this is our team from moscow thanks for being with us money was kevin owen let me take you through our top stories tonight palestinian leader mahmoud abbas submit the bid for full statehood to the u.n. chief shortly before addressing the general assembly in new york that's despite the u.s. promise to veto the bid in the security council. and chaos breaks out on the israeli palestinian port or with stones and bullets flying across the checkpoint and a palestinian shot dead and several wounded in clashes with israeli soldiers. also fears of a double dip global recession intensify in the wake of first these huge markets plunge that spared no one from asia the debt ridden europe asia and european

markets ended their worst week since two thousand and eight and the u.s. is heading in the same direction. also clashes between pro and anti-government forces in yemen intensify with the death toll from five days of violence reaching one hundred that's as the country's president returns to the emily capital three months after surviving an assassination attempt. more insight into the situation in yemen next than with peter viles cross-talk it is on air just half a minute from now. well see british science it's time to explain the. markets finance scandal. find out what's really happening to the global economy comes a report on our key. to kick. start

. the low in the welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle yemen a failing state unfolding in front of our eyes protests around the country demand regime change while at the same time the death toll grows why isn't there more international condemnation of the yemeni was and why is yemen treated differently as the arab revolutions continue. to take. to cross the caymans lembo i'm joined by mohamed kobach in london he's a member and spokes person for the yemeni national council also in london we have john rees he is a national officer at stop the war coalition and in washington we crossed when bassem david newton he's an adjunct scholar at the middle east institute all right gentlemen this is cross sometimes you can jump in anytime you want but first i want

to go to moscow here why is yemen being treated differently would say from syria and libya that's right peter for months now the international community has watched another arab country the sentence of civil strife anti-government demonstrations in yemen began last january and the company of those in tunisia when three months later a nato started bombing libya to protect civilians the thousands were being killed in yemen and government crackdowns and following more deaths in sana'a this week and two political rhetoric means no solution in sight. right we call on all sides to desist from violence to come to an agreement for a political transition in yemen. with tens of thousands yemenis protesting against president ali abdullah saleh is thirty three year old reflect mounting discontent over his repeated refusal to hand over power those of us who've spoken with him know that you know the commitment he has made and he should chance the policy of the should sign the agreement on top of a beleaguered regime yemen is faced with

a host of complex internal challenges the rebellion in the north a growing secessionist movement in the south a company by deep tribal divides dire economic conditions and fierce competition among the political elites. while experts warn the protests could push the country to the brink yemen still seems to be too dangerous a case to interfere and primarily because it is believed to house one of the world's most dangerous branches of all. we're obviously concerned about the instability in yemen we consider al qaeda in the arabian peninsula which is largely located in yemen could be perhaps the most dangerous of all of franchises of al qaeda right now the uprising in yemen presents a predicament for the u.s. replacing bestselling government means losing a dependable ally in its counterterrorism strategy but also for the chance to build a genuinely democratic state converse way ignoring popular sentiment could result

in far worse instability and possibly a breeding ground for extremism. they will have a little well very interesting for that thank you for that mohamed if i go to you first that i think the word that was brought up here in march is report his dilemma because if you look at mainstream media you know we either have it's a civil war and we should all stay out of it and obama way what's more important to look at is al qaeda and it seems to me and maybe i'm wrong and maybe you'll correct me that all we hear about is about security threats to the west losing an ally and there's not much said about the people on the ground people that are dying every single day but the end there's very little international condemnation except for that he should go how do you comment on that. first i would like just. an all business and for my friend did it david newton was a long time and that's the name of his and old hand in yemen and he also.

in yemen at one time. i think yes i do have people here at least some from president obama saying that he is siding with the uprising in with them in a people's choice but unfortunately what we have been hearing for many months now. is for such an uprising we have never seen an actual action on the ground till now i mean the president and his into it have not yet faced any sanctions and. we have. sorry let me let me jump in here i mean what is it is it just because of the war on terrorism the u.s. and its allies decided this real or imagined threat of al qaeda in yemen is far more important then democratic values of protecting the rights of people on the ground i'm sorry to be very straightforward it is that the case yes yes yes yes i don't think that's only the kids i think the friends in the united states have left

this file in or for it to be treated or to be confronted by c.n.n. specially our neighbors the saudis and the saudis have been a little bit hesitant as regards you know their position i mean they have been reported on kind of pressurising the president but we have been hearing reports that sometimes the family that people who are you know are having second thoughts about that ok well. let's talk about saudi arabia later because there are reports that the saudis are arming this regime here david if i can go to you again we started out with the program with the word dilemma i mean what is the dilemma washington has right now because it would seem to me the more they try to pursue their war on terror on al qaeda in yemen the more it creates terror that needs to be fired you see what i mean it's like a vicious circle. yes i'm not sure that's true quite now after all the yemeni army and yemeni government is fire fighting al qaida down in the south

and we have used drones we have a common enemy and fortunately they've made themselves a better target by concentrating down there with the u.s. has done quite a bit the american ambassador along with his european union colleagues especially the german have tried very hard it's a tough situation it's difficult the president it is kind of a difficult target you think you have a commitment and it's gone but we understand that. even if he was helpful to us in some regards in the past is is fundamentally gone and there has to be a newer jeem but it's going to take a collective effort by a lot of people and the g.c.c. in the end i would hope would come through with some substantial economic assistance to help the country there are a lot of different factions in that country and they're not united fortunately there's the vice president i think everybody hopes will now be able to play

a more more useful role and we hope fairly soon with luck you might get an agreement ok well that's the word hope doesn't seem to help the people of yemen very much john if i can go to you has the west decided made its choice its much prefer to use its drones killing i said real or imagined elements of al qaeda in yemen and just ignore everything that the west says it believes about the arab revolutions the arab awakening because it seems like just an enormous amount of duplicity and we've seen the west in this part of the world duplicity is the first word that comes to mind. yes it's obvious that the american people and those generally in the west can't say that they prefer. the devil they don't know but it's equally clear from their actions that if they have decided that sollars day has passed they can't find an alternative and so they're sticking with the government you know rather than trying to do anything fundamental about it but

in many ways that may be an advantage for the yemeni people after all the so-called assistance that the west gave for the revolution in libya actually transformed it from people's uprising into an internal call in the western powers and i don't think anybody wants to see that happen for the yemeni revolution he's a so i think there's a hard and bloody road ahead for yemen he's but they may end up being grateful but the indecision of the western powers and their inability to find an interlock to in yemen to give them the space to settle accounts with the solid takes ship on their own on their own terms ok let's talk about saudi in a second here mohamed if i can go back to you let me go ahead jump in go ahead. i've. read it is mr ambassador first go ahead. yeah i don't know if anyone is found an interlocutor and i don't know if anyone thinks that ali abdullah saleh whatever he has done in the past really has

a political future in the country this is a delicate dance to try to get him replaced with a new government but there are many people interested in replacing him but there's no plea clear spokesman and it's not up to the outside world i think to choose the new person ok mohamed i don't know that's already been real quick go ahead go ahead the other that's true but when people use phrases like you know we have there is no single spokesman we have no interlocutor or frankly what business is it of yours and there's no one spokesman in the united. states there's no single voice in the united kingdom these are divided by political differences that's how it should be ok michael let me ask you well i mean let me ask you a question before we go to the break here i mean one of the things you know you say western media mainstream media will say it's the regime and protesters but really what's going on is that there's a lot of rivalries within the elite itself ok we have different people who have

defected from the president that have people of power in the security forces in the military so this is more of a civil war at the top isn't it. just let me defend the answer for that first peter i would like just to point out a not from from ground experience in on the confrontation with the islamists or the extremists or my level of saddam has pushed to take over. of the past in or two or three months has shown that actually and the unit which had been trained by the americans did not take part in confronting those islamists it was the defected army and the people who have every confidence actually confronted the islamists in abyan you know ali abdullah saleh has got some units nearly five to ten thousand in the never at all confronted by the extremists in i.b.m. so from from experience underground it shows that the people who are going to come these you also on the on the ground now that democrats are the people asking for

a civilian government and for democracy they're not going to be siding with our powder that's one of the mistakes which our friends in the letter said are. all coming in the people who are going to come there were never at all beside him with a pad of islamists it is it is one of those fallacies which i think our friends in the states now realize the other point is to make here is that our people the people in the west and in they have got to learn a new way of dealing with them and would why always they want all of it to deal with one person they have got to deal with institutions we are trying to build institutions and the west have got to learn to. get involved and institutions of getting just out of crowds are good critters really in that the countries of the middle east so building institutions is one of the ends of the revolution now in yemen and a lot of people there on the ground who are democrats who are pro western in their mind and who are not looking for a journalist community here to be talking about if you can build civil society

during the civil war after a short break we'll continue our discussion and stay active. if. if it. was in the faraway land. where human life is ruled by nature. of planet earth is carefully preserved by the clear. things from the animals lie hidden in the deep permafrost. and for those who deal with them through stored times are still months over. first from. the. first.

welcome back to crossfire computer lavelle to remind you we're talking about yemen's quagmire. q. ok john i'd like to go back to you the gulf cooperation countries are going to have a lot of people put a lot of faith in what they can do in good negotiating an end to the crisis and and yemen but i mean saudi arabia isn't the biggest friend of the arab spring the arab awakening whatever term you like and there are reports that the saudis are arming this regime and we have to remember that the united states trained and gave technical assistance and who else who knows what else did this regime after the

attack on the u.s.s. cole back in two thousand so here's a regime that is very sophisticated quote unquote in dealing with anti-terrorism and you have saudi arabia giving at least tacit support maybe a whole lot more that doesn't bode well for any kind of democratic values and institutions and civil society i would say in yemen does it. well no i think if we are assessing the stance of the saudi arabian regime we have to start with the fact that it was a key instrument in crushing the bahraini revolution assisted the perine ruling class to the extent that they physically eradicated the pro round about where the protests were taking place and continue massacring their own their own population and they did this with the full knowledge and assistance of the united states the gulf cooperation council is emerging as the locus of counter revolution in the middle east that is that determined opponent of the arab revolutions it will either by or crush the revolutions where where it can and so i think looking for help from

this direction is profoundly misguided ok david if i go to you here how do you how do you see the the position of the united states and its allies in the gulf in dealing with this would be doing the right thing is doing too much too little or should be doing something different. ok let me say first of all i don't think we're in a civil war fortunately there's a lot of violence but it hasn't collapsed into a civil war i agree with mohamed there we need to deal with institutions and help build it up and we've tried that over the years the united states has a dilemma. it's not clear which way to go and mainly our effort has been to try to find an agreement among the parties and there are people don't sell the yemenis short they're armed very many people in the middle in the government looting the vice president the foreign minister who's here in the united states and other ministers are working very much for mr ambassador i mean the fact of the matter is

the fact of the matter is the vice president of yemen has no power whatsoever he hasn't been delegated any powers whatsoever i mean it's a fig leaf here ok i mean the fact of the fact of the matter is that point is you have the matter is the president wants to make sure his. children his sons remain in some kind of power position in yemen that's the negotiating point and it's not his departure it's not his family's control of yemen in the future that's what it's about isn't it well these are not the only people who want to be are in the government there are the alamar family general la mar there are many people to deal with and you've got to find a way forward and the opposition i think is now more united it's trying hard so don't sell the yemenis short they are intelligent people and they're there are this is a very difficult situation but it is not hopeless mohamed do you think there should be a western intervention into yemen like we see in like like libya and what all

of the. saber rattling we've heard about possibly going into syria would you want that to happen. just one point i think the saudis have got to realize i mean this is the case in yemen is different from from from the train and then we just want to remind the world we have received one million refugees from from somalia and that is the gulf of aden separating us in civil war god forbid breaks in yemen that saudi is prepared to receive millions of refugees into their country into some borders which were disputed till ten years ago so that to the trade be a good reminder for our brothers in saudi arabia to take a positive stance towards preventing yemen from falling into chaos and anarchy then as regards your your point just in mind what was the point. what was your question you asked me the question i asked use you think there should be a western military intervention into yemen so i mean just look i mean look i mean

we've already brought it up in the program here the west won't do any for the people anything for the people of bahrain it did apparently do something for the people of libya will see that it was a good idea in the longer term well what about your country what about yemen would you like to see a no fly zone for example ok ok peter let me just compare and contrast libya and yemen yes we would like to see a not fly zone but you don't want any aircraft to be actually in the in the air hitting your people or hitting our you know some sports in the ground we just want a no fly zone like it was once i mean you cannot have a no fly zone without military force i'm sorry it's impossible not to i don't know they had it in iraq they had it in iraq come on. peter just what i meant we don't. know less no no no that's simply wrong. and they are jumping let's remember let's remember what the no fly zone in iraq meant no fly

zone in iraq the destruction of rebel forces in the course of the more. rise. in the south it meant the attack on the kurds in the north after the first gulf war it was the preparation for sanctions it became the preparation for the for the military intervention in iraq so please please please do not let's have a no fly zone in iraq as if this was a neutral cover which assisted the opposition to saddam hussein it did not. let out what happens after something different what happened what happened letter is different and comparing the not fly zone which was imposed in iraq to what happened in libya and libya do you and you know it is allusion was not not not fly zone it was also to protect civilians on the ground we don't want protection of the civilians we are underground we think that we have got the revolution is have more power then the energy to confront it on the ground with just what is that they're

going to intervene with fixed plans or with helicopters as it has happened they have been bombed the i have which is only thirty forty kilometers north of samarra and there was more than three hundred people killed then what do you mean yes i would like to see not fly zone but i would not like to see what you know not what not to did in libya there were actually leading the forces there were here can come back here on the ground we don't want them to leave do not. actually know. we just want them to put him there but he has one time to put him through from flying and hitting people right john go ahead go ahead everybody who starts this road where there was the kurds in iraq or whether it was the t.n.c. in libya everybody who starts down the road saying we just want so much and no further from the imperial powers we don't want this we only want that here they end up being prisoners of these powers they end up handing over the resources their country and the control of their government to powers in the west and john john that's a far fetched thing we are we want them to. not fly zone we fought

a no fly zone this is one time to start out with an embargo on on weapon you know in court in yemen we want to see their assets frozen when they see. yes sometimes you hear a dish and eyes on david he's been very patient go mr masterly like i really think we need to get to the fundamental issue what are we trying to do in yemen and what are the trying to do what they're trying to do is in a difficult situation get a negotiated peaceful solution do we want a civil war or a war of one side to conquer the other i don't think yemenis want that they want i don't think the opposition will want to say they want to get together on a change of government but done by a peaceful resolution among the different parties. you know how much is that possible but we have. we have seen we have seen what happened you know we have got this you know this is the initiative it was about to be implemented and the forces

came just to stop the dog from the it's implementation they're happy and they're well ready to get the country into a diversion of the civil war so we know that we want as as we have said we want to be treated the same way we have never seen real pressure underage until now is our mission i mean to say that unfortunately even for david i'm sorry for for peter our friends in russia had been killed two weeks three weeks ago or sending you know weapons to someone this is something we want to thing is it really is a no harm and i am not a spokesperson for the russian government however and the reason was because of all let me finish it you brought it up there's a lot of people in the world that are very very skeptical now of the united nations using these resolutions a no fly zone one day and then you've got boots on the ground the second day ok there's a lot of people the majority of the people of the world are very concerned about how western powers violate the sovereignty of other countries could you would you like to comment on that john well let me what is this the this this is the pattern

i mean nobody can say that it couldn't start with exactly these kind of phrases in libya and you end up what you end up with you end up with the former colonial powers in north africa france. and britain woodstock cosi and cameron bragging about how they've helped the revolution in libya despite the chaos around them they have to get in brac and get out quickly for anything worse how can from the very last thing i agree with mohammed about this the yemenis do have the power to settle accounts with the dictatorship and that's the key principle here is the people who do the fighting get to through the running of the country afterwards we've seen it again and again if it's one hundred first airborne or u.s. a.f. or the aria or the french air force they get to control the country afterwards it's . the yemenis themselves like the egyptians like the tunisians whatever the political differences amongst them they're the people who get through the liberating they're the people who've got to run their country afterwards mr ambassador david let me go to david here david where do we have

a one minute left here let's get i'm going to give you a hypothetical you are to the country if the country were to collapse what would be the implications for the region and maybe keeping the saudi arabia in mind here go ahead well i think mamma does mention one reason there may be large numbers of refugees try to go to saudi arabia but i don't expect their country to collapse it has a long term serious problems but i think the yemenis despite the fact that there are elements on both sides they don't really want a solution or stopping the fighting except on their terms i still believe the mini's can reach a peaceful change of government. or will have to turn over power ok mohamed i'm going to give you the last word what is your appeal to the international public opinion go ahead get the last word let me just i want to say one sentence because in a letter appeared. to the chairman of the human rights council it says without intervention

yemen will explode and this explosion will spill over into the neighboring region and international pressure groups action must be taken now to prevent the crisis from spreading and becoming beyond repair all right we're going to end on that note many thanks to my guest today in washington and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember rostock rules.

the. man. would be so much brighter if you move out someone from funds to pressure in some. of these funds.