welcome back this is all from moscow and here's a recap of the main stories we're covering for you today the death of libya's ousted leader of colonel gadhafi has been that cheered both by libyan said it was for leaders the questions are being asked about his execution at the hands of a man who was the broadcasting of nuisance images of his body. grease enters a new age it was sturdy after lawmakers approved more taxes and constant stave off the debt measures were greeted by violent clashes between protesters and riot police. and the nato peacekeepers in the outer warns ethnic serbs to remove their bare he is from a disputed border ignore that possible on thursday while this is the attempts to dismantle the roadblocks locals clash repeat for forces that used tear gas and pepper spray to disperse the crowds. of acts on r t cross-talk looks at whether the

activists of occupy movements have the potential to change politics to stay with us for the. live. live. live. live. live you can. start. listening to the slim hello and welcome to cross talk to people about with roughly fifteen hundred occupy protests occurring in eighty two countries worldwide this is a global protest movement was staying power there can be no doubt there is intense dissatisfaction with the political and economic status quo but the question remains can all of this be translated into something meaningful. lives can.

still live. to cross-talk the ongoing global protests i'm joined by rachel martin in paris she's an international political and communications strategist and journalist in philadelphia we go to dave lindorff he is an in war winning investigative reporter and author of the blog this can't be happening and in sacramento we cross the joseph palermo he is an associate professor at california state university sacramento all right folks this is cross talk that means you can jump in anytime you want to be very much encouraged but first marcia this global movement seems to have some traction and church does it all started as a mishmash collection of interest groups highlighting inequality and the influence of big business over national decision making today the occupy wall street movement has morphed into something far far bigger and far beyond the u.s. like the public you know all american people on the bus and other parts of the world are higher. payout tremendously big. crisis of capitalism they keep

driving the movement worldwide is a sense that free market capitalism has shortcomings and that it is ordinary people who suffer the most from. across the developed world they're in debt they're losing their jobs and they're finding their governments an able to allay their grievances at the same time the income gap has continued to widen and the bank bailouts from two thousand and eight have made the public liable for debts of the mega wealthy and as such the current global protest movement is demanding a new set of solutions to today seemingly insolvable day when we want to be part of the global movement not of the youth movement not the revolution a little piece. of complete generation. left in consciousness many in the developing countries have joined the occupy wall street protest against global financial institutions and transnational corporations and hope to trigger examination and restructuring of political and economic policies and who knows with the g twenty meeting coming up maybe

a look at finally beginning to see some results a little maybe we will rachel find where you first in paris and just looking at with his report there we had some young people saying they didn't want to be put with a button hole that any kind of movement youth movement that movement they don't want to be that i described but in looking at all these movements around the world is it fair to say or is an exaggeration to say it is an anti-capitalist movement. no i think there's two points that have to be me here the first is i think it's important not to fall into the cognitive trap of assuming that whatever type of protest movement we see in whatever country we happen to be in is exactly the type of protest and the reasons for the protests that we're seeing in other countries in other words a civil rights movement in america in the sixty's is not exactly the same actually not not anything like. a protest movement in cairo that we saw during the arab spring and likewise that movement is nothing like the occupy wall street protests

say secondly i think it's important to note that wall street has nothing to do with capitalism and that's i think the fault often of hollywood in the way that capitalism is portrayed as being equivalent to wall street but the reality is that wall street is if anything state socialism and and corporate welfare these are not calculus principles i think it's important to go back and define capitalism and what it is capitalism is free market limited government wall street represents neither of those two things they've taken bailouts and government has its fingerprints all over wall street so it's not republicans it's not conservatives in the in the free market limited government sense that run wall street these are these are our corporate welfare recipients plain and simple it has more to do with socialism with anything than capitalism capitalism hasn't failed and i think capitalism is in fact the solution and i can explain that that's a whole other maybe

a little bit later dave if i can go to you i mean i've always found that the term occupy wall street to be quite interesting is actually quite agree with a lot with what rachel i just wanted to occupy congress want to occupy parliament because it's these people that are in the pockets of bankers in the corporate world why don't we just get rid of these people ok if there's such a genuine groundswell for change that's how it can happen. i would have to take issue with what rachel said ok this first of all. there hasn't been free market capitalism in the united states for as long back if you want to look in the industrial era i mean the same argument that he's making about the banks being socialist because they have so much government involvement in their business activities could have been said about the railroads back in the nineteenth century they only got what they got because the government involvement in land grants and in financing everything else so really american capitalism has been

a process of using corporations using governments to basically socialize their their. investment and also their losses so. what's different here that's happening that i find as someone who has been a journalist back to nine hundred seventy two and was involved in the antiwar movements dating back in one thousand nine hundred six point given my age away. this is really different because any united states we don't really talk about normally about words like capitalism and words like revolution. and why this is now even making it into mainstream media we're talking about capitalism we're talking about whether capitalism works that's new and and the other thing is that. this movement is not part of some old left you know it's not. breakaway the communist sects and tried skeet sects and the kinds of

groups that actually spearheaded the antiwar movement in the early days it's a grassroots movement of young people who are actually questioning the foundation principles of economics and political system in the united states that's really new and they're doing it without you know being led by the nose by the. areas. special interest party groups that are trying to push their own it well it hasn't been doing it it hasn't happened yet anyway the assembly meetings it hasn't happened yet and i got a job i mean this is start i had i had this started out. on wall street with one occupation it's grown like wildfire all over the country and there are all these different demands developing but we're hearing words like us empire we're here we're seeing connections between us militarism and the inability to fund public sector jobs all of these demands are coalescing and it's very early

in this movement remember it's only been a what about a month ok i mean we just heard i did i think are you going to just a first of all going to rachel that i mean we just heard you know we've been focusing a lot on young people there's a lot of middle class people middle aged people involved in this is well it's because of the financial crisis and i'd like to point out to you during most recessions income inequality narrows during this great reception recession great contraction we've seen inequality actually grow not something new for a recession at least since the second world war yeah well i'm reporting from a city that's the tenth most underwater as far as everybody's mortgages in this town in the whole nation and that's part of it's really with the did was i agree with the sentiments that have been spoken and the movement itself i find it interesting we don't have to reinvent the wheel and a lot of the labels about capitalism anti-capitalism i mean my my students all the

young people you know the soviet union fell around ninety one right so it's really kind of out of their experience this whole dichotomy of all that it's true you're either a socialist the statist or account it's a false you know kind of frame it and i notice people in the media who oppose occupy wall street are always trying to impose it and i think as this story and you look at it. i look at this more like the bonus army marching one hundred thirty two down in washington they did occupy washington it was repressed but the movement continued also the sit down strikes in the thirty's in michigan that form the u.a.w. i mean that was occupation they occupied the factories martin luther king a poor people's campaign in sixty eight the goal was to do exactly that to come to washington and they were going to stay put he wanted to bring three hundred thousand people watch and they're going to occupy washing so they had a major poverty build so we don't have to reinvent the wheel here and also what's interesting i think we have to reinvent the wheel with the antitrust you know

because there's a rancher's and it's very much they really go rico statute yeah but i mean i mean we're all talking we're very good at describing what's going on here rachel fine go to you what do we do now what do they do now. well i think if they were smart the protesters would just opt out of wall street and off out of anything to do with the government and go out and create something whatever happened to the idea i think now the problem that we have the reason why the youth around the world specifically in western democracies are at this point is because they're so used to getting things and getting a lot of things without actually putting in a lot of effort somehow we ended up we ended up doing away with the idea of really having to work to get something now it's like they graduate from university i expect to have a job i expect to have benefits i expect to have a lot of money i expect to be able to buy everything that my parents can when they've been working thirty forty years longer than me this idea of starting with

nothing of leaving the nest of starting with a tiny little studio with almost no furniture a mattress on the floor and a dream that the idea that that you know you can start there and end up a billionaire is something that you really can only do in north america you don't need connections to government you don't need the connections to people with a lot of money you can come from a small town and you can make something of yourself because you have the freedom to do that and these people who are protesters have the freedom to get off wall street to forget about wall street to forget about the government and get out there and sell your talent whatever happened to that american idea of working hard selling your talent and making something of yourself and slowly building a life that maybe doesn't include your i phone right away doesn't include a beautiful house with a very nicely wrote what happened to starting small and earning things i don't know you seem to do are our community just our community got creamed i mean they laid off teachers firefighters counselors child protective services workers they closed

homeless shelters i mean they have just there's been of the new dean of the public sector at the local level at least here in sacramento we've got a twelve point five percent unemployment rate yours only and i just creamed all the low. services role i think my students parent therefore he has a last right where you take this question we have to go to embrace and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on global protests state hard to. keep. his to life long dream for many. months brave

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welcome back to crossfire peter lavelle to mind you were talking about protests around the world. kick. start. ok dave in philadelphia and i could go to you before we went to the break we were talking about it and it was well rachel that brought up the differences in generations that we have this in title meant to a generation now which i tend to agree with here but at the same time is there a sense that there's the little there's a lack of participation in democracy right now that they the young people particularly don't feel like they have any kind of impact on be quote unquote system and this is the this is another element here people talk about the financial element the the economic part of it but what about the democracy part about them participating in society. well let's back up for a second these students who are in the street one of the reasons they're there is because they they can't even afford their universities the cost of public education is going up to eighteen twenty thousand dollars

a year at public schools for in-state students my wife teaches that temple university a public institution in pennsylvania it's now eight hundred thousand dollars a year to go well the loans that are possible for these students are are these extortionate seven percent loans guaranteed government government backed loans they should be one percent these kids are running up hundred thousand. debts just going through four years of school and they're working hard for them i'm sorry they're not entitled these are working class kids that can't finish and then when they do pay and spend one hundred thousand or one hundred twenty thousand gone and interviewed these kids that on wall street some of them are working at forty thousand a year jobs after getting out of school and working for a couple years they can't even make payments on their loans on their living in new york so it isn't a matter of entitle it but if you get a job that pays you nothing and if you don't if you're not lucky you don't get

a job plus you've got this huge debt that's why these kids are so angry and they're not entitled ok rachel just. know that rachel really interesting point there and i think i think you touched on a really interesting point and i think that's half the problem i think over the last few decades the idea of graduating with it fairly useless liberal arts degree i mean out of work because you don't have a job that's in demand has been a problem so these kids go to school they pay a ton of money to be right it's ivy league there are just state schools or whatever they happen to be able to afford they end up with these huge debts they're not getting a job that's productive or useful to get conned me so therefore it doesn't pay very well i think that's actually part of the solution as well i think you're touching on part of it was the shining is north america in general you know that feature of north american general. it isn't high tech production and military production things that can be made in china things that can be made in emerging markets because we've outsourced all that just like they've outsourced their consumer base

to north america so i think if we start making high tech products that are acquired engineers that requires people who are specialized knowledge and guess what you are i don't understand why anyone here to hire the right i think are already more of a focus i don't use it in the johnson if i can if i could take that question in the end and give one to you right now it's very interesting is that it seems to be closer doesn't really matter what you do it's what you consume and that's what people are so upset about because they can't consume like they would like to consume what they expect to consume that's not what you do it's what you buy look look look let's move away from the pop psychology about the movement let's talk about the concrete issues the any quality levels in the society right now are myriad about one hundred twenty nine levels and that when when you have this inequality it actually hurts to man there's a demand crisis and so let me just get specific for a minute we don't have to reinvent the wheel you can bring it antitrust in a company like citi group they had bipartisan in the ninety's deregulation

a wall street citi group became a monster it's a hedge fund attached to an insurance company attached to a brokerage house just a commercial bank they got rid of glass steagall ok they ran roughshod over that was bipartisan obama gets in we expected him to do something about the banks he didn't do anything he just beholden to the same corporate interests it's very disillusioning to these young people to come out in mass for a president they think that might do something then to larry summers and tim geithner running the show still now this thing is a rico statute the racketeer influence and corrupt organization it's still on the books they they prosecuted michael milken in the eighty's with rico they could prosecute these people who packaged these c.e.o.'s and and bet against them you know citi group just paid two hundred seventy million dollars to settle with investors have to be stalled bill. from them recently out of court now that's just one example they were they were running rackets with the c.d.o. those and they collapse the entire housing wealth of the nation and cause all this

unemployment i mean they wrecked the economy and worse than having a pop psychology discussion on how the kids have useless liberal arts degrees are you kidding me it's not about training the inclination it's really ok just about anybody today anyway maybe it's a combination of both here dave you want to jump in there that's a complete that's a complete yeah it's completely wrong that kids are getting a liberal arts degree it's like a temple that they're studying that the people i talk to who are getting these forty thousand dollars jobs were but i have taken a job here and communications people those jobs those jobs are being exported overseas to china and india and. saying you need to train people for high tech jobs isn't going to work either because they can do it better in china they use of it or use it for half there or a quarter of the salary necessarily this is the only thing we want is there are no jobs in the united states there's twenty three percent unemployment if you use real number of right here in united states today to tell people they should go out and

work is ludicrous rachel jump in. well that can be equalized through through taxes and through taxes on imports of things they're made overseas and i think part of that is is and this is why we're facing a bit of a problem on this issue is because nobody is actually willing to lead on this and to make a value statement by saying look all of our jobs are being exploited because companies are outsourcing all of this this production to india to china to other countries that don't necessarily share our values and pay the same way that we as americans are we as canadians are we as a north american feel we should be paid so instead of saying look until that equalizes until that that that has more quality and people are being paid better over there and better over here we're going to put a tax on the imports of those products coming back into the country that but nobody's willing to do that because that means that you're going to a nursing home in that china is buying up all of the u.s. debt bonds so the reason why people are able to go that far this is using lines of

credit to buy these really expensive homes they can't afford is because china paying the bill and all right now joseph again i guess maybe i'm alone on this one here why don't they you know if there's such a groundswell here why don't just take on the politicians and get the big broom out and say it's time for you guys to go all of you ok i mean the difference between republicans and democrats on these issues are so very go ahead the political strategy is going to get there the political system is owned by money and greed how do you do that when the political systems complete by money where. people. just got i'll tell you what a better system is very very well if you're interim agreements that's why the jobs are being exported i'm sure. they've already got. those free trade agreements are a fait accompli they were put through bipartisan doesn't matter who's sitting there even obama right now is pushing the ones with panama and colombia ok that's the

other side you've got citizens united january. through ten they just completely it was a game changer the supreme court ruled that corporations can spend unlimited campaign dollars that mean those like throwing gasoline on a corrupt system you've got to get the money out of this stuff you've got to break up these big conglomerates reinstate some semblance of regulation and you've got to go after them with rico because if they're able to get away with this what is the deterrent for these too big to fail banks what's going to stop them from doing it again if they don't get a bill face any kind of prosecution or even right now the kids on wall street that are you know they were criticizing they know all this they're connecting all those dots they're corrupt senator durbin from illinois not long ago said the banks own a cent on the senate they own the senate that should have been a clarion call for campaign finance reform instead they've got a supreme court that is actually wants oligarch he wants a corporate oligarchy to run our politics you've got

a corporate media doesn't report on this stuff that's why our team is good that they're doing some more through their you know reporting on this stuff but there's no there's no reason why a company like citi group should even exist you want capitalism i'll give you calculus of i you break it down it's an insurance company i had spun investment bank a brokerage fund and a commercial bank and credit card company and you break all of those up you make them compete may have ten c.e.o.'s instead of one ok that rachel is rachel rajouri i can't you let me on that same with this movement here do you think do you think that these these these people and we've designated mostly young are they just solution to the process then i mean the dissolution will elect our senator will elect our representative i mean they're not they're way beyond that they're not in terms of thinking in terms of reforming the system they want to opt out of the system i mean this is that's i'm bringing up the r. word because i don't believe why where i had i think i've i think they just want more stuff ok period i think they just want more stuff without having to you know

it's not where i don't really see it for example. and this is i mean we can take this same discussion and apply it to the united kingdom today it was in the news in the u.k. that according to chamber of commerce report there are jobs that go laura available and people are showing up to be interviewed ok let me talk subprime that's happening in the last year of the chinese are you going to go ahead they did that kids are calling for a revolution these kids that are camping out in the cold in sleeping bags sometimes without even tents are not looking for stuff they're calling for a revolution they're calling for a total change in the system in the united states and the first thing they want is complete money out of the system they that would be a revolution in itself. you know as joseph said but so there clearly you're going to the instant you know what you know i mean is working for the people instead of for corporations all right joseph i'm going to give you the last word word i mean you joseph the last word on this program here what the revolution look like if it were to happen. we look like

a frank capra movie as american as. antagonist is mr hodder who owns everything but in the end he loses ok has nothing to do with socialism it has to do with basic american values of fairness and have an even playing field and not have you know oligarchies in this country rachel do you agree with corporate you've got ten seconds. i think they should all just go home and figure out how they're going to make a living period i think they should not worry about wall street now are you a pop psychology i don't you can make a life but i mean there's the i mean if you get a useless you mean like somebody there i do it is the arts degree would help you out i mean i know very interesting how to thank you very much i want to thank my guest today in paris philadelphia and in sacramento and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember crosstalk you. can. still. continue.

in india she's available in the movie going to join the hotel rooms the home of venus the gateway hotel the grand imperial college the taj west coast girl until you can a lesson to tell socialism which says don't need to go and. read this and the colonel was hoto as used to retreat.

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