ethnic serbs kosovar albanians over border controls pristina seized of the disputed checkpoints from local control leading to a deployment of nato troops to keep the peace. and up next in our interview show spotlight off sits down with poland's a former deputy prime minister stay with us. in the faraway land. where human life is ruled by nature. the past of planet earth is scarcely preserved by the poor. lie hidden in the deep permafrost. and for those who deal with them through story times are still not sure.

how again they're welcome to. the show. i'm always all of them today my guest is. in polish recent history the country had a little time to convert its commie planned economy into a complex market that. there had been no precedents and the country needed a qualified and charismatic economist to do the job and hear less about sort of each came up with the idea of shop terror many years later it brought him the title of the best reformer in the european union his former polish deputy prime minister . when communist regimes in eastern europe were close to collapse it was clear that restricted economies wouldn't stand a chance against the free market the need for reform was clear in poland one of the

leading economists. for the package of shock measures later known as the plan it was designed to allow the tradition of a state controlled economy to a market oriented mechanism. was immense over a million people lost their jobs but cleric. clearly there are people have it companies which provided jobs for one point five million people it became the basis of shock there are plans in other communist economies including russia recently the european enterprise institute described plastic boxes as the best reformer in the european union. columnist about solution welcome to the show thank you very much thank you very much for coming well first of all today you are in the top five on the list of the most popular polish probably tensions but what about the public opinion that there

in the ninety's were you as popular as you had today initially yes because there are expectations and most people wanted to change the system to have low inflation but of course with the passage of time and the turnout they are not on the benefits about those costs my papa has fallen he was fluctuating but now more and more people realize that it was worse transforming star because in politic on so so what you just said. makes me think that the most difficult thing about reforms in poland maybe also in russia at that time was changing the mentality of the people well was changing changing their expectations there or not i think you have to change the conditions under which people operate and work and you have to do it radical way again and people are just many people just as they

behave you know they started in a new way and some of the adjust the views so i didn't want to try to change mentality because i was not a creature i wanted to change the conditions to improve the conditions for good work for an apprenticeship. for research etc well for for us for journalists i'm an expert in poland and i have i never written actually a lot about problem but for us there that time was fun i mean great fun i mean poland salad out an arse less well and sour all those crack off and all all those things and so it was i mean real fun real i mean life over there and the blood pumping in so i want to put you know better you know the conditions you know what was behind behind these pictures yet so what were the conditions in pearl in the was it was in any any similar to what we had in russia during the period when there was garbage on the screen but nothing nothing in the food stories and we have to

endure until you have to extraordinary periods in poland's recent history the first one ninety eight and two one and there was a first solidarity movement which was unprecedented and the communist or socialist because this was an independent organization. and now as i became a hero about it was surprised by the introduction of martial law in december eighty one and then you have nine rather gloomy years. and there was not much right to the end of the children but it appeared and then there was a compromise of negotiation said the round table in poland the creation of the new government with the first noncommunist prime minister there was most of these and i was asked to take the responsibility for the economic reforms and coming to a question where certainly those poland in a tonight and russia. two years later we have a very very difficult dramatic economic conditions similar very very high inflation

hyperinflation production was falling. in poland to be have we have very had in four and. foreign reserves how the exchange was very very low so it was a catastrophic but it was also a great opportunity to study allies and reform the country. well it's an interesting thing listen when you went to school and when i went to school the only russia but it was it was the same period of time it was becoming a communist rule both in poli russia so the only type of economy we studied was marxist economy and marxist leninist economy so who were you teachers how did you get an opportunity to learn about the transition to learn about how what so an economist can do with a plan to save it economy to change it who taught you first of all i was not very

good at econ and political economy socially i was always proud of got a better grade. that i was interested in other subjects like history of but also mathematics third health certain exact science. is being able to count yes the reason to calculate it very very my best advisors were physicists or mathematician i responded to forms i never recruited politician columnists who were educated on the source of a problem is and thirty pollard was a bit more open. is german of the promise of a union so he could travel and they also offered to the possibility to start the united states so you did. education which is called master of public administration business and mr wrong your converse of that said that certain that when you were when you were pretty i was the youngest. central school of presidents of this is in

warsaw and i was i was over this opportunity so i spent almost two years in new york. did you have an opportunity to complete your reforms well all that there was in the visit by the by the an adulterer was planned was it all done was it all i have been told by my friend because i have three years initially and with the team saw we have advance basic reforms liberalizing the economist and started to this basic institutions stock exchange starting privatization so i was in a better situation proper legal point of view but of course even three years is not enough so i have the second stage between two like ninety seven and two thousand and i have i was also a deputy prime minister we have accelerated some other reforms well in transition

from state to market economy russia too had to go through some very painful reforms spotlight to me that has more in that. words like inflation or unemployment were very distant to reality for the so that people low prices and decent wages were guaranteed by the state starting the nineteen eighties when the world was hit by an oil crisis it was harder and harder to keep things the way they were mikhail gorbachev came up with very strong but the reforms he introduced did not bring relief after the fall of the soviet union the jolts in government came up with the so-called shock therapy the author of the radical reforms he grew gaidar remains a controversial figure for russians in one thousand nine hundred two prices were freed and the savings of millions of people devalued overnight industries had to

adapt to new market economy ruined their lack of state support led to massive job losses millions would shift into poverty. their supporters say there was simply no alternative to this type of critical change to save people money from to the disaster and the country from civil war ordinary people had to learn to survive in the new economic reality and some are still unable to be philosophical about the reforms to them it was just two worst time in their lives. you might gorbachev in ninety ninety one first just i was the first one in politician who came with the official visit to russia just after this failed call after the coup after. i met you talked to him what was his opinion on the reforms that you were carrying out in poland and he was very

polite. also but he was the crazy that i don't know i can't somehow but certainly he said he was very much interested in the policy experience he invited me to come later but when i came for the second time it was the same night of our doors or the change in russia i talked to i spoke to two year old son and two you go gaidar interest the man we've discussed what i was russia mentoring to listen is it true that yeltsin when you met him in ninety one was ready to offer you any job any salary if you only stayed in russia but you but you but you chose to go to poland is that true i thought this was just supposed very polite way of expressing his appreciation so literally speaking to said but i never considered this to be more than just a very kind. kind words that certainly we have. imported an

interesting conversation. he was at the time in citizen and person. and he asked me what is going to be in phase. and i bought in russia wants to liberalize i remember i told them higher than forecast that not. theirs was the polish experience though. and says. the former polish deputy prime minister spotlight will be back shortly we'll continue this interview after a short break south don't go away stay with us. wealthy british scientists not. the time to explain.

markets why not. come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max concert for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into cars a report on our. mind in motion would be so much brighter if you knew me by sun from fines to pressurize. stock totty dot com.

welcome back to spotlight i'm al green of and just a reminder that my guest in the studio today is less should bow to rummage the former polish deputy prime minister the man who reformed poland in the late one nine hundred eighty s. and the ninety's as a matter of fact lashing poland's annual growth rate is not in nine hundred eighty nine two thousand was any of the highest in all post communist economies on the contrary ngai there is russia you said you followed a guy that was reforms and you met the guy down and he yeltsin going to shove the guy just before his lead to lead russia to the big. economic slump since world war two so what was the reason the the difference in the initial conditions of the reforms or the methods or maybe something else and i think it's a mistake to blame god as reforms for this recession because the recession was due

to documentation of problems under communism distorted economy i understand that i mean and many people have been have a few nostalgia for this all ties about this whole case could not have been meant it was a collapsing economy first second to say or the knowledge that you have in poland possibilities to introduce more reforms the need russia initially so we have introduced more treatment. economists with problems like sick patients so you need a treatment if you introduce less treatment you have less effects of certain diseases or problems were delayed and accumulated why why did you have this possibility which go there because the country is bigger wide were it was there was . a huge progress for iraq there was even more you have still you have constitutional problems the constitution conflict. the problem of

negotiating falling borders so i think this was the start reason i'm asking i'm not blaming it on the guy and i understand that but what i see where when i was when i was expecting here in the studio i read about your reforms there realized that gaidar copied a lot from what you did but not everything worked as smoothly as with as in poland . events or lessons in the specific role of polish and russian if you have hyperinflation. you have to act it's very dangerous will be karma and for the people so you have to act very decisively and quickly this is the safest strategy so we have did it area and without much of the day i think there was for political reasons probably all small day in russia does one difference we have liberalized the common much more massively there was less less liberalization if you liberalise less you have less competition and you have oligarchs. less competition we had

bluegrass much more and you don't have this problems which is referred to as politically connected all the gox is it true that poles in general are more business minded than russia and i don't think that they have always been more ready to start making money now no i don't think so that culture matters on march first of all conditions in every society you have enough intrapreneur your people so far the differences in conditions for them if you have more regulations less freedom less opportunity. don't use this potential to the same extent as in countries which have introduced more freedom this is the basic difference you know what some people say they say that they say that each introduce shop turkey and gaidar turned it into shock without terribly knowing about it is more than just. sounds good that does not reflect the truth the truth is ok. listen you are here now

does that in i mean russia and moscow does that mean the russian policy makers the russian projections are still they still need your advice they still interested in your experience in poland well this is not my advice personally because i say said there are certain universal lessons if you have too much state as an owner that's bad both for the economy and for politics so you have to privatized the true needs you d. politics as the economy if you phrase. ten percent a year like in russia it's too high so the central bank has to lower interest and that's possible we had an event i became the central banker in the year two thousand and one inflation also daft ten percent but in five years time we brought it down to two percent so it's possible that there are universal lessons and i don't think it is very difficult to learn about what what's absolutely crucial it's a political will to draw to use these universal lessons do you think that the

main problem with russia is that the economy in russia is too politicized we should be politicized at the granary certainly there are problems there usually because of excessive politicization in various ways russia has actually been a very political country you know you. judge your history but you know bacterial it's. a it seems to me that when i read your history that you're on the way at the rate of one thousand century early twentieth century to become democratic capitalistic country did something and accident happen and well it didn't work. or call it but now. ok now there is there is a good crowd about about what you did with your own country or again this parliament proved to be the only evil country where the current world economic crisis didn't cause an economic slump is it true and what was this polish recipe

for success if it's true that we have avoided recession meaning negative growth that we had not avoided a slowdown the rate of growth two thousand and eight was five percent decrease fallen to one point seven but not negative still positive why. so combination of sector several factors first we have avoided the credit boom if you have a credit bull then you will usually have a doest this was the case in the baltics in in spain in russia too there was excessive girls of credit in russia so we had avoided this apps because the central banking problem was pretty conservative and b you sound regulation to all second. we are russia for example depends in exports. on commodities oil and gas and they and their prices are rising and falling we dock fortunately we don't have so much natural resources in poland so our economy is

much more diversified this is the second place i think important reason the third one is that policy khana when it comes when you compare the polish economy parlance you can i would the baltics even hungary policy economy is much larger so we depend much stress on foreign shocks rachael's you know. fortunately you don't have a lot of natural resources i once talked to the prime minister of albania and i was amazed when i knew they had a lot of oil you have a lot of oil in the well being yeah and i asked him how come there is so much oil in use poor and he said you know. when god gave some countries lots of oil they unfortunately didn't give them enough grains and he looked at me. and how terrorists are. patient here they are victim to a show as a matter of fact some people say that there are predictions that for example saudi

oil minister here money said that that that given the political situation well what price can go two to two to three hundred dollars there pretty soon wouldn't be very bad for a little kid who was produced the shock to important country was not very good the longer around. the world this would strengthen scent of still be less dependent on oil so in the longer run it will do not be very good for exporting countries. so for russia this such such crisis could be even damaging so soon they will weaken incentives to reform what industries are growing today contemporary poland what are the main industries stream and diversified and you could never plan. interesting note don't try to plan what industries will be successful because this usually favors these national champions are national losers not national champions what we do three traits we liberalize but we did not try to defend and share so that equal

conditions so that you can get a van to market the their interest there are acting on the competition. shaping the structure so we are exporting bass at all so all some electronics furniture foodstuffs etc are very diversified. president medvedev in russia today likes to talk about innovation the skulk of the project he says that innovation is the key to success do you agree do you think that that economic growth should be based on and the variation and doesn't doesn't the japanese example show that it then it's questionable but you know i think innovation is the most importantly universal source of growth barbecue is what to do to have regular you know vacations and for that you need lots of competition. you need a limited state you need to rule of law so that people would have certain they

could confidence trust to invest into research into investments or you can get innovation basic common if you create the proper. conditions for for that. any solution you can propose to the current euro zone crisis like like is subsidizing poor countries by countries like germany is that the only way out. certain and not the longer term solution. it's useful to stress the eurozone problems are in fact problems resulting from that policies for of certain countries greece because they were they were expanding their fiscal expenditures until they became bankruptcy it is not the fault of europe but because that's the fault of that policies in greece in spain in current dollars that too much credit generated by the presence of

a private sector also they were boom and bust at that affected their fiscal positions or their main conclusion is that europe in itself is not at fault but your door requires much better policies from the members meaning more discipline. less boom and their problems lost and i think the conclusion would be in their respective countries to create better framework for better policies they vote accidents. the this is this is interesting i mean a former soviet country minister trying to teach us all the it took you on the. ball so showing to teach the europeans to be disciplined this is a little bit of the ball that was the most stupid in europe to do it in this crisis is the baltics above the baltic sea diving are also all stuff for. the guardian soldiers and also x. so there is a lot to keep cheating the west concerts ok thank you thank you very much for being with us it was fun talking to you just to remind you that my guest in the studio today was less shark bites at all which in the form of polish deputy prime minister

and that's it for now from all of us here will be back with more for some comments on what's going on in and outside russia until then stay on our team and take it thank you thanks to. download the official anti happily cation to you on the phone on my pod touch from the top story. watch on t.v. life on the go. video on demand on t.v.'s mine gold costs and all russians feeds now in the palm of your. question on the dot com.

as fierce fighting continues in libya french lawyers gear up for a battle of their own by trying to prosecute president sarkozy with war crimes over the military intervention the alleged nato uses depleted uranium shells and bombed residential buildings causing civilian deaths including children. palestine's bid for statehood gains worldwide support made threats of the us will block of the move in the un palestinian president mahmoud abbas is to request for u.n. membership during his speech to the general assembly on friday. the e.u. and belgrade to seek a diplomatic solution to the intense standoff in northern kosovo between ethnic serbs in kosovo albanians over the border controls pristina seized the disputed checkpoints from local control leading to a deployment of nato troops to keep the peace. and now we head to our washington studio for a look at president obama's new deficit reduction plan on the show.