thank you very much for your policy charlie mcgrath founder of the wide awake news website thank you. paul meanwhile economic shuffles are also happening across the atlantic a greece has given bags of it there is an almost sixty countries until later today to decide whether they will accept its debt exchange offer athens astroid to cut the deal of the us it gets at least ninety percent participation which would give the country a short cash flow relief efforts to further rescue greece took a hit after athens admitted it won't be able to meet its deficit reduction deadlines. and turkey has vowed to sue e.'s role in the international court over its blockade of gaza it's already cut all military and trade ties with television after it used to apologize for killing nine turks last year they were part of a humanitarian flotilla the tried to break through the blockade and israel had imposed that in two thousand and seven after him asking to power in the palestinian authority turkish prime minister progress that in the future the navy ships traveling to the gaza strip. in egypt crowds are gathering again in cairo's tahrir

square urging interim military rulers to accelerate democratic reforms and announce a concrete hard life for handover to civilian rule there also demanding an end to military trials for civilians but the so-called million man protest is likely to become one of the largest demonstrations is a february our pricing however president of the arab lawyers association far believes is largest groups will ultimately benefit from your guest the various political movements vying for trying to show who is bigger than the i think this demonstration is only the liberals not taking part in it it is accusing the other one of trying to show their power the islamists are not concerned about the election law because well for the election they will definitely get higher votes than the liberals and demonstrations will continue i think the

egyptian people will not accept that the military continue to be in power this by the fact that most of the military as everybody knows are the same team of mubarak they are people who are handpicked by mubarak with the approval of the americans the americans would be happy for the military to stay there but i don't think the egyptian people we don't allow that well russia has not seventy years since the beginning of one of the longest and deadliest cetus in the history of world war two the leningrad lucky i can speak for all of our talk to those few who survived the eight hundred seventy two day nightmare. this is where the blockade began on the eighth of september nineteenth forty one german troops arrived here occupying the city of lethal bird it's the last learn connection to leningrad cutting off the city's supply of food and military equipment. and of course you can watch peter all over his interviews with the survivors in full as always on our website that's our team dot com for now it's time for business with maria.

hello and welcome to business here now in the wake of the plane crash in the present dmitri medvedev has called for widespread reform of the aviation sector although the cause of the design is not yet known the industry has recognised problems such as poor maintenance agent facilities and regulation or part of the overhaul is likely to include a radical reduction and the number of airlines. they raised one hundred thirty lines in russia and out of these one hundred thirty ten executed eighty five percent of transfers so bravely ten it's actually quite a reward and i mean one hundred twenty even more so for this one hundred twenty. three zero actually and then i mean even ten it's quite a lot so there should be probably five to seven airlines in russia three or four really large competing foreign airlines and three.

read you know media really relying on governments of board because regional transfers are not that profitable so this is this team could be should more. let's take a look at the markets with oil prices there are down as investors fear obama's proposed jobs act which is worth more than four hundred billion dollars it's just too little too late to jolt the troubled u.s. economy the w. is trading at eighty seven dollars a barrel while the grant blends is spreading towards one hundred thirty dollars a barrel. over in the u.s. markets open in the red financial stocks suffered the biggest drop after the wall street journal reported that bank of america is considering laying off forty thousand people. european stocks are trading in the red this fall led by losses for carmaker of course following at the late so it's merger with gold so i've been a g.e.

the stock is allowed down seven point seven percent. twelve percent after the company said it discovered oil off the coast of french guy and. then here in moscow it's a similar picture of following the negative sentiment in the european and american markets the arts yes and then why is sex and the threat in such an over two and a half percent let's take a look at some individual share moves on the nice x. . lower after posting a one hundred fifty five percent increase in that profit for the first. eight months of the year and that's all the russian accounting standards will perform. their level of double the market average and bucking the trend was part of this gold on stronger bullion price aleksandr renaissance capital wraps up the works great for us. the really interesting to characterize this week like the first half of the week was the. expectations from the obama speech

the last part of the week just the expectations were very vivid and the market just realized first i actually think that the main event of the week was the three share statement that they will not be resumed rates for a considerable period of time because the the european economy enough to justify it for some period of stability and exactly this was the reason why you will start it put. all the commodities and optimism from u.s. and european markets just. so well that's all the business news for now the headlines are access. to. the.

wealthy british soil but. sometimes the title. market find out. why no one should really happening to the global economy

with mike's culture for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on our. welcome back these are the headlines on our team as logan rebels prepare to storm some of the last broken off and strongholds people in tripoli take comfort from their new rulers as fears of anarchy. drowned out triumphant crowds. as america's decade long war in afghanistan winds down a many of those punished for the atrocities of september eleventh two thousand and one are still unaware of where all of what i don't love it was. the world's eyes talking community grieve the loss of the locomotive team after it was all but wiped out in a plane crash in the russian city of the us level just one squad member survived with many stars of international hockey among those who perished. gyptian is gather

again into their square this time for demanding faster democratic reforms and the handover of power from the military to civilians protesters set to become the biggest since the uprising that toppled mubarak. in moscow is not taking sides over syria saying that there will be no peace through bloodshed and calls of both the rebels and the regime to lay down ourselves or to dialogue. about the next leader labelle discuss discuss how the nine eleven attacks transformed world politics our t's crossed arms of. live. live. live. live. live take a. listen to the thing.

below and welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle the nine eleven decade what has been accomplished what has been lost as america's so-called war on terror made the us in the world a safer place and one of the huge costs and loss of innocent life has it all been worth it live you can. live. to cross-talk america's war on terror i'm joined by david ignatius in washington he's a journalist and author in rochester we have john miller he's a professor at ohio state university and in london we crossed the n.s.a. after katie he is c.e.o. of the cordoba foundation all right gentlemen this is crosstalk that means you can jump in anytime you want and it's i very much encourage it but first let's take a look at some of the questions facing america on this anniversary. this year marks a decade since eleven attacks on the united states as america and the rest of the

world commemorate the day it is the decade of the events that followed which poses the hardest questions and calls for a look back from the passing of the contentious patriot act to the war in afghanistan and iraq the answer to nine eleven has involved a vast effort to root out transnational extremism and shameful president george bush famously coined the war on terror our war on terror. begins with our crowd but it does not end there. it will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found stopped and defeated a decade later the system set up to keep america safe involves more than one thousand government organizations and nearly two thousand private companies specializing in counterterrorism across the united states and this comes with an

unwieldy price tag eighty billion dollars spent in total intelligence gathering last year alone and over one trillion dollars spent so far on the wars in iraq afghanistan and other war on terror operations given the staggering financial costs and america's steadily declining economic power all those weeks the ultimate question has the us achieved the goals that it sought the war on terror has the ability to allow the u.s. to carry out military operations that since two thousand and one have taken the lives of more than a million civilians in iraq and afghanistan now in libya and of course to an escalation of resistance of hatred of revenge and so in terms of keeping the american people safe that's a ridiculous notion but then again since nine eleven america has avoided any large scale attacks on its soil eliminated top al qaeda leaders and enhanced its domestic

security network whether these gains warrant the costs remains to be determined as america draws conclusions and learn some lessons come this anniversary marcia charron a for across our team. and it's in london first entertainers on. fighting this war on terror and still the term is still used and it's what are you thinking about most ten years on is the world a safer place is america safer place. well before i answer that question and not wanting to put a downer on this particular theme i think we ought to avoid falling into the you know the mistake of making out as though the events of ten years ago as tragic and as momentous as they were as being the most tragic events all the most important point about more modern history or indeed the beginning of

history as many politicians in particular within the american administration of past have made out to be nine eleven was indeed a very momentous events because of the implications and because of the implications carried out in the actions carried out. specifically by the american administration what i recall ten years ago peter and i'm sure that most people also recall this there was a particular moment immediately after the fall of the towers when i had the feeling that the entire world almost came together and shared a moment of shock of horror and possibly even support and solidarity that was a moment that if it were captured i think that today would have been talking about an entirely different theme unfortunately a few hours only a few hours after the fall of those towers. we went on i.e. the american administration went on a tangent

a totally different approach and that moment of world solidarity was absolutely scuppered it's very true we would have anger you in washington robert fisk famously said in just a girl from what we just heard is that the americans demand the world know our dates but we don't know we don't know very dates and their tragic history and i'm looking at the new york colonial our experience the north africa has experience for the last century and a half so i mean in reflecting upon you know. down a tangent do you think is that a correct way of looking at it because it sounds like a huge strategic mistake. well i think you can think of nine eleven the as a shock to the in the united states and of the global system that the u.s. was the dominant player and and the shock produced erratic policy that i think most people would conclude did a lot of damage to the united states to its alliances to suddenly become trees

reputation as i look at president obama who inherited the bush years of reaction to nine eleven i've struck by two things first i think obama has tried since he became president to lower the rhetoric you do hear less talk about a war on terror and on differentiated endless struggle against terrorists wherever they are and you do see an effort by obama to work to improve us our alliances the effort to reset as the term as the relationship with with russia i think is one of the significant policies that obama embarked on right at the beginning of his term he knew the u.s. needed more friends than it had and he set out to change policy at so as to get them at the same time that obama has been using i think quieter rhetoric and has been trying to work better with our allies he has been very aggressive in secret in

his attempts to destroy al qaeda the raid on the compound of us or some of that resulted in his death on may second is an example that was a very tough operation it's a decision that george bush might have taken but i've told by people who were close advisors that he might not of obama sharply stepped up the pace of predator drone attacks not just over the tribal areas in pakistan but but and several other countries in addition so i think you have an interesting picture where the. a president who is trying to change the rhetoric the terms of the hard nose reality of this battle against it's it's it's it's it's tougher as well you know if i go to john i mean if the rhetoric has changed but the actions have not so there is not a big difference between obama and bush and a lot of people would say the war on terror to date has not been successful it's

been terribly expensive and it is only hurt the security interests of hundreds of millions of people around the world i mean i think we it's kind of generally accepted there's been some huge strategic mistakes made here but from what we just heard we discontinue go ahead john. yes i basically agree with it it's been a massive misallocation of effort that the the attacks on nine eleven cost perhaps two hundred billion dollars including the loss of life a lot of the buildings and the economic impact from it and that's a great tragedy but since that time the united states has spent increased expenditures on home domestic homeland security expenditures about a trillion dollars and the bay and overseas that the wars are costing several trillion dollars so to speak and of course more americans have died in iraq and then died on nine eleven many less and it seems to come from me as is the most important and most effective counterterrorism strategy is to not overreact some of

the things that david talked about i think are quite useful to me not going after the guys who actually did it with your own zur without drones but much of the rest of the expenditure has basically been simply thrown at the problem without any sensible analysis if you're dealing with the issue of are we safer the way to put it is this of course we're safer we hired some more security guards if you if you built a tsunami wall around moscow moscow would be safer from tsunamis are the question is is that a sensible form of expenditure in the case of the united states the american and americans chance of being killed by a terrorist of any form is about one in three point five million per year and the question then is not are we safer but how much more money do you want to throw up a problem to make that probability even lower and it's something go back to you in london but the way bush preceded and probably to some extent also obama think it wasn't the the war on terror if we can say with that term always going to be

perceived as anti muslim in the arab world because you know we have we have now we have three countries ok we have we have iraq we have afghanistan we have libya ok this is again it's this the perception coming out of washington western capitals is one thing but the perception has always been very different on the ground for the people experiencing these invasions. absolutely and if i may start by coming back toward john just said i absolutely concur with everything he said but on the question of whether we're safer or not i agree with him yes we may be safer because as he put it we hired more guards and more security cameras but actually if you go around and ask people individually they're more scared so it's quite an anomaly of the kind of world that we created we fought this war on terror but we've created even more terror for even more people on a far wider scale whilst the attack was in a particularly small geographical location we've managed to create an impact that

is far reaching to every single inch practically of the world and that is i think where we have gone terribly wrong as i said at the very very beginning there was a moments when we could have actually thought this of horror and ideology of al qaida in a totally different way what we managed to do unfortunately is to actually spread it is that actually recruit for of tide over the past over the past ten years i've said this time and again peter and possibly one time on your program in the past before nine eleven i frequented and prayed it's a mosque where after prayers people would on a rag cell tape sort of sound for about fifty cents and no one would buy immediately after nine eleven he became a hero and though that same tape was going for ten dollars and people would be searching for more we're going to jump in right here with you do a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on nine eleven a decade our stay with her. story

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eleven victims. say you can see the i. even if i go to george bush he pushed his war on terror and it's become very much part of the american. on military establishment is it the war on terror was a another way of promoting democracy we could have a different discussion about it can you invade a country and force democracy out of that's that's one thing but i think the arab spring or the arab awakening release says a lot because you don't need outsiders to invade your country to get rid of dictators if the west would stop promoting dictator dictators in that part of the world people will rise up and they will have their own democracy and so this whole effort of democratization really the people on the ground poor cold water on what george bush and and others tried to do. well i think george bush is a pretty easy whipping boy he's no longer president barack obama faced with

a difficult strategic decision about whether to abandon close to mubarak had been a boil and use for wildlife united states decided that it was appropriate to abandon the egyptian people wanted change and that any american effort to resist that would be inappropriate he got strenuous arguments from close u.s. allies from israel from saudi arabia saying for goodness sakes what are you doing still don't do that and he want to head because he thought it was the right policy so i take a need to be a little bit careful about about about the way you're setting up the question here that our conversation in general reminds me of something we all know which is the theme use the famous a lot of character guards history is best understood backwards but has to be lived forwards in other words. in the immediate aftermath of of can thousand and one which analysis as reminded us was a moment of hope and consolidation nobody really knew what was what was happening

and the it is clear now that the information that the bush white house was receiving was terrified it was the information about chemical or biological attacks attacks on subways this and that and i think it's clear that they overreacted but it is important i think to remember the context in which they were making decisions which was the the fog of the uncertainty of this war in which they suddenly found themselves i think it's taken the united states years now to begin to get a better perspective and to get some balance in this policy and i i do think that's returning. something covers the subject for a lot of i find people with more clarity about about the importance of not going out making enemies and not doing a traditional american style of leadership charging up the hill shouting about a war on terror you don't hear that from president obama for a reason so i guess i would say that. with the with the perspective of

ten years if we learned nothing if we really were just plodding along the same direction. deeply well i think maybe a lot of people of pakistan will probably disagree with that but if i go to you john what do you think it was the united states and its allies just wanted to remake the world in its own image it's almost like a messianic vision of the world we can change being changed entire region with the invasion of one country to have this domino effect and in retrospect and you know i'm used to i was trained as a historian ok i know what history is i mean in retrospect it was just a fool's errand in a lot of people lost their lives and the us is more or less bankrupt itself through this kind of messianic vision and it's still elements of it are still there go ahead john. you know they're still there though i certainly agree with david that the rhetoric has been toned down substantially in general in terms of promotion of

democracy the best thing the united states good as ever done is simply be an example when the revolutions took place in eastern europe after nine hundred eighty nine united states cheered them on and they mostly took place by themselves when latin america became democratic after one hundred seventy five united states again was just sort of in a in a cheering position and also that it made a change changes in east europe in east asia such as in south korea and taiwan with respect to david's point which i think is a very good one about the sort of hysteria that gripped the country great after nine eleven i think is absolutely right there were intelligence estimates at the time that were that there were five thousand al qaeda agents running around loose within the united states now that was basically off by about five thousand in addition people or explore expecting additional. reactions and sources of many nine eleventh's so the initial concern was quite reasonable but after a couple of years you think they start to be some reevaluation and after five years

of this with nothing happening essentially even more so and when bill obama came in i really hope that now that was almost as eight years after that there would be some initial reevaluation but we've still got basically the same policies continuing on i just finished the coauthored book with a scandal as an engineer named mark stewart called terror security and money and we tried to look at these homeland security expenditures and what is coming out of the program homeland security had both before and after the obama administration is continued hype of the threat let me just give you one quick example six months ago the secretary of homeland security janet napolitano held a press conference and she said we now think that the likelihood of a major attack at major coordinated attack like al qaeda like nine eleven is lower however we still have to worry about small disorganized attacks therefore we are more in more danger.