go needs to moscow and beijing bruce corporation as china becomes the first country i do agree to visit after stating run for the presidency next year. up next here and also why do you show it which host talks with a legendary photographer joseph good elka who witnessed and documented the bloodshed during the a prank spring uprising in one nine hundred sixty eight. hello again and welcome to spotlight the interview shouty i'll bring on today my guest on the show is. more than four decades ago in czechoslovakia the so-called prague spring. it was a period of political liberalization which ended up with nassif invasion of the

warsaw pact armies into the country besides being important in history the prague spring was also a breakthrough for one of the most renowned photographer the twentieth century. goodell photographed the invasion and the resistance and today he's here to share his experience. as a student who is considered one of the most influential photographers of modern times started his career by turning his lands on the gypsies in slovakia and romania and later focused on landscape photography but he's best known work is on the song that invasion of czechoslovakia nine hundred sixty eight it was published in the british army times magazine under the pen name peepee make good old days alex regular popular and award winning photographer. how was the codell kind of welcome to the show good my very much should be with. that's out for now so just is going to buy there's

a tell all the time in france they say. in english so you can call whatever. it's very hard for me being a russian to talk to the czech national about the events of nine hundred sixty eight even after all these years well what about you are you alright with the russian. after forty years of you know it's very hard for me to. in fact. before going to moscow it's not my first time was going. before going to moscow but they have been here for eight years so before going to moscow i was the thing which i was most afraid not to get emotional. because still. it is very close to my heart. because because the first sure of the fish the word was that this invasion in prague in czechoslovakia was over but by the socialist

countries by the countries of the of the warsaw pact but actually it was led by the soviet army and most of the soldiers were russians of course he was followed there isn't i would like you to excuse me because in the past of time we were saying russians russian so i would like to apologize to all the viewers if i say russian of what they really mean soviet union soldiers who were though it was a different country and yours was a different country and now it was a different country well as a matter of fact today well the face of europe has changed and there is no more socialist countries on the face of you could we say that actually your country czechoslovakia was and your people were the first to spark this change to start the process is a true. i can't talk about that you know i was never interested in the politics. and i was living in czechoslovakia and it was similar

in their show. before sixty eight nothing was possible and suddenly in sixty eight everything's that will be possible i mean even even people who are not interesting politics certainly involve so i can talk about this is what was really happening it doesn't interest me much but there were so happy to bring happen because suddenly i could say what they wanted to say it was the perestroika in russia years later thirty years later with garbage yes i can tell you. i in one thousand eight hundred nine i couldn't go back to czechoslovakia but i was innovative to come to russia to photograph but history. so every day when i was in front the law. of a single people are saying i was walking around moscow quite

a few being arrested because i photographed something what they didn't supposed to photograph but exactly i would say it was probably something similar so so you did find things things in common even even being just a photographer. well actually more than forty years ago russian tanks and tanks of other socialist countries rolled into czechoslovakia to put an end to the country's liberal reforms this is what. the media has to say about. spring nineteen sixty eight was exceptional in the history of what was known as czechoslovakia the country was dominated by this period of liberalization was taking place the checks on the slovaks were anticipated and mild a more democratic version of the soviet regime the reformist alexander do puke i just come to power huge the communist party's grip on the country granting citizens

agree to freedom of expression the reforms however were not received well by this. of it you know and a series of negotiations followed but the you were ceasars leader their new direction if i wasn't satisfied with the results eventually on the twenty first of all list troops from five warsaw pact countries and to have a care soviet tanks were deployed in the streets of the capital prague during the uprising seventy two czech and slovak civilians were killed later on a group of moscow citizens held a protest on red square against the invasion demonstrators were arrested then lead upon ish to the soviet invasion put an end to this short period of liberalization in czechoslovakia which had to wait a further twenty years to be read of this sort of intrusion. you graduated from university back in one thousand nine hundred sixty one and you got

a diploma of an engineer yes the same year when you graduated you you actually organized your first exhibit of your photographic works does it mean that then when you were a young graduate you already wanted to be a professional photographer or it was never like a hobby i still don't consider myself to be a professional killer for. this you know i think i'm a much of a but you make money. yes i'm a living from the front of you know that that makes you professional. i think it depends on how you look at it ok so let's say i live from the photography but i still consider myself i have the same life like all these children i'm going. for so so would you consider yourself making money by photography but but still i can still see an amateur like truthful agatha christie's poor role miss marple

they weren't professional detectives they were amateurs. you know what in fact what they wanted to say that. none of us engine in a study or an engineering i started to make for us. to make for two thousand because something was interesting and it developed great love to the photography which is luckily enough lastings there today so that's what i wanted to say that in fact i am still the same man who started photography fifty years ago listen he you were and they're mature for governor for ok in the sixty's and when when these reforms when this paris troika in czechoslovakia started what were you interested in photographing these events you said you were not political i was not i was not. really interested in the politics of course but i can tell you hold it happens i

know a photograph as a photographer before any news and i never photographed any newspaper. i never photo you have any story but it happened something that one day i came back from a woman in every photo you have gypsy and next night my girlfriend called me and they said russians are here. she called me three times because i thought i didn't believe like old she was drunk that was at four o'clock in the morning you know and finally when she said open the window and listen i opened the window i could hear the plane flying very i don't know five minutes so i realized something was happening. any hesitation these are thinking about politic result think i just pick my camera pick my films and i get on the streets.

and i started to photograph. and i thought that it was important. because i was czech it was my country. and it concerned me directly. and suddenly because what was happening you know there were photographs everywhere there were so many things happening it was so is it before. you turn around and picture was there i have two pictures i'm not sure if these pictures are here there's one picture of the known picture of each of the men against the tank opening and the second picture which is very good picture two young men it is the flame which is but every thirty seconds that one. after one after second. so it was incredible and i think you know for me for me the biggest the most interesting thing is that i was not the man who fought to get out of the news

but suddenly this what i did become classic example of the reporter or it is considered. one of the a lot of people with cameras on the streets. there are not to many people is the commerce there. and of course the russian soldiers they have the order to prevent they quickly towns. destroyed or come at us or take some of our survey and the shooter after the fight over they probably didn't shoot him but if you're here shooting behind you don't bother much beach anywhere anyway so there are but. you know i think. my picture might be better than the some other ones and definitely more complete and by that different that the pictures of all these professional photographers all came there you know. i think big because i was

it was my problem it was my country and i had to add to it so as a photographer. spotlight will be back shortly after the break so stay with us we're going to. make. sure is that so much as i can recall an example of you calling what you wish a major political tipping point for woodstock without music irrespective of the occupy wall street demonstrations continue to. feel.

the urge. to. six. weeks. however again and welcome to spotlight i am al green of and here in the studio with me today i have photographer just so i could. just have you said that your

pictures the pictures that you took during the progs printing in the back nine hundred sixty eight probably were better than pictures taken by professionals from from the agencies with a lot of people the courage to get into czechoslovakia for a from a professional agency yes but they probably they didn't have it like like me because i was the first on the spot. and in first the first day it was the most interesting you know i had a certain pictures in fact my pictures i remember being published in. book and magazine as a real russian soldiers look on what was going on in the streets because i was standing just next to the soldiers was it he said that the russian soldiers even could shoot in the direction of people taking pictures so it could have been very

dangerous was it would. lessen. people being killed but i know that the russian soldiers they. you know they could of course when when your tank is burning and you are there is the gun you can start to short it is clear and there were dissipation and there were not children shooting but of course people are shot you you are talking about about burning soviet tanks well does that mean that the resistance against invasion world was very strong and i mean the czechs and slovaks were very serious about fighting back. you know. they didn't have a chance that there they understood that they didn't have any chance of course yes you know i can talk to you on the about but out. there really i wouldn't get out and after of course the product is not. is not my skull and i can call tell you and

my pictures are showing i published this book in eleven countries and my book. is published also in the russian and it show what was happening in the center of the broken seven days. how did you manage to smuggle your pictures abroad because after going after the invasion the regime was were was a very strict soviet regime no war period troika no war liberals so so it probably was hard for you to to to to get your pictures i look at. you know. all these events in sixty eight. where there was really like it. that i wake up early there was the first. of all these pictures that. nobody faked my films but i really i didn't did this picture is that it was the aim

to publish and. i developed my films only one month or two months later and then i started to make those and the little prince i was showing them my friends and i left some of them is my friend then came czechoslovakia came somebody one curator of the photography from washington smithsonian institute. and he saw them. he asked if he can take six with them so my friend called me as to give it to him the big day. and then he was front of it who in that time was president of the long for target of. and he saw these pictures he was very interested then in these beaches so he sent a message to. ask if the photographer has more of these pictures and if i would be willing to send then i got i said no no i don't. want to have them

i don't want to take that risk so len finally they convinced me that magnum is the it was from my you know. agency sirus organisation. which you know that i don't need to be afraid so that somebody else came for some different is an illusion i don't know exactly i think he was the doctor of all medical con congress he took and i got this old smuggling anyway yeah but what was the reaction in prague your reaction of friends when your photographs your pictures started to be published all around the world to all all the world publications know in a trout but i know what he saw that really you know he's not know about it now in fact the only thing whole you. and and all my pictures never use it to us free of voice of america somebody here the news i'm learning was checked for. received the call to nail and dig up our prize for his picture. and

by chance therefore first anniversary in august. i was in this group my theatre group which i photographed they play many chuckles and they came to play call and. what happened one sunday i get to aunt and everybody are still looking in the magazine so i look to the magazine was full of my photograph. but of course i couldn't tell them they were my photo so so so so so all the time when your pictures were published to anonymous check for doug and only not only all of time. i my pictures of not publish was on mine for sixteen years mainly for the reason that i still have got family in czechoslovakia and of course they could have problems with when you decided to immigrate to to leave chicks like you wasn't for political reasons or did you get

a good job offer for money. i didn't know anything about my example that i knew that they they got their negatives so there's not not a ton of michael it was not for political reasons the put it the main reason or us and probably you can understand it because you are younger than me but i was afraid . i was afraid they're going to land who is this proud of her who would take all these pictures from praxis. and even a new i went to jail really and as that is good to jail but the people voted. for much simpler things. and the charge would have been smuggling pictures yes i think's no no you go for drug of no a charge would be. saying something bad about going country

yes well in fact very happy that for sixteen years i didn't say in the speech or by my name and the arguments that had become i became known by some different sort of each of which are mainly gypsy pictures and not by these pictures was that a difficult decision for you and was a difficult actually to get out from czechoslovakia so it was a very difficult but the difference what you said how did you manage what you said the regime didn't change as quickly as they wanted you know one day a russian came and but all these people in the ministry. in the gypsy group which you needed to get their recommendation they stay there. so the story is a little longer but maybe we don't have a time to tell it. but you left your family back in ships like each other for the

first couple of years later they joined us no no no. my thought my my parents died and i was not able to see to them. no when you come to prague these days do you see it from a different angle of what i mean the city the people the country i after after so many years you spent abroad you know. exile it gives you. exile is. can be bad for some people i have written the book which is called exile us which is not about people who are in the exam but people it'll outside of the society. and just of militia. who is the nobel prize writer polish. exile to a he said exile and kill but if doesn't kill you make you stronger

and exile gives you one possibility to start your life from the scratch you live in the moscow you come every day here they know who you are influence you can change from one day to whether they're you suddenly you are you get in and nobody knows anything you have your house burned on i have to start your life you ask about the proud going the route the others are the present which gives you it gives you possibility if you are lucky enough i was lucky enough that after twenty years could go back that you get back. and you are able to look on everything what you knew different and different mine and i get too proud every day i took three four five

streets alone i walk alone and i was looking for the first on the contrary reach a new perfect. do you know the home in front. of a home an apartment in prague no i have two apartments when the one in the old factory in the. we have still have study only in their garden and then. i can say that i love writing plays both are beautiful and very different and displace that i look on this beautiful church. very different so i can't tell you i have these two places but if i come there if i open the doors in the uk i think it's fantastic but if a leaf i'm not sorry to leave it on but had it anyway when you come you know it's

a visitor you coming home when you come to prague is a true yes i would go to q. what is the home. for me a whole nother. wherever you lay your hat i am thank you thank you very much for being with us and i hope muska will be your home for the next couple of days later mike thanks just a reminder that my guest today was yes codell cafu photographed the soviet invasion into checked my back to get back to nine hundred sixty eight and that's it for now from all of us here if you want to add your sales squad my route some of them aren't you i mean two of you next time just drop me a line of al going up at party t.v. darts are you let's keep the spotlight interactive me back with more truth or comment on it was going on in and outside pressure until then stay on our team and take thank you thank you very much for it to.

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