in those lines let's stick to our coverage of the ten year milestone since the attacks of nine eleven ten years later the country still finds itself involved in wars started in response in iraq and afghanistan wars in countries such as pakistan the country still also finds itself under an expanded net of domestic surveillance with the patriot act alive and well and allowing law enforcement to search people's phone records or e-mails with much more ease than ten years ago now wars and policies were started in the name of the war on terror under republican president george w. bush but they've continued under democratic president barack obama even though you may not call it the war on terror in speeches officially so what exactly does political party mean when it comes to these supposed issues of national security joining me to talk about this is nicholas he's editor in chief of reason t.v. and reason dot com and co-author of the book the declaration of independence how libertarian politics can fix what's wrong with america thank you so much for being

with us so first i don't know if you heard the story we just did but i want to ask you if you think in this situation where you see the mall of america cops being trained by i.d.f. sergeants and counterterrorism and they send this information on suspicious small patrons to the f.b.i. do you see this as a result of a post nine eleven mentality toward security in america that people have just come to accept. yeah i mean that's a lot of what is the most troubling aspect of the kind of post nine eleven and security compromise is that we've become inert to you know just the idea that of course it makes sense that people are going to be spying on one another and that if places like malls were going to have stepped off irrespective of any actual threats or any any reason to believe that you know the next nine eleven is going to happen on the rollercoaster at the mall of america that it makes sense to have heightened security everywhere is you know it is troubling but it's i also don't think it's surprising and in

a lot of ways the united states weirdly had been one of the lacking in countries throughout throughout europe as well as the rest of the world including least not so nice it doesn't make it good but it does kind of i can understand why do you think it's necessary isn't it that the adequate response ten years later tonight eleven and again i think what what we need to look at nine eleven is what whatever the the fact is is that we have had very overblown reaction both big and small that you know the most obvious over reactions to the nine eleven attacks were not necessarily the initial invasion of afghanistan but what our continuing presence there certainly be invasion of iraq which was completely unrelated to anything going on in nine eleven libya i don't think that we would have been invading libya the way that we did acid nine eleven so those are two just things that when you start looking at the smaller things that affect those on a very daily rival i mean the creation of the transportation security administration a lot of the kind of ongoing violations many of which we will never know the full

extent of the things that sneak and peek warrants and roving wiretap swings like that all of which had been pushed by the clinton administration long before nine eleven then they were they had facts of nine eleven allowed them to become legislative law and then obama who talked about sunsetting some of these thing. everything as in fact just continued exactly doing what george bush on and you know so you see a huge amount of overreaction both big and small or large and foreign and domestic and i think the most impressive thing about this is that none of it is actually tied to any realistic threat. posed to let me really the driving consider it all the money spent but i want to touch on some of these things now know where you are you know there's clearly there are enemies of america there are you know that nine eleven happened you know it's not like that didn't happen so we should just ignore it or anything but we've been spoiled is spending hundreds of billions of dollars

on intelligence operations as well as on foreign you know of foreign policy initiatives and things like that there's no reason to believe that if you know in two thousand or two thousand one of four hundred billion or five hundred billion dollars in defense money can keep us safe from nine eleven literally knowing that i'm out and then making sure that people don't get out of buildings and across america that somehow baskin to make us safer in the threat level has not increased what has happened is the response and we live somewhat i mean it's a low grade fever it's a low grade version of the cold war what we are in a in a different america and one that is not demonstrably safer but it is more and more annoying it is there in the morning especially friday that travels that ten years later my question for you is why do you think you know on capitol hill here in washington when we see so much dispute between parties when they can't pass a budget or raise the debt ceiling because they can't agree how come lawmakers can come together to pass

a an extension of the patriot act as we saw in may which i have on americans right now and you know one thing that was heartening about. the extension of the patriot act is that it was more they were there was at least a debate about it you know ten years after and there were a couple of intermediate steps in there i think the main reason is is twofold one is that. we tend to forget that the security apparatus in the defense industry in america the military industrial complex in the security complex the law enforcement complex this is both bipartisan and hugely powerful and influential these guys and women in this industry have been your legislators when you factor in on top of that a continuing problem among democrats that they're afraid to look we've got crime they're afraid to look weak in terms of foreign diplomacy war and stuff like that they're more than willing to go along and sound tough i mean one of the one of the least reported facts that really should be discussed

a lot especially coming into the two thousand presidential election is that iraq obama's tenure a budget plan you know that he released earlier this year actually over that ten year period increases the fence spending more than paul ryan on the republican budget why is that exactly why do we need to go. from spending about eight hundred billion dollars a year on defense to a billion trillion dollars a year under obama whereas even paul ryan only puts it off at about eight hundred fifty billion and those numbers in the ryan number should be happy as a starting point for serious discussion about getting the pay for when it comes to homeland security that i'm not as i've been the dollars and cents looking frantically that i get it sounds like you're saying a lot of this you believe you would like and translate the money in military that socom like but i would not i would think dollars i mean these are people you know politicians i mean and this is what you know the whole the the role of idiology you know party kind of partisanship is not to reveal the truth but like the real

character at the party says obscure the fact that the republicans and democrats agree on about ninety five percent of everything with you know when they talk about cutting spending and things like that there had really you know there is you know they're haggling over pennies really compared to the large scale of things and the fact of the matter is barack obama campaigned as a work president he you know he. flimsy hand gestures but units of peace care today but what he said there was that i don't believe in stupid wars or and don't worry that he didn't indicate that he thought american foreign policy as it's currently being executed was all right so sorry to cut you off we're out of time i hear what you're saying and that with the continuation of the same it doesn't seem like it's going to end anytime soon. from reason dot com and reason dot the reason t.v. thanks for being here thank you. now or thursday just have show intel is coming out and tonight president obama will deliver his jobs plan to congress but can the obama and can obama and congress actually agree on

a plan that would jump start the sluggish economy or the topic in just a minute. with the mechanisms to do the work to bring justice for accountability. i have every right to know what my government should do if you want to know why i think taxes. i would characterize obama as they care is. what american exceptionalism. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so silly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else hears you some other part of it and realize that everything is or you don't i'm sorry because of.

this number of years that we've been apart. i think. well. we never got to be safe rather. than freedom.

all right guys it's time for show and tell on tonight's program earlier this week alone to discuss the economic and political turmoil which is shaken up the european union but we wanted to know if you think the e.u. will be able to survive all of this and stick around together for years to come let's go to producer patrice in a sense a to find out what you have to say. when it comes to the european union i can now make dependence and political independence have made for a tough relationship and a lot of people are wondering if we couldn't really go on but just the other day a commission president joe say barroso said yes the e.u. will go on he guaranteed it but like any relationship the borders are cheap the

usually comes down to money so while the european countries seem willing to rough it out and hold tight well they succeed or be forced to go their separate ways or will the relationship just have to morph into something different in order to survive while xander said the best solution would be for the us like federalism that would require referendums if it doesn't fly the e.u. will go back to its pretty euro force. david writes i'm great for and living in the u.k. i really really really hope not chris said if we really back into recession then the union would train drastically greasy said it would have to be kicked out of spin from sweden told us people dislike the they feel it is undemocratic meddling in regional regulations so most of you who are funded were not big fans of the e.u. route even went so far as to say it's the biggest gravy train in politics and the political system was essentially stealing from the peoples of fundies lavish lifestyles but when the relationship this complicated and messy had so rocks no one

can afford to live lavish lifestyles yes there is always someone who has the most to lose like germany and then there are those who take a lot like portugal ireland or grits but in the end it's probably better if everyone just gathers around the table and make some tough decisions that will keep everyone together. and as always thanks for your responses and here is our next question for you we just spoke with nickel as you heard him about the five partisan support for the war on terror so we want to know what you think will we see an end to the war on terror in our lifetime or will we just see it's continual expansion you can respond to us on facebook or twitter and on you tube and who knows your response just might make it on the air. all right we shortly right you're about twenty five minutes of my calculation is correct we're going to see president obama give a speech to a joint session of congress to reportedly announce his jobs plan now this just just

today we found out from the bureau of labor statistics more great news that last week oh yeah jobless claims rose more than expected now so far the details of obama's plan to come out are they will call for a three hundred to four hundred billion dollars of spending earth plan you could say this includes an extension of payroll tax cuts state and local aid and first. program some other things too but those are examples also today in washington the joint special committee on deficit reduction held its first meeting to get to work on their job or they came out of the debt ceiling deal they're supposed to cut one point five trillion dollars and governor of this was to find savings and government the budget now also today federal reserve chairman ben bernanke gave a speech and the reaction on the financial blogosphere to paraphrase was no surprise is the markets are still expecting more monetary easing so is any of this good news for the u.s. economy truly for the nine point one percent unemployment or the sluggish g.d.p.

growth which is just one percent joining me is alex however our professor of economics at george mason university research director for the independent institute he also co-writes the blog marginal revolution and we're so grateful to have in your answer these questions for us thanks for being here now i'm sure you've been reading what's been released about obama's expected jobs plan is there anything that makes you think that this will get that stubborn nine percent unemployment rate down. well i think the payroll tax cut is a good idea this is extending the cut and it looks like he's going to also increase it by allowing employers to get part of the cut and i think he's going to do it in a clever way he's going to say small businesses who hire they're going to get a payroll tax cut and he's got to do that because he's got to get republicans on board so of all the taxes republicans have actually not wanted to cut the payroll tax but i think if he puts it on small businesses they're going to have to go along with that as well and that's

a good idea the question though is with all of the gridlock we've seen in washington and again we heard bernanke you speak and urged fiscal policy makers to consider how fragile the economic recovery is when when they return to look at the government's finances and work on a sustainable trajectory. is this the right thing to do to have fiscal policy makers need to solve the economic problems when they've proven so far they really can't well that's true and a lot of people have been saying the fed should do more. little bit surprisingly last night in the debates most of the republicans said they wouldn't rehire overnight he that was the nicest thing they said about him he said they're going to rehire him because he's done too much ghost economists think that he hasn't done enough and in fact he said today he's still got to ammunition and people have been saying well if you've got ammunition surely now's the time to fire so that my question for you is that if the fed does more stimulus in september as the market

seems to expect that it's going to do you think that would be a good or a bad thing. i think it would be a good thing you know people have worried about inflation but inflation is really low right now and we could actually use a little bit of inflation the kind of encourage people to spend a little bit more and to reduce their debt so i think the fed has got some room to move her and they ought to take that room so jeannine and that in quantitative easing is that what you're saying that's right yeah and we three ok. but why what has q.e. two done because even says that small businesses can't get loans twenty six percent of people or so are still underwater on their mortgages. wall street's doing better but but what is going to be generally done well i think quantitative easing has made the situation a little bit better than it otherwise would have but. you know the real worry is if we start to have deflation if we have any deflation and people say oh prices are

going to go down so i'm not going to spend today that would be an absolute disaster and we've hovered around that were about two percent three percent inflation now and actually kicking inflation up a little bit wouldn't harm things and could help things as well but what about the former st louis that official who's saying that that we do risk an astonishing rise in inflation you don't buy when you stand there's no evidence of that so far the bond market right now ten year bonds are running under two percent so there's absolutely no sign that people in the bond market are expecting a big increase in inflation you know when the government could borrow money at two percent for ten years that says that no one's expecting a lot of inflation but is the bond market right because some argue that the bubble and say that this is all been the reaction to all of the global turmoil that we're seeing with europe and the u.s. and the treasury is a flight to safety. it's definitely part of it definitely part of part of it that

is a flight to safety. is the bond market right well who knows they could be wrong but in the gone market people are putting their money where their mouth is they have billions of dollars at stake so i'll take the bond market over any pundits forecast any day all right even mine all right i think you pick up your target market they've been crazy lately though then do you trust among gold some people say that that means the economy is sick that high number for gold is what that's telling people well you know traditionally when times are tough people jump into the gold market. i think people of god potentially a lot of money to lose their it's been going up and up and up and so i myself i'm not in gold but i understand why people in times of trouble rely on it but i wouldn't put my money there so good times of trouble though i watched an interview with you from back in december of two thousand and ten when you were optimistic about the world economy and i'm really curious now with the day after seeing the

u.s. downgraded we see european countries closer to defaulting on their debt. we have unemployment at nine point one percent we're going on two years are you still optimistic about the global economy. so you got me there. yes i'm an optimistic person but certainly over the last few years i've been surprised at how about it has been and most people now the thing that i'm most optimistic about however is over the next twenty thirty years i know people don't want to hear that at this point in time but look china is doing great india is doing great and that is going to help us when china and india they start producing nobel prize winners they start investing in research and development they start coming up with new ideas that's great for us as well so that's my long term view i'm still pretty optimistic in the long term china india i didn't hear the united states and their

what's what's your prediction for where the u.s. is headed then where you know i've got a book coming out of this car garage in the innovation hadassah so i'm glad you us . and i think we've got to do a couple of things you know we do have to think long term our patent system is out of control our education system is not working. you know high school level and below it's it's not as good as it could be our scores are low internationally and in universities you know i hate to tell you this but. we've got people mathematics no one's doing that science no one's doing that engineering you know they're all going on going into journalism well maybe we should tell him to go back and engineering i have a feeling there will be more jobs there but real quickly i just have to ask you you're very smart guy you're an economist if a year ago you were optimistic in your admin that you kind of got it wrong what does that mean about all of the people that are making solutions for this country are they getting it wrong. yeah they're going to wrong i mean there's no there's no

question about that but. we've seen bad news piece of bad news after piece of bad news after bad news i mean started out in the u.s. in the housing sector but now we've seen in europe that the european governments are just loaded on too much debt so we've seen a lot of bad news no question so hopefully we can just fall asleep and dream until twenty and thirty years go to sleep for twenty to thirty years until things improve because clearly they are not yet i appreciate your insight though and good to. talk with you. still ahead here on our c football is more important than attending the president's jobs speech and a lawmaker is making that claim and he is a night school time winner also unhappy our crackdown on public nudity in san francisco plus a dutch woman goes to the extreme to stop her ads my phone will be back in the.

internet only military mechanisms if you don't work to bring justice or accountability. i have the right to know what my government should do if you want to know why i pay taxes. i would characterize obama as a charismatic version of american exceptionalism. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so bleak you think you understand it and then something else here's some other part of it and realized everything you saw you don't i'm trying hard look at the big picture.

let's not forget that we had an apartheid. i think. even one well. we never got that says they're very confused get ready because their freedom.

all right it's time for tonight's tool time award and tonight it goes to senator david vitter the louisiana republican is facing a dilemma tonight should you do is job and attend president obama's jobs on capitol hill or should he hold his n.f.l. kickoff party yeah you heard me correctly his book all party there is torn between attending the job speech are hosting a party to watch the new orleans saints take on the green bay packers on wednesday this was his decision. i'm going to be watching from my family room and every louisiana because i have a saints came forty there and i'm absolutely going to be there for the big game kickoff so the same season in the hall i felt oh my that is ok so you're not going

to jeopardize kickoff you're staying away now she obviously has a saying that i have my priorities. he has his priorities yes he does the writter is of fanatics he's got of priorities that is great to know i am sure the residents of louisiana feel at ease knowing that their elected senator cares more about football than helping them find jobs now better to do is facebook page yesterday to talk about the president's jobs and also how to let everyone know about his party he wrote i will listen to the president's speech tomorrow. carefully for my priority area for job creation who dat nation family and friends are coming over for a big game to recovery and the super bowl who dat nation is a reference i guess to his favorite sports team which i didn't know until now but when news about g.o.p. members of the senate skipping out on this each came out senator majority leader harry reid decided to have some fun and listen to what david vitter posted this

afternoon typical harry reid he's now scheduled votes that should have been held this morning for right before and after the president's speech pens in those who would have kept the speech like me so now i'll miss my own saints game party at home always knew harry was a dirty bird. oh don't worry only strengthens my who dat resolve on of the super bowl so the big question is that are going to just come in and vote and still miss the president's speech nobody knows his office hasn't released that and hasn't taken it to facebook yet but vitter is not the only person boycotting this speech senator jim de mint says he's not attending along with congressman joe walsh ron paul and paul brown in fact brown says he'll be holding a twitter town hall in his office instead of making a trip across the street to the house chamber to see this in person so here's my question for those skipping the president's address tonight congress currently has a fourteen percent job approval rating more than fourteen million people are out of

work in this country so could you lawmakers act like you care at all and at least put in an appearance at least pretend that our government still functions well enough to address the problems facing this country is that too much to ask after all taxpayers are paying your salary and that is all why we are giving the members of congress who are skipping the speech tonight for our two time award including david vitter who is more worried about football than his own job. all right it's time for happy hour and joining me tonight is our t.v. producer jenny churchill and alex siteswap he is a reporter and blogger for think progress dot org all right so i don't know if you guys knew this i actually lived in san francisco and didn't but you are allowed to

be naked anywhere but some locals in san francisco are fired up now over people who actually are actually sizing their rights to bear on. the police chief in san francisco sort of member who was all that there's life you're saying public nudity is illegal only if it's moved in other words only if it's intended for sexual gratification and people are annoyed but it's not what is annoying habit but people benefit is the castro good for some of the new discipline going into restaurants and so they're going for granted in the fog san francisco supervisor scott wiener that's really please the nudity is going too far but it's not a complete cover up it's wonderful to tell want to see before it's at the end of the park. so what do you think is that a fair solution just ask the nudist to lay down a talent they're going to sit on a park bench well apparently the people who have been sitting on these park benches in the bus without putting it out of the breaking some like ancient nudist code it's apparently very well known in the news community that is what you do and what

about just the idea of being nude in the city i mean i don't know we live in a fascist police state where you have to put down before in public like what's next first they come from. very top and then you know we're going around us up and put clothes on all of us i mean it just sounds like a terrible nightmare where you could argue that whatever you leave behind if you're burying all in a public place could infringe on somebody else's civil liberties yes i mean like clomid. i know you can get committee in from a park bench i don't know you can get crabs for sure and write it on the net if it's on line it's your scale but i mean seriously my favorite part about this story is that they pointed out that according to california state law if someone is nude and offending you you can be citizens it's a pretty i want to give way to target it is american citizens around like i have a problem with this and you're going to force need personally to go and arrest the nude person. so it's like it's never been done yet.