troubling unemployment statistics right now and also calls for almost half a trillion dollars in funding and it came with a blunt warning to republicans to stop the political circus and pass the measures or more of what that will mean for america's embattled employees let's culture no jail celebrities the publisher of the trends journal carol good to see you on the program tonight there's not been much political reaction to the speech is there international markets though did all edge downwards after it what's your take on his plan to get america back to work let's have some comment from you. well you said it when obama said it was political circus and he's the ringmaster if anybody watched that you could wonder how any self respecting adult could have any respect for these politicians jumping up and down and clapping like trained seals that every two bit lawing all this speech was is obama's campaign speech on one and you have the republicans that want to cut back in title means that

anything going to the people bringing our stary measures and obama promising empty promises look they threw their best shot at it when they had all of the bush's talk rove gramm obama's stimulus the federal reserve and some sixteen trillion dollars in stimulus back to a loans etc and they couldn't create jobs they're not going to create jobs now this is just an empty plan of a lot of rhetoric course is also the issue of the half trillion dollar price to go with this plan this is the america really afford the gavel so much money on something that may or may not crucially how do you think the ball is going to tolerate america's cash printing presses we know what you think what about them well you're going to start seeing it more and more in the gold prices as well and it's not only the american problem it's the european problem they're all facing the same measures and they're looking for politicians to come up with the answers and i

just cannot a blue believe that adults keep buying this baloney i mean look listen to what obama said one of the things he's going to give business a tax break quote it will provide a jolt to one of common me that is stalled and give companies confidence that if they invest in higher they will be customers for their products and services let's make this really clear obama has never worked a day in his lie. he's been on the public golf ever starting as a social worker and working his way up to a president that's not the way to. the business man i don't hire people unless i have business they can give me all the tax breaks i want this is just empty talk you're going to see the world financial markets go into meltdown there's no end in sight again this is nothing but more political circus zero if you would have put

a business plan together if you were going to try and sort this out what would you do is the role of who are also what should have been done what is the missing link a what is it that the u.s. needs to get back to growth. well obama said he wants to create infrastructure jobs perfect but they creating them in the wrong place is he creating them in afghanistan here rebuilding iraq now they're going to be rebuilding libya which simple is the way to solve this cutback on these the nass of wars and defense spending and repatriate the money number one and then listen to what else obama wants to do he wants to open up more free trade pacts oh great export war jobs all this sees why don't you export americans over to china panama indonesia and vietnam to do them so we have to re train should we have to stop these trade agreements

that are raping america all of its resources both mental and natural so there are ways of really doing it but they're not going to do it they're all there ways of doing it hey how about this one who have the nate up the term too big to fail let the big scale just stop making the american taxpayer bail him out i'm afraid we could talk about this all night but our time is up to the publisher of the trends journal and bolts of brecht's of the tribes the search of switching your a busy we thank you for making the time to be on this channel thank you now in a few minutes time people of ellen discuss talk over the group legacy of nine eleven a lot to come about that of course over the next couple of days that's off the business mix there with marie. hello and welcome to business here are seeing now in the wake of the plane crash of a president meeting with it has called for widespread reform of the aviation sector

although the cause of the disaster is not yet known the industry has recognized problems such as poor maintenance asian facilities and weak regulation wrote parts of the overhaul is likely to include every article reduction and the number of airlines. one hundred thirty airlines in russia and out of this one hundred thirty town execute eighty five percent of all transfers so bravely tell me it's actually quite an award and i need one hundred twenty even more so first before this one hundred twenty go to zero actually and then i mean even ten it's quite a lot so there should be probably five to seven airlines in russia three or four of the really wide compete in b. is foreign airlines and the. regional media really relying on government support because regional transfers are not there profitable so this is this team to reach fruition more. or less like a look at the markets now all as their owners investors fear obama's proposed jobs

act worth more than four hundred billion dollars is just too little too late to drop the troubled u.s. economy. now let's take a look at the u.s. markets they are in the red financial stocks suffered the biggest drop after the wall street journal reported that bank of america is considering laying off forty thousand people over in europe saw some of the day deep in the red light while losses for carmaker forestalling have delayed so it's merger with a g.e. and the stock was seven point seven percent lower. and here in moscow it was a similar picture fall in the negative sentiment in the european and american markets the arts yes and the my sex and of the trade recession over two and a half percent down. and that's all the time we have this hour the headlines are next with kevin.

more news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images the world

has been seeing from the streets of canada. showing corporations to rule the day. this is our team's national from moscow a very good evening for me because you know in our top stories the deaths which sparked the u.k.'s national riots as a funeral processions held people still questioning whether he was a victim of police brutality. moscow's not taking sides of a serious saying will be no peace through bloodshed and calls on both the rebels and the regime to lay down arms in terms of dialogue. gyptian gather again and tyreese square this time demanding faster democratic reforms and a handover of power from the military to civilian approaches to separate from the biggest since the uprising the parish. president obama unveils his half

a trillion dollar jobs act accompanied by stern warnings there was no time for political bickering. just fifteen seconds away from people of els later showed his guest tonight discuss the nine eleven attacks transform the world's politics. live. live live. live you can. listen to the link. below and welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle and nine eleven decade what has been accomplished what has been lost as america's so-called war on terror maybe u.s. in the world

a safer place and one of the huge costs and loss of innocent life has it all been worth it live like a king. live. to cross-talk america's war on terror i'm joined by david ignatius in washington he's a journalist and author and rochester we have john miller he's a professor at ohio state university and in london we crossed the n.s.a. i took a plea he is c.e.o. of the cordoba foundation all right gentlemen this is crosstalk that means you can jump in anytime you want and it's i very much encourage it but first let's take a look at some of the questions facing america on this anniversary. this year marks a decade since al qaeda september eleventh attacks on the united states as america and the rest of the world commemorate the day it is the decade of the events that followed which poses the hardest questions and calls for a look back from the passing of the contentious patriot act to the war in afghanistan and iraq the answer to nine eleven has involved

a vast effort to root out transnational extremism and shameful president george bush famously coined the war on terror our war on terror. begins with al qaida but it does not end there. it will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found stopped and defeated a decade later the system set up to keep america safe involves more than one thousand government organizations and nearly two thousand private companies specializing in counterterrorism across the united states and this comes with a number of the price tag eighty billion dollars spent in total intelligence gathering last year alone and over one trillion dollars spent so far on the wars in iraq afghanistan and other war on terror operations given the staggering financial costs and america's steadily declining economic power all of this makes the

ultimate question has the us achieved the goals that it sought the war on terror has the ability to allow the u.s. to carry out military operations that sense two goals and one of taking the lives of more than a million civilians in iraq and afghanistan now in libya and of course that leads to an escalation of resistance of hatred of revenge and so in terms of keeping the american people safe that's a ridiculous notion but then again since nine eleven america has avoided any large scale attacks on its soil eliminated top al qaeda leaders and enhanced its domestic security network whether these gains warrant the costs remains to be determined as america draws conclusions and learn some lessons come this anniversary marcia chardonnay for across the uk our team. and us from london

first an attorney resign. fighting this war on terror and still the term is still used and it's what are you thinking about most ten years on is the world a safer place is america safer place. well before i answer that question or not wanting to put a downer on this particular theme i think we ought to avoid falling into the you know the the mistake of making out as though the events of ten years ago as tragic and as momentous as they were as being the most tragic events all the most important point of our more modern history or indeed the beginning of history as many politicians and particularly within the american administration of past have made out to be nine eleven was indeed a very momentous events because of the implications and because of the implications

carried out in the actions carried out. specifically by the american administration what's high record ten years ago peter and i'm sure that most people also recall this there was a particular moment immediately after the fall of the towers when i had the feeling that the entire world almost came together and shared a moment of shock of horror and possibly even support and solidarity that was a moment that if it were captured i think they would have been talking about an entirely different theme unfortunately a few hours only a few hours after the fall of those towers we went on i.e. the american administration went on a tangent a totally different approach and that moment of world solidarity was absolutely scuppered it's very clearly defined are you in washington robert fisk famously said in this to go from what we just heard is that the americans demand the world know our dates but we don't we don't know their dates and their tragic history and i'm

looking at the neocolonial our experience in north africa is experience for the last century and a half so i mean in reflecting upon you know. a tangent you think is actually a correct way of looking at it because it sounds like a huge strategic mistake. well i think you can think of nine eleven that as a shock to be in a united states into the global system that the u.s. was the dominant player and and the shock produced erratic policy and that i think most people would conclude that a lot of damage to the united states to its own why answers to certainly the country's reputation as i look at president obama who inherited the bush years of reaction tonight a lot and i was struck by two things first i think obama has tried since he became president to lower the rhetoric you do hear less talk about

a war on terror and under french aided and less struggle against terrorists wherever they are and you do see an effort by obama to work to improve us our alliances the effort to reset as the term has a relationship with with russia i think is one of the significant policies that obama embarked on right at the beginning of his term he knew the u.s. needed more friends than it had and he said that change policy so as to get that at the same time that obama has been using i think quieter rhetoric and has been trying to work better with allies he has been very aggressive in secret in his attempts to destroy. the raid on me compound of us osama bin laden that resulted in his death on may second as an example that was a very tough operation it's

a decision that george bush might have taken but i've been told by people who were close advisors that he might not of obama sharply stepped up the pace of predator drone attacks not just over the tribal areas in pakistan but but in several other countries in addition so i think you have an interesting picture where there. president who is trying to change the rhetoric with terms of. hard nosed reality. it's it's it's tougher well if i go to john i mean if the rhetoric has changed but their actions have not so there is not a big difference between obama and bush and a lot of people would say the war on terror to date has not been successful it's been terribly expensive and it is only hurt the security interests of hundreds of millions of people around the world i mean i think we've it's kind of generally accepted there's been some huge strategic mistakes made here but from what we just heard to discontinue go ahead john. yes i basically agree with that it's been

a massive misallocation of effort that the attacks on nine eleven cost perhaps two hundred billion dollars including the loss of life a lot of the buildings and the economic impact from it and that's a great tragedy but since that time the united states has spent increased expenditures on home domestic homeland security expenditures about a trillion dollars and the bait and overseas that go into wars are costing several trillion dollars so to speak and of course more americans have died in iraq and then died on nine eleven one lesson that seems to come from this is the most important and most effective counterterrorism strategy is to not overreact some of the things that david talked about i think are quite useful i mean like going after the guys who actually get it with your owns or without drones but much of the rest of the expenditure is basically being simply thrown at the problem without any sensible analysis if you're dealing with the issue of are we safer or the way to

put it is this of course we're safer we hired some more security guards if you if you built a tsunami wall around moscow moscow would be safer from tsunamis now the question is is that a sensible form of expenditure in the case of the united states the american and american chance of being killed by a terrorist of any form is about one in three point five million per year and the question then is not are we safer but how much more money do you want to throw at the problem to make that probability even lower and it's available to you in london the way bush preceded and probably to some extent also obama isn't it wasn't the the war on terror if we can say with that term always going to be perceived as anti muslim in the arab world because you know we have we have now we have three countries ok we have we have iraq we have afghanistan we have libya ok and this is again it's this perception coming out of washington western capitals is one thing

but the perception has always been very different on the ground for the people experiencing these invasions. absolutely if i may start by coming back toward john just said i absolutely concur with everything he said but on the question of whether we're safer or not i agree with him yes we may be safer because as he put it we hired more guards and more security cameras but actually if you go around ask people individually they're more scared so it's quite an anomaly of the kind of world that we've created we've fought this war on terror but we've created even more terrifying even more people on a far wider scale whilst the attack was in a particularly small geographical location we've managed to create an impact that is far reaching every single inch practically of the world and that is i think where we have gone terribly wrong as i said at the very beginning there was a moment when we could have actually thought this of horan's ideology of al qaida

in a totally different way what we managed to do unfortunately is to actually spread it is to actually recruit for al qaeda over the past over the past ten years i've said this time and again peter possibly one time on your program in the past before nine eleven i frequented and prayed at a mosque where after prayers people would on a rag sell tapes for them for about fifty cents and no one would buy immediately after nine eleven he became a hero and though that same tape was going for ten dollars and people would be searching for more we're going to jump in right here you do a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and nine eleven a decade ago today with her. story . and. if you want to.

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who threw stones on team dot com. can still. come across talk i'm going to mind you we're talking about the nine eleven debt you . can. start. maybe if i go to you george bush he pushed his war on terror and it's become very much part of the american political and military establishment is that the war on terror was a per day another way of promoting democracy we could have a different discussion about it can you invade a country and force democracy out of that's that's one thing but i think the arab spring or the arab awakening release says a lot because you don't need outsiders to invade your country. get rid of dictators

if west would stop promoting dictatorship dictators in that part of the world people will rise up and they will have their own democracy and so this whole effort of democratization really the people on the ground pour cold water on what george bush and and others tried to do. well i think george bush is a pretty easy whipping boy he's no longer president barack obama faced with a difficult strategic decision about whether to abandon close to mubarak would been a while and useful while life united states decided that it was appropriate to abandon him that the egyptian people want to change and that any american effort to resist that would be inappropriate it got strenuous arguments from close u.s. allies from israel from saudi arabia saying for goodness sakes what are you doing to not do that and he went ahead because he thought it was the right policy so i think you need to be a little bit careful about. the way you're setting up the question here our

conversation in general reminds me of something we all know which is the did use the famous line of character guards history is best understood backwards but has to be lived forwards in other words. in the immediate aftermath of two thousand and one which analysis has reminded us was a moment of hope and consolidation nobody really knew what was what was happening and the it is clear now that the information that the bush white house was receiving was terrifying was the information about chemical or biological attacks attacks on subways this and that and i think it's clear that they overreacted but it is important i think to remember the context in which they were making decisions which was the fog of the uncertainty of this war in which they suddenly found themselves i think it's taken the united states years now to begin to get a better perspective and to get some balance in this policy and i i do think that's

returning. some he covers the subject up while i find people with more clarity about the importance of not going out making enemies that not doing a traditional american style of leadership charging up the hill shouting about a war on terror you don't hear that from president obama for a reason so i guess i would say that. with the with the perspective of ten years if we learn nothing we really were just plodding along in the same direction. well i think maybe a lot of people of pakistan would probably disagree with that but if i go to you john what do you think it was the united states and its allies just wanted to remake the world in its own image it's almost like a messianic vision of the world we can change we change an entire region with the invasion of one country to have this domino effect and in retrospect and you know

i'm used to i was a trained as a historian ok i know what history is i mean in retrospect it was just a fool's errand in a lot of people lost their lives and the us is more or less bankrupt itself through this kind of messianic vision and it's still elements of it are still there go ahead john. you know they're still there though i certainly agree with david at the rhetoric has been toned down substantially in general in terms of promotion of democracy the best thing the united states going to has ever done is simply be an example when the euro the lucian's took place in eastern europe after one thousand nine hundred ninety nine states cheered them on the it made mostly took place by themselves in latin america became democratic after nine hundred seventy five united states again it was just sort of it and cheering position and also the immediate change changes in east europe and in east asia such as in south korea and in taiwan with respect to david's point which i think is very good one about the sort of hysteria that gripped the country great after nine eleven i think is absolutely right there were intelligence estimates at the time that were that there

were five thousand al qaeda agents running around loose within the united states now that was basically off by about five thousand in addition people or explore expecting additional. reactions in terms of many nine eleventh's so the initial concern was quite quite reasonable but after a couple of years you'd think i'd start to be some reevaluation and after five years of this with nothing happening essentially and even more so and when bill obama came in i really hope that now that was almost as eight years after that there would be some initial reevaluation but we still got basically the same policies continuing on i just finished a coauthored book with it by risk analysts an engineer named mark stewart called terror security and money and we tried to look at these homeland security expenditures and what is coming out of the department of homeland security had both before and after the obama administration and its continued height of the threat

let me just give you one quick example six months ago the secretary of homeland security janet napolitano held a press conference and she said we now think that the likelihood of a major attack a coordinated attack like al qaeda like nine. eleven is lower how literally still have to worry about small disorganized attacks therefore we are more in more danger than we've ever been before as a we got rid of a big thing we continue to small thing and somehow that makes us more dangerous that's a kind of a responsible hype that continues to come out of the white house and coming from out of the administration there's still people in the obama administration who are saying that al qaeda the pathetic ridiculous al qaeda presents an excess stench of threat to the united states that it will it could potentially destroy a country of three hundred million with a massive g.d.p. cetera and no one ever basically still.