is challenging that preposterous assertion look and ok and i said you know i think it's really interesting i mean i would agree with you i remember the the the hours and days after the attacks in new york and washington i agree on that point here but nonetheless i mean you can go before that and you can see this neal come on he'll come perception of the world about what america's role in the world is and that was over there pearl harbor a wonderful opportunity i fell off the back of a tragedy and i still see it and maybe you know maybe i'm just seeing it in in too narrow a form here but i still see that mindset there with the arab spring going on now to i mean picking and choosing who you're going to support to mold the geopolitical situation of the region. i agree. ok let them express and then you go ahead. if if i if i may i mean i agree entirely i i personally believe and please forgive me for being a cynic here but i personally believe that nine eleven the attack and once again as

horrific and tragic as it was it was used it was manipulated by those who in their minds had some sort of math it was used justification and till now till now and forgive me every time i mean as i said that moment could have been a unifying moment for the entire world at this moment of time i travel throughout the world and i travel extensively throughout the middle east nine eleven and fourteen that moment of sympathy has gone and now it's a very divisive moment and the reason is because the new cons use it as a justification for whatever happened. afterwards but allow me to just comment on what david and john said in terms of toning down the rhetoric on the war on terror during the obama era i welcome that and i hope and pray for the demise of the neo con ideology that brought the world and brought particularly america to where we are today however we haven't really departed from that moment where still using the very same tactics these ten years we have not only the million lives or so we lost but we have countless possibly tens of millions of lives that have been destroyed

the thing is someone who's dead may they rest in peace they're dead but whose remains are those who are alive still and now see as his enemies and now see seek retribution and revenge for what we did to their loved ones you see we now live in a world that is far more scared former far more at fear from itself from its neighbors than we were ten years ago i'm quite intrigued by you know the what david said in terms of the kind of his syria the followed i understand that i absolutely understand that but why how is it that we we made this seismic movements from the moments where we allowed those seventeen people to carry out those attacks totally oblivion from the security forces to absolute understanding and awareness of the security. a threat not only in america but the entire world it was a huge huge huge mistake the first ten years of the millennium unfortunately will always be a very very dark era in human history hopefully with the arab spring the second

decade of this millennium will be far better ok david you want to jump in there go right ahead well i. i think it's it's certainly true that the last ten years or in four ways that nobody least of all in the states could have anticipated i think the big mistake and it's it's not a necessary consequence of the policies that brian levin was the invasion of iraq the invasion of iraq. people tried to link it to the events of september eleventh but the truth is i wrote with the time was that the intelligence was clear there was no operational lank between saddam hussein and al-qaeda so this this was a war of choice that was conducted as an us because of the. notion that if you knock down the biggest scariest dictator saddam hussein with a positive change will follow everywhere you know you could make that argument but

the bigger problem is that the united states proved incompetent in iraq and going in and stabilizing the country and achieving what it talked about so i think that's been a terrible terrible mistake with consequences that will will destabilize the region as i look at the arab spring i'm reminded that the story of what's happening to that part of the world is so much bigger it's just like and us whose dimensions we forget about and i've been writing about the arab world for thirty years now and i was serving up this story is going to have a happy ending it may not have a happy ending the next ten years it certainly has the last ten years but it's a process that i think people can click right we're almost out of time john i can i can almost i comment i want to ask john john do you think the united states will go to war out of choice again in the name of fighting terrorism no. no i think when i disagree with some of the things you comment you made earlier i think it's over there is probably going to be an iraq syndrome in afghanistan syndrome because people realize that david is right about what he's been saying and the main

emphasis on this is let's not do that again the president in polls repeatedly over the last eight years the percentage of people saying we should let the world go away and not all right john i'm going to jump in here brother and i'm going to mean many thanks to my guests today and launched in rochester and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk rules. and. see.

mr bill this bill passes jobs bill pass this bill after sounding like a broken record i guess we know what the president wants but is obama really the man with a plan for the economy or was this job speech just a bid to secure his job security. we don't most of it's close because your former neighbor heard about it because the brother we're. not even anything about nine eleven we'll take you to afghanistan where many civilians have no idea why the u.s. invaded their country. but it's not just countries the u.s. attacked after nine eleven the personal freedoms came under fire as well so in

a post nine eleven world our assault on human rights now considered annoying. and let's not forget about libya even though it seems the mainstream media so in the wake of revolution is there any sign of surrender. there it's friday september ninth four pm in washington d.c. and christine for sound you're watching our t.v. . well i want to start off as afternoon with a look at the impacts of nine eleven ten years later ask anyone in america why we went to war in afghanistan and most will say one thing the terrorist attacks of nine eleven but how many people in afghanistan know why american troops are in their country well last year a report from the international council on security and development came out but basically showed that ninety two percent of those surveyed had never heard of the

attacks on u.s. soil and on september eleventh two thousand and one there were also illustrated that four in ten afghans that's nearly half believe that the u.s. is in their country. one of two reasons either to occupy afghanistan or to destroy islam and that's the right ten years later is it possible that the vast majority of a country that has been forever changed has no idea about what sparked its invasion the longest war in american history well british journalist adam plots wondered the same thing he is in afghanistan and has this report. helmand in southern afghanistan is the province of those who are the brunt of the fighting between the taliban and coalition forces what would afghans in this war torn problems think about nine eleven and its consequences. while on patrol with the marines i get a first opportunity to ask a couple of young afghan men what they know about nine eleven but this year we're going to. hear. from the son of

a few more and tell us they know where it is even we don't know if that's because because your former neighborhood about the world to guard more stuff from. the two young men and clearly never heard of nine eleven. but maybe the elders of the local sure would have more to say you know you see. this thing i just can see the smoke from the buildings and that's it that's something i can see it when you go sure the speak sure but i think there was a car if i just got here i would be surprised but having been here now for six months it's primitive stone age is where we are and what about the reactions. so there was a guy who said it was kabul clearly never because. it just shows you how isolated they are even in their own country the mama don't want to look like i'm the only thing i would. think you know you think america is and come to this point and they

get the airplane from here to the united states and you know how much power to. all of those nice to go from iraq to that here is a lot easier to understand you know why you're here in greece and you have that if you go to good picture myself it's better to see afghans looking at it in this context while wearing a uniform if you're in the right. set you back that was. doing them a concern we're going to help you to discern one building and the distress how many buildings and those who are going to help you where is the help. you wake up with when this thing they do to our kids are going to fighting and they do it to their own kids in a paper that i don't indeed and. i do sympathize or understand what you're some were saying it's even just from the weather we've had recently people whose new homes are nobody to help them so you know when you have when you can feed yourself the earth how yourself are you going to care about somebody you know six thousand miles away. so i can understand what this is all about over the top of that if you

could i never thought to ask those questions of. anybody here that's why we're here amazingly in a country where for ten years a war has been fought with nine eleven as its root cause and justification it turns out not only with abilities of libya's tonight so with the afghan police and even some of the translators working with the u.s. military if you don't know the history of this it. might be able to say that you haven't seen these pictures before. the survey taken in twenty ten by the international council on security and development found that ninety two percent of afghan men intelligence and other afghan provinces had no idea what nine eleven was with american troops that start with during this year it seems likely that they will leave afghanistan without the vast majority of afghans ever having really understood why they came in the first place adam puts from afghanistan for it see. so that's the view from the ground in afghanistan what about the way in which things have changed here in the united states i'm just out of tubes but actual

policies that have been implemented to deal with the threat and the new face of reality how have those policies contributed to a safer world with fewer terrorists or do you more people than ever worry that the u.s. has more enemies than before are you correspondent arena part i examined that part of the story and this report. ten years ago america was blocked by unprecedented terror. nearly three thousand innocent lives were lost in a forced nine eleven world was born. our war on terror. begins with. what it does not in their. it will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found stopped and defeated washington's military reach began with behind some of bin ladin america

strikes afghanistan as only with bombs and missiles from the air and then a preemptive pounding into iraq. in the decade that followed america's fight for freedom has been stated by torture secret detention and rendition human rights violations symbolized by landmarks like guantanamo bay grade and the bob graham air base prison we had garnered the empathy not only of the world but the muslim world and if we had the courage to be vulnerable. we would be far safer and more secure than we are today instead we drank deep from that very dark licks or of nationalism journalist in office chris hedges says america's terror unleashed the out the middle east has opened a pandora's box of evil estimates are over a million iraqi kids since the invasion. you know hundreds and hundreds of

civilians killed in pakistan thousands killed in afghanistan not to mention millions of people displaced in the refugee camps i mean the terror that we have unleashed will not go on. it is and it will strike us eventual however in a post nine eleven america citizens have been forced to compromise their freedom in the name of security the past decade has paved the way for new state practices such as warrantless wiretapping intrusive airport screening and greater authority for law enforcement what some call a police state in the making as this national security state grows as it becomes easier for the government to know this guys us in all aspects of our lives i think that we're. we worried about this the issue here is larger than just the specific isolated workers it is in the ether that is all around us

much of it may be right here at home for people in our own country. since nine eleven a rising tide of islamophobia has passed through this formerly tolerant nation according to the f.b.i. the poor man intended to carry out their plan today dozens of muslim americans have been arrested and convicted in so-called f.b.i. oil terror plots plots that were orchestrated and manufactured by government paid informants these cases have been created by the government and yet we're supposed to feel safer because criminals that would not have come up with the plot had it not been brought to them on a platter by the u.s. government are now in jail and we have you know snowballed to a pile and that's going on around the world only raise more hatred only raise more bad feelings only reinforced many narratives their kind of violence and the narrative of american imperialism around the world and we i think we've created

more enemies than friends you know we targeted communities are making them partners not only has it not made us any safer i think that it has undermined you know the very fabric of american society the fabric of a post nine eleven america the united states has conducted an operation that killed osama bin laden the leader of al kut still what you do in the name of freedom america's campaign against terror began as a personal strike but in the ten years that followed a military say yes or no and then he turned thirty around the world the man behind nine eleven may have been captured but international safety and yet he delivered marina for nine artsy the. all right some some really important angles to look at from this human rights violations are taking place in abundance freedoms for americans that have been cut back and yet there are

a whole lot of people unsure about how and what we have achieved investigative journalist as well as the guantanamo files and the worthington is here in our in london rather and joins us now to discuss. the hey there and a whole lot to talk about i know you spent some time ago on tom obey certainly that is a significant place that has gone through significant changes post nine eleven i want to get your take on where this country is ten years later. well it's just a master really isn't it we have a whole load of problematic legacy issues are really left by the bush administration which the obama administration has found very difficult to deal with when time is the most obvious kind of icon of that here's a prison where soldiers were not held the soldiers terrorists were not held as criminals people are held as enemy combatants without rights president obama has found it that will close it remains a unique and offensive way of holding people nobody else who claims to be

a civilized country does so we're left with that we're left with a legacy i thought i was a brilliant report about afghanistan where people in afghanistan don't even know what it's about it's part of ten years on we have a kind of confusion that we had an invasion of afghanistan looking for terrorists and also looking to close down the taliban so you have a military fight on the one hand you have the terrorists on the other hand she became confused we are enemy combatants we have a war on terror we just have a mess of confusion and we still haven't sorted them out let me ask you this just because you brought up the initial report that we showed the reporter on the ground actually showing photographs of the towers falling to you know regular farmers people who live in afghanistan. granted that certainly a lot of them probably haven't heard of it even if they had even if they have been told or had seen a television once it's not really in their best interest andy to admit that they've

heard of it i just want to know what you say. well i mean i suppose i could see that happening but i think you know maybe some people were taking that point of view but it seems to me there are a lot of people in rural afghanistan who don't have access to the internet and then have access to the global media. grayness airing out about this you know it's. a clash of different parts of the world different perceptions you know want to huge power up again something i wasn't there to stand in the sense that. the united states supposed to be after the terrorists who did this and yet they tied in with an invasion and occupation of the country where you know what the united states to do say need to go in afghanistan to the taliban and to finding kill bin laden and to break out is a very different thing from a ten year ok patient when the initial fall of the taliban was a long time ago the time since the taliban have come back to the narrative i think

in afghanistan where to a lot of afghan people it doesn't make sense but being live there being defended from themselves. i think it's really important to to bring you know specific examples of this i found an article about a school in the northern bhagwan province in afghanistan that was destroyed by ice that the international security assistance force in an operation against the taliban now this is what the article says the article says you know local students then had to study outside of the skin the scorching sun ever since the school was bombs and the headmaster says that the school was built with government support of a great effort but the foreigners destroyed it and that nearly fifteen hundred students including boys and girls had attended it that all the furniture of the documents the stationery burned to ashes in his eyes after attack and yet this school hasn't been rebuilt so you hear stories about this and it makes you wonder how this country will ever find support of broad when those kind of things happen

and what do you think about that. well absolutely i mean you know i think those kind of things happen in war they're happening occupation the wrong targets but you know we've got a very very long history of this happening you know i have to go and tell him a storage room i remember reading five years ago the story of a man in afghanistan wrongly did he said look i don't mind you having me if i misspoke you have to understand i have my relatives back i have dozens of family members they will be very angry for what i have hundreds of family extended relatives all the people in my area will be very angry with you for what you've done the battle for hearts and minds i think was lost very early on but they're trying to paint. the same thing in iraq i don't think that the further it goes on do you ever get that back i don't think it's possible to get that back so incidents

like the bombing of the school and the civilian casualties that we hear about they just had to you know an increasing problem with the alienation of the very people that you claim to be there to help in the first place when will. these was really going to go on forever and you know and you brought up an interesting point you said you know this is. president obama you said has had a really difficult time closing i know on the campaign trail he certainly knew a lot less than you know now but he said i want one time of a shutdown from your research and your time spent what do you think has been the most difficult thing for president obama to shut down guantanamo bay. well you know on one hand he lacked a certain amount of courage he should have been pushed to send things like bringing clear we get a person that the united states for example even muslims from china xinjiang province they can go if they feel the risk in the united states even under president bush saying look we got the wrong guys but he backs down on bringing. the

country. in a real step back then when having said that the republican party that he's up against up against those words and sentiment is a win win for them and they can play the fake dick cheney was so good at promoting in the first place they are the most negative campaigning republicans that i recall ever seeing and then chosen to attack him on this. you know between his lack of courage i think it's fair to say and they're incredibly cynical tracking politics on the other hand we reached a situation on the tenth anniversary of nine eleven where going to animal cannot be even though remains in the combination it really remains a stain on america's reputation and that's you know that's a disgraceful position to be and yet and yet i've got to bring this up you know a popular argument by those in favor of these wars that the u.s. has gotten in since nine eleven you know despite the interrogation and everything

that we've seen going on a possible argument of people saying you know what we haven't been attacked since have we so something must be working toward the interrogation methods guantanamo bay it must be doing something right what do you say to those people. well i would say that you can't really establish that that's the case you can't say that there was ever going to be anything else if you look at the history of what happened after nine eleven knows obviously a fear of another attack now you know at the same time i've seen i've seen interrogation details of people talking about what happened who talked about you know they were lucky to get away with one big attack it wasn't like there was a production and there was more coming it was the most horrible extraordinary thing that happened that subsided and two thousand and one and i think what happened afterwards despite what people like dick cheney say that there was no major plots you know and then the and them and arabs have changed what happened was the stories had to be come up with to justify the invasion of iraq when there was never any connection between al qaeda and iraq in the first place

a gigantic distraction that monstrous illegal invasion a waste of time so i mean that's taken as a way from where we should have been so you know i don't think that i don't think it's happened has actually fading into a position whereby it's helped to keep us safe certainly in terms of inflaming opposition abroad in terms of being in iraq in attracting people let's fight in terms of inspiring jihadist opposition i think it's been a disaster area and it's something that you know president obama and his team have tried to maintain is that this is counterproductive for us it makes us less safe. perry very interesting insight there thank you so much after weighing in from london investigative journalist also author of the guantanamo files and he worthington. switching gears now to jobs and the economy and this is one issue that just about anyone whether they're republican or democrat and independent will tell you you know these are the most important issues and also the most significant challenge challenges that the u.s.

faces as a country it's the reason president obama called a joint session of congress and made a rousing speech last night laying out what he calls the american jobs act now the nuts and bolts of this plan include the creation of more jobs for construction workers teachers that's right and the long term unemployed the president says he also wants to provide a tax break for companies who hire new workers and that he wants to cut payroll taxes in half for every working american and every small business he says it will also be paid for and if you missed it we have a highlight reel i guess you could call it take a look i'm sending this congress a plan that you should pass right away pass this jobs bill this this bill passes jobs bill pass this bill. pass this jobs bill this is jobs bill pasted the way. they should pass it why do what you should pass it again right away . on the way this is jobs bill this is jobs bill

this is jobs bill. you should pass it what this is jobs bill you should pass this jobs plan right away all right you've got the house john boehner talking about his golf game you've got obama saying pass this bill and of course that was also representative elijah cummings we saw sleeping what will happen next we don't know but i do want to talk to max fred wolf economist for the new school he's in our new york studios about some of the actual things that were laid out in this plan regarding the american jobs act. four hundred forty seven billion dollars and max i want to get your thoughts just first on the feasibility of this in other words is this a pipe dream or is this realistic from an economic perspective this is a fairly moderate play and most of what's in it has been tried and it's.