up next on the show from our washington studio and today we're looking at america's response to nine eleven the chances of greece defaulting on its debts and other top stories making international news was a day of that on the show up next here. welcome to the lower show we'll get the real headlines with none of the mercy for to me live in washington d.c. now tonight we're going to ask if a taste of real ism is still not allowed we're talking about nine eleven in our country's response to it paul krugman called post nine eleven shameful donald rumsfeld of all people called quinn's remarks repugnant and even canceled his subscription to the new york times so why are we back to this then some say the chance of a greek default or up to ninety eight percent of our investors suffering from a relying on bailout mentality and i'm sure we've heard

a lot about the evils of illegal immigration at tonight's republican tea party debate but what about illegal immigration let's have a talk about this important group of job creation we have all that and more for you to night including a dose of happy hour but first let's take a look at the mainstream media has decided to miss. now over the weekend we saw a violent attack take place in afghanistan that injured seventy seven u.s. soldiers so in response the mainstream media once again decided to remember that hey we're war. patella been screaming responsibility for a massive explosion that injured seventy seven u.s. troops a suicide truck bomber attempts to kill as many american troops as possible a massive truck bomb rocked a u.s. military base in afghanistan over the weekend the insurgents the taliban were trying to send a message on the eve of the nine eleven anniversary taliban a suicide bomber brought a truck full of explosives to the perimeter of

a combat outpost. and now not only is a sign of the continued bad state of the war in afghanistan despite the fact that we've been there for almost ten years now and have a troop presence of one hundred thousand it's also one of those pathetic reminders and the mainstream media doesn't care about of the less there is a big shock and awe story such as this then suddenly it's worth it to put reporters on the ground to actually take time out of the partisan bickering in washington and report on conflict violence and report on real world effects of our war on terror but he's you and i both know that up and so rarely what is the percentage of coverage of the media devoted to the war in afghanistan last year oh yeah a measly four percent but here's what really gets me is that even when they do decide to turn their glance to the wars again they still act surprise surprise at the war still going on the momentum that our military officials talk about isn't real and of course they might throw in a few lines pandering to the military industrial complex about how this they guess

must justify the endless war on terror because the threat of terrorism is so so real and well then they move on what they forget of course is that the war in afghanistan is unwinnable what they forget is that this war isn't just enough ghana stan the pakistan is a major part and of course our own actions affected as well our own continuous occupation of countries our own drone strikes that take civilian lives and turn populations against us and so let's put this little tidbit of information that we all know the cia has an ever expanding drone program they just don't talk about it we've talked about the fact of the cia has in fact become a killing machine instead of judge. an intelligence gathering agency but the mainstream media conveniently ignored that story too so what a shock but they also ignored a ruling from a federal judge last friday and the cia gets to continue not having to release any records related to its use of drones to kill in afghanistan pakistan and elsewhere and the a.c.l.u. brought this lawsuit but the judge there rejected the notion that lethal drones are

really involved in acquiring intelligence too so if there's some intelligence acquiring going on then the cia gets to stay out of the reach of all scrutiny all legal bounds who cares if they're killing people it's for intelligence so more money spent more drone strikes are launched more lives are taken all without anybody anybody able to hold the cia accountable and that's actually thinks now to the courts in this country but that's what the mainstream media chooses to miss because they'd rather keep getting surprised that there are wars going on out there . and yesterday was a day of mourning and more realisation for americans remembering the three thousand victims of the attacks on september eleventh of two thousand and one we heard a lot of heartfelt stories a lot of inspiring words but we also saw some journalists pundits public personalities take the time to reflect on the negative the poor reactions that we've had as a country and the exploitation of it by some politicians but apparently the latter

that's not allowed take for example paul krugman from the new york times he wrote what happened after nine eleven and i think even people on the right know this whether they admit it or not was deeply shameful the atrocity should have been a unifying event but instead it became a wedge issue fake heroes like bernie kerik rudy giuliani and yes george w. bush raced to cash in on the whore and then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neo cons wanted to fight for all the wrong reasons now when i say that that type of rhetoric isn't allowed i mean that every right wing news website and blog went ballistic today over that statement and even former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld had something to say he tweeted this morning after reading crewman's repugnant piece on nine eleven i cancelled my subscription to the new york times this. so are we really still at that point or perhaps returning to it where realism isn't allowed and any any critique is labelled as unpatriotic or discuss this with me is jim hansen retired special operations master sergeant and

military blogger at black dot net thanks so much for being here tonight pleasure now for starters and we'll get into the reactions but let's get your take on what it is that current wrote today do you think that there is some shame in the way that people reacted afterwards in the way that some politicians capitalized on it in the way that nine eleven was used to get us into a war in iraq that really had nothing to do with nine eleven ok let's go with the first half i think there was definite shame involved with the reaction some people had in see the west bank of palestine where they were dancing in the streets over those deaths and i think there was some shame in what rick krugman said because he is a repugnant individual i was stunned that rumsfeld still had a subscription to the new york times that was me too i was a little because rumsfeld has critique the new york times so many times over the years for reporting on some of the atrocities that were committed during the bush administration and he even considered it treasonous of the new york times to report on these things so why do you still have a subscription kind of bob everybody comedy relief i think is ironic to be honest there have been some acts in post nine eleven america that i think honestly are

kind of shameful and i think that the fake new york times releasing this. as part of that let's get to the answer now do you do you accept that using nine eleven as one of the justifications to go to. the main reason i thought he was it we can do we were convinced still that they had. everything was convinced because. that was tenuous at best and was used as at most tangential what was the number one reason for going to war in iraq was that saddam hussein refused to show that he had gotten rid of his weapons of mass destruction and the programs that support he wouldn't let us do proper inspections and consequently when a guy standing there who shot his neighbor he says no i threw my gun away but he said it was on behind his but i think it's reasonable. question whether or not to get rid of them if you think it's completely reasonable though to launch a war based on false information when really it was just a couple of the mistakes did there's a huge difference you keep people who say it will you know you launch

a war if you're not one hundred percent sure of the information who wasn't sure look at the brits look at the french look at all our friends everybody agree the democrats republicans everybody agreed that saddam was a threat everybody agreed that it was horrible and now you even have intelligence we have former administration was saying that it was wrong and they wished they hadn't done that because they want to roll a stick with it but that's not you and i are doing is we're having a debate people get things wrong and people get to debate so why do we hear this outrage now this is very much like what we saw leading up to the war in iraq right because there was a lot of opposition and if you dare oppose going into war in iraq then that was considered treasonous things you weren't a patriot and now we have the exact same thing if people want to be realistic about nine eleven post nine eleven america if they want to critiques of the moves that everyone's made like paul krugman suddenly that's totally not allowed either going to happen i one hundred percent support to be an idiot on the pages of new york times and he did it now he's paying the price just because someone says i'm not

going to write him in at work late by does he have to pay a price because what he said was an idiotic and false repugnant i think that's a great word repugnant it was heinous it was agreed as i think i might be it is a wonderful world to see donald rumsfeld himself so so interesting the use that as long as we put krugman on the same side of whatever repugnancy first of all i don't know why they gave him a nobel prize i'm not an economist but i know paul krugman knows less than anybody i can think of about foreign policy so to take his opinion value it more than say one of the theater critics who write the other up ads for the new york times is. a pretty partisan too about politicians like rudy giuliani that definitely did use the nine eleven momentum for all that it was worth but i also want to talk about something that the president said yesterday because of course we had a lot of speeches a lot of commemoration going on and some inspiring words but some words that i think deserve a little bit of critique let's take a listen. our character as a nation has not changed our faith. in god

and in each other that has not changed these past ten years of shown that america does not give in to fear. i one hundred percent disagree that america does not give in to fear what would you call the last ten years and some of the responses including some of the wars including the assault on our civil liberties t.s.a. scanners the fact that now we can't even try people we have to indefinitely detain them because we're too afraid to actually have be counted for our torture so we can bring them into court on what it wasn't until he saw the fact that now we can bring detainees from guantanamo bay on to u.s. soil because what we learned is that i have a good model for not going to try people there when i knew that's going to be no european country terrorism excuse me terrorism trials on there so there's been no problem we've had trials on our own soil there's been no problem that is fear there is a. i don't want

a ghost of johnny cochran come down and saying oh it's the scarf doesn't fit we must acquit i don't think that's a good idea i think the president's correct we haven't let fear define us in the last ten years i would disagree with the word fear i'd say paybacks america they started it the bad guys took a beating though i think whether or not we've achieved the goal of killing al qaeda that's a question it's a difficult day more for this organization but what we have done is dealt them some pretty deadly blows and i'll give obama credit he said it himself in that same speech he said we've killed more al qaeda leaders in the past two years with them cia drones from the killing machine and brabo stack i'm like cordwood that's what dead terrorists are best used for but in the meantime do you think that everything else that goes along with what you call payback has been absolutely worth it and like i said again the erosion of civil liberties now we have what fifteen thousand every i and what i mean a lot of monitoring muslim communities muslim mosques muslim cafes right where the terrorist threat is coming from i mean if you could identify where a terrorist might run communities have it we have seen

a lot of men arrested who were plotting in america who were muslim who'd been caught by informants whether they were local p.d. or f.b.i. there's a way to do and there's a way to do it legally without having to step on the civil liberties of the resident american vote. relation is you know warrants you don't just go and spy on everybody i don't know i'm pretty sure they're going to be your i know you're not a fan of warrants no they're not to hard you're going to threaten with war received reports of the cia's been working with the n.y.p.d. also they're not supposed to do the cia isn't allowed to spy on americans either well they're not spying they're just giving advice to the n.y.p.d. who's doing what we want them to do which is catch the bad guys before they blow something they're teaching them how to spy good mood let them do it better job again like he's one supposed to do in the cia you can train him to do it better more power to what about islamophobia has that been a reaction of. not particularly scared to the idea there was one of the things that was supposed to happen after nine eleven is all these horrible things that happen to muslims you know what increased attacks against jews have increased in the ten years since nine eleven attacks against muslims are so minimal and infinitesimal

that they're hardly trackable it hasn't happened but what about the fact that we have a banning of sharia law something that's completely nonexistent in america now going to now is going through state legislatures good and tennessee it's been banned in alabama it doesn't exist that is they feel real all of those realities it doesn't exist here in the u.s. there's been no doc close here not in a low you oh. it was writer who were really courts are trying to put in parallel banking systems and if they want to make that binding by law that's wrong if they want to voluntarily again more power there is no creeping sharia threat let's get to one last thing here. frank gaffney and i'm going to bring that name into the studio. last week president obama announced or at least his release to that obviously we know we will be keeping troops in iraq says that number is going to town to three thousand not the ten thousand that some people had asked for and john mccain had a few words to say about that particular. i try to support the president as much as i can these are very important issues but there was no military person in anywhere

that recommended that these withdrawals would take place before the second fighting season there is no military person that doesn't believe we need a receipt. will force in iraq far in excess of the size that apparently is being planned. it's actually not true if you think about general ray odierno who used to be in charge in iraq who recently took over as army chief of staff said the larger the force we leave behind the more comments of occupation force remain and then you know that can we have to think of why are there continuing to develop iraq we don't want to be called an occupation force so we have to consider the fact that we need to number down get the numbers down ok the last person in the world wants to argue with ray odierno who's one of the few people who actually scares me i die but the bottom line is we're if we're there in more than three you can call us an occupying force the problem is can you accomplish the mission you're there to do with the numbers you're leaving if you leave three thousand people we can barely conduct

a training mission and we have absolutely no chance to conduct a security mission if c. oh i don't know the oil rich region of kirk cook blows up when the kurds decide to secede because there's nobody there to stop them or there's nobody there to intervene if the iraqis decide to take her back or if the iranians decide to move some more revolutionary guards in there's any number of things that could go wrong that we stop merely by our presence so garrison so heating their roofs all over the world forever and that you're going to as been a war there lately. been troops there since the last one and this is why we're broke the country jim thanks so much for joining us. now still to come tonight as we continue to mark the anniversary of attacks on nine eleven we'll look at the taxpayer money as the u.s. spent on homeland security alaska for investments are paid off then we're on the street as if there's now a ninety eight percent chance of a greek default are investors still banking on a bailout for the dive into that topic in just a. wealthy

british style. time to. market why not. why not what's really happening to the global economy with my stronger no holds barred look at the global financial headlines kinds of reports. on friday we

crunch some numbers on how the u.s. government is divided up it's federal spending in our post nine eleven society and we explained the u.s. has spent six hundred thirty five billion dollars since two thousand and one on the department of homeland security alone and that is a pretty stunning amount of money now a recent slate article questions if our country really needed to spend that kind of money at all john mueller and mark stuart write about cost effectiveness saying that a security measure is cost effective when the benefit of the measure outweighs the costs of providing those security measures and they compare the cost of security measures well. benefits is tallied and lives saved and damage is averted now as we said earlier the us has spent six hundred and thirty five billion dollars since two thousand and one on the department of homeland security alone so let's see how many terror attacks they compute would need to been prevented or foiled each year to justify that spending now they look at three main factors to calculate the cost effectiveness the possibility of a successful attack the losses sustained in

a successful attack and the reduction in risk furnished by security measures now those factors in mind they argue for the amount of money spent on d h s the us would need to put a halt on approximately one thousand six hundred and sixty seven attacks each year or approximately four attacks per day now there have been thirty three legitimate terror plots exposed since nine eleven clearly nowhere near the fifteen hundred a year mark and the co-authors also go on to explain the most important elements of protecting our country since the nine eleven attacks were actually in place before the twin towers fell ten years ago now if you combine those original efforts with an uptick in civilian vigilance over the past decade it looks as if many of our post nine eleven efforts like the t.s.a. body scanners like those things that were unnecessary and in fact mueller and stewart go on to say that the best way to avoid overspending on counterterrorism efforts is to stop over reacting so now that it's been ten years since nine eleven is the time to go back and completely reform our v.h.s. spending habits now i'm not arguing that homeland security should be demolished

completely but when you crunch numbers the way that mueller and stewart have its jaws dropping to realize just how much money has been wasted and not used for real protection. i'm nervous about the eurozone are going wild on friday the whispers of a greek default coming over the weekend were everywhere it's monday obviously that hasn't happened yet but the signs are still pointing in negative directions despite of announcement of two billion euros worth of fresh austerity measures and a countrywide real estate tax in greece germany has stepped up its rhetoric with german economy minister saying that an orderly default for greece could no longer be considered taboo now bloomberg has even reported that greece's chances of a default have now soared to ninety eight percent yeah that fears of downgrades of the french banking sector and everybody is expecting the markets to run wild but are the markets not responding enough some argue that perhaps we have a culture of expected bailouts that's had the investor mentality so what happens if that mentality is wrong joining me to discuss this is edward harrison founder of

the blog credit write down at our thanks so much for joining us tonight now do you think that at this point it's inevitable explain this ninety eight percent chance that people are saying of a greek default well basically you know they have these derivatives credit default swaps and they say that you know people bet on the more they buy them in order to. basically default what they're see is the numbers stack up to be within the next five years is a ninety eight percent chance of a default which there would be only a forty percent of the color of the of the dubai that would you bet on that. one hundred percent and that's why it's i think it's going to within five years definitely the question is not if it's going to happen with it's going to five years seems like kind of a long time at least at the rate that things have been going you know and now we have the german economy minister saying that we can't act like this is taboo anymore we have to talk in realistic terms and realize that a greek default just may happen and it would be an orderly default what what is an

orderly default and is there even such a thing as that it's not a unilateral default it's not that suddenly things over called good. germany bogs and suddenly they are put up or we can pare bills we would default that would be on orders to fall where he's trying to say is that they have a ploy for the default that they are prepared for the default and that they restructure it in a fashion that minimizes the damage to all the other countries that potentially could default as well but is the plan to allow greece to stay in the euro zone and default within it or to kick it out and then let it let it see if it can flow over that's the question i think it's definitely to let it stay in the eurozone because basically in the german the german mentality is that you know we're seen as we have been seen as the bad guy in the past we want cohesion within within your role and that means that we're willing to go the extra mile to make sure that we're not

perceived as the bad guy kicking out other countries and so forth so will try to continue to go the extra mile the reason they've had these bailouts is because germany's been trying to do that in part in part also because they want to save their bags and so you know now that it's obvious that it just can't be done anymore then they're going to go the next step which is we're going to do the hard restructuring we're going to take this default we're going to have our banks be recapitalized and as a result of that we'll see if we can work this out without having to worry about you know portugal. or ireland and so forth ok so now if it's not a matter of if but when if this is definitely going to happen then do you think of the markets are not reacting and nothing anything about this argument that we have this sort of bailout mentality that's left with us since two thousand and eight right because everything got bailed out you could say the depression was averted for a while now do investors automatically assume that there's going to be a way out of it everything is going to be too big to fail that's never going to happen well i think it's what i call you know there's

a huge. range of policy options that are there no one really knows what's going to because it's such a political game the economy. really it goes up to the economy in europe because of bad things happen in europe they're going to double dip everyone's economy going to spiral down there's going to be a lot of fatigue from people they're going to say you know we're going to build these guys up because we have to worry about ourselves and the whole thing will spiral out of control so i think that's a realistic scenario i think that you know investors are disco you know but how can that you know it's sort of like you know either of stocks are worth so they're worth one. hundred a year how do you play that so they split the difference in the middle so i think that's where we are we're sort of in this this pre era were you know are they going to step it in some way or are they just go let things fall apart and no one really knows what's going to do you have any any projections as to you know how long you think it might be and we said five years seems like

a very generous estimate when my creased i think that they're going to fall this year definitely by the next year but probably this year as well a hard restructuring that is there would definitely be in my opinion a restructuring that's playing for greece within the euro zone and the euro zone which is going to see what they can do to make sure that portugal and ireland meet their austerity targets and that speed of italy don't spiral out of control that's where the rubber hits the road right now speed of italy because they're not in any sort of austerity programs that are administered by the i m f they're basically or the world unless the european central bank keeps on buying up their bonds you know bad things you have the world let's talk about. and you mentioned spain of course ahead ali let's talk about america and it's not like we're going to come off unscathed if and when this happens of course sell you know which banks of ours i guess you could say are at the most risk as exactly how exactly will you know i

think it's not just about europe it's also about the united states from my perspective looking principally at the fallout you know when the economy goes down and all these economies are overloaded. you know you look at all of the property bubbles like britain ireland spain in the united states we still have a huge number of foreclosed properties or shadow foreclosures those have not been written when the economy goes down suddenly those loss will be crystallize these banks their equity capital will be eroded they will be able to make loans the whole thing sort of spirals as a result of that so that's really what we have to consider that's sort of the negative scenario where you pile this other stuff on top of it as well you know it becomes even more of a problem piles piles pile that doesn't sound like very much fun but at that point again are people going to start looking to the fed i think the fed is going to have the magic take it to be able to to help the u.s. out that's all you have philip people what's going to happen is that people are to

start saying get in there get in there get in there people already say that right now let's get with the quantitative easing and start putting some liquidity into the markets the want to take the thing too. wasn't very good example now was i mean how much credibility is the fact i have left if they actually do go for healing three one of the one of the governors dick fisher of dallas was saying that you know if the fed tries to allowed to go up we're going to lose all credibility so they're sort of playing but on both sides you have people like rick perry who's campaigning who said that would be treasonous if he were do q e three so they have to play this sort of political game between the people are saying more stimulus of the people are saying no stimulus at all they're going to cut the difference in subway my opinion is that they're going to cut the difference in a way that is going to allow the economy to go down further and then at that point they're going to be forced to the calls will be there for them to do so to really

react you know in a vigorous way i think the fed will get in there and subway but by the sort of the negative scenarios will start to play to only when it gets even worse is the fact that i finally. doing something now really quickly bank of america. bank of america said it's going to shut thirty thousand jobs we know that warren buffett decided recently to invest more money but it's not a bank that should fail at this point you know i would why wouldn't talk about public companies in the way that they should fail first. i think that they're opaque all these large these large banks really they're a black box would i have been able to say that lehman brothers had one hundred fifty billion dollars hole in their belt before they failed no we don't really know . how those assets are marked at bank of america all we do know is that they're under cap the laws they need to cut their costs it order to raise more capital to have enough capital because if the economy goes down they all the big

banks are probably the first to the black box i guess the rest of us are going to have to sit around and wait thanks so much for joining us tonight. coming up next they have. said i read it and it's a hot button issue that immigration is not going to focus on illegal immigration and why i can be a big green. in the united kingdom she's available in the house bill and she won her the only way for her to be getting closer to the millstone hutto some of the country house today in the. towns to remember the creamy to choose to feel the montague the town the world the rubens hotel.

this is all see it with a check of the headlines just tough on the war on. mutual interests a british prime minister visits russia for the first time in six years pushing aside differences to distance economy from of the ship with four hundred million dollars worth of corn trying find to become trees also discount the syrian crisis with russia and even hunted approach on the peace don't believe in interpreting. a decade of cooperation by its results of wrong guesses about centricity from the train nuclear bombs but it would be helpful to represent that during and joining us will operate differently from twenty fifteen with russian special is staying in the country in the meantime the four hundred. eighteen need new center stage and the deepening recession financial crunch says with a crucial fifty four billion viewers to oversee population.