the libya conflict r.t. spoke with a prominent british journalist what he thinks of his nation's role in the intervention and simon jenkins coming up in today's interview. i'm joined by simon jenkins author and journalist who now writes for the guardian newspaper some like to speak to r.t. now you've written extensively criticizing the way the intervention in libya has been handled what was wrong with it was it wrong to begin with or do you view of course during the process yes anything wrong with the way it was handled i just didn't you should have taken place in the first place. i do not believe that sovereign states have a legal right or an obligation or a duty to interfere in other sovereign states is written into the united nations charter this is not a country to threaten britain didn't threaten any of its neighbors and invaded in the neighbor it was going about its own business which is not a revolution it was. said you think the original justification preventing

a massacre in benghazi was that not entirely true that i'm sure lost of things would random bengazi nasty things happen all over the world. the excuse that there might have been something nasty about to happen the justification for invading to be invading a country and bombing its capital is i find quite extraordinary it's an it's a noble concept of clearly there were other interests in play in libya there were the oil and people close to the mediterranean they were lighter skinned people i mean all the kind of things you can't live by british foreign policy. there was no justification for it except the theory that there would have been a massacre had we not go made in benghazi those all teary motives things like leaks to oil contracts and now being fought over there are more important then than say preventing loss of human life well i mean if we if we're going to go in wherever there's a possible loss of human life we're going to go invading countries all over the world all the time i'm assuming more than assuming i think i know there are mixed

motives in always interventions we tend to intervene in countries where we think we might win you know moral attitude we tend to really be interesting cunt. there's where we have some interest in the state or will we tend to intervene where we think i think there's almost quick glory to be hired was a case of iraq and clearly was the case here there are always mixed motives but i think we always need to examine almost as an office of the simple question are we going to do good rather than harm in this case it seems we've done good but that was by no means guaranteed the fact of the matter was it was not our country jake is going to plan in this clean they thought they were going to get quick laurie did last a bit longer than they thought but some of the yes well i mean they came close to panicking i mean they thought bombers could do the trick bombs can never do the trick they said they would do the trick in baghdad they didn't they said do the trick and belgrade they didn't bomb was never do the trick after a few months of it clearly not working they decided to put in gret what is

effectively ground troops and special forces went away over the place they did what i think probably they should on the very beginning which say that we want this one over quickly it will be over quickly if we go in with ground troops as was the case in kosovo and eventually after six months they did indeed when there's no good pretending this was done by the libyans it was done by western forces britain's role in this as you just mentioned they had special forces on the ground but we haven't know the full extent of that because it wasn't even legitimate in the first place was it well i mean we wrote the un resolution is concerned i mean we this is entirely are doing and we we decided to do it then we found reasons for doing that we decided that we're going to be in that room by golly we decided we need a u.n. resolution written a certain way we claim to be going in to protect civilians will be under the bombing. i mean all the things that we've done we've done with the intention of justifying a pretty stringent within the law of libya. i'm assuming that we'll know much more

over time because all the special forces will start writing their memoirs as they always do the mission creep was seeing here was it planted you think or is it just an inevitable unavoidable consequence of. intervention i think is a very difficult question mission creep. invariably when it happens in the great cases it was in belgium bowles now people say at the beginning we we won't let this happen we are only going into a humanitarian relief would have been might be in this case we were only going in to save the citizens of bengal and from what we can from circa that would be a pretty unpleasant things a person. but at the back of everyone's mark and why the army so reluctant. is the knowledge that mission creep always happens you cannot control the situation on the ground who just. you've got to be prepared for the worst because the worst is what usually happens now in this case it was looking a real mess and all the very end the very end you got special forces surrounding tripoli they didn't just get lucky even though they used may fourth of using

helicopters they were using british weapons to bash through walls and everything in the end we did what we probably should go to the beginning which would make sure we would not going to lose when david cameron and nicolas sarkozy visited tripoli recently they were given a hero's welcome people cheering chanting then names wanted to shake their hands saying it was all good for them was it something they wanted and expected i think just totally ill judged i mean it was clearly a triumph. very soon go from the boot when the enemy's to the heart. you can't pretend it wasn't from footballs from for the rubys or to batter the prime minister is going to a foreign country we're going to do in good cheer i thought it was unnecessary and tasteless and of course we can as the authority of the of the domestic governor who at this particular juncture should've and at least been allowed to present themselves as being the victors it is abundantly clear this was a british french victory and that's what the visit was designed to signify and what

does that mean now does that give them a responsibility they might not be able to meet i think it does i think the british and the french now have a very strong responsibility to make absolutely sure this does. not faile that may well mean sending in troops when you invade a country you can't then say we've done our job we're going to go because people look to you to continue the revolution that you started or you aided i just don't see how we can abandon the if if as is at least possible possibly improbable unlikely breaks out or about gadhafi david cameron since we washed his hands of that is she saying his fate is in the hands of the n t c is that shirking responsibility i'm assuming that british and french forces are now trying to find gadhafi inserting i mean i can't see the point of not finishing the job you know we claim just two subs and no fly zone was a joke. i just it just seems to me that if you're going to attack a country in this way you must at least finish it and then you end the country and

the really difficult thing is to transfer power from yourself as the powerful authority to the local people and i think we're going to find that very difficult more sort of message does this send down then our kind of controlling this and it's going to need to lineal way. well we the message it sends out is provided you make enough stink in a country then britain or france might come along and help the revolution that happened in kosovo off to bosnia it was abundantly clear what happened but a bunch of gangsters who were running kosovo effectively said you know we're being massacred by this which is certainly true come and save us we went and saved them and to create a new country we partitioned yugoslavia i mean the message is the west is effectively a mercenary army for any rebel group that cares to make enough of a stink about it and i just think that's dangerous to world peace how different is this really from iraq afghanistan and previous interventions i mean they say they've learned their lessons have think well they're the only lesson i draw from

a new this is don't do it they haven't learned that lesson the they're clearly going to start looking for another one i mean i imagine it's going to be some trouble in syria i don't know what they're going to do with them in iran as you do not invade iran and this radical mind and it's a huge country iraq with a pretty big country and we found that very difficult afghanistan at least a small but we're getting a bloody nose that. i mean i guess the lesson of libya is it's a really small country might get away with it nato are applauding themselves this is the model of a successful intervention why is this not happening in syria and yemen and places i think the reason is that they thought it would be a good idea and it worked. it was easy to do you could run it from aircraft carriers and bases measuring so it was a doable but integrals you could put in special forces quite easy got to meet people they'd sing. i just think it would be if it came along at the time i was

couldn't rise whether to do burma when the famine was on the very good example where you could have the. total forces available in there to do it in a cave. i mean i think these things are completely random now it's difficult to see how you orchestra. great a foreign policy based upon these random interventions as the nature of what is it to do with nato native north atlantic alliance against the russians it is i repeat it's like kind of a mercenary force roaming the world looking for things to do completely stuck in afghanistan it may yet get stuck in libya it can intervention work that the principle of it works if it works. it toppled saddam hussein. it punished the taliban it's topple gadhafi it works how should this it being handled how should live. i just a little listen we've left syria earlier with bahrain allied with let's let yemen or then why libya is not turning your back on oppressive regimes killing civilians

where are you were you to watch your back there in the first place and why i don't understand the argument that. we turning our back on somalia. i mean are we turning our back on to be turn our back on congress or the congo in somalia for with libya no one's going screaming why don't we attacking congress and somalia i'm afraid just because they're black. and i think you will see that in the very much needed very racial caucus operation for some reason we've got it in for music because we're going into the third one meeting grady. hospital for the girl in question and . the mystery gives out to the world is that when the west is highly biased it's ladies interested in oil it will help you if you if you look as if you're in with a chance you're going to if you're not and as for the rest of africa. what does this mean now for the arab spring does this intervention reinforce it or undermine

it i did it remains for are we what is the arab spring i mean the arab spring was was was a number of rebellions most of which were suppressed. too now three of which you got away with it was to your general spring. could well be that the for the borrowing the better off from the top of the governments before for. the one thing to topple i just don't know all i know is more modern responsibility there is no british empire anymore you know we are not charged by the electorate or by the world the girl around invading other people's countries we don't like their regimes it's just not our job simon jenkins thank you. very first verses of the bible is that all human beings are created but sentimental

came in god's image and it doesn't say just jews or non jews. sixty to seventy percent of what i did as a combat soldier in the occupied territories was to do with deterrents doing what we call making our presence felt to go out should some so they hear a knock on some doors run to the other corner invade another. religion and nationalism not to students whom have been a part of the problem they've been part of what leads to. bloodshed if you want to bomb gaza and kill. a thousand four hundred people in a month and you want to expect that this will have no effect until the feet you have to be either extremely naive or extremely stupid you don't even need to hear a religious jew calling another joe and not not the way they really did it not.

wealthy british style seinfeld's. markets fine scandal find out what's really happening to the global economy for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines to name two kinds of reports on r t. twenty years ago in the largest country. to some degree to. what had been trying. to teach began a journey. where did it take. these

are greeks united in angry protest after the government passes another round of austerity measures in a bid to import the looming economic disaster this after the greek prime minister holds talks with the german chancellor in an attempt to restore confidence that this is on the right track. nato peacekeepers in kosovo had injured seven serbs in clashes at the border area the alliance says he used rubber bullets a local news agency has released pictures of the x. rays showing a gunshot. the international community slams israel's decision to build new settlements in occupied territory palestinians say the israeli move rules out any chance of bilateral peace talks. for months up next with the sports news so europe's top club football event continues wednesday what do you think is the russian team's chances for tonight well i can say that the two russian seems currently in action and in the champions league are impressing however the fans are hoping it could all change tonight when is indeed st petersburg host the europa

league winners force all all that coming up in the second. well welcome to the sport on artsy coming to you live from the russian capital with me on calls for the first headlines. army men disarm says. two goals down but still loose after a five goal european cup thriller in moscow. inspiration from paralympians and annual awards ceremony has been held in the russian capital on the ring athletes and others trying to overcome serious illnesses. down time as a rugby team enjoy a day off from talking scrums and tactics at the world cup testing their mettle as an adventure for the musical and. one of the biggest nights of the russian football

year has ended in disappointment for the home side says moscow going. on in their second champions league group match of the season it was lucio and john paul who had the visitors after only twenty three minutes but says god didn't lie down first reducing the deficit on the stroke of half time through go if before grabbing a deserved equaliser seven seven minutes from back are lucky but it was ensor who would have the final say. eleven minutes from earning the melanne men their first win of the campaign. which. it was emotional and with it we stood low if you reduce or we didn't do we made so much effort to come back from studios down we conceded it we could go and didn't have much time left but nevertheless we managed to stage another storm with a big goal. i know there are strong in the correct there because at the end of the match hold so little they drove the match. i spoke to my player side

he said because of food because until the end we have to suffer. the other match in group b. between the turkish side. france and the you know. the group with four points although with three third first two draws and says skara last with just one point. in group a buyer in munich are now. their latest home win against manchester city while they claim their first win in the campaign and six seconds of the german side last with . goals. three three home draw against english giants manchester united moved the swiss teams of the group c. with four points along with. their first match against the remaining outfits also the. two for my month before i'm really glad with three three and look at it in a positive way i think it's a great result we deserved it and earned the draw as

a coach it's a highlight for me to come here it's rare that i've been to clubs like manchester united or the likes israel or barcelona as a coach i'm very impressed by my team's performance here i suppose many ways it's. so welcome to european triple for them you know because he was going away. for most parts of the game i thought. it was a fantastic game and agreeing to the game excitement. group d. matches so wrapped up that she is they actually in the champions league where they all move up to second place after a home win against zagreb and real madrid have a one hundred percent record so far in this argument with the dutch side i.x. being their latest victims. now the second game week of the champions league group stages continues with teams from groups through to h. kicking off on wednesday evening in europe russian champions as it needs are hosting europa league winter sports all in the days early it's i now despite

missing if you keep players including the former board's old captain bruno all those who suspended for this match luciano split his men are feeling confident after a successful recent domestic run that propelled them to the top of the russian premier league it means is it needs a loss to minerals from cyprus in their opening game seems like a distant memory now however another defeat would seriously damage the same petersburg side chances progressing to the next stage. aside from the great achievements portals made in his history but you produced a lot of very strong players look full football and quite a lot of strong managers to and it says a lot about the strength of the club that is well organized and has great traditions the portuguese side subgroup g. at the moment and will be hoping to extend their lead with another win statistics show that russia is a happy hunting ground for porto as the club's four previous trips to the country all ended in triumph however none of those winds were against is in need who are

known for their strong home record. so the new. schools need is one of the strongest teams in europe it's enough to see that through the al the shoe used to play now it's the no please there everyone knows danny who plays no national team alexandre cocksure call for is a well known fluent and luciano spy late is a manager who is well known in europe and around the world. always the paralympic news now where the third annual national awards ceremony took place in moscow on tuesday the event named after the famous russian gymnast who was badly injured during a competition in one thousand eighty now one of the major awards going to force i'm carol lin be champion a russian skier edict that evolved although it wasn't only parent against the showing of the ceremony amazing look up the two l.a. who's been suffering with a muscle disorder since she was born showing that serious illness can be overcome with canadian showing off the same sense that you performed at this once it's in

windsor paralympics opening ceremony. eight years ago i wasn't able to do this. six years ago and i could only take three steps today and taking one more instance . to rugby where a draw was a witness for only the third ever time in the world cup history remarkably it was japan and canada who fought a stalemate the same sides also drew at the two thousand and seven servants the game and maybe are played perfect conditions and with the most positive all approaches can as a venture to fight and back to deny japan only a second ever world cup twenty three twenty three how it ended up after that's it's only ensure their qualification for the twenty two games with a victory over the united states also still in with the shouts of mead's arlen's in

this year's quarterfinals following the bonus point when nelson. sent of the world cup where russia's final match of the tournament takes place on saturday against australia the players using that sound scientific in an adrenaline tax aster noon in. our correspondent richard vaughan portly once a long and was let's say a reluctant participants as well. it's been a tough debut world cup of the russians but they were finally given a chance to let their hair down a little adventure park in route to ruin. jumping off a forty three metre platform might not be everyone's idea of fun but it certainly was for denise implicated. the twenty year old completed one lifelong ambition recently by scoring a try on his world cup debut. native also on the so-called thirty first bungee jump

however when it wasn't the only one wanted to get a piece of the action is followed by a team if he clearly is keen to prove himself all from among globally highlights. on the north hampton st clair said it was a fantastic frail. bustling i've dreamt of this there's a while before and this is a dream come true hopefully i'll have a nice strength to go to the bungee jump. the play is when my kids in a candy store and we're trying to royds time off to time up the time. even though some of russia's challenges seem more interested in getting better acquainted with the local animal population. england recently got round to criticize for doing similar to tease of the russian coach kingsley jones couldn't have been more different in his approach saying it was a wonderful distraction for the players plus it is supporting you know we've worked

hard for the last. hundred twenty days and they need to refresh recharge now. she's lot of technical things we can work on but think it's going to. make us part of the force constrain years everybody fresh mentally physically and you know the mental thing mental rest and change from coaching is and getting coaching training every day is important of course discipline testing break from the russian players to make great use of their free time while many of whom productivity's like this for the first time in their lives but there was no way that our team's correspondent was going to get away scot free. all. right we're very married now. so when i am forty metres out there. well say. i managed to live to tell the tale just to

buyouts. the but didn't prove to be the end of my new found freedom seeking experience. the russian favorite it's all good this ought to give it a try as well on a. russian of a seven company so it's got to go. russia will move to nelson on wednesday ahead of their final world cup game i'm told and finished for them on saturday they will certainly have some fantastic memories. runs remember a great entrée roots or a newsreader. if you'd like to comment on richard's experience in new zealand go to our youtube channel at r.t. sport news but i'll be back in a couple of hours thanks for watching. the issues that so much of a lot of people at the hearing of all the signals were telling to western liberal

interventionism is it ever justified for such military interventions within the confines of international law is there a case where. we'll. bring you the latest in science and technology from around the world. we've got the future covered.

leeches and discoveries. communicate with the want to. test yourself and become free. see what nature can give you.

thousands of greeks unite in angry protest after the government passes another round of austerity measures in an attempt to import blooming konami disaster. order disorder nato forces in kosovo clash with sort of those a local news agency reports live for hours have been fired. international community slams israel's decision to build new settlements on occupied territory that the palestinians say rules out the bilateral peace talks called for at the u.n. . and in business the russian market struggled to maintain strong gains they enjoyed at the start of the week but both the artists in my eyes it started the day it's like the lower we'll look at the figures in opposites program.