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to get. hello and welcome to crossfire thank you to all about the english language continues to flourish is it threatened other languages with one in three people speaking english does this promote western values and with the rise of asia english maintain its a period position in the world. to discuss the language question i'm joined by robert phillips and in copenhagen he is professor emeritus at the copenhagen business school in paris we go to jump on the air he's the author of the book don't speak english parlayed globish and in hong

kong we have david dull he is a distinguished visiting scholar at city university of hong kong and another member of our cross talk team yell on the hunger all right gentlemen this is cross talk we can jump in anytime you want and jump oh i'd like to go to you you have a new i suppose a language or posse language that you're introducing to the world and it's called globalists and how is it different from english and if you could for partly could you answer in globish for us oh there is a english is even meant to be very correct english but it is the recall english like it is a simplified form of he we said this words he would six hundred fifteen thousand words and you know it's not easy surely that's way too much so we may get the most fish and that was fifteen hundred words and the choosing of those words today made use of those words you can express all you need in the world for business purposes or as a tourist so it is in english light but still a great thing that i will give us an example given his example what it sounds like

and what words you like to use go ahead. i made one very easy to tell you in english this is this is not only to being brothers in these are good or worse is mostly comprised of me and my siblings you might understand that if you are in istanbul i want to be all most people will not understand that so if you want to get there listen your cause if you say this is our company top management you don't know what we have mostly and over two hundred my parents and you get the same message across the world are seem very to belong to my limited list and everybody will understand you better so your he trait in terms of understanding we tend to exhibit here if you use decent caring or formulation ok robert if i go to you in copenhagen is this just jibberish bad english. but i think it's very clear that. when you are in the real world you obviously have to communicate as best you can i am worried by the idea that

a simplified form of english like that. isn't it's a bit like mcdonald is asian it's a package version which apparently will give you the satisfaction that you need whereas in the in the real world. people don't really function like that they negotiate meaning they try to pick through and as an educational goal i think they need to be exposed to relinquish as it is used in a whole range of contexts so i'm a bit worried that this is a quick fix in some way whereas learning english you have to be culturally sensitive depending on who you're speaking to which part of the world you are what your goals are it's a much more complex task than what globish claims to be a capable of achieving ok david i mean it's a very good point you know the mcconnell ization of english but that's the trend in the world that everything's getting done alive i think john paul's point is that you if you want to be able to communicate in communicate as best you can and i

think if i'm i should we make it clear i should make it clear to my audience here. this is a this is a kind of class the language of non-native speakers speaking to each other like danes speaking to japanese japanese speaking to koreans and things like that it's not really actually doesn't have anything to do with needed speakers of english i actually agree partly with both robert and john paul here and i think this is not really so much a question of mcdonald eyes ocean as the struggle to communicate in the real world by people who actually have a lot of english but i think it's quite right john paul is actually on to something here and saying that people need some guidance as to how to best ploy the limited resources of the language they have to communicate clearly and this is actually something which perhaps native speakers need to learn about as well so it's not entirely just a matter for non-native speakers ok i'll jump all in if then why not just learn english i think i'm going on line with robert was saying and if you want to use english when if you do speak it properly. we should make clear that there are

additional b.r.d. would be two kinds of english which gives you access to the culture of the anglo-saxon girls here which is immense very each outstanding going from shakespeare to luck wayne and if you like bill gates so this is very internet if you want to enjoy it if you want to or he'd appreciate all the content you need to re an english which for a president me is a life fraught if you want to close the deal in must call. to kill or in c. or. if you speak laypeople speak in venice to excess nursed will kill people who will not understand you and this is no use ovation when i went to japan in one thousand nine hundred ninety four just business decisions i observed some americans are joining me from a came there was a vice president with i.b.m. usa then and i observed that digital japanese there and then the koreans and soon and the chinese in beijing are going to the far east where much better are he's

with me and. understand them better than what i could observe between them and americans and that's why i said we thought we were speaking english we are not we are speaking a different kind of language and a something different so regret is great as concerns how current business is concerned internationally he's not and we had to give you had or the i did to meet wrote the report for the british council which i could extensively in my book and indeed people there are many things which are worse important here one of them is that in ninety six percent of the cases in international communication there is at least one no native english speaker who is involved than it's ever to you needed english speakers to adjust to the river of despair sun or not be as good in worshipping as least because like me could be ok example i mean i can agree with you maybe if you're talking about your childhood or buying a ticket at a train station or ordering in a restaurant or something like that. you bring

a business i mean most businesses you have contracts and you have very specific laws and clauses and things like that this this language can't work without if i go to robert on that i mean it's for chit chat it's just to get you know get through something if it's something you wouldn't sign a contract with using this kind of language it's too imprecise i mean it has nothing to do with english as a school subject where you're trying to equip people to function in a range of ways and i once one of things that worries me about the whole promotion of different types of english worldwide is that the assumption morris is that the only language you need worldwide these days is english you don't get far with english in latin america or even in southern europe or in most of asia so that when for instance danish companies are asked why they have failed to achieve a business deal in japan or in italy they tend to say oh it's because they don't speak english well enough there whereas what companies ought to be doing in order

to trade with japan and italy is to have enough people in their country who can actually function well and understand the culture as well as the language of japan or korea or or italy so that so far as education is concerned it's a totally different ballgame and i agree really with mr bell here that the the idea that you can do complex negotiations with a simplified register is misleading. jumbo you're shaking your head you disagree go ahead. where i'm sorrier thing. illustration because i'm not a native english speaker as you might have released already. so wonderful are different you have the british wrong country. go to me go ahead. you know so i could take there are many people who do that as far as contacts are concerned if you have experience that can have the contacts and constant them from american into english to begin with it's from into u.k. english so that you don't have to do when you're negotiating what you have to do is

discuss what he. wants or your products or your services understand the needs of your customer and you don't need a full english thought that you did you can do it with a limited english providing you for all integral rules you he formulate you use your sentences and you check that your people in front of you are understanding you which most native english speakers don't think you should do then and learning a foreign language to do business in d.c. in a foreign land is valid in any way instance if you are living in destroying lands or used to be you know measure of a set of stoppers or do we define any so as soon as a signed frenchman two hundred company that is the lands he was expected to be able to run and speech in four months so you have to take a guy who's will go into german and english and in four months he was you know if you discuss the scardino schools out in english not in his announcement in the country they don't so that's true but when you are discussing international

business you meet people who are just too good to want to wear language it was going to be some kind of beef and there would be no step back because. part i have my name down in here they could jump here and go to david here i don't put issue on the other foot i mean should native speakers of english maybe delve into this because it'll it'll make it easier for them to communicate with people and then i'm saying just for a limited purposes if you want to go travel around the world as we just it was pointed out in some places and in europe in asia and in south america there's very limited english it wouldn't be a bad idea for native speakers say take a real short course in that and you could get by a lot easier. i'm not i'm all in favor of native speakers being taught how to use their language in a more effective ways when talking to non-native speakers i don't think it actually needs to sort of to learn it's an english light a special kind of english i think it's more about strategies and principles hold for using the language that you already know but i think that we are talking about

different things here and i think that in korea tiley with with robert on this that for ordinary service and characters just doing business so at a low level then find some kind of english like work but that's not how the global economy works chris lee you have multinational companies for example working in a number of different countries you have research or technicians and so on who have to work as a global team and communicating at very high level their subject within that team across the world and that really does mean look everyone has to show a very high level of english i only jump in right here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on what some people call imperialism stay with r.t. . to kick. start . the.

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cluck. cluck cut sister. mother the grandmother welcome back across computable about three mind you we're talking about global languages mum kitchen sisters mothers. but before let's see what foreign languages are most popular among russians. global language over the years has inarguably global status being a language of business culture and diplomacy however english is not the only language used for international relations and communications the united nations for

example has six official languages arabic chinese english french russian and spanish the public opinion polynesian assessed russians knowledge of foreign languages six to seven percent said they speak english twenty percent german and another five percent can speak french though english today has a dominant position other languages are taking a stand so what playing which will the world's future and will we all ever speak the same language peter i usually paul if i go back to you first one of the things i think is interesting is that you actually kind of a weaver maybe correct me if i'm wrong kind of a linguistic nationalist yourself you want to preserve good french ok how do you balance it with globish and being someone that really is a a connoisseur of the french language where people in

france used to be very proud because you can still be dealing with of diplomacy nineteen you have your say which was mostly discussed in english and then from there on french supremacy and people are very happy about it and it was he praised my english for each and every purpose rawness and these would be no turn back because english is now our language which is spoken on the world not very well i was doing very poorly even for researchers of people who seem to have highly vote but it is then i wish we were going to see the common behavior for international communication and there would be no stared back because for the first time in history. the language is war wide and the communication is instantaneous these never have been in the roman times square let you know heat where a community around immediately around him but now this is the case so that we do have gone back and when the french people are disparate about the situation they are wrong french we never get back where did he and as he used to say many years

ago we did any of this we're listening we could go about you know he's the actions this is finished in peace we'll be there but he's going to be the english spoken like by david and peter if we're being be spoken to or meet and it was a people like that and it was a genius think it's a very interesting point if i go to robert on this one here i mean if we look at what the impact of the internet on english and you know you can go to so many websites that purportedly are in english but they're in awful english they're the grammar is awful the spelling examples of word choice is awful the syntax is awful but what is stopping this the name and really i do agree with you before before you know why don't you just learn proper english while the world is this way ahead of us here i mean they're going to use english anyway they want so i mean what direction we go in or can we just can we control it in any way probably not. the internet when it was launched meant that a lot of people felt that this would mean that english would expand at the expense

of other languages in fact there are hundreds of languages used on the internet even very small ones demographically speaking and this means that obviously it's makes a lot of sense in the modern world for anyone to want to have a very high level of proficiency of english the interesting thing for me at least when researching language policy is whether english is being added to people's repertoire which is great or else where the english is replacing other languages and this is where you mention the word imperialism obviously under the soviet system the people of the three baltic states knew what linguistic imperialism was because bilingualism then was a dirty word for basically dropping their own language and shifting into russian and that's exactly what happened in a lot of the colonial world where there was definitely a major focus on colonial languages like like french in english and english does open lots of pools worldwide but one also needs to look at every particular context

and see to what extent it actually closes doors for a large number of people well opening for the few david what do you think about that i mean the imperialism element that i mentioned at the end of the first part of the program i mean it for all of the learning of languages in english is a more predominant one now we'll talk about it later if it's going to stay that way we have to think of a child with chinese but is it is it just is it does it destroy languages that replace the languages because in talking to some of my you know people who work on cross talk you know even when they speak russian the brush is invading their language and they're in russia you know in a working with me and it's all a mixture of speaking of variety of languages even when two of them are throwing in french at the same time i mean is this good or does it or does it matter. what you know i find it very difficult to get sort of terribly worked up about them and i would just look at how the english language came to being a list of mongrel language that we have anyway really sort of current preaching

curative i think that it is true and i absolutely agree with robert but you have to look at particular situations this is a very dangerous area in which to generalize just because there appear to be these big global trends going on that doesn't mean that actually the situation in different countries is not very different particularly in terms of where the languages are actually being injured or perhaps i mean there's an argument to say here in hong kong but the role of english in hong kong is actually helping protect cantonese as a sort of a past in proof against encroaching quote unquote mandarin ok john paul if i can go to you a lot of people in and i want to go into a big discussion here but it is easier is global value free does it have any values because we there's a large a great argument in linguistics that you know it will take the english language for example it has a lot of built in values in it and and

a world view and how to look at values in society it is global. or is it completely devoid of any kind of value in terms of having values. well. being what i call english you know far enough in leash has devalue of being enough and we used this and i didn't say you can say it was easy you want for reasons a duke or president obama's inauguration speech because you don't know websites and would do it in english and say exactly the same thing but if you where heard somewhere into g.q. still ten pounds more people would have to stand it now you know gratian species for americans but nonetheless there are people outside who would like to listen to it and it doesn't what he says without any consideration which is always distorting the meaning so the value is that it is efficient it is not a language at all since and when he did it to communicate it is a tool to be business and in that event it is enough but it doesn't go into values of anglo-saxon culture it isn't qaeda values of democracy doesn't use this is not

the goal new goal is a simple goal as we make it efficient and by the way people who speak good enough english don't have to go to people like you do and they mean it in a david very seldom speak with people who don't speak with english because those words we don't they dare not speak the native english speakers what do you think about that robert i mean is it isn't as i'm glad. i'm really puzzled by that because i think that immigrants like myself i live in denmark all the english is my mother tongue i mean i use four languages every week all the time and clearly once you have learnt several languages there are vast advantages but to go back to your point about whether globish is intrinsically impregnated with the cultural values which english has evolved during its development over fifteen hundred years well i think i would say that very clearly english spread worldwide because of the british empire because of the colonization of america and australia and so on and so this

means that the idea that any language can be culturally neutral depends entirely on context any language can serve either good or evil purposes but a lot of the thrust behind global english at the moment is connected with globalisation with american eyes asian and with consumerist values so in that sense very definitely just as john kerry has just said. he's connected with commerce and this congress at the moment is dominated by american interests and other european and japanese and other conglomerates where the chinese of both into the same game and who knows where the chinese are taking us ok well i'm glad that's a good point here david what do you think i mean we were talking about showing which is evolving and you mentioned how it is a barrier to or protecting cantonese there i mean one hundred years from now we may be talking having the same program or a different set of characters obviously but how chinese mandarin chinese is invaded

the world and how it's either promoted its language or polluted other language we could see people like ourselves you know speaking a pigeon chinese. well i'm not too sure about that i mean i think there's no doubt that mandarin is increasing in importance in the world and more and more people across the world are getting interested in learning it as a foreign language but it's not going to displace english really i can't see that happening for at least another three hundred years or more and i doubt it is going to happen i think the world of languages is being repaired once that that's for sure and i think you see there are more important things actually going on in the world and english is implicated in them and for example in china and most primary school children are learning english now from really quite a young age in the big cities it's as soon as they go into primary school now right across the world this is happening this means that we have

a younger generation going through schools just reaching secondary schools now in some countries like china who are going to be really fairly good english speakers now this the world has never seen this before these already these children these young adults are able to communicate directly to each other we were talking earlier about english on the internet they can actually communicate directly to each other in a way that could never have been done before and i think that that is actually for instance contributing to making the world slightly more unstable slightly more dangerous than before so this fred of english is a global language has many many imply mentions more than just business now the interesting question for me is what if in fifty years time china decides to stop teaching english in schools would it have the clout then to start forcing countries around it begin with to learn more moans or in start using more murder and i'm gradually turning to the right time indeed we should do

a program on the cultural and we wish we could germany of mandarin chinese they so my guess would be in paris copenhagen and in hong kong and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time. remember crosstalk. sooner. or later. they tell marvin here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.

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