you didn't go into a store and pick between twenty every twenty eight different varieties of cereal and you can choose from what is freedom maybe doesn't that we talk about if you thought that the system that we speak of actually will enable a level of freedom for human society never before seen to answer your question about government what is government government is really a failure of the economic system what is a government do they create laws to regulate economic functions not to mention all the aberrations that come from the lack of economic efficiency that we have mean violence mean property crimes which is the majority of it they also engage in military operations against other sovereign nations so they can better themselves and protect themselves over time this basically all the only two things that government actually does if you really sit down and look at the politicians have no technical orientation a they mirror value systems may manipulate people's values so people identify with him and say oh i like them doesn't matter if they have a plan none of these politicians running for the u.s. the u.s. presidency at any plan whatsoever as far as what the what unemployment issue really

requires the debt issue really requires what the energy issue really requires which are firmly technical so government in the future will really be to management of the planet producing exactly what we can produce with the highest efficiency to benefit the world's people this is what a true economic model would be what is economics it's defined in greek as the management of a household the planet is our household a true economic model is proper efficient management of this household not the use of money as a commodity and all the distortion that is emerged from that process but peter it sounds a little bit like this idea topik then again as a society what is one example you had seen that you believe that doesn't work because you've seen it happen. well well first of all utopia assumes a finality there's no such thing as a finality we're just trying to update society to present a knowledge remember arch ours notions of economics and politics are based on traditional ideas that go back hundreds and thousands of years these are completely

outdated social structures that do not resemble any of our scientific ingenuity at this point in time in our ability to actually care for the human population which is what a society is supposed to do right the herb esta gamble you can have our first nations people that actually understood what it meant to live off the land they understood the carrying capacity of their region they understood that you don't you don't pollute the stream and that they drink from which is something industry does every single day right now for its necessity to maintain cost efficiency ok peter there is a new this that notion let me ask you this i don't want to go back and work the land i love what i do i'm a journalist i enjoy it a lot i'm not going to give that up so how do you actually make what you're talking about happen. well that biosafety the bio social pressures that will emerge that one hit your life that will inhibit the lives of your family and it lives of everyone else on this planet through time as the system completely deteriorates will make you question what you value with respect to what you lights to do it's

not an issue of what any of us like ok it's an issue of what is right and what sustainable for the human species what will actually work for us as a society without causing conflict and all of the deprivation and problems that continue to deteriorate our standard of living create much less safety through society so what if you're asked a question oh well i like to do this just ask yourself why you like to do that is there anything in your history maybe that you would like to do other than that is reeling in your childhood that you aspired to that maybe you couldn't do because you had to find a wedge into this system to make sure you got enough paid for your occupation which is what all of us have to do so it's a kind of an open question so i think when people begin to evaluate what's happening now they will change their values they will begin to see well maybe i should contribute to society i'm you're speaking to a person who works at wall street in advertising two of the most meaningless occupations on the planet i know very much about values because i used to identify with those types of things i ask myself what am i doing what am i actually do and contribute to society this waste of my brain if everyone actually was on

a plane where they could contribute to society to invent to engage in a democratic process to create the world around us technically that would be a beautiful state we would have many einsteins many does vinci's many powerful minds emerge that are not oppressed by this necessity to come into a monetary system that restricts their possibility why a friend of mine than if they don't have the ability to gain anything other than the good of their fellow they all. they're gaining much more than they'd ever gain in this system they're gaining in they're getting a piece of mind they're gaining an understanding they're getting the resources that they need their gaining a community they're gaining not a competitive oscillating offensive posture where you're always out for yourself in this this primitive capitalist system that we have today which by the way is actually is a pseudo social system because it's assumed by the invisible hand that everyone fight amongst themselves and some going to manifest for the greater good which is provably not the case so what we have here is

a different value or in station where when you contribute to society it comes back to you so if i have an amazing invention i invented not because i want monetary gain i know when i invented it comes back to need just as it goes to everyone else and everybody else invents something or comes up with a new idea it comes to them and everyone else as well the social interest must become scuse me self interest must become social interest if we expect to survive as a species if your lies are going to see it or doesn't seem it doesn't seem like you we would be able to convince a large number of people to do this without conflict and some would argue for example that the goal of civic revolution showed rulers of the world at that time what happens if you don't listen to the have nots which are who suffer as in in a capitalist system they are critical av are we at that moment again yet. well i would i wouldn't conflate such issues i would do first of all you have to step back and look at the technical orientation you can't say oh this will never

happen because of where we are today that's the wrong train of thought if everyone thought like that we wouldn't be anywhere if you realize the tentacle orientation of what's possible you need to these are human population to eliminate war if we simply work together to share resources to create almost an infinite amount of energy if we applied our technology correctly if we actually applied these things from the ground up realizing the train of thought there's no argument to what we can do from here it's simply a matter of getting it done in my experience however as i engage this movement i begin to talk to people about this issue i'm amazed at how fast they realize that there might be some baggage there but you're eventually going to an exponential increase of people who want a massive social change why because they have to have it their survival depends on it but what is going to be in the form of some kind of revolution. well it spends a defined revolution a real revolution is a relic revolution of values not a violent revolution not a revolution of overcoming the state is like those movements were is here to bring in people with a con of values set in a global community which is why we're global entity obviously and from that

pressure from this mere understanding change will be affected now i could go on other tangents about how civil just civil disobedience and different programs could be and could emerge within the movement that's relevant at this point if people understand as the human species as a whole what's possible what the real problem is and what the solution actually is then it becomes a self correcting system the problem is educational and i think even politicians even the highest level people in government will wake up to this as well and eventually the transition will emerge on its own accord ask how do you pray i will take it when they're in how much the politically benefit from their power but you being here to kind of sort this all out with me and tell us your theory and then an answer from the question that can out of him that was peter just a filmmaker and founder of the dichotomy of that pressure off of that guy best ever . that's the idea for now for more of the stories we covered that are t. dot com slash usa check out our you tube page if you two got com slash r.t.

america come back at seven we will have that story on america's crumbling infrastructure which we told you about earlier you're not going to want to mess it maybe here joseph has a solution to it follow me on twitter or lester see it that i'm. sure is that so much of it is on the economy because it is going to really create emerging countries in an ever changing world but what does it mean when a country is finally emerged. live. we'll. read you the latest in science and technology from the realms where.

we've got the future of coverage. mission free liquid intake should be free and splutters free to make amends three. three. three. plug in video for your media project a free media party dot com. hello

in welcome to crosstalk i'm peter with emerging countries in an ever changing world but what does it mean when a country is finally emerged. it. discussed the fate of western capitalism and globalization i'm joined by john laughlin the director of studies at the institute of democracy in cooperation he's a lecturer in politics at the university of kent and allan friedman he's a former economist working for the greater london authority and i'd like to point out predicted the second wave of this great contraction all right gentlemen let's look at capitalism as it stands today we have china we have brazil we have india we

have russia lecturing the west now west lecturing the united states and the european union john is a case where the west says do what we say we don't do what we do budget deficits fiscal policy the mess in gridlock all around well the reason why these countries are lecturing america is that for forty years america has had an exorbitant privilege in the international financial system the dollar is the dominant reserve currency and moreover since the decision taken by president nixon exactly forty years ago in august nine hundred seventy one to close the gold window in other words to cut all links between the dollar and gold the whole world has lived in a dollar dominated a regime of fear paper currency that is to say of currencies which are expressions of debt that will never be reimbursed and it's that basic fact that the monetary system is based on debt which nobody has any intention of reimbursing which in my

view has generated the problems. but we know seen in the eurozone and the banking committee when there's a big deal spain over all right when we have connected with debt we have everybody else paying for it so when the u.s. makes a mistake when the european union makes so much loot the euro zone's all became prevalent it's alien i mean it's you know the indians are in the question of the brazilians are very upset because they're saying we're exporting your inflation to us. i think there is definitely doubts and that's why you know you have to look at global imbalances and see exactly where these huge distortions and imbalances come from but i would say this. everyone in a way has benefited from the few sort of economy the chinese in a way have because they've been able to keep down their currencies are already defined in a certain way isn't it i mean at the end of the day you can't have an entire economy running on debt to greece that there's no you can't but the fact is i think there's been too much complacency in the global system that is that for them the big problem the global system is not even just state that it's the fact that we

have too much that corporate private and public and the fed of the that the real economy is being undermined by all the kind of hot money circulating around the world so we really need to do is tie finance to the real economy no one has really come up it's not in the west not in the east not in the north not in the south so i think it's a global problem which i don't think we've heard real solutions about what will we saw from countries very political i think political will is actually from the very countries that you say are now starting to say why should i listen to the u.s. and the reason is the spin i follow the work of radical whom explains very clearly that these ideas about globalization and free trade that everybody took as being this must be true were actually very carefully fostered myth and you can trace it through the the liberations of the people who invited the president that were fostered by the u.s. and the stream is and two of them have gone ok the first myth is the usa is the greatest power in the world economically and politically the second myth is the

nation's a vanishing the not like coming back but the third myth is that the state cannot play any role in the economy and in particular it cannot invest now the developing world never they with many people don't adapt to abandon that but actually a lot of the countries that are you know paraded as paradigms of new liberalism like that india actually thirteen percent of the indian economy is in state hands the banks are still controlled are still capital controls and that was never allowed as part of the explanation for their success i think they're just now starting to say hang on all the things you told us not to do the things that have got us through and maybe you shouldn't say that it would be. west is more ideologically driven than any of the countries where we're you know it just is the west is more hypocritical because i think one could make the same point about the american economy which after all depends to a very large extent on the money of the channel through the pentagon whose budget level let's forget is two billion dollars a day and that money goes to factories all over the united states and represents

a considerable part not only of the american economy but much more importantly of the american power in the world you know the invisible hand is guided by the iron fist of american military power so the idea of this disempowered american supremacies based on free markets and so on is completely wrong but it's certainly the case krauts is not and cannot be a free market economy without a strong state authority true and certainly true today just look at how the states have to bailout finance and if they didn't bail out the banks everyone was going to go down there's been a collusion of the free markets and collusion of the strong states since the late nineteenth century at the very least possibly right frog in history and so really what we are talking about is states and markets colluding at the expense of civil society where we don't actually have enough for ptolemy wages property and so on to make ends meet that's the real situation where you square the circle we have the tea partiers in united states don't want to raise any taxes they just want to slash slash slash it's

a very very interesting piece last jobs to this last federal jobs local jobs create more employment there is a very curious poll which went on when the events at madison wisconsin were going on the sort of the american narrative brought rising as it was dubbed and turned out i'm told this anecdotally but i trust that two thirds of those people participating declared their affiliation is tea partiers there is just people feel betrayed there's a range against government now it's misplaced it's chaotic actually tea party support once they started going on about the debt ceiling and people realized it meant cuts social spending tea party support dropped from forty percent to twenty percent in the polls. i don't think from what i've seen american people are one hundred percent behind this you know dismantling what is left of the social state to the contrary they feel cheated by the banks they feel cheated by the politicians they're expressing internet because nobody's given them leadership not only leadership i mean if we look at we go into this great contraction the great

recession we look at wall street has recovered handsomely very handsomely we can talk about the eurozone a little while here but main street has just been guided in remains that way i mean right now we had we just saw unemployment figures in the united states i mean the wind is no good job growth at all you have no recovery from a recession when you don't have job growth well i think like many people that the financial sector is grossly over cologne i think it's committed all sorts of abuses that that has become. a commodity that people as a sort of to simple demand the responsible isolation and so on and so on but i repeat what i said just now which is that the fundamental problem is the debt generated by the monetary system and in the sense that sacking the finance industry is only shooting the messenger because their job the job of banks is to safeguard people savings and to invest it and in a situation where as edmund grows everyone is forced to play the game although nobody understands the rules and very few understands the rules these people. are

not denying they've committed to be used to it but ultimately they are presented with an unbearable situation in which they have to provide for a risk which is generated by the unstable monetary regime that we live in that's a saying that we need a banking system over the economy i mean a real economy and i think that's what we've really happened here and that's what causes so much rage i mean i would i'm the first to agree you need a banking system as john pointed out to have an economy but it seems that the economy is and sacrificed for so long in favor of banks because when you're bailing out greece you're not bailing out greece are bailing out french and german banks that's what you're very articulately and the big problem is that we serve in the interest of a second. which is overblown and i entirely agree with you on this and in fact whose growth and profit if there are any never trickle down to the masses it's a complete myth to say generate financial wealth and actual profit and somehow everyone will benefit it's just not true it's not true in the us it's not true in the u.k. it's not true anywhere i mean except for maybe city state like single poor hopes more confident luxemburg i can survive on on the proceeds of crime started with no

wealth of the truth of what we need to do so channel money into productive capacity that can even include i wish i was reproducing they have been everything to productive productivity whether it is in. china in russia i mean you don't have to do it in the u.k. you look at the very nature of the new us that hung on the very nature i mean to get out of a crisis you have to obviously preserve the jobs that are being destroyed but what you actually have to do is get out of it by investing in what's new now the interesting thing about the economy now is seventy eighty percent of jobs in the advanced world all service jobs and we have to think through what it means because the internet has vastly expanded the capability of humans to interact with the curious thing is they've reacted to that by actually being much more interested in things that are locally produced locally used the nature of services the personal fact means that actually you can rebuild an economy on the basis of advanced services in london i really saw this because people were getting amply turned five by the collapse of revenues from compact discs and so on and what happened is all

the money was being spent on live performance and we were just about to dismantle our performance venues and i said hold on no you're going to need it and actually the apollo which was threatened with closure framus don't fall in and west london is reopened is the apollo that's the way to go trouble there is it's a very interesting example is i think it does show that people have a desire for you know real in this case real service they can participate in and benefit from a complete virtuality which is what global finance after all is but at the same time as you say it's now an prayed for me which is a global change and does benefit from. this kind of globalization has brought about a current crisis i think what we also need is to diversify economies and not just have services even though they can be better and more productive services and less productive ones but also high tech industry high tech manufacturing that is also an even culture i mean there is still food shortage russia has huge resources in this respect that's where the money needs to go not into finance and not into services

which in the end can be also very fortunately with good financial eyes all right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and we turn from the break we'll talk about the fate of western capitalism and who is a should stay with r.t. . lucky to. still. live and let live. play live. bringing you the latest in science technology from the lives of those you share covered. her. mum. mum.

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today live. welcome back to crossfire dr peter lavelle we're discussing the fate of capitalism in the age of globalization right shift gears here i mean one of the things that's happening in western economies is this what i call this age of entitlement where people believe if the state owes them something i'm looking at the baby boomers here is this a mentality and let's mix it in with election cycles here too you know where it will be elections like all going on in the united states nobody wants to touch these entitlements are just the kiss of death when you want to be elected ok but that has to start changing yeah i mean the welfare state and the abuses that are

committed against it is a massive problem and. just to give an anecdote recently a few years ago in london the bar of hammersmith was won by the conservatives and they won it by going around all the council flats and hammersmith and promising people a new kitchen if they voted conservative and they did and presumably the new kitchens would provide it in other words the state the state's role as a political community as a low base community has been completely bastardized. and has become instead a vehicle for providing material goods and naturally that is open to abuse it's open to abuse by indigenous people it's open to abuse by immigrants and eight he's one of the course is one of the many causes of eluding state budgets people as you say in your question expect the state to provide for them and they regard the state as a cake i don't know more so if we look at the history of political economy this is a relatively new phenomenon and it came about after the second world war we before

that people didn't expect so much from the state you were lucky if you got basic education but nobody promised you would job nobody you. promising job opportunities it's just gone too far and it's got into the election cycle no. very few people a few mavericks can fight it but most people just go along to get along i think that's right but i would probably be. the one the chief of the the welfare states after the second world war was that it did provide universal standards at the very least people weren't left say to die and you know condition that was the whole reason why it was created in the first yeah exactly so i think the idea of universal standards is still one shouldn't entirely abandon but i think it's the mode of delivering any kind of service any kind of wealth that we need to revisit and what was destroyed with the centralization of welfare was the mutual it's the arrangements all the reciprocal arrangement among workers and then fact were quite advanced things like friendly societies things like hospices they were actually all community based or based on and professional association on guilds essentially and

if we not privatized welfare but turn into something community based user base that people can participate in the services that they receive then i think we're doing the right thing as you know will lie there not looking at the state model with you if you decide to say you look at your model which still exists in front exactly you still have thousand dollars you know you think it's could be linked to local government so it's not anti status is just saying the central state doesn't know what we need local authorities mikes regional authorities in some cases but especially to the community of users and providers i should really be empowered not some bureaucrats in london paris or new york or washington d.c. i would distinguish between a sense of entitlement and a sense of right and the difference is this enticement you say i want to and nobody else is going to get it and are particularly well. you can't take it away from me there's not a very important i think this is scientific right simply means we should all have it but the curious thing is that you need to update life liberty and the pursuit of

happiness because nobody says life liberty and the pursuit of education but actually if you look at what's happened as society has progressed the. one thing that's never happened is the leaving age for school has never gone down it's always gone up simple proposal universal education that's what the workforce of tomorrow will need to be like if it's going to produce the sort of stuff that we can sell and it's not by the way transposing the advanced course of produce of services to the basic ones because the basic green infrastructure is needed in order that you can have those intellectual functioning the creative city has to be continually redesigned to be a local it's the place where this sort of thing happens so actually you need this huge infrastructural investment and you need what i call social investment investment in civilization because going back to the rule of the state right here in this is very imperfect he was i mean in almost to the point where it's a self-inflicted wound because who can afford to do huge infrastructure projects i

know the united states freeway system for example that really needs a lot of repair you privatized that i hopefully not but a lot of people you can have structures other than the central state and its agencies you can have infrastructure banks which are linked to local investment trusts there's all sorts of ways you can deliver on the same goods and services we're talking about without involving either the central states or capitalism what we need to break is the collusion of the central state and big multinational corporations and essentially decentralized the economy we all believe in local democracy or at least most people do we never believe in democracy when it comes to the economy we don't believe in local participation it comes to economic decisions what i think we should begin with a simple question is the b.b.c. a state institution it's a public beings exactly that's head of the state republicans a shooting star of the. ok but for the same you know what a person should rephrase yes the state has to come right put in a diverse diverse and one of the things we have to do is reinvent the state

actually in the public realm based on entitlement based on the fact that if the private investors are going something else that is public. council is going to have to step in it doesn't really exist all leads to all roads lead to rome but it's about democracy too i mean when you have an election cycle you have to deliver the goods at least at a certain point or make promises that you can't keep ok and this is one of the problems that the industrialized west has because it has to give the pretense of making promises in entitlements and it's very short limited basis but when you have india brazil china russia they think very long term i mean everyone in russia talks about a twenty twenty five project ok and slowly but surely they're working away at it but there's a longer vision and it's not tied to the election cycle how much of the problems in the economy in the west is tied to elections the more the states provide some material goods and the more that it's seen to be that then never to believe in one .