we believe that was supposed to go to trade according to the shari'ah is all the problems would be to the truly believe the police themselves the laws itself can shari'a coexist in harmony with western values it's a question people are asking in london and a question people need to ask about a government and posted on the libya. plus what is next for libya and everyone involved we spoke with a former cia agent who questions the end game for the country. america's the greatest country. but it didn't get that we're going to. move over mccain and lieberman there's a new neo con poster boy in town so with conservatives turn to cuban american marco rubio to win over latino votes are they forgetting something say his stance on

immigration. good evening it's wednesday august twenty fourth five pm in washington d.c. i'm lauren lyster and you're watching our team well libya's moammar gadhafi is wanted dead or alive there is a one point six million dollars bounty out on his head he's a large but he did pledge overnight in an address to the nation that he will fight until victory or martyrdom meanwhile though the rebels seized the colonel's compound and rebel leaders are reportedly moving their headquarters to tripoli the question becomes now what will the government look like in a post gadhafi libya and of course who are the rebel leaders that will come to power the national transitional council they say that they are the government that matters they have a bit elected but they did release what is purported to be a draft. constitutional charter on that long line here is

a look at some of it says libya is an independent democratic state where the people are the source of authorities islam is the religion of the state and the principal source of legislation is a law mic juris prudence or shari'a so it's based on sharia law the question becomes is that the kind of democracy president obama had in mind when he said that the u.s. was justified in dropping bombs on the country to back the rebels because of this the united states also strongly supports the universal rights of the libyan people that includes the rights of peaceful assembly free speech the ability of the libyan people to determine their own destiny regardless because we don't know the answer to that question senator john mccain went on t.v. to disprove the idea of surreal law for libya he reported about the transitional council saying this a few months ago. march eleventh of they have issued

a manifesto and i quote is from one sense of it to stay or guarantee the rights and empowerment of women and all legal political economic and cultural spheres i have detected no. effort or motivation to the kenyan national transition council many of whom i know well composure. and yes that is the same mccain there supporting the rebels who mind you to years ago was friendly with gadhafi he met gadhafi at his ranch said he'd shared an interesting meeting with an interesting man it was widely quoted and also promised to help gadhafi get u.s. military hardware as a u.s. partner in the war on terror that is according to us cable just released by wiki leaks which reveals a very friendly meeting now this debate is also not new it harks back to iraq a war an occupation that after the weapons of mass destruction excuse fell through

was justified as part of a global democratic revolution led by the u.s. but what ensued after two thousand and three was a struggle between a rocky desires for shari'a law and an american desire to tone it down in fact in two thousand and three american leaders involved pretty much vetoed a larger incorporation of shari'a into the constitution what eventually came out of it was a constitution that it shrine kind of a blend here's a snippet of what iraq has now islam is the official religion of the state and is a foundation source of legislation no law maybe an acted that contradicts the established provisions of islam but at the same time no law may be enacted that contradicts the principle of democracy so it was a blend but sharia is all there so what does this mean what should we be asking as comparisons are being made now to libya what's going on now and to iraq back in two thousand and three well earlier i spoke with one of the top one hundred modern

thinkers according to foreign policy magazine to get some answers he is a he's a writer an academic and a journalism professor at bard college and i started off our conversation by asking can we expect a repeat in libya because what happened in iraq was an authoritarian regime but a secular one was overthrown and the secular opposition and it going over handing over power to the islamists are going to say the same thing in libya here's what he said. well cisco if i may be on that list of congress intellectuals and honest spoke for this people are going to lamar america does an expert on libya and i think even experts don't really know what the new government is going to be about it so it's all speculation is quite possible you know it's alarmist regime whatever comes out of the back in the end then the one it's replaced the bettors necessarily mean it will be left of crap and it's almost impossible to be less than

the crisis and. then get out ok but but here's a question if syria is enshrined in libya in the constitution in some way is this a threat or a challenge to western values because if you watch fox news you do you don't have to be a genius to pick up on the fact that a lot of people think that's the case if you've got a problem. maybe a problem the question is how it how it's interpreted and how it's incorporated i don't think we're going to notice that the slavic expert or the i don't think that there is a consensus there's not one interpretation should realize there are many countries with your organization it used to react in different ways and. it's a difficult case so it could be basically should readers about particular it's really interesting and i could be a little post being hard grounded in islamic values just as many people

description united states that i'm not one of the law should be and based on christian and how that's done how much room it needs or rights minority rights or you speech and so on and it differs from country to country and so how much precedence to such as free speech and gender equality with some resistance of how to implement you know you brought up an interesting point. you mentioned that you know whether or not people disagree like yourself with it that that u.s. law then u.s. constitution is based on you could argue christian notions and values so is it any surprise that a muslim country majority muslim country would want the same thing for their constitution. prize there is of course a big difference the real threat. secular democracy giver of the world is not value it's

a much broader or religious institution and that's in particular when this institutions. such as the catholic church for example have a real. political base and that's hierarchy. that doesn't really exist in the world there is no islamic there is no source of real religion and so it's hard to see how or rock for it would be a good thing. if. for example freedom of speech would be out of some. religious basis for the values it's already there. ok so saudi authorities so then my question is is there a problem for the united states when the united states calls for democracy and the will of the people in libya to prevail if libya chooses shari'a and chooses that whether it's a blend of the values or the authority isn't that

a mother see if that's what they choose but it would certainly be a problem if it were it is longest go that could be very literal you read and try to impose all kinds of liberal liberals on the country with matrix if it were it would be a threat to democracy is right liberal democracy you know that would not be a good thing in the first place for that so it's. really not a. second place it might be appropriate to the united states west but what problem could it pose to the united states or to the western world well for example if you had an islamist government that was very actively militant anti western. electric big problem in a country that's a major oil supplier. it could be a problem because it weeps abseiling the general climate in a very belligerent middle east and soap so there are potential problems there would

be no more liberal on the border to crack to a country like libya will turn out to be the better leader and go to united states on the other hand it's also very possible to have a democracy which turns out to be anti western and very nationalistic what that could be represents a popular current in the country and it's not it's fantasy or even if it works in the democratic. machine should the u.s. speak out very loudly or get involved to not have it be a government that is anti western because you have made the point that the us going on spreading democracy has got a really bad name after iraq and afghanistan was pretty much a mark received by armed force and certainly there and i think. in the middle east today or anywhere. thank you very much in trucks the less interest

share rooms from the west or better if this is something that they have to sort out . their country they have to find systems that suit and the most of us respond countries in general. in to be directly to shape their future the more likely it is that this will cause great resentment among them to rest and back which which then does what. actually right we have to pay since it was through your computer. a larger percentage of your interest there is newsroom and student. groups whose records and. mischief that was a writer academic and lose professor of democracy human rights and journalism at bard college with that analysis now this is not a conversation that is limited to libya or to iraq or to arab countries this is a conversation in a debate that is going on in western democracies to just look at what's happening

in london archies laura and it covers that take a look. so we are here to tell you that islam. is unstoppable in europe stoning for adultery cutting off hands for stealing death to renouncing islam this group of men is trying to enforce shari'a law in the u.k. they've started a campaign to make certain areas of london and other cities islamic law controlled zones starting with wealth of east london muslims will be kamali good for the evil because i knew some was an alternative to the muslim of the muslim community also looking to believe the muslims and if we gather trade according to the sharia is all the problems of the sharia and even police themselves for logic start hopefully one day try to sum it governments will have apology look at the security locally and you avoid often locally choudhry and his friends are fly posting parts of london with large muslim populations they want to ban drinking gambling and playing

music and they say they've got bands of young men ready to patrol and in full shari'a law by any means now that enforcement will not initially be in on the level of inviting and for being very visible as a biggest of a beast with an essentially evil like pornography prostitution should do so. by that you mean rick of course i believe the pressures that are needed most should be run out of the area these muslim say british society is broken brittle with drugs crime and prostitution because of that they firmly believe members of the communities their targeting will welcome sharia law but the word of the street about the campaign tells a different story comes down so if you don't like the laws of the place you live and my way the law. and all of these things are ok completely legal in this country so this is not indira pakistan this is our own laws people have no rights can here

bring their laws in here well for now because i think what trouble councillor martin isa. griese say this could destroy community cohesion we've. taken down the post assumes that because we do not want these posters round up they do not represent. the they have no place in forest this is an equality campaigners say the shoe real supporters shouldn't be considered a religious movement because of god right political organization with a poster campaign designed to divide and conquer communities the danger lies in dividing people dividing communities creating mistrust and particularly among from non muslims towards moderate muslims i think this is part of their aim is to create mistrust so they can then turn to moderate muslims and say look everyone hates you we're your friend turn to us i'm going to see very very dangerous thing and it's a political tactic to increase their own undeterred by opposition challenge

realtor's group plan what they see is the beginning of an islamic emirate not just of the u.k. all over europe police have mobilized to take these posters down as fast as they appear but choudhry and his group say they formed bands of vigilante and forces to make sure she is here to bubbly all physically and in other parts of london women who've already been harassed for not covering their heads if these muslims ever get their way i won't be able to dress like this on the streets of walthamstow or many other parts of london brussels rome and paris. r.t. well from stone love to so you can hear the question being asked whether we're talking about libya or whether we're talking about western democracies but another question that is being asked that still has not been answered takes us back to libya the reason produce i did states is involvement it's still not answered and congressman dennis kucinich of ohio asks in an article was the cia involved in

planning regime change before protests broke out in benghazi and february. and then did the cia have a role in fomenting a civil war earlier i spoke with journalist and former cia officer jack rice so i asked him if he thinks that the cia could have been playing a role in libya even before this uprising even began here's what he said hold your i.q. let's be honest the cia is involved in every place that they tried to get involved they were at least on the ground in egypt they tried to be on the ground everywhere in every major country in the region in tripoli is one of those places you would have expected to have so to deny it would i think would be naive so i think what it's percentage would assume it is talking about is a reasonable question but i think one of the problems that we have is the u.s. has a very schizophrenia relationship in sort of approach to the middle east in general we talk about democracy and how we're supporting the rebels and how incredibly

important this was to protect human life it's cetera but we need that very soon argument in egypt but that ignores the fact that we supported mubarak for decades as our very closest ally in the region now how do you reconcile that those two i think there's a lot of people in the middle east who are asking that very question today of course i mean it's the same question that comes out in countries like bahrain where the united states has not had the same reaction as a dent to libya where of course there are it's a it's a powerful geo political partner as well as a very important source of oil but libya is a different situation and the united states has had a different relationship with the leader and with that country do you think that regime change was a plan of the united states says earlier on then than what it unfolded to be in this civil war. i think that the broader sense the answer is yes i think if we look at what we found with the arab spring in general when all of a sudden you realized that egypt could saw egypt was going to thaw all of

a sudden it opens up this broader question of what else can change in the region and what else can we change in our favor and let's face it let's never deny that we're the u.s. is the one here is that this isn't about protecting the people of of libya this is about american interests first and foremost we can share and to support we want this is not a left or right question a republican or a democratic question this is an american foreign policy question it's cold blooded is at all the problem that we have and here is reconciling when we say one thing but we turn around and do another and regardless of that hypocrisy doesn't the us realize that this could all backfire on its face i mean i laughed as and i were talking about the that sharia law could be a you know what this ends up which is not something with which the united states would want we see not happen in other countries and yes trouble in iraq so this

could not go the way that the united states wants that leaders have to know that right. oh without question because that's what they're afraid of it's interesting there are a lot of conversations across the diplomatic world right now that the group for booster he just came out this morning and he said it we're do we go next well the first thing we have to do is keep some stability on the ground i'm going to have to work out with all of these twenty something year old kids and there are kids in many cases who wrote to get off this compound and walk out with lots of weaponry on the streets a good get on the streets of tripoli where do you go next to the americans to all of a sudden these guys decide you know what what we need is more shari'a what we need is more than what we saw from get cocky that's the problem how do you reconcile that i haven't had to answer i haven't heard it in three certainly not as of yet it . but we will keep asking that question here on our team that was jack rice

journalist and former cia officer so lawmakers besides mccain which i brought up earlier are putting their two cents in on u.s. involvement in libya florida senator marco rubio for one said that obama did too little too late but what makes us on the her different why do we care well here's one reason the republicans don't even have their candidate for president yet but he is a vice presidential prospect he's getting a lot of air time and attention and just last night he gave a speech in california he got nancy reagan from falling that was what the mainstream media picked up on but here's what we think you need to know ok he's a cuban american senator from florida he's also an ardent defender of american exceptionalism someone who just might be according to analysts the next neo-con in chief taking up the mantle from senators like joseph lieberman and john mccain here's what else you need to know we have it all together kalen ford put it together for you on the republican party's new golden boy. here with us now yahoo is making way and he's the rising star the republican party marco rubio. i want to

market marco you're a troublemaker we're hearing reports that you know to marco rubio senator from florida america's the greatest country in the world but it didn't get that way by accident cuban americans. and neoconservative becoming a world power it was never america's plan but that's exactly what the american economic miracle meter rubio got his start in south florida as one of cuban american congresswoman ileana ross let in an interview he rises in part because. in order to catch her you have to have a policy you know. and so. unexpectedly rice is like well like foam. problem and florida and quickly made the leap from state legislator to u.s. senate and now a billion both his parents struggle as cuban immigrants whether they came here on the mayflower on a slave ship or on an airplane from havana we are all descendants of the men and

women who built here the nation that save the world. owes its comprehensive immigration reform and the dream act talk or maybe the republicans superman but the way he handles immigration is this kryptonite and supports english only law even though he ran his campaign in spanish the fact is that when he ran for senator he was able to advertise in spanish saying i'm an immigrant too and it garnered a fair amount of support rubio represents the hallmarks of the neo conservative movement leveling this criticism of president obama's taxes and wealthy americans it's class warfare and it's the kind of language that you would expect from a leader of a third world country not the president of the united states supporting a strong military america still the only watchman on the wall. and there is still no one to take our place and right senators before him an expensive role abroad

tyrants and always lied about america's intentions because they fear our values our only interest in serious and we hope our people will have the same freedoms we do as well as fewer regulations for big business if we could just get the government to ease up on some of these onerous regulations the american people will take care of the rest because this idea about america being exceptional it's not something i read about in the book rubio's vision has been embraced by tea partiers and new conservatives alike the glories of tissues united states past when everything was in order when when everybody was. genocide no slavery no nothing like that just the founding fathers of the for a moment the stars if only for that's the world in which he lives in those that say oh yes i think two thousand and twelve presidential race heats up america might be

seeing a lot more of senator marco rubio and his platform of big budget cuts in the face of a one point five trillion dollar deficit as well as a continued strong presence for america i brought you in for an artsy washington d.c. . so in that report kalen mentioned how the g.o.p. . has a luring to latino voters so just exactly how do latino voters feel about this senator let's find out community organizer rango chavez is here is actually in our l.a. studio to tell us thank you for being here so my first question to you is do you think that marco rubio could appeal to latino voters. i think you can appeal for a very small group in miami florida but to the masses of the community in the united states absolutely not they guy really need to take a history class on this and know the realities of our communities because it definitely is not good for us interesting you mentioned it in florida him appealing to latinos he won fifty seven percent of the latino vote in florida why do you

think that this wouldn't apply looking more broadly at the country. but i think it's known that you know florida and miami in particular it's a small group of cuban americans who have a really reactionary political line that goes contrary to the rest of the country you have people who are extremely republican who of course have you know sabotage and even pretty much their own their own people under the bus in cuba in order to you know have some kind of political power in miami and i think that the majority of people in the united states simply want to stand for that not only because of issues of immigration you know but the majority latino community is against the war you know there's issues of the economy things that he simply stands completely against our own community and i think that it really speaks to the nature of the system and the profound profound crisis that it's in when the system itself has to use either black or latino people to speak for them to really rescue themselves from the crisis that we know is only getting deeper every every day so it's something that we know he doesn't speak for us and it's something that you know he

will not get the support of the masses of the latino community because he has the support of people like the tea party who are obviously completely against our interest so you're saying that that they keep prices in a key interest here is dealing with immigration because one thing that in his ads that actually karl rove is behind bush strategists is appealing to obama's failure to address unemployment for example. yeah i mean you know this is therefore not something that i'm trying to say that the latino community should advocate for president obama absolutely not he's failed as just as much as the republican party has but you know if you ask me if you're going to vote for this guy who was simply because of his name i'm going to tell you that absolutely not because we know that his name may be spanish he might speak spanish but he really speaks for white power and it's a system that's it's a racist system that has historically you know profited off our off our backs and he's trying to erase history saying that you know whether we came you know slave ships or whether we were here because of other reasons usually race history and also that we're all american and we know that that's not true and the conditions

that our community faces in the attacks that we're facing from the police i mean ration from all these different laws are simply put is in a very different situation so he enjoys his own privilege as a as a cuban american in miami but at the national level he is not respected or even i would say recognized by the majority of the you know community talked about that talk about what you just said his privileges as a cuban american in miami because from what i understand latinas do not identify with cubans because of integration because cubans are treated very differently by the u.s. immigration system than all other latino immigrants virtually can you talk about that. yeah you know our brothers and sisters in cuba you know some in miami have a very extreme right wing agenda that is very different from the majority of our community now that you know the cubans brother and sisters who have made real with us but the ones that favor these types of and take cuba and safe policies really have a lot to gain from this type of marco rubio vice presidential candidate they have

a lot to gain because that gives them power they give them the pedestal to speak against revolutionary cuba which is something that the majority latino community i would say is not in favor of they're not in favor of speaking against cuba so he'd simply does not represent the interests not open only of latinos but of working class people in general that speaks for african-americans whites anyone who was born in this country needs a job needs health care he does not speak for us he speaks for any neat group and i would say maybe why cuban community really does not represent cuba as a whole or that people here in the united states at all and so they don't identify with the way it was explained to me was that the perception is that when a cuban comes to this country they're on a path to citizenship when mexicans come to this country they're on a path to deportation is that the perception in the latino community. there is a perception i don't think is antagonisms against ok brothers sisters because of that we know it's not necessarily their fault it's a good government system it's a law that's immigration laws they really hate us against each other so this is not

against the cuban americans this is against a small group people in miami who are dictating politics based on this extremely reactionary policy against cuba you know these people are most of the people in our community which means that they're not even part of our community this is some that stands totally against those they support everything bush is doing they support all the imperialist wars they don't support immigration reform they are completely couldn't be any more different than the majority of the latino community so not representative of the community or the people that you see as a latino community at all i want to thank you so much for coming on our show and talking about this it's really interesting i want to see what happens and if rubio does take off but thank you ron go ahead he's a community organizer from our los angeles studio and he's going to do it for now but for more on the stories we covered at our dot com slash usa or you tube page it's you tube dot com slash r t america you can follow me on twitter at lauren lester and you can now tune in at seven for a nother show.