sure than we've ever been before as a we got rid of a big thing we continue no small thing and somehow that makes us more dangerous that's a kind of irresponsible hype that continues to come out of the white house and come and come out of the administration there's still people in your body ministration who are saying they are al-qaeda the pathetic ridiculous al qaeda presents an axis stench of threat to the united states that it will it could potentially destroy a country of three hundred million with a massive g.d.p. cetera and no one ever basically is still known as challenging that preposterous assertion look and ok and it's that you know i think it's really interesting i mean i would agree with you i remember the day the hours and days after the attacks in new york and washington i agree on that point here but nonetheless i mean you can go before that and you can see this neal conn calm perception of the world about what america's role in the world is and that was a there pearl harbor a wonderful opportunity often off the back of

a tragedy and i still see and maybe you know maybe i'm just seeing it in into narrow form here but i still see that mindset there with the arab spring going on now too i mean picking and choosing who you're going to support to mold the geopolitical situation of the region. oh i agree. especially. if if i if i may i mean i agree entirely i i personally believe and please forgive me for being a cynic here but i personally believe that nine eleven the attack and once again as horrific and tragic as it was it was used it was manipulated by those who in their minds had some sort of map it was used justification and till now until now and forgive me every time i mean as i said that moment could have been a unifying moment for the entire world at this moment of time i travel throughout the world and i travel extensively throughout the middle east and nine eleven and fourteen that moment of sympathy has gone and now it's

a very divisive moment and the reason is because the new cons use it as a justification for whatever happened. afterwards but allow me to just comment on what david and john said in terms of toning down the rhetoric on the war on terror during the obama era i welcome that and i hope and i pray for the demise of the neo con ideology the brutal world and growth particularly america to where we are today however we haven't really departed from that moment where still using the very same tactics these ten years we have not only the million lives who we lost but we have countless possibly tens of millions of lives that have been destroyed the thing is someone who's dead may they rest in peace their dead the whose remains are those who are alive still and now see as his enemies and now see seek retribution and revenge for what we did to their loved ones you see we now live in a world that is far more scared form far more at fear from its from its neighbors than we were ten years ago i'm quite intrigued by you know the what david said in

terms of the kind of his syria the following i understand that i absolutely understand that but how is it that we we made this seismic movements from the moments where we allowed those seventeen people to carry out those attacks totally blew. from the security forces to absolute understanding and awareness of the security threat not only in america but the entire world it was a huge huge huge mistake but first ten years of the millennium unfortunately will always be a very very dark era in human history hopefully with the arab spring the second decade of this millennium will be far better ok david you want to jump in there go right ahead well i. i think it's certainly true that the. dark painful one way is the noble in which the world united states of course but i think the big mistake and it's it's not a necessary consequence of the policies that was the invasion of iraq

the invasion of iraq. people tried to link it to the events of september eleventh but the but that the truth as i wrote but the time was that the intelligence was clear there was no operational link between saddam hussein and al qaeda so this this was a war of choice that was conducted as a loss because of the. notion that if you knock down the biggest scariest kater saddam hussein positive change will follow everywhere you know you could make that argument but the bigger problem is that the united states proved incompetent in iraq and going in and stabilizing the country and achieving what it talked about so i think that's been a terrible terrible mistake with consequences that will allow us to stabilize the region as i look to europe spring i'm reminded that the story of what's happening to that part of the world is so much bigger it's just like canvas was dimensions we

forget about and i've been writing about their world for thirty years now i will serve it up the story is going to have a happy ending it may not have a happy ending the next ten years it certainly hasn't in the last ten years but it's a process that i think people could take or we're almost out of time john and i can i can almost i mean i want to ask john john do you think the united states will go go to war out of choice again in the name of fighting terrorism no. no i think when i disagree with some of the things you comment you made earlier i think it's over there is probably going to be an iraq syndrome in afghanistan syndrome because people seem to realize that david is right about what he's been saying and that means the emphasis on this is let's not do that again present in polls repeatedly over the last few years the percentage of people saying we should let the world go away and not all right john i'm going to have to jump in here with really no time for gentlemen many thanks to my guests today in washington rochester and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk we'll.

see.

tonight on r t is libyan rebels prepared to storm some of the last program alfie strongholds people in tripoli take no comfort from the new rulers as fears of anarchy drown out for drives. a desperate spark the u.k.'s national rides as a funeral processions held people are still questioning whether he was a victim of police brutality also tonight. do we know where it is even if we don't know sort of its guns because you're a former neighbor heard about it here of the world the world as america's decade long war in afghanistan winds died many of those punished for the atrocities of september the eleventh two thousand and one are still unaware of where or what not to leaven the war.

welcome this is r.t. it's eight pm now here in moscow going to go in and first tonight fighting continues in libya as rebel forces prepare to storm to the remaining strongholds held by progress duffy forces loyalists holed up in the towns of certain bani walid have been given until saturday now to surrender however they vowed to resist despite the deadline gadhafi himself earlier released and all your message claiming he hasn't fled and he'll never flees home despite reports of the supporters across the border into neighboring the country's capital tripoli fell to rebels last month but there's no sign of life improving their presence is rare for national reports next there's just as much fear on the streets as there is joy in victory.

as city celebrates for more than ten days the even capital has been rejoining in the dictator's fall where the way he wanted to bring his orchard here in the central square players who for the second anniversary report are fried instead we were so happy without him. that it seems in the last two weeks rebel fighters have tried hundreds of the air to her shot during this whole country for a girl i'll just. show you be a fino is very very bored. this will get healthy when it is gadhafi is victor thought. he told older people love me or the people of me no you see love him and of course we're out of freedom and we're going to get that big and we're done all right with a lawyer care but away from jubilant crowds we meet those who are not so pleased i put a man lives in tripoli as i was leaving district historically pro khadafi when the

rebels arrived his sister was badly injured she's still in hospital in tunisia i'm going to one doesn't want to show his face on camera and seized on a hidden location for the interview he says revolution has brought much fear in its wake. there is no peace there is no safety in the city we don't let our children when it's dark we are afraid we always wait for something bad i'm good everyone is here at least we didn't have to sleep a wink what we do know. the rahman says he also want to change and a brighter future for his country but not base way i love gene and people are dying on both sides of the cities destroyed and no one cares do they seriously think that we changed it for the better don't you so just look around is that what you wanted and what is around is a scene of widespread destruction and social chaos the badly damaged buildings

matched by the rising stink of garbage and decomposing bodies youngsters roam the streets barely old enough to understand that's what they carry our weapons not toys many shops schools and hospitals are closed while the cities symmetries a growing bigger and bigger. shortly after tripoli fell into rebel hands the national transitional council live is new authority claimed it was moving here from benghazi but weeks have passed and there is still no sign of its presence on the ground zero order being restored the city is functioning by fell and treading a fine line between freedom and allocate. read national t.v. tearfully leave here. soon to come on the program tonight a repeat scenario of libya not unfolding in syria moscow refuses to take sides over

damascus saying peace through bloodshed isn't the answer and is calling on both the rebels are the regime to lay down arms and turn to dialogue more of that folding in developing story ahead. also the world's eyes security grieves the loss of lokomotiv team with many international stars after it was all white plane crash in the russian city of heroes earlier this week. and president barbara bell says half a trillion dollar jobs that accompany price warnings is no time left for political bickering got live comment on that coming up for you two. funerals been held in london for the man whose death triggered a wave of violent riots across the u.k. father of four mark duggan was shot dead during a police operation back in august are reports. it is in mourning today as the funeral of mark takes place you will remember. this area.

recently marksman at the beginning of august. riots which started here in the. area spread to other parts of london and then eventually to the rest of the country leading to a large amount of civil unrest which the government and police are still reeling from the funerals being attended by round about a thousand people too many to fit inside this church and interesting the police presence here today is incredibly low key. there are hardly any police here that all dressed in their normal uniforms no riot gear no new aggressive policing whatsoever. community that has a deep mistrust of police which is only been intensified by the shooting if there is an inquiry underway into what happened to cause his death but there have been no results so far and the funeral is an important turning point people are still asking what actually happened people in this community also asking where is the mini cab driver who was supposed to have been driving at the time when he was shot

he hasn't appeared in the public. people here are not sure whether he's being questioned by police there is quite a tense atmosphere here people are worried about the effect of the police on that community particularly welcoming to the media a little bit of a hard time when we went to the estates where mr duncan and his family lived but the. place is a very very respectful affair and that's how the community here want to keep it but they still have questions that need answering about what happened to mr duncan why was he shot by police marksman what were the events that led up to his death and those are questions which they have no answers. it was a vent that stunned the world that even a decade on leaves few people moved the repercussions of nine eleven a still being felt today in the form of the now maligned war on terror and yet it seems for the majority of people who bore the brunt of the world's fury in the

aftermath of the attacks nine eleven is just another day and i'm place reports from afghanistan. helmand in southern afghanistan is the province that's borne the brunt of the fighting between the taliban and coalition forces. would afghans in this province think about nine eleven and its consequences. while on patrol with the marines i get a first opportunity to ask a couple of young afghan men what they know about nine eleven but those who will go to. war with us here. never heard of ideas. and to us that they know where it is we don't know so that's god because we are former we never heard about anything else about the world to guard more talking. to young men including nine eleven. maybe the elders of the local sure would have more to say you know you see you. just can see the smoke on the buildings and that's

a that's only thing i can say is when you guys show this picture. i think that was a call what if i just got here i would been surprised but having been here now for six months this is probably a stone ages where we are what other reactions i felt so there was a guy who said it was kabul was clearly never been a cult and he just shows you how isolated they are even in their own country to go to them on what i want to. do you know you're going to. get a sense come to this going to get the airplane from here to the united states you know how much. good it was nice to go from iraq to that here is a lot easier to understand you know why you're here in d.c. at that picture it was good picture myself because. she actually took this position where you form a committee right. to back. up what we're doing is i'm going to make and saying we're going to help you to decide one funding and do this or ask how many funding

and this is going to help you where is the hand. down with the missing to give it to our kids. into book writing and they do it for their own kids in a paper that i don't indeed and. i do sympathize you understand what some are saying it's even just from the weather we've had recently people losing their homes and nobody to help them so when you when you can't feed yourself for yourself are you to care about somebody you have six thousand miles away. so i can understand if this is over the top of the if you've never thought yes was questions of anybody here that's why we're here amazingly in a country with ten years of war is being fought with nine eleven as its root cause and justification it turns out not only with the villagers oblivious to nine eleven but still with the afghan police and even some of the translators working with the u.s. military if you go there with this sort of you know i have no idea of the series of the others in the. survey taken in twenty ten by the international council on

security and development found that ninety two percent of afghan men in helmand and other afghan provinces had no idea what nine eleven was and with american troops that start with during this year it seems likely that they will leave afghanistan without the vast majority of afghans never having really understood why they came in the first place and puts from afghanistan for a team. that is sort of the afghan people it seems to have no idea why the u.s. invaded their home country americans themselves don't understand the point of the war that's the view of peter hart from the national media watch group fair based in new york. but i think united states has made substantial efforts to. sort of conventional propaganda in afghanistan to explain the u.s. occupation of the war there it's not working out he says that reaching a lot of people and i think you know we're we're less worried here about what taliban propaganda can do this way or that way then with what the u.s. media establishment can do they have

a difficult time convincing americans that the war makes sense at this point it makes perf. it's perfectly logical that afghans have no idea why american troops are there so i think if anything we share this kind of befuddlement the war must continue and must go on he it's a we have a media system in this country that i think echoes an amplifies state power instead of questioning it and if we had i think serious reporting from afghanistan that talk afghans people might feel some sympathy toward them and wonder what exactly the point of the war is right now. the world's ice hockey community remains in mourning with the loss of almost the entire lokomotiv team after their plane crashed here in russia on wednesday forty three people died when he at forty two crashed on takeoff in the city. people also gathered in prague to remember three czech nationals who are among the many top players killed hundreds have been laying flowers and chanting the names of the former world champions in their memory

candles have also been lit it precious love a stadium to remember the ones who are back in die the two countries national coaches have also spoken about the tragedy. because. i worked in your islam i had the best time of my career that this past screener let loose with all those people by the same plane but it is a huge shock if your team in all super city told work travel was a great person and a great hockey player he was a legend and slow like ice hockey sometime in february or maine exterior i was still trying to convince him to return back to the national team because it's hard even to talk about we've lost players in their prime but with the hard core of the national team i knew them very well even though they were playing abroad still they were always trying to get better they can and you just want to be part of a system we want to know the details of their positions and how to get school but took a huge interest in what they did i really enjoyed working with them. and with burns

to ninety percent of his body the only surviving locomotive player on the plane alexander got leave off remain conscious after the crash and insisted on seeing his relatives now tonight the place still in intensive care is condition still critical but there's also another player who didn't get on that plane after being told to stay behind by the coach that day on our web site r.t. dot com you can read all about the full story of maksim says yep it. it is but this is very terrifying for me the hockey team is like a family i got lost it was a movie of the people people i was close to for such a long time as well and then the belarusian capital minsk were the locomotive team was heading on that fateful flight a special commemoration ceremonies been held to thousands of fans packed into the stadium to remember those who perished in wednesday's disaster.

and look into the preliminary results from flight recorders of a tragic flight which suggests the engines were intact at the time of the catastrophe these c.c.t.v. pictures here capture the moment a huge ball of smoke rises into the air as the plane burst into flames there is more of that again online tonight at r.t. dot com. president barack obama has presented his much anticipated jobs act to congress the ambitious program aims to reverse the country's struggling unemployment statistics it also calls for almost half a trillion dollars in funding and came with a blunt warning to republicans to stop the political circus and pass the measures for more on what that will mean then for america's embattled unemployed let's talk to larry burns who directs the council of affairs mr burns thanks for being on the program i'm going to big part of the president's plan seems to be tax breaks for businesses that start talk about that first of all should we but of course thinking that one through taking into account that so many people are unemployed therefore spending less money very little money and in many cases what incentives to

companies have to expand the role of these tax breaks going to achieve. well they're meant to be an inducement they're meant to be encourage meant to take the rebates and the money but otherwise we're squirreled away in bank accounts and put that money to work you know the only problem is that this was tried before and the tax abatement program. took place on a number of months ago and it really didn't work but as a large number of jobs were not created in fact in the recent quarter almost no new jobs were created so we've been astray shewn is. trying a little bit so a technique to see to it that they can generate cash flow and monetary

a cavity but i really think administration tries doesn't work and other republicans certainly are not encouraged to be of any help to the overcrowded could ministration because they would like to see president obama. on his face because this would lessen the likelihood that. the president would win reelection in the next presidential race so this is a very very tricky situation larry what do you make of his monologue it is a kind of all or nothing and i was needed in the end the way that he presented his plan i mean considering the hostility between the republicans in congress and the president but we saw things to do. well. it's a very tricky strategy the republicans are following that is they. the president may be successful in pinning on them the label of caring more for their

short term personal political goals and for the good of the nation and. know about hasn't happened yet and obama hasn't been successful in eluding. his present situation where he's a grossly unpopular president is unpopularity cresap all the time so much of this is not fair and clearly the republicans are trying to take. in the very opportunistic fashion trying to take advantage of obama's flight. but we don't know how the situation is going to turn out. right now the polls indicate . it's a very unpopular president and his unpopularity is increasing. the other big question mark errol course looking at these plans the big part of the job crisis in

the u.s. is the fight of the manufacturing industry to greener pastures of course thinking china i mean the mighty seven and valleys offshore much of its production lately how does all this out how is it possible to set up twenty odd million jobs without a thriving industry is in a chicken and egg situation. yes very much so but i think that the historians of this period will indicate that the real deal and in terms of the u.s. job history was all bill clinton. because it was president clinton who advocated not. which was tireless lead promoted by clinton. what he did really was to republican eyes the democratic party and to kate in many of the democratic virtues as seen by the u.s. business community. that where normally republican position

but what we had was that. these free trade agreements which course the united states millions of manufacturing jobs turned out to be not so much a win win situation but a win lose situation depending upon where you were in the job spectrum and american industry which had certain protection certain guarantees and like medical payment and pension plans surely the worker in chad a didn't have this kind of protection and naturally these jobs cost more then they would if the same job was bestowed upon in a country that didn't have the modern. incentives that are can be found in the united states this cost millions of jobs and so what turned out to be nice mostly

a win win situation turned out to be a win lose situation with the corporations being the main winners larissa makes and workers the losers so just in point she brought up bass good to have you on the program a five out of time five a thank you spent on out saying larry pattis director of the kind of stuff i'm starting to. thanks for joining us there from washington d.c. . russia will send a fact finding mission to syria to get firsthand information on the situation there the city was announced by the country's presidential envoy to africa margelov following his meeting with a delegation of syrian opposition leaders here in moscow and they blame president bashar al assad for the political deadlock in syria right now saying he's making the same fatal mistakes as libya's embattled leader colonel gadhafi moscow of a promise to do its very best to avert a libyan scenario in syria telling both sides of the conflict that it's time to move from the battlefield now to the negotiating table president very have made this position very clear in his latest interview at.