two elections the more the state provides material goods and the more that it's seen that to be that inevitably more it will fall prey to election cycles but i want to use that what we would have been said about higher education and other social goods provided by the state to illustrate or to me seems to be a very disconcerting fact as we know in britain for instance higher education now is now no longer free when i was a student it was free this is one of the many examples property is another one which shows that the generations are getting poorer we are on a downward slope in spite of all the propaganda about how free trade makes anybody richer i don't have figures but i it is my firm conviction that there is nobody or very few people who are richer now than their parents property prices have been driven up by militarily generated from nation and monetary instability generally and the accumulation of debt is obviously a taxation in one form or another on future generations to the benefit of present

one one of the this is one of the big issues of today when it comes into what you also notice very interesting is if we look at the emerging market world you have this expansion of middle classes huge middle classes right now but we have in the west in the united states new years old we see the middle class being under enormous assault in the income disparity that we see you know quality of it is growing now i mean people to echo what john just said there i mean very few people know will say that they think they will do better than their parents i think what's happening is that we're seeing a polarization not just between the rich and the poor and the sort of juristic sense but we seeing sensually a constellation of the underclass and i don't like using the word but even on the cross we seeing a middle class it's constant being squeezed for all the reasons that john said and we seeing a tiny tiny upper class i'm not using that so many social sense already in an economic one is getting much much richer than anyone ever before where. you know

that their wealth is going up by a factor of ten or a hundred or more and you know china has a similar problem because it has now got the fastest rates it's going to fastest growth of billionaires you know soon london property prices will be pushed up in that segment probably chinese to her with a growing middle class simultaneously do as well sure but the fact is the kind of capitalism that we're dealing with tells polarized society even in a very different context so yes you have the what about the middle class in china but china but also experience and is already experiencing social strife and conflict because of this polarization it takes on different forms but caps it isn't always works that it works good dispossession for expropriation and it does not trickle down to the masses that's a great myth which i hope the last three or four ninety years you know it's going to be you also if i go to use it you know a lot of people say the middle class i get the state off my back but maybe in the industrialized west it's the state that can save the middle class actually i think the fourth myth is that the middle class exists. there are two divisions really one is between the financial guys and the corporate guys and i'm happy if the corporate

guys invest the financial guys are not going to so if the corporate guys don't invest the public's going to have to come in which is what's happening now but the other thing is the property of the known property owners and i was amazed to discover when i got to the united states that everybody who's in the trade union is considered middle class you just mean guys with jobs that's what you see very often terrible the family capital or capital gains or whatever and you just need people who make money from money and people earning money from work and most of these middle class people make money from work and they should cost they along with the poor of people who make their money to the point where being employed means middle class will live once. i know in both once said very politically that for him working class men people who didn't want to work. was in a conflict when it collapsed and i would put it the other way around when you get a crisis the middle class becomes the people who. after work and they start having

this illusion that they can become rich like everybody else and suddenly realize hey we're just like the poor guy down the street that i used to pass by they're all in the same boat when they realize that then you'll get the mark receive back then you'll get equality back because once people think we're all in the same boat then they start thinking we should all have the same rights except the guys who are taking it away from us and that's precisely where we need much more or many more risk in sharing our risk and profit sharing arrangements so that you know you don't have a disconnect in those who take risk and those who suffer the consequences because what we've century dealing with is a system that has privatized profit and nationalized losses and socialize risk and that is the system we're still in three or four years after the onset of closures them for the rich and capitalism for the poor exactly and in some ways what we really need is for people to share risk and profit so that if things go well everyone benefits and the way to do this is through property it's through various forms of popular not just individual property but also forms of communal property housing associations are a great great example of this that's where you share risk and profit everyone is

better off if you work together you could never for example negotiate better energy deals with the big companies you can only do it as a small body and we could have as across the economy your central. bank my money is with a credit union you know manitoba the prairie's have them right you give them their money they keep it. the people that use. the economists victoria trick that great. to be old fashioned here thank you gentlemen for discussing this in stay with r.t. . wealthy

british style sun. times. market trying to. find out what's really happening to the global economy

with mike's concert for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into cars a report on our keep. putting a stop to stop and search the british government faces pressure to cut the cars of police that says terror suspects are kept in limbo for years without charge. and reprinting voices americans concern over a surge in sectarian violence in post revolutionary arab states with experts saying washington's previously unconditional support for the uprisings is starting to come back. plus hopes of asia coming to the euro's rescue phase as china rejects the role of savior saying that you must take responsibility for tackling its own debt problems.

international news and comment live from our headquarters here in central moscow this is our t.v. the british parliament is discussing whether to reverse the law which allows police to stop and search terrorist suspects without reasonable suspicion a committee of m.p.'s argues that the powers go too far and are a breach of civil liberties but as all of these are have been reports the u.k. has other legal loopholes which have left some suspects locked up for years without charge. the comely is incomplete. hence. the anguish of a family torn apart. by. the. pair were asked to leave these homes and climb up some. who

are sun sun is one of britain's forgotten terrorist suspects held in custody for five years without charge trapped in a twisted depths of its justice system we know of him is very weak and connect well probably right decisions because if they are going to. tell us and was arrested in two thousand and six on alleged terrorism offenses he hasn't been tried here because it's not the u.k. that wants him but the us it accuses of supporting the taliban and being involved with websites it calls extremist one of the websites servers happen to be in america and that's why it's after him people like. if they committed anything occurred in this country and they should be brought to justice here and charged and if released and let them get on with their lives five years in prison this is

story shit britain won't release him because of a treaty signed in two thousand and three in the post nine eleven crackdown it means the u.s. can extradite terrorist suspects without a hearing or even showing any evidence has families relentless fight for justice is the only thing stopping them. with classes. would be. the. americas. only the people who sell something but not all and one of the garment workers to. this is where a tower how was arrested at his father's shop just over five years ago since then the family have seen their son once a week but fear they won't see him at all he's extradited to the states in prison here tell her writes poetry and teaches english a victory guided and convicted it will be

a supermax jail solitary confinement and life without parole extreme measures to those who know the man born and educated in london i'm very surprised that the british courts have not treated him on bail at least in all these these years because it's completely clear that he is not any kind of threat to anybody there of paul more like including barbara our maid britain's longest attained without charge prisoner gary mckinnon another fighting extradition since hacking into the pentagon seven years ago both pm town has suffered from asperger's syndrome which helped keep gary out of prison unlike the muslim suspects karen mckinnon is say near white middle class english boy and barbara and. are very highly educated. british middle class boy is and they're both

asians and they're muslims and what that tells you is sort of something rather awful about our society despite opposing the treaty in opposition the government's done little to overturn it only an independent review in sic temba down has families gone to the european court of human rights in a last ditch speed to get and tried here it's taken five years to get this far patel has fathers not giving up hope yet i bennett r t london. and artie's are the bonuses continue to follow that story in london and you can keep track of it on twitter where you can check out his tweets on he and his latest message he points out the u.k. government promised an independent review of extradition in its election manifesto almost a year ago but now it seems to be all but forgotten the promise and i asked the other school come for them and they can stop it on this and other stories.

the us says voicing concerns about the threat of sectarian violence in the middle east and north africa following the uprisings it so enthusiastically backed in her annual report on religious freedom secretary of state hillary clinton urged arab nations not to trade one form of repression for another or for more let's cross to our correspondent on and she's in washington d.c. so we've heard some some cautious statements by hillary clinton there to some extent it sounds like she is knowledge of the u.s. as well i suppose shot itself in the foot here is this likely to signal any sort of change in u.s. policy. well given given the factions within this administration i doubt that it actually signals and change in foreign policy but i would say most of the experts i've talked to says that they say that this is an about face a drastic shift in the rhetoric that we've seen coming out of the obama administration here in the united states now what began a sort of cautious extreme caution in the early early weeks of the gyptian

revolution has really developed as you just mentioned into almost a full throated full support of the so-called arab spring here out of the united states and i want to contrast actually some of the language that we've heard from secretary of state hillary clinton herself here's her speaking just a little bit earlier in full support essentially of the change of regime change in libya and in syria take a listen. must go and the libyan people deserve to determine their own future the transition to democracy in syria has begun and it's time for assad to get out of the way all right well we heard that kind of language and contrast that with what we've seen from this administration today with the release of the religious freedom report sort of a buyer's remorse some of the experts i've talked to have described it as take a listen to our today in the middle east and north africa that transitions to

democracy have inspired the world but they have also exposed ethnic and religious minorities to new dangers people have been killed by their own neighbors because if their ethnicity or their faith in other places we've seen governments stand by while sick tarion violence inflamed by religious animosities tears communities apart. so where was that kind of caution a weeks ago when the administration essentially spoke out in favor of the libyan intervention and and increased and ramped up its rhetoric in terms of what's going on in syria some folks do say that this. signifies the u.s. essentially acknowledging some of the dangers posed by revolutions you see just briefly what repercussions could u.s. policy have in states that have seen regimes toppled recently. well we've seen

already for example in egypt we've seen leaders from the muslim brotherhood warn of potential new bile and said if elections do not take place soon or in times turmoil in that region we've seen in libya for example again this so-called kinetic humanitarian intervention by the west that was supposed to. protect the civilians in libya now there's warnings from both russian officials and other governments that libyan rebels weapons were actually stolen from their weapons depots and potentially have ended up in the arms of terrorist organizations regional terrorist organizations in that area potentially al qaeda hands so a lot of question marks in the wake of the so-called arab spring potential unrest in that region that could really threaten the stability there right thanks very much indeed. reporting live from washington d.c. and for more on this joined by professor mark owen and he's a look in modern history at oxford university thanks very much indeed for being

with us now we just been hearing hillary clinton saying that sectarian and ethnic violence could undermine democratic transition in the arab spring countries should be the state department which backed those uprisings have realized that that would have been a consequence. yes it's rather surprising to hear this and i suppose one feels rather like one of those red indians in the old fashioned movies who says in this case white woman she speak with forked tongue because i was you saying the u.s. government sponsored radical groups as the best way to bring their regimes that are of. course beginning to wonder whether perhaps this could spiral out of control after all we have the classic example of this thirty years ago in afghanistan when people in the cia thought to be very good reasons to get a mujahideen going to attack the person if it was you who were soviet troops they were successful but i'm not sure the long term it was terribly beneficial to the united states or the world in general so would you say it's sorry to interrupt

would you say it is fair that these critics of the u.s. operations and be attacking an interest in those arab spring uprisings it's a policy that could actually backfire is that fair comment. for comment i think one has to say that it's still continuing certainly the british government that's very closely associated with the americans has a whole organization called the quilliam foundation which has been very much part of a process of bringing arab muslim fundamentalists in from the fold to join in these revolutions so the key figures in the libyan opposition to gadhafi in the actual hardcore fighting force are people who are in afghanistan turned around as it were by the british and now used against africa but we do of course whether they will stay bought if i can put it that way whether they are the british or the americans will stay on parallel lives that's the danger of course and of course i suppose you could draw that comparison with what's happening in egypt where the muslim brotherhood of course is has benefited from what's happened there but here it is an organization banned by some countries a terrorist is just recently promised

a new martyrs if a parliamentary election isn't called soon well doesn't that really strengthen the concerns that islam is positions are really increasing and that is a sign of fundamentalism that. yes i think the question is what kind of democracy would you have either in egypt or perhaps in syria where the the core of the opposition to president assad is not the brothers the cousins if you like of the gyptian muslim brotherhood of these groups say they want democracy you may even indeed have majority support but they also say there's no question that a woman could be elected president of the christian quarter but we have to remember in these countries like egypt and syria there are significant religious minorities both there are a christian minorities there are also muslim groups who are regarded by the hardcore of the fundamentalists as not really muslims as heretics and so there is a danger that under the guise of the translation what we will see is the replacement of secular dictators who at least tolerated really just versity of

fashion been replaced now with very dogmatic hardline people who will want to kind of saudi single rigid religious authority that will not tolerate dissent amongst muslims of all non muslim groups and i think that is a real danger particularly as the violence tends to bring the more radical people to the top talking about radical people coming to the top al-qaeda capitalizing on the situation in libya for example russia has said that it's very likely al-qaeda has gained weapons from libya during the revolution of course without nato that would have happened does this actually mean that the alliance has played into enemy hands perhaps and strengthened our kind of position. the whole were over the attitude towards gadhafi is rather bizarre isn't it we made friends with him his chief of intelligence from some koussa turns out to be one of our agents for a long time and then suddenly we turned on him dismantle and. destroy the libyan state structure and create chaos. also try think is

a very mixed blessing for people there but certainly offers the risk that weapons politically conventional weapons already spreading around west or south towards into a black africa and of course over to egypt and also the israelis complain that weapons seem to be coming from libyan stockpiles. for the garza strip so whatever the so-called humanitarian purpose of the libyan operation the long term consequences for humanity could be i'm afraid so extremely negative professor mark on the lecture in modern history also university thanks for being with us live here on r.t. thank you. well in libya the national transitional council has given everyone in the proceed to proceed half a stronghold of bani walid two days to leave or face a full scale attack the whereabouts of kind of a death himself remain unknown and steven rambam who heads an international investigative agency says it's just a matter of time before he's found. khadafi is a nut but he's a very clever and hook and he's a nut that's managed to survive for forty five years and i'm sure he took note of

osama bin laden was captured and i'm sure he took note of saddam hussein was captured and i'm sure he was avoiding those mistakes but he will make a new mistook. that interview coming your way shortly here on our team the chinese prime minister has warned the e.u. that it must tackle its economic problems it comes just days after italian officials reportedly attempted to convince a chinese delegation to buy italy's debt francis learn from the investment company in c.n. holdings ltd believes that europe shouldn't just hope for china to come to the rescue. europe's problems. are european along. the last leg. of last resort. europe's. politicians

have. their budget deficits by charging their future so no. to catch them in two thousand and eleven is the year five really. several european countries like greece and italy so big to put their houses in order to spend. a half but not spend more don't have. well this comes as italy is pushing a highly unpopular austerity package a series of tax hikes and spending cuts designed to save seventy billion dollars as one a confidence vote in the country's lower house of parliament the measures were approved by the senate despite weeks of wrangling and public protests but many wonder if it will be enough to turn around years of economic stagnation and a culture of government excesses parties of first reports. as it

heads to once again tighten its belt and then lighted meal staring politicians it seems found a way to state and selves and penny we publish. of the inside of the parliament and it's you see a couple of a menu as like. a restaurant with very cheap drives and this cheeky had exclusive many was leaked in italian let's press a magazine but this isn't a niche and instead of peace train people pay for it we vote that this. prize for the people of the parliament because five million some from around the piles on you here. the controversial spending doesn't end there politicians have four hundred thousand euros allocated to learn which course is never a million euro spent just for their stationery and it's the taxpayer left getting that we. see that it's been hard for many to stomach that we are in economic

recession and arlene are my people like our speed increases. or decreases because they don't care the interest off the telly to care are they interested so we are. outside the parliament building a protest meeting and has been growing like a tiny ferrari has been on hunger strike for months. and all the people here are hungry for a future for their children we don't see that at the moment but to make the politicians listen we know we need to get three million people here who will come protesting against what they say is a politicians a piece of taxpayers' money and an inability to deal adequately with the economic crisis in the country still across italy cosseted he cuts in station spending in people's wages it comes to the politicians it seems no expenses. people's appetite for change is growing. thing here. in the break that they've had their

voices. for the fish since they consider that they've got the hunger strike will continue and that remain here until they get some answers there artsy. financial crisis is raging across the atlantic as well the subject of the latest edition of crosstalk which is how america's middle class is bearing much of the brunt in his quick preview of the program showing a little later today. i was amazed to discover when i got to the united states that everybody who's in the trade union is considered middle class you just mean guys with jobs that's what you mean about the various sotero family capital all capital gains or whatever you just need people who make money from money and people only money from work most of these middle class people make money from work and they should cast their lot in with the poor people who make their money if you work at the point where being employed it means middle class well i want. them to do i know

involved one so very peacefully that for him working class and people who don't want to work. was simply no when it collapsed and i would put it the other way around when you get a crisis the middle class becomes the people who have to work and they start having this illusion that they can become rich like everybody else and suddenly realize hey we're just like the poor guy down the street that i used to pass by. it. the u.s. and turkey have signed a memorandum on the deployment of an american radar station in the east of the country as part of the nato backed missile defense system it comes just a day off to remain here agreed a deal with washington under which a land based interceptor missiles and over one hundred military personnel will be based on romanian soil well to discuss these developments are now joined live from

belgium by banda he's spokesman of the peace movement very of the there thanks very much indeed for being with us now the aim of the shield is claimed to be a defense against perceived threats from the light solved by iran something that is subject to a lot of skepticism is there more to this plan that meets the eye. yeah iran is mentioned there's the most potential to where something to europe. is not human to me so defense. if you look military to tehran it doesn't seem very serious argument or convincing arguments and what is often said is there. another more hidden agenda so it creates a kind of events for nato towards other nuclear states by russia and in russia is perceived. as a through fear.