got com slash r t america you can follow me on twitter out lauren lester and you can tune in for more news in our behalf at seven pm. issues that so much. more human feeling state unfolding in front of our protests around the country to be seen change while at the same time that just. a charmer here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.

the they'll. if. you think the.

glow in the welcome to cross talk time peter lavelle yemen a failing state unfolding in front of our eyes protests around the country demand regime change while at the same time the death toll grows why isn't there more international condemnation of the yemeni regime and why is yemen treated differently as the arab revolutions continue. to. cross-talk yemen's limbo i'm joined by mohamed kobach in london he's a member and spokes person for the yemeni national council also in london we have john reed he is a national officer at stop the war coalition and in washington he crossed windass or david newton he's an adjunct scholar at the middle east institute all right gentlemen this is cross talk to me as you can jump in anytime you want but first i want to go to my show here why is yemen being treated differently would say from syria and libya that's right peter for months now the international community has watched another arab country descend into civil strife anti-government

demonstrations a lemond began last january and a company of those in tunisia when three months later in may to start a bombing libya to protect civilians dozens were being killed in yemen and government car bombs and following more deaths in sana'a this week and two political rhetoric means no solution in sight we call on old to desist from the violence to come to that agreement for political transition in yemen. tens of thousands yemenis protesting against president ali abdullah saleh is thirty three year old who fled the mounting discontent over his repeated refusal to hand over power those of us who've spoken with him know that he knows the commitment is yes mate and he should chance to. we should sign the agreement on top of a beleaguered regime yemen is faced with a host of complex internal challenges even vallium in the north a growing secessionist movement in the south accompanied by deep tribal divides

dire economic conditions and fierce competition and on the political elites. while experts warn that the protests can push the country to the brink yemen still seems to be too dangerous a case to interfere and primarily because it is believed to house one of the world's most dangerous branches of all kinds. we are obviously concerned about the instability in yemen we consider al qaeda in the arabian peninsula which is largely located in yemen to be perhaps the most dangerous of all of franchises of al qaida right now the uprising in yemen presents a predicament for the u.s. replacing the cell a government means losing a dependable ally in its counterterrorism strategy but also for the chance to build a genuinely democratic state conversely ignoring popular sentiment could result in far worse instability and possibly a breeding ground for extremism they have a future or very interesting thank you for that russia mohammed i go to you first

but i think the word that was brought up here in march is report is the lemma because if you look at mainstream media you know we either have it's a civil war and we should all stay out of it and oh by the way what's more important to look at is al qaeda and it seems to me and maybe i'm wrong and maybe you'll correct me but all we hear about is about security threats to the west losing an ally and there's not much said about the people on the ground people that are dying every single day but the end there's very little international condemnation except for that he should go how do you comment on that. first i would like just. all does in this and for my friend. david newton was in or a long time among us than him and his and all the hand in yemen and he also was the great because it did in yemen. i think yes i do happy to hear at least some from president obama saying that he is siding up with the uprising

and with their many people's choice but unfortunately what we have been hearing for him for many months now or service for such an uprising we have never seen an actual action or deeds on the ground till now i mean the president did it and he's into ridge has not yet faced any sanctions and any act. we have. i'm sorry let me let me jump in here i mean what is it is it just because of the war on terrorism the u.s. and its allies decided this real or imagined threat of al qaeda in yemen is far more important than democratic values and protecting the rights of people on the ground i'm sorry to be very straightforward that is that the case yes yes yes yes i don't think that's only the case i think the friends in the united states have left this file in or for it to be treated or to be confronted by the g.c.c. an especially our neighbors the saudis and the saudis had been

a little bit hesitant as regards you know their position i mean they had been reports at one time to pressurize and president but we have been hearing reports that sometimes the family that people who are in are having second thoughts about the ok well. we'll talk about saudi arabia later because there are reports that the saudis are arming this regime here david if i can go to you again we started our program with the word dilemma i mean what is the dilemma washington has right now because it would seem to me the more they try to pursue their war on terror on al qaeda in yemen the more it creates terror that needs to be fired you see what i mean it's like a vicious circle. yes i'm not sure that's true quite now after all the yemeni army and yemeni government is fire fighting al qaida down in the south and we have used drones we have a common enemy and fortunately they've made themselves a better target by concentrating down there but the u.s.

has done quite a bit the american ambassador along with the european union colleagues especially the german have tried very hard it's a tough situation it's difficult the president is kind of a difficult target you think you have a commitment and it's gone but we understand that. even if he was helpful to us in some regards in the past is is fundamentally gone and there has to be a new regime but it's going to take a collective effort by a lot of people and the g.c.c. in the end i would hope would come through with some substantial economic assistance to help the country there are a lot of different factions in that country and they're not united fortunately there's the vice president i think everybody hopes will now be able to play a more more useful role and we hope fairly soon with luck that you might get an agreement ok well that's all the word hope doesn't seem to help the people of yemen

very much john if i can go to you has the west decided choice it's much prefer to use its drones killing i said real or imagined elements of al qaeda and yemen and just ignore everything that the west says it believes about the arab revolutions the arab awakening because it seems like just an enormous amount of duplicity and we've seen the west in this part of the world a duplicity is the first word that comes to mind. yes it's obvious that the american spokespeople and those generally in the west can say that they prefer . the devil they don't know but it's equally clear from their actions that if they have this audit that sollars day has passed they can't find an alternative and so they're sticking with the devil they know rather than trying to do anything fundamental about it but in many ways that may be an advantage for the yemeni people after all the so-called assistance that the west gave to the revolution in libya actually transformed it pro people's uprising into an internal colony of the

western powers and i don't think anybody wants to see that happen to the yemeni revolution either so i think there's a hard and bloody road ahead for yemenis but they may end up being grateful that the indecision of the western powers and their inability to find an interlock to in yemen gives them the spy satellite kind with the solid chip on their own on their own terms ok we'll talk about so you know a second here mohamed if i can go back to you let me go ahead jump in go ahead i'm at yeah i know. what it is mr ambassador first go ahead. yeah i don't know if anyone is found an interlocutor and i don't know if anyone thinks that ali abdullah saleh whatever he has done in the past really has a political future in the country this is a delicate dance to try to get him replaced with a new government but there are many people interested in replacing him but there's

no plea clear spokesman and it's not up to the outside world i think to choose the new person ok mohammed i think that's already been real quick go ahead go ahead that whether that's true but when people use phrases like you know with there is no single spokesman or we have no interlocutor well frankly what business is it of yours that there's no one spokesman you know i could. states there's no single voice in the united kingdom these are divided by political differences that's how it should be ok but i do let me ask you let me ask you a question before we go to the break here i mean one of the things you know is a western media mainstream media will say it's the regime and protesters but really what's going on is that there's a lot of rivalries within the elite itself ok we have different people who have defected from the president that have people of power in the security forces in the military so this is more of a civil war at the top isn't it. just let me defend the answer for that first

peter i would like just to point out a not from from ground experience in on the confrontation with the islamists or the extremists on my level assad has pushed the click of a billion of the past in or two or three months has shown that actually and the units which had been trained by the americans don't take part in confronting those islamists it was the defected army and the people who have every concert hall of have actually confronted the islamists in abyan you know ali abdullah saleh has got some units around nearly five to ten thousand head and they're never at all confronted the extremist in abyan so from from experience on the ground it shows that the people who are going to come these you also on the underground now that democrats that people are asking for a civilian government and for democracy they're not going to be siding with al qaeda that's one of the mistakes which our friends in the letter said are. welcoming in the people who are going to come there will never have gone to

deciding with al qaeda or the islamists it is it is run of those fallacies which i think our friends in the states now realize the point is to make here is that our people are the people in the west and they have got to learn a new way of dealing with yemen why always they want only it could deal with one person they have got to deal with institutions we are trying to build institutions and the west have got to learn to. get involved and address institutions of getting just autocrats or deterred us ruling that the countries of the middle east so building institutions is one of the of the revolution now in yemen and a lot of people there on the ground who are democrats who are pro western in their mind and who are looking for. here to be a target if you can build civil society during the civil war after a short break we'll continue our discussion and stay parky.

kicking against spurs. and. lead loads of the weapons grade plutonium is turned into a vital new recently nuclear waste becomes a fuel searingly to the environment and energy outposts among ends of the earth russian scientists lead to weight in making these innovations our reality the engine of free from the fears of nuclear bunker lives the peaceful revolution and its homage energy technology obsolete we've got the future covered. a telemarketer broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.

live nation free liquid intake should be free comes for charges free to make amends free. free. free. download free bonne chance live video for your media projects c.e.o. don carty dot com. can. welcome back to crossfire computer labelle to remind you we're talking about humans quagmire live ok.

ok john i want to go back to you the gulf cooperation countries are going to have a lot of people put a lot of faith in what they can do in good negotiating an end to the crisis and and yemen but i mean saudi arabia isn't the biggest friend of the arab spring the arab awakening whatever term you like and there are reports that the saudis are arming this regime and we have to remember that the united states trains and gave chemical assistance and who else who knows what else to this regime after the attack on the u.s.s. cole back in two thousand so here's a regime that is very sophisticated quote unquote in dealing with anti-terrorism and you have saudi arabia giving at least tacit support maybe a whole lot more that doesn't bode well for any kind of democratic values and institutions and civil society i would say in yemen does it. well no i think if we are assessing the stance of the saudi arabian regime we have to start with the fact

that it was the key instrument in crushing the bahraini revolution system for the bahraini ruling class to the extent that they physically eradicated the pro round about where the protests were taking place and continue growing their own their own population and they did this with the full knowledge and assistance of the united states the gulf cooperation council is emerging as the locus of counter revolution in the middle east it is a good term and opponent of the arab revolutions it will either by or crush the revolutions where where it can and so i think looking for help from this direction is profoundly misguided ok david if i go to you how do you how do you see the the position of the united states and its allies in the gulf in dealing with this is doing the right thing and is doing too much too little or should be doing something different. ok let me say first of all i don't think we're in a civil war fortunately there's a lot of violence but it hasn't collapsed into

a civil war i agree with mohamed there we need to deal with institutions and help build it up and we've tried that over the years the united states has a dilemma. it's not clear which way to go and mainly our effort has been to try to find an agreement among the parties and there are people don't sell the yemenis short there are very many people in the middle in the government looting the vice president the foreign minister who's here in the united states and other ministers are working very much for mr ambassador i mean the fact of the matter is the fact of the matter is the vice president of yemen has no power whatsoever he hasn't been delegated any powers whatsoever i mean it's a fig leaf here ok i mean the fact of the fact of the matter is that point is you think the size of the matter is the president wants to make sure his. children his sons remain in some kind of power position in yemen that's the negotiating point it's not his departure it's about his family's control of yemen in the future

that's what it's about isn't it well these are not the only people who want to be or in the government there are the family general a lot more there are many people to deal with and you've got to find a way forward and the opposition i think is now more united it's trying hard so don't sell the yemenis short they're intelligent people and there there are this is a very difficult situation but it is not hopeless mohamed do you think there should be a western intervention into yemen like we see in like like libya and what the. saber rattling we've heard about possibly going into syria would you want that to happen. just one point i think the saudis have got to realize well i mean the case in yemen is different from from from the train and then we just want to remind the world we have received one million refugees from from somalia and it is. as if

civil war god forbid breaks in yemen that saudis prepare to receive million suffer if it is into their country into some borders which were distributed to ten years ago so that to be a good reminder for our brothers in saudi arabia to take a positive stance towards preventing yemen from falling into chaos and anarchy then as regards your your point just in one day what was the point. what was your question you asked the question i asked you use you think there should be a western military intervention into yemen because i mean look i mean i mean we've already brought it up on the program here the west won't do any for the people anything for the people of bahrain it did apparently do something for the people of libya will see that it was a good idea in the longer term but what about your country what about yemen would you like to see a no fly zone for example ok ok peter let me just compare and contrast libya and yemen yes we would like to see and not fly zone but we don't want any aircraft to be actually in the air hitting people or hitting our you know some sports in the

ground we just want a no fly zone like it was once i mean you cannot have a no fly zone without military force i'm sorry it's a fastball not i don't know they had it in iraq they had it in iraq come on. peter just what i meant we don't want to hear. no no no that's simply wrong let me. jump in let's remember let's remember what the no fly zone in iraq meant no fly zone in iraq because struction of rebel forces in the course of the more. rise. in size it meant the attack on the kurds in the north after the first gulf war it was a preparation for sanctions it became the preparation for the further military intervention in iraq so please please please do not let's play

a no fly zone in iraq as if this was a neutral cover which assisted the opposition to saddam hussein it ignored. the letter what happened that there is something different what happened what happened letter is different and comparing the not fly zone which was enclosed in iraq to what happened in libya and libya do you and you know it is allusion was not a no fly zone it was also to protect civilians on the ground we don't want protection of the civilians we are underground we think that we have got the revolutionaries have got more power then the gene to concentrate on the ground with just what is that they're going to intervene with fixed plans but with helicopters as it is happening they had been bundy bombarded than i have which is only thirty forty kilometers north of samarra and there was more than three hundred people killed there what do you mean yes i would like to see not fly zone but i would not like to see what you know not what not good in libya there were actually leading the forces there were here think i've got you on the ground we don't want them to leave you not i love the laser and i actually. thought he would just want them to

prevent them but he has one time to prevent them from flying again hitting people. everybody who starts down this road where that was the kurds in iraq or whether it was the t.n.c. in libya everybody who starts the road of saying we just want so much and no further from the imperial powers we don't want this we only want that it may end up being pressed prisoners of these powers they end up handing over the resources their country and the control of their government to powers in the west it's one drug that's a far fetched thing we add we want them to start we throw enough lies on before the no fly zone says one don't get to start out with an embargo on on weapon you know importing your men we want to see their assets frozen to see. yes sometimes you. guys on david he's been very patient go mr masterly i really think we need to get to the fundamental issue what are we trying to do in yemen and what are the trying to do what they're trying to do is in a difficult situation get

a negotiated peaceful solution if we want a civil war or a war of one side to conquer the other i don't think yemenis want that they will i don't think the opposition will want they want to get together and change of government but by a peaceful resolution among the different parties. you know how much is that possible but we have your we have seen we have seen what happened you know we have got this you know this is the initiative it was about to be implemented and the forces came just to stop the doj from its implementation they're happy and are well ready to take the country into a diversion of a civil war so we know that so we want as we have said we want to be treated the same way we have never seen the real place of underage until now is our mission i mean that to say that unfortunately even for david i'm sorry for for peter our friends in russia had been killed two weeks three weeks ago or sending you know let

close to summer this is something to thing is easier said mohammed i am not a spokesperson for the russian government however and the reason was because of the let me finish it you'd rather know there's a lot of people in the world that are very very skeptical now of the united nations using these resolutions a no fly zone one day and then you've got boots on the ground the second day ok there's a lot of people the majority of the people the world are very concerned about how western powers violate the sovereignty of other countries could you would you like to comment on that john well let's look at this this this is the pattern i mean nobody can say that it couldn't start with exactly these kind of phrases in libya and you end up what you end up with you end up with the former colonial powers in north africa france and britain with sarkozy and cameron bragging about how they've helped the revolution in libya despite the chaos around them they had to get in brac and get out quick before anything worse happened to them and the very last and

i agree with mohammed about this the yemenis do have the power to settle accounts with a solid dictatorship and that and the key principle here is the people who do the fighting get to do the running of the country afterwards we've seen it again and again if it's one hundred first airborne or u.s. a.f. or the aria of the french air force they get to control the country after with him . the yemenis themselves like the egyptians like the tunisians whatever the political differences amongst them they're the people who get through the liberating and they're the people who get to run their country afterwards mr ambassador david let me go to david here david where do we have a one minute left here let's give you a hypothetical you were invited to the country if the country were to collapse what would be the implications for the region and maybe keeping and maybe in my career go ahead well i think mamma does mention one reason there may be large numbers of refugees trying to go to saudi arabia but i don't expect the country to collapse of those long term serious problems but i think the yemenis despite the fact that

there are elements on both sides they don't really want a solution or stopping the fighting except on their terms i still believe the armies can reach a peaceful change of government. or will have to turn over power ok mohamed i'm going to give you the last word what is your appeal to the international public opinion go ahead get the last word let me just i want to say one sentence which. appeared council. chairman of the human rights council it says without intervention yemen explodes and this explosion spill over into the neighboring region and international trade groups action must be taken now to prevent the classes from spreading and becoming beyond repair. many thanks to my guest today in washington and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember rostock rules. long

live the weapons grade plutonium is turned into a vital new research nuclear waste becomes a fuel friendly to the environment energy outposts and ends of the earth russian science is leading the way in making these innovations a reality. free from fears of nuclear lives the peaceful revolution is homage energy technology obsolete we've got the future covered.