john paul is actually on to something here saying that people need some guidance as to how to best deploy the limited resources of the language they have to communicate clearly and this is actually something which perhaps native speakers need to learn about as well so it's not entirely just a matter for non-native speakers ok i'll jump all in if then why not just learn english i think i'm going online what robert was saying and if you want to use english want you to speak it properly. well we should make clear that there are audition b.r.d. would be two kinds of the english gave the english which gives you access to the co-chair of the anglo-saxon going to share which is immense verity each outstanding going from shakespeare to mark twain and if you like bill gates so this is very true and if you want to enjoy it if you want to read appreciate all your content you need korean english which for pursuit of me is a life that if rocked if you want to close

a deal in must call or talk ill or in c. or. if you speak like you speak and then mistakes as must be local people will not understand you and this is my observation when i went to japan in one thousand nine hundred ninety four does business decisions i observed some americans when training me for making him i was a vice president with i.b.m. usa then and i observed that the japanese there and koreans and sooner and the chinese in beijing the far east where much better ideas with me and just who knew better and better and what i could observe between them and americans and that's why i said we thought we were speaking english we are not we are speaking a different kind of language there is something different so far that is correct and starts going to its conclusion this is concerned internationally he's not and we have to give you one or two mobile guy to meet wrote the report with his council which i could extensively in my book and in these people there are many scenes

which are worse you got to hear one of them is that in ninety six percent of the cases in international communication there is at least one no native english speaker who is involved and it's up to you native english speakers to adjust to get a bit of this person or not be as good as going to because they can eat would be ok example i mean i could agree with you maybe if you're talking about your childhood or buying a ticket at a train station or ordering in a restaurant or something like that. you bring a business i mean most businesses you have contracts and you have very specific laws and clauses and things like that this this language can't work for that if i go to robert on that i mean it's for chick chat it's just to get you know get through some playing is this something you wouldn't sign a contract with using this kind of language it's too imprecise i mean it has nothing to do with english as a school subject or you're trying to equip people to function in

a range of ways and i at once one of things that worries me about the whole promotion of different types of english worldwide is that the assumption morris is that the only language you need worldwide these days is english you don't get far with english in latin america or even in southern europe or in most of asia so that when for instance danish companies are asked why they have failed to achieve a business deal in japan or in italy they tend to say always because they don't speak english well enough there whereas what companies ought to be doing in order to trade with japan and italy is to have enough people in the country who can actually function will understand the culture as well as the language of japan or korea or or italy so that so far as education is concerned it's a totally different ballgame and i agree really with the mystical bell here that the but the idea that you can do complex negotiations with a simplified register is misleading milk

a jumbo you were shaking your head you disagree go ahead. well i'm sorry and i think. illustration because i'm not a native english speaker as you may have released already but an eclipse so wonderful after century i'm afraid it is run companies. because we go ahead you know so i could go on many people who do that as far as contacts are concerned you have experience that can have the contracts and constitute them from american into english to begin with from into u.k. english so that you don't have to do when you're negotiating what you have to do is discuss what he got from and so your products or your services understand the needs of your customer and you don't need a full english for that you did you can do it with a limited english programming you four or a new governor you'll be formulate you use your sentences and you check that your people are in front of you our understanding you which most native english speakers don't seem to should do then running a foreign language to do business in d.c.

in a foreign land is valid in only one instance if you are living in destroying and so used to be here there are many here for say stop will do it if the money so as soon as they are saying frenchman two hundred company that is an answer he was expected to be able to learn dutch and speak dutch in four months so you had to pick a guy who's not going to german and english and in four months he was enough to discuss who's out in english what it is or not to be in a country they don't so that's true but when you are discussing international business you need who understood that the war way language was going to be some kind of english and there would be no step back because. part i have my countrymen here take a jump here and go to david here why don't you put a shoe on the other foot i mean should native speakers of english maybe delve into this because it'll it'll make it easier for them to communicate with people and then i'm saying just for a limited purposes if you want to go travel around the world as we just it was

pointed out in some places and in europe in asia and in south america there's very limited english wouldn't be a bad idea for native speakers say take a real short course in that and you can get by a lot easier. i'm not i'm all in favor of native speakers being taught how to use their language in a more effective ways when talking to non-native speakers i don't think it actually needs to sort of to learn a soap and english light a special kind of english i think it's more about strategies and principles hold for using the language that you already know but i think that we are talking about different things here i think that i agree a tiley with with robert on this that for ordinary service and characters just doing business at a lower level then find some kind of english life will work but that's not how the global economy works christly you have multinational companies for example working in a number of different countries you have researches technicians and so on who have to work as a global team and communicating with

a pretty high level subject within that team across the world and that really does mean look everyone has to share a very high level of english i am going to jump in right here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on what some people call imperialism party. just. like you study. suggests. jamie. cullum is. just

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about three mind you we're talking about global languages. he says. but we thought let's see what foreign languages are most popular among russians. global language over the years has. status being a language of business culture and diplomacy however english is not the only language used for international relations and poorly. the united nations program what has six official languages arabic chinese english french russian and spanish the public opinion poll and the assessed russians knowledge of foreign languages sixty seven percent said they speak english twenty percent durham and another five percent can speak french though inglis today has a dominant position other language is taking a stand so what playing which will the world's future and will we all ever speak

the same language peter i you jump on if i go back to you first one of the things i think is interesting is that you actually kind of a little baby correct me if i'm wrong kind of a linguistic nationalist yourself you you want to preserve good french ok how do you balance it with globish and being someone that really is a a connoisseur of the french language where people in france used to be very proud because you can is too good a language of diplomacy. if you have your say which was mostly discussed in english and then from there on. you some pretty and people are very happy about it it was he praised by english for each and every proposed wrongness and these we've been working on back because english is now our language which is going around the world not very well i've done very poorly even for researchers or people who seem to have

highly vote but it is there but when you need to come on vehicle for international communications and it will be a new step back because for the first time in history. the languages war wind and communication is instantaneous these niggas. will let you know heat where are you going to be cooler on to get there only and now this is the case so that we need to turn back and when the french people are disparate about the situation they are wrong french we never get back where did he and as they used to say many years ago if you're listening we could do about it now is the actions this is finishing this would be easier but it would not be the english. being spoken poorly like me and people like that and you think it's a very interesting point if i go to robert on this one here i mean if we look at people with the impact of the internet on english and you know and you can go to so many websites that purportedly are in english but they're in awful english there is a grammar is awful the spelling is awful the word choice is awful the syntax is

awful but what is stopping this inane and really we had agreed with you before before you know why don't you just learn proper english while the world is this way ahead of us here i mean they're going to use english anyway they want so i mean what direction we go in or can we just can we control it in any way probably not. the internet when it was launched meant that a lot of people thought that this would mean that english would expand at the expense of other languages in fact there are hundreds of languages used on the internet even very small ones demographically speaking and this means that obviously it makes a lot of sense in the modern world for anyone to want to have a very high level of proficiency in english the interesting thing for me at least when researching language policy is whether english is being added to people's repertoire which is great or else where the english is replacing other languages and this is where you mention the word imperialism obviously under the soviet

system the people of the three baltic states knew what linguistic imperialism was because bilingualism then was a dirty word for basically dropping their own language and shifting into russian and that's exactly what happened in a lot of the colonial world where there was definitely a major focus on on colonial languages like like french and english and english does open lots of doors world wide but one also needs to look at every particular context and see to what extent it actually closes doors for a large number of people while opening it for the few david what do you think about that i mean really big recall the imperialism element that i mentioned at the end of the first part of the program i mean it for all of the learning of languages in english is the most predominant one now we'll talk about it later if it's going to stay that way we have to think of the job of the chinese but i mean is it is it just is is is there's a destroyer languages that replacing languages because in talking to some of my you

know people who work on cross talk you know even when they speak russian the russian english is invading their language and they're in russia you know working with me and it's all a mixture of speaking of variety of languages even when two of them are throwing in french at the same time i mean is this good or does it or does it matter. what you know i find it very difficult to get sort of terribly worked up about them and i would just look at how the english language came to being of the sort of mongrel language that we have any way of really sort of current preaching purity i think that it is true and i absolutely agree with robert that you have to look at particular situations this is a very dangerous area in which to generalize just because there appear to be these big global trends going on that doesn't mean that actually the situation different countries is not very different particularly in terms of whether languages are actually being injured or perhaps i mean there's an argument to say here in hong kong but the role of english in hong kong is actually helping protect cantonese as

a sort of a past to root against encroaching put on one mandarin ok john paul if i can go to you a lot of people in and i want to go into a big chance the discussion here but it is easier is global value free does it have any values because it is a large a great argument in linguistics that you know it will take the english language for example it has a lot of built in values in it and and a world view and how to look at values in society it is global. or is it completely devoid of any kind of value in terms of having values. well it has. being what i call english you know for interfering leash devalue or being enough and was nice and i didn't say you can say it was easy you want for us as a duke or a president obama's inauguration speech because you know my website and put it in and say exactly the same thing but if it were her somewhere into g.q.

still ten times more people would have to stand it now to you know gratian species for americans but nonetheless there are people outside who would like to listen to it and it doesn't what he says without any consolation which is always distorting the meaning so devalue is that it is efficient it is not a language at all so it's only going to it's a tool to communicate and use a tool to make business and indeed he said it is enough but it doesn't go either values of the anglo-saxon culture exam qaeda values of democracy doesn't care you know over the years this is not the gold to go it is a simple as we make it efficient and by the way people who speak good enough english don't have to go to people like you do on d.v.d. and video and d.v.d. very seldom speak with people who don't speak with english because those who aren't who don't they dare not speak the native english speakers what do you think about that robert i mean is it isn't as i'm glad. i'm a bit puzzled by that because i think that immigrants like myself i live in denmark

although english is my mother tongue i mean i use four languages every week all the time and clearly once you have learned several languages there are vast advantages but to go back to your point about whether globish is intrinsically impregnated with the cultural values which english has evolved during its development over fifteen hundred years well i think i would say that very clearly english spread worldwide because of the british empire because of the colonization of america in australia and so on and so this means that the idea that any language can be culturally neutral depends entirely on context any language can serve either good or evil purposes but a lot of the thrust behind global english at the moment is connected with globalisation with americanisation and with consumerist values so in that sense very definitely just as you said global issues connected with commerce and this congress at the moment is dominated by american interests and other european and

japanese and other conglomerates where the chinese of bought into the same game and who knows where the chinese are taking us ok what i'm glad that's a good point here david what do you think i mean we were talking about being which language is evolving and you mentioned how it is a barrier to or protecting cantonese there but i mean one hundred years from now we may be talking having the same program a different set of characters obviously but how chinese mandarin chinese is invaded the world and how it's either promoted its language or polluted other language we could see people like ourselves you know speaking in a pigeon chinese. well i'm not sure about that i mean i think there's no doubt that mandarin is increasing in importance in the world and more and more people across the world are getting interested in learning it as a foreign language but it's not going to displace english really i can't see that happening for at least another one hundred years or more and i doubt it is going to

happen i think that the world of languages is being rebalance to the moment that's for sure and i think you see there are more important things actually going on in the world and english is implicated in the eye for example in china and most primary school children are learning english now from really quite a young age in the big cities it's as soon as they go into primary school now right across the world this is happening now this means that we have a younger generation going through schools just reaching secondary schools now in some countries like china who are going to be really fairly good english speakers now this the world has never seen this before these already these children these young adults are able to communicate directly to each other we were talking earlier about english army internet they can actually communicate directly to each other in a way that could never have been done before and i think that that is actually for instance contributing to making the world slightly more unstable slightly more

dangerous than before so this friend of english of the global language has many many mentions more than business now the interesting question for me is what if in fifty years time china decides to stop teaching english in schools would it have the clout then to start forcing countries around it to begin with to learn more mandarin start using more minder and i'm gradually turn running out of time indeed we should do a program on the cultural and we wish we could germany of mandarin chinese banks in my case study in paris copenhagen and in hong kong and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time. remember prost are. just some up the kitchen. sisters.

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