i know what's really happening to the global economy with much stronger no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on our. past the hour here in the russian capital with our. top stories attention to the u.n. summit in new york. palestine. for statehood later today but all this despite obama's promise to veto any favorable outcome. called area romania denied a european a visa free travel despite previous promises some member states say the two countries need to sort out the corruption and crime issues first. hand as america puts more deadly drones in the skies over africa critics say it's an attempt to

make the world a safer place certainly driving more people towards terror. and the looming up this world markets are in for a day of decline with american and asian stocks leading the slump the gloomy picture prompting fears of a double dip recession. stay with us here at. this time a to discuss and latest crackdown on government protesters in yemen and what will be the international community's reaction to that crosstalk. here in the faraway land where human life is ruled by nature. there's no use to planet earth is scarcely preserved by the poor. it's like here in the deep permafrost. down to those who do with. storage

times are still not to. keep. a low in welcome to cross talk on people about yemen or failing state unfolding in front of our eyes protests around the country demand regime change while at the same time the death toll grows why isn't there more international condemnation of the yemeni was and why is yemen treated differently as the arab revolutions continue. to take. students. across documents limbo i'm joined by mohamed kobach in london he's a member and spokes person for the yemeni national council also in london we have

john reed he is a national officer at stop the war coalition and in washington he crossed with vaster david newton he's an adjunct scholar at the middle east institute all right gentlemen this is cross talk to me as you can jump in anytime you want but first i want to go to moscow here why is yemen being treated differently would say from syria and libya that's right peter for months now the international community has watched another arab country descent into civil strife anti-government demonstrations began last january and accompanied those in tunisia when three months later nato started bombing libya to protect civilians dozens were being killed in yemen and government crackdown. and following more deaths in sun this week to political rhetoric means no solution in sight we call on old to desist from the violence to come to an agreement for political transition yemen. with tens of thousands yemenis protesting against president ali abdullah saleh is thirty three you know we flick mounting discontent over his repeated refusal to hand over

power those of us who've spoken with him know that you know the commitment he has made and he should chance popal and really should sign the agreement on top of a beleaguered regime yemen is faced with a host of complex internal challenges even valley and in the north a growing secessionist movement in the south accompanied by deep tribal divides dire economic conditions and fierce competition among the political elites. while experts warned of the protests could push the country to the brink yemen still seems to be too dangerous a case changer fear and primarily because it is believed to house one of the world's most dangerous branches of al qaeda we're obviously concerned about the instability in yemen we consider al qaeda in the arabian peninsula which is largely located in yemen could be perhaps the most dangerous of all of franchises of al qaida right now the uprising in yemen presents a predicament for the u.s.

replacing a bestselling government means losing a dependable ally in its counterterrorism strategy but also for the chance to build a genuinely democratic state converse play ignoring popular sentiment could result in far worse instability and possibly a breeding ground for extremism. oh have a killer well very interesting for that thank you for that mohammed if i go to you first that i think the word that was brought up here and not just report is the lemma because if you look at mainstream media you know we either have it's a civil war and we should all stay out of it and oh by the way what's more important to look at is al qaeda and it seems to me and maybe i'm wrong and maybe you'll correct me but all we hear about is about security threats to the west losing an ally and there's not much said about the people on the ground people that are dying every single day but the into there's very little international condemnation except for that he should go how do you comment on that. first i would like. a new disease and all this and this in for my friend. david newton was in or

along. and old hand in yemen and he also was the great decorated in yemen at one time. i think yes i do have people here at least some from president obama saying that he is siding with the uprising and with their many people's choice but unfortunately what we have been hearing for many months now mostly lip service for such an uprising we have never seen an actual action on the ground till now i mean the president and his into ridge have not yet faced any sanctions and. we have. i'm sorry let me let me jump in here i mean what is it is that just because of the war on terrorism the u.s. and its allies decided this real or imagined threat of al qaeda in yemen is far more important then democratic values in protecting the rights of people on the

ground i'm sorry to be very straightforward it is advocate yes yes yes yes i don't think that's only the kiss i think the our friends in the united states have left this file in order for it to be treated or to be confronted by c.n.n. specially our neighbors the saudis and the saudis have been a little bit hesitant as regards you know their position i mean they have been reports of one kind of they're worried about the crystallizing the president but we have been hearing reports that sometimes the family the people who are you know are having second thoughts about that ok well. let's talk about saudi arabia later because there are reports that the saudis are arming this regime here david if i can go to you again we started out with the program with the word dilemma i mean what is the dilemma washington has right now because it would seem to me the more they try to pursue their war on terror and al qaeda in yemen the more it creates terror that needs to be fired you see what i mean it's like

a vicious circle. yes i'm not sure that's true quite now after all the yemeni army and yemeni government is fire fighting al qaeda down in the south and we have used drones we have a common enemy and fortunately they've made themselves a better target by concentrating down there with the u.s. has done quite a bit the american ambassador along with his european union colleagues specially the german have tried very hard it's a tough situation it's difficult the president is kind of a difficult target you think you have a commitment and it's gone but we understand that. even if he was helpful to us in some regards in the past is is fundamentally gone and that there has to be a new regime but it's going to take a collective effort by a lot of people and the g.c.c. in the end i would hope would come through with some substantial economic

assistance to help the country there are a lot of different factions in that country and they're not united fortunately there's the vice president i think everybody hopes will now be able to play a more and more useful role and we hope fairly soon with luck the you might get an agreement ok well that's a word hope doesn't seem to help the people of yemen very much john if i can go to you has the u.s. decided made its choice its much prefer to use its drones go killing i said real or imagined elements of al qaeda in yemen and just ignore everything that the west says it believes about the arab revolutions the arab awakening because it seems like just an enormous amount of duplicity and we've seen the west in this part of the world duplicity is that the first word that comes to mind. yes it's obvious that the american spokespeople and most generally in the west can't say that they prefer. the devil they don't know but it's equally clear from their actions that if

they have decided that sollars day has passed they can't find that alternative and so they're sticking with the devil they know rather than trying to do anything fundamental about it but in many ways that may be an advantage for the yemeni people after all the so-called assistance that the west gave for the revolution in libya actually transformed it pro people's uprising into an internal colony of the western powers and i don't think anybody wants to see that happen to the yemeni revolution he's a so i think there's a hard and bloody road ahead for yemen he's put they may end up being grateful that the indecision of the western powers and their inability to find an interlock that in yemen gives them a spy satellite kind with the solid coach chip on their own on their own terms ok let's talk about saudi in a second here mohamed if i can go back to you let me go ahead jump in go ahead. i've. read you what is mr ambassador go ahead.

yeah i don't know if anyone has found an interlocutor and i don't know if anyone thinks that ali abdullah saleh whatever he has done in the past really has a political future in the country this is a delicate dance to try to to get him replaced with a new government but there are many people interested in replacing him but there's no plea clear spokesman and it's not up to the outside world i think to choose the new person ok mohammed i don't know that's all right john and real quick go ahead go ahead that's true but when people use phrases like you know we have there is no single spokes where we have no into locked up or frankly what business is it of yours and there's no one spokesman you know i could. states there's no single voice in the united kingdom these are divided by political differences that's how it should be ok but i do let me ask you what i mean let me ask you a question before we go to the break here i mean one of the things you know is

a western media mainstream media will say it's the regime and protesters but really what's going on is that there's a lot of rivalries within the elite itself ok where you have different people who have defected from the president that have paid position of power in the security forces in the military so this is more of a civil war at the top isn't it. just let me be fair the answer for that first peter i would like just to point out a not from from ground experience in or the confrontation with the islamists or the extremists or my level of saddam has pushed to click. of the past in or two or three months has shown that actually and the unit which had been trained by the americans did not take part in confronting those islamists it was the defected army and the people who have every confidence actually confronted the islamists in abyan you know ali abdullah saleh has got some units around nearly five to ten thousand and they're never at all confronted the extremists and again so from from

experience underground it shows that the people who are going to come these you also on the on the ground now they're democrats they're people asking for a civilian government and for democracy they're not going to be siding with our padda that's one of the mistakes which our friends in and as i said are. welcoming in the people who are going to come there will never poll be siding with a paddle of the islamists it is it is one of those fallacies which i think our friends in the states now realize that the point is to make here is that our people are the people in the west and they have got to learn a new way of dealing with yemen with why always they want to deal with one person they have got to deal with institutions we are trying to build institutions and the west have got to learn to. get involved and address institutions of getting just out of crowds of detroit as well in that the countries of the middle east so building institutions is one of the ends of the revolution now in the

a man and a lot of people there on the ground who are democrats who are protestant in their mind and who are open or are looking for. here to be talking about if you can build civil society during the civil war after a short break we'll continue our discussion and stay active. if. there is any.

sense. can. welcome back to crossfire computer lavelle to remind you we're talking about humans quagmire. q. ok john i'd like to go back to you the gulf cooperation countries that you live in

a lot of people put a lot of faith in what they can do and you negotiate an end to the crisis and and yemen but i mean saudi arabia isn't the biggest friend of the arab spring the arab awakening whatever term you like and there are reports that the saudis are arming this regime and we have to remember that the united states trained and gave technical assistance and who else who knows what else to this regime after the attack on the u.s.s. cole back in two thousand so here's a regime that is very sophisticated quote unquote in dealing with anti-terrorism and you have saudi arabia giving at least tacit support maybe a whole lot more but doesn't bode well for any kind of democratic values and institutions and civil society i would say in yemen does it. well no i think if we are assessing the stance of the saudi arabian regime we have to start with the fact that it was the key instrument in crushing the bahraini revolution system to the bahraini ruling class to the extent they physically eradicated the pro round about where the protests were taking place and continue their own their own population

and they did this with the full knowledge and assistance of the united states the gulf cooperation council is emerging as the as the locus of came to revolution in the middle east that is that the term an opponent of the arab revolutions it will either by or crush the revolutions where where it can and so i think looking for help from this direction is profoundly misguided ok david if i go to you dear how do you how do you see the position of the united states and its allies in the gulf in dealing with is he doing the right thing or is doing too much too little or should be doing something different. ok let me say first of all i don't think we're in a civil war fortunately there's a lot of violence but it hasn't collapsed into a civil war i agree with mohamed there we need to deal with institutions and help build it up and we've tried that over the years the united states has a dilemma. it's not clear which way to go and mainly our effort has been to try to

find an agreement among the parties and there are people don't sell the yemenis short they're armed very many people in the middle in the government looting the vice president the foreign minister who's here in the united states other ministers are working very mr mr ambassador i mean the fact of the matter is the fact of the matter is the vice president of yemen has no power whatsoever he hasn't been delegated any powers whatsoever i mean it's a fig leaf here ok i mean the fact of the fact of the matter is a point is you have to the matter is the president wants to make sure his. children his sons remain in some kind of power position in yemen that's the negotiating point let's not his departure it's about his family's control of yemen in the future that's what it's about isn't it well these are not the only people who want to be or in the government there are the smart family general

a lot more there are many people to deal with and you've got to find a way forward and the opposition i think is now more united it's trying hard so don't sell the yemenis short they are intelligent people and they're there are this is a very difficult situation but it is not hopeless mommy do you think there should be a western intervention into yemen like we've seen like like libya and what the saber rattling we've heard about possibly going into syria would you want that to happen. just one point i think the saudis have got to realize well i mean the case in yemen is different from from from the terrain and then we just want to remind the world we have received one million refugees from from somalia and that is the gulf agency but i think if civil war god forbid breaks in yemen saudi is prepared to receive millions suffer if it is into their country into some borders which you have disputed till ten years ago so that's a that should be

a good reminder for our brothers in saudi arabia to take a positive stance towards preventing yemen from falling into chaos and anarchy then as regards your your point just a minute what was the point. what was your the question you asked me the question i asked you use you think there should be a western military intervention into yemen because i mean look i mean well i mean we've already brought it up on the program here in the west won't do any for the people anything for the people of bahrain it did apparently do something for the people of libya will see that was a good idea in the longer term but what about your country what about yemen would you like to see a no fly zone for example ok ok peter let me just compare and contrast libya and yemen yes i would like to see and not fly zone but we don't want any aircraft to be actually in the in the in the air hitting people or hitting our you know some sports in the ground we just want unauthorized on like it was once i mean you cannot have a no fly zone without military force i'm sorry it's impossible not to i don't know

they had it in iraq they had it in iraq come on. peter just what i meant we don't know. no no no that's simply wrong let me. jump in let's remember let's remember what the no fly zone in iraq meant no fly zone in iraq meant the destruction of rebel forces in the course of the game are the. prize. in the south it meant the attack on the kurds in the north after the first gulf war it was the preparation for sanctions it became the preparation for the for the military intervention in iraq so please please please do not let's play no fly zone in iraq because if this was a neutral cover which assisted the opposition to saddam hussein it could not. be let out of happened that is something different what happened what happened letter

is different and comparing the not fly zone which was imposed in iraq to what happened in libya libya do you and you know it is allusion was not not not flowers on it was also to protect civilians on the ground we don't want protection of the civilians we are underground we think that we have got. the revolution is have got more power than the energy to confront it on the ground with just what it is that they're going to intervene with fixed plans or with helicopters as it is happening they have been bought bundy think i have which is only thirty forty kilometers north of samarra and there was more than three hundred people killed there what do you mean yes i would like to see not fly zone but i would like to see what you know not what not to did in libya there were actually leaving the forces there were here think about it on the ground we don't want them to leave not the u.s. i don't actually know. what the we just want them to put him there but he has one for everybody from flying and hitting people go ahead. everybody who starts down

this road where there was the kurds in iraq or whether it was the t.n.c. in libya everybody who starts down the road saying we just want so much and no further from the imperial powers we don't want this we only want that they end up being present prisoners of these powers they end up handing over the resources their country and the control of their government to powers in the west and john john that's a far fetched think we actually want them to. live through a no fly zone before the no fly zone is one don't just start out with an embargo on on weapon imports in yemen we want to see their assets frozen when they see. all right good to see you and sometimes you. guys on david he's been very patient go mr ambassador really i really think we need to get to the fundamental issue what are we trying to do in yemen and what are the young anymore trying to do what they're trying to do is in a difficult situation get a negotiated peaceful solution if we want a civil war or a war of one side to conquer the other i don't think yemenis want that they will i

don't think the opposition or they want to get together a change of government but done by a peaceful resolution among the different parties. well how much is that possible but we have it when i apply here or in iraq we have seen we have seen what happened you know we have got this you know this is the initiative it was about to be implemented and the forces came just to stop the doj from the it's implementation they're happy and are well ready to take the country into a diversion of a civil war so we know that we want as we have said we want to be treated the same way we have never seen the real place of underage until now as a relation i mean to say that unfortunately even for david i'm sorry for for peter our friends in russia had been killed two weeks three weeks ago are sending you know weapons to samarra this is something we're also seeing is it is easier said mohammed i am not a spokesperson for the russian government however there is was another me finish

and you brought it up there's a lot of people in the world that are very very skeptical now of the united nations using these resolutions are no fly zone one day and then you had boots on the ground the second day ok there's a lot of people the majority of the people the world are very concerned about how western powers violate the sovereignty of other countries could you could you like to comment on that john well let me get this this this is the cloth and i mean nobody can say that it couldn't start with exactly these kind of phrases in libya and you end up what you end up with you end up with the former colonial powers in north africa france and. britain with sarkozy and cameron bragging about how they've helped the revolution in libya despite the chaos around them they have to get in bright and get out quick before anything worse how can the very last and i agree with mohammed about this the yemenis do have the power to settle accounts with the seller to ship and the key principle here is the people who do the

fighting get through the running of the country afterwards we've seen it again and again if it's one hundred first airborne or u.s. a.f. or the aria of the french air force they get to control the country afterwards. the yemenis themselves like the egyptians like the tunisians whatever the political differences amongst them they're the people who get through the liberating and then people get to run their country afterwards mr ambassador david if you could you know let me go to david here david where we have one minute left here let's get i'm going to give you a hypothetical you are going to the country if the country were to collapse what would be the implications for the region and maybe keeping in saudi arabia in mind here go ahead well i think mamma does mention one reason there may be large numbers of refugees try to go to saudi arabia but i don't expect their country to collapse and there's a long term serious problems but i think the yemenis despite the fact that there are elements on both sides they don't really want a solution or stopping the fighting except on their terms i still believe the can

reach a peaceful change of government. will have to turn over power ok mohamed i'm going to give you the last word what is your appeal to international public opinion go ahead get the last word let me just i want to say one sentence which was appeared by the national council. chairman of the human rights council it says without intervention yemen will explode and this explosion will spill over into the neighboring region and international trade routes action must be taken to prevent the classes from spreading and becoming beyond repair all right. many thanks to my guest today in washington and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember rostock rules.