in the libyan conflict a prominent british journalist what he thinks of his nation's role in the intervention and simon jenkins is the guest in today's interview. i'm joined by simon jenkins author and journalist who now writes for the guardian newspaper someone to speak to r.t. now you've written extensively criticizing the way the intervention in libya has been handled what was wrong with it was it wrong to begin with or do you view of course during the process yes anything wrong with the way it was handled i just didn't you should have taken place in the first place. i do not believe that sovereign states have a legal right or an obligation or a duty to interfere in other sovereign states is written into the united nations charter this is not a country that threaten britain didn't threaten any of its neighbors and invaded in the neighbor it was going about its own business which is not a revolution it was. said you think the original justification preventing

a massacre in benghazi was that not entirely true that i'm sure last of things were done in benghazi nasty things happen all over the world. the excuse that there might have been something nasty about to happen the justification for invading to be invading a country and bombing its capital is i find quite extraordinary it's an it's a noble concept of clearly there were other interests in play in libya there of the oil on. the mediterranean they were lighter skinned people i mean all the kind of things you can't live by british foreign policy. there was no justification for it except the theory that there would have been a massacre had we not gone it in benghazi there's all teary motives things like leaks to oil contracts that are now being forced you know more important then than say preventing loss of human life well i would if we were going to go in wherever there's a possible loss of human life we're going to go invading countries all over the world all the time i'm assuming more than

a cynic i think i know there are mixed motives and always interventions we tend to intervene in countries where we think we might win you know moral attitude we tend to really be interesting countries were. we have some interest in this critical but we tend to intervene where we think i think there's almost quick glory to be hired as was the case i think in iraq and clearly was the case here there are always mixed motives but i think we always need to examine all motives and ask ourselves a simple question are we going to do good rather than harm in this case it seems we've done good but that was by no means guaranteed the fact of the matter was it was not our country has gone to plan and this is the claim they thought they were going to get quick lawry did last a bit longer than they thought but some of the yet as well i mean they came close to panicking i mean they thought bombers could do the trick bombs can never do the trick they said they would do the trick in baghdad they didn't they said do the trick and belgrade they didn't bomb was never do the trick after a few months of it clearly not working they decided to put in gret what is

effectively ground troops and special forces went away over the place they did what i think probably they should on the very beginning which say that we want this one over quickly it will be over quickly if we go in with ground troops as was the creation kosovo and eventually after six months they did indeed when there's no good pretending this was done by the libyans it was done by western forces. britain's role in this as you just mentioned they had special forces on the ground but we haven't know the full extent of that because it wasn't even legitimate in the first place was it well i mean we wrote the u.n. resolutions concern i mean we this is entirely our doing i mean we we decided to do that we felt reasons for doing that we decided that we're going to be a massacre in benghazi we decided we need a u.n. resolution written the certain way we claim to be going to protect civilians will be in the moment. i mean the things that were done were done with the intention of justifying a pretty stringent wave of libya. i'm assuming that we'll know much more over time

because all the special forces will start writing their memoirs as they always do the mission creep was saying hey was it planned do you think or is it just an inevitable unavoidable consequence of intervention i think it's a very difficult question mission creep. invariably when it happens in the great cases it was in buddhism bowls now people say at the beginning we we won't let this happen we are only going into a humanitarian relief would have been might be in this case we were only going in to save the citizens of bengal and from breaking into the circle that would have been pretty unpleasant things that push a little. bit of the back of everyone's mark why the army so reluctant. is the knowledge that mission creep always happens when you cannot control the situation on the ground. you've got to be prepared for the worst because the worst is what usually happens now in this case it was looking a real mess and all the very end the very end you got special forces surrounding tripoli they didn't just get lucky even they used may fourth of using helicopters

they were using british weapons to bash through walls and everything in the end we did what we probably should go to the beginning which would make sure we were going to lose when david cameron and nicolas sarkozy visited tripoli recently they were given a hero's welcome people cheering chanting then lang's wanted to shake their hands saying it was all good for them. was it something they wanted and expected i think just totally ill judged i mean it was clearly a triumph. very soon to trump a bit when the interest of the heart. you can't pretend it wasn't from the from the rubies or to batter the prime minister's going to a foreign country will bring you doing good cheer i thought it was on the syrian tasteless and of course we can as the authority of the of the domestic governor who at this particular juncture should've been at least been allowed to present themselves as being the victors it was abundantly clear this was a british french victory and that's what the visit was designed to signify and what

does that mean now does that give them a responsibility they might not be able to meet i think it does i think the british and the french now have a very strong responsibility to make absolutely sure this does not fail that may well mean sending in troops when you invade a country you can't then say we've done our job we're going to go because people look to you to continue the revolution that you started or you. i just don't see how we can abandon the if if as is at least possible possibly improbable unlikely breaks out what about gadhafi david cameron since we washing his hands of that is she saying his fate is in the hands of the n t c is that shirking responsibility i'm assuming that british and french forces are now trying to find gadhafi inserting i mean i can't see the point of not finishing the job you know we claim just the assad regime no fly zone was a joke. i just it just seems to me that if you're going to attack a country in this way you must at least finish it and then you end the country and

the really difficult thing is to transfer power from yourself as the powerful authority to the local people and i think we're going to find it very difficult more sort of message does this send down there now kind of controlling this and it's going to need to learn you know what. well we the message it sends out is provided you make enough stink in a country then britain or france might come along and help the revolution that happened in kosovo off to bosnia it was abundantly clear what happened but a bunch of gangsters who were running kosovo effectively said you know we're being massacred by the which is certainly true come and save us we went and saved them and to create a new country we partitioned yugoslavia i mean the message is the west is effectively a mercenary army for any rebel group that cares to make enough of a stink about it and i just think that's dangerous to world peace how different is this really from iraq afghanistan and previous interventions i mean they say they've learned their lessons have well if they're the only lesson i draw from the

new this is don't do it they haven't learned that lesson the clearly going to start looking for another one i mean i imagine it's going to be some trouble in syria i don't know what they're going to do with i mean iran is if you do not invade iran and this you're out of your mind and it's a huge country iraq with a pretty big country and we found that very difficult afghanistan at least a small but we're getting a bloody nose that. i mean i guess the lesson of libya is it's a really small country might get away with it. applauding themselves this is the model of a successful intervention why is this not happening in syria and yemen and places i think the reason is that they thought it would be a good idea and it worked. it was easy to do you could run it from a few aircraft carriers and bases so it was a doable enterprise you could put in special forces quite easily got too many people they've seen. i just think it would be if it came along at the time i was

could realize why didn't do burma when the famine was on the very good example when you put it into the. total forces available it was in the to do it in a cage and. i mean i think these things are completely random now it's difficult to see how you orchestra. rate a foreign policy based upon these random interventions that's the nature of what is it to do with nato native north atlantic alliance against the russians it is i repeat it's like kind of a mercenary force roaming the world looking for things to do completely stuck in afghanistan he may yet get stuck in libya it can intervention work that the principle works if it works. it toppled saddam hussein. it punished the taliban it's topple gadhafi it works how should this is being handled how should libya i just a little listen we've left syria earlier we've got bahrain allied with let's let yemen or then why libya is not turning your back on oppressive regimes killing

civilians where are you were you to watch your back there in the first place and why i don't understand the argument with. turning our back on somalia. i mean are we turning our back on to be turn our back on the congress of the congo in somalia or far worse in libya no one's going screaming why aren't we talking congress and some other i'm afraid just because they're black. and i think you will see that in the very very racial caucus operation. for some reason we've got it in for music because we're going into the third one meeting grady. hospital for your question and. the mystery gives out to the world is that the west is highly biased it's late it is interested in oil it will help you if you if you look as if you're in with a chance you're going to if you're not. as of the rest of africa. what does this mean now for the arab spring does this intervention reinforce it or undermine it i

did it remains for a what is the arab spring i mean the arab spring was was was a number of rebellions most of which were suppressed. to now three of which you got away with it was from egypt your general spring. could well be that the president borrowing a better world from the top of the governments with him for free but. in the end ditto people i just don't know all i know is more modern responsibility there is no british empire anymore you know we are not charged by the electorate or by the world the girl around invading other people's countries we don't like their regimes it's just not our job simon jenkins thank you. very first verses of the bible that all human beings are created but sentimental

came in god's image and it doesn't say just jews or non jews. sixty to seventy percent of what i did as a combat soldier not to buy territories was to do with the turds doing what we call making our presence felt to go out should some bozo they hear a knock on some doors run to the other corner invade another house religion and nationalism not just judaism have been a part of the problem they've been part of what leads to. bloodshed if you want to bomb guys are and kill. a thousand four hundred people in a month and you want to expect that this will have no effect until a feat you have to be either extremely naive or extremely stupid we don't need to hear of your religious jew calling another joe and not the way they really didn't count. twenty years

ago in the largest country. to some degree to just. what had been chained. to teach began a journey. where did it take them. thousands

of greeks united angry protests after the government promises another round of austerity measures in a bid to avert a looming economic disaster it's going to the greek prime minister how talks with the german chancellor to restore confidence that athens is on the right track. nato peacekeepers in kosovo have injured seven serbs in clashes at the border area and that line says at least a rubber bullets but a local news agency has released pictures of x. rays sharing gunshot wounds. and the international community decision to build new settlements on occupied territory to put it in say the israeli moved rules out any chance of bilateral peace talks. this happy face and that means iran joins me now with the latest in sports there are also realized tonight in the champions league i guess good have used a little bit of luck yes this certainly could but despite so that the last of its

words it's end champions in serbia land the russians we still have plenty of opportunities in the remains are all of this group campaign this stick around i'll tell you more things. a little walk into the sport on our live from moscow with. a first the headlines. army. from two goals down but still loose for a five goal european cup earlier in moscow. inspiration from paralympians and ward ceremony has been held in the russian capital and others serious illnesses. the russians rugby team enjoy a day off from talking scrums and the world cup testing at an adventure park in new

zealand. one of the biggest nights of the russian football year has ended in disappointment for the home side. and their second champions league group match of the season it was lucile and. the visitors to after almost twenty three minutes but. first reducing the deficit on the stroke of half time through. before grabbing a deserved equaliser seventy seven minutes in. but it was ensor who would have the final say a. strike eleven minutes from earning the middle men their first win all the campaign. which enjoyed a contentious it was emotional and with it we stood. up to him a story much if. we can see it we. didn't have much time left but nevertheless when the to stage a big goalie. i know. there are strong in the correct there because at the

end of the match also. they drew the match. i spoke with my player science it because of food because until we have to suffer. the other matching group between the third your side trabzonspor war and live from france ended in a one one draw that's the group with four points answer milan followed with three are in third after two draw. last with just one point in the group a buyer munich are now two for two after their latest home win against manchester city but he claimed their first win in the campaign and set seconds of the german side last with an all goals. three three home draw against english giants majestie united moved the swiss team to the group c. with four points along with fico who want their first match against the remaining outfit also a little group d. match wraps up the tuesday action. in front of the twenty months before the

really good with three three and look at it in a positive way and i think it's a great result. of the draw as a coach it's a highlight for me to come here it's rare that i've been to a club like manchester united to work like this in real barcelona as a coach i'm very brand by my team's performance here supporters menu is. so welcome to european trip with them you know because we're going to the most parts of the game i thought. it was a fantastic game and agreeing to the game excitement. not as good as well so a group of the matches. that using action in the champions league where move up to second place after a home win against. real madrid have one hundred percent record so far in this tournament with the dutch side being their latest. michel platini has stated preparations at all four year olds in ukraine are moving along at

a satisfactory rate the president though pointed out the country which will co-host the football events with poland's still has work to. the preparations are going very well that i would say in the view of the roof isn't finished i was saying don't is there are some hotels which aren't finished and unhrc of the transport isn't finished these a small problems for their going is ation of the competition but today can say it was difficult at the start for ukraine and for three years ago things have gotten easier though. russia's a rhythmic gymnastics team have every reason to celebrate after clinching top spots of that's one see eleven world championships there are seven gold and six silver medals hailed as an event in moscow on tuesday the squad receiving their just reward from the sports minister to try to call following this monster i am. in particular drawing major blood is for her exploits the siberian they did what he

six out of a possible six goals in france that's what a one year old that quiet incredibly a seventeen world champion in the sports but with the big games fast approaching isn't about to take it easy. yes. my target is to get to london next year we have many more competition is ahead and only a few weeks before the olympics our coaches will see who is selected so what i have to do now is train hard and try to keep healthy. over it's a paralympic sport now where the third add. on national award ceremony took place in moscow on tuesday the event and they are the famous russian gymnast who was badly injured during competition in one thousand eighty one of the major awards going to force on paralympic champion a russian skier he take that people wasn't only paralympians shown at the ceremony maison look up to a these who's been suffering with

a muscle disorder since he was born showing that serious illness overcome the canadian showing off that he performed at that's once and once were lympics opening ceremony. i wasn't even. six years ago and i could only take three steps today taking one one steps. the rugby where a draw was witness for only the third ever time in the world cup history and choose a remarkably it was japan and canada who fought to a stalemate the same sides also drew at the two thousand and seven tournaments the game in mayfair played in perfect conditions and with the most positive of approaches canada eventually fighting back to deny japan only a second ever world cup when twenty three twenty three how it ended up after that

it's the ensure their qualification for the twenty fifteen games with victory over the united states has already also celyn with a shoot out. to meet arlene's in this year's quarterfinals following the bonus points but in the us and. and steyn at the world where russia's final match of the tournament takes place on saturday against australia the players using that to fit in and adrenaline. and our correspondent richard one portly one along and was let's say a reluctant participant as well. it's been a tough debut world cup for the russians but they were fun to give him a chance to lead. a lucrative venture pocket route to ruin. jumping off a forty forty meter powerful one will be everyone's idea of fun but it certainly was for denise implicated. the twenty year old completed one lifelong ambition

recently by scoring a trial in his world cup debut album old. scary first punch um. however we know it wasn't the only one want to get a piece of the action is followed by a team if he is keen to free himself all from among guiltily highlights. i'm a northampton saints player said it was a fantastic frill. bustling of i've dreamt of this there's a while before and this is a dream come true hopefully i'll have a nice strength to go to the bungee jump as. the players will like kids in a candy store trying to royds time to time my time. even bows some of russia's challenges seem more interested in getting better acquainted with the local animal population. england recently got run be criticised for doing similar had been trying to tease the russian coach can see jones couldn't

have been more different in his approach saying it was a wonderful distraction from the play is a plus it's important you know we've worked hard for the last. hundred twenty days and they need to refresh recharge now. she's lot of technical things we can work on the thing is going to. make us part of the reforms constrain years everybody refresh mentally physically and you know the mental thing mental rest and change from coaching is and getting coached and training every day is important of course discipline times to break to the russian players to make great use of their free time while many of whom productivity's like this for the first time in their lives but there was no label nazis correspondent was going to get away scot free. or. bright or very merry not. so i am forty meters on their.

own say. i managed to live to tell the tale just a buyouts. if i didn't prove to be in the money fine for seeking experience but the. russian favorite is i'm going to decide to give it a try as well. so i was going to go. with my move to nelson on wednesday ahead of their final world cup game i'm told to finish on saturday fable so we have some fun testing memories. i'm jealous i'll be back with more in a couple of hours meanwhile our use of channel at r.t.s. for news is available to us and it's thanks for watching.

and discover it. communicate with the wild. test yourself and become free. to. see what nature can give you.

causes of greeks united angry protests out of the government are part of another round of austerity measures in attempts to avert looming economic disaster. border disorder nato forces in kosovo clash with signs as a local news agency reports live rounds have been fired. on the international community islam's a zero decision to build new settlements on occupied territory which the palestinians say was ousted by the peace talks called for add big. business to the reform of russia's banking sector to make it more transparent maybe it's related to the sacking of finance minister couldn't what the analysts think about it find out in our business bulletin twenty minutes. and a very warm welcome.