as to reconsider saying this is a delicate time for the e.u. and not you for a large the m.e.p. from the u.k. independence party believes that far from being a uniting force the e.u. is quickly becoming a catalyst for conflict between nations. i want to europe where we cooperate together work together and sign agreements together not a europe where we hand over the ability to make those decisions to a group of unelected bureaucrats and on the argument of peace which now the e.u. supporters of for them back on because all their other arguments frankly failed look what kept the peace in europe are providing forty five was not the u. but didn't come along for many many what kept the peace was made an example of states cooperate together and i would also argue the fact that we had a nuclear deterrent and history shows you that if you take away from people their democracy their ability to govern themselves if you corral them together into a new state without their consent half of it leaving to peace the question now in

a deep recession with unemployment at a seventeen year high is not can we afford to leave the e.u. it's can we afford to stay the whole eurozone project is that what it's done far from bringing people closer together it's pushed people further apart not just for soccer being rude to cameron we now have the greeks abusing the germans they now burnie you flags in athens openly with swastikas drawn on them and we have the germans slagging off the greeks as being lazy and useless and the irony of this project is far from us all becoming friends together in this new european house actually we're beginning to argue and bicker in the most extraordinary way you can all take twenty seven different countries with twenty one different languages all with their own different histories and different forms of government you cannot take them and force them into one unitary form of government without first getting . their approval that approval has never been given and the european project

actually is dying as we look at it may take many years just as the soviet union did but it's dying as we look at it because right across europe the voters are saying we don't want this model we rejected. well for more perspective on the vote and its outcome let's now talk to john gaunt he's a member of the vote the u.k. out of a new dot co dot u.k. organization is live there in london john we've talked about britain's membership of the e.u. before it's very clear that you want britain to be out of the european union now of course over something like six hundred fifty m.p.'s in parliament seventy so far they want a referendum it seems that the argument you're making that very few are actually listening to it. well that's not strictly true is it bill i mean the fact is one hundred thousand people signed a petition that was david cameron's idea in fact there's been almost half a million people have signed petitions it was cameron's idea if enough people

signed a petition that debate in parliament that's what's happening today although what has happened is all three political leaders of the three main political parties have effectively colluded and are now have now issued a three line party whip they're telling their m.p.'s which way they have to vote so tonight we've got just scarce thing attack on democracy in the whole room the mother of all parliaments where these m.p.'s are not voting with their conscience or with their constituents opinions they're voting or the way their leaders tell them to because if they don't they'll get the sack well i don't know about you bill but that isn't democracy british democracy it democracy is shamed by this this evening this may be a symbolic salute describe john this may be a symbolic vote but it's meaningless and it's not binding well but the message is giving is it not a message that britain is simply not supporting its european neighbors when it's a time like this britain needs the e.u. and the e.u.

needs britain journeys dire economic circumstances. disagree i think we need to trade with european countries just like norway do just like switzerland i don't actually think we need to be part of a political super state and i was not a jew farmer are just said form you can't no one signed up i'm fifty seven but in the age of fifty four has not a vote on this and certainly my dad when he voted for a common market he didn't vote for the united states of europe that's what british people are upset about let me tell you what's happening bill there's a disconnect between the political elites in our great country and the people we had a survey for u.k. out of e.u. only three days ago done by hugo of and three quarters of people surveyed said they want out or they want a referendum the political elite in westminster mark try and stop has but a very chilly we will get our referendum and we will get out of the let me tell you it's not our problem to sort out the problems in greece and tell me why we should

work to the age of seventy two or seventy three to pay for staff ross who lives in downtown athens to retire at fifty we shouldn't we're not going to it's the end this euro's state is collapsing as we speak to talk about the political elite making the decision for the people but even membership is a very complex issue there are many benefits and there are many negatives through the british people really understand what the issues are all about. at no they don't you're right which is why we should have a referendum because if we had a referendum bill it wouldn't be next week would it it would be about a year or so so to be plenty of time to discuss it on shows like this on the b.b.c. on scar and i t n on c.n.n. on russia today no problem at all let's have the big grownup to buy it let's hear both sides of the argument and then let the poor official the united kingdom people decide their fate that's called democracy william hague used to being euro skeptic i was in the house of commons today when that man betrayed his own beliefs his own

principles i mean the bill trade the british public why are they so scared of australia bill they're scared that we're right and that we would win in a referendum well that's not democracy my friend let me just ask you within that referendum there is of course the point about negotiation obviously leaving the euro or staying in now what about renegotiation when when the e.u. is clearly in effect on its knees when we look at what's going on here is i this is the time for britain to really strengthen its membership by renegotiating terms and conditions yeah that's the spin that david cameron have you you cannot renegotiate with the you the only way to renegotiate is to get out and then negotiate from our position of strength to say we are leaving once we do that then we can negotiate the idea of a negotiated settlement with the no way this also a law i because of what happened with the lisbon treaty you're not allowed to

renegotiate why would you the twenty seven countries accept any renegotiation no the british people want to straight in or out referendum on the question of should we stay or should we go no what's happening in parliament today with this is a third option of renegotiation and always say to the political elites of all parties why don't you just give us the vote let's have a debate for a year or so let's have the referendum if i lose all my side lose i'll accept it because the. that's called democracy but what's happening at the moment is almost dictatorship in our great country just politically they know that they benefit from the we're not benefited we're losing jobs we're losing our livelihoods and people have had enough of it and they want their right to speak thousands will justify the element it'll happen just finally as a people want their right to speak what it was thirty five years ago when the public was consulted about e.u. membership and you can have to wait another thirty five years because it doesn't look as if it could be imminent does it. not going to be tomorrow you're right bill

but it will happen we've got nash three national papers now calling for a referendum every paper today is condemned david cameron for using a three line whip ourselves say he's abused democracy today he'll win tonight he'll win this battle he's going to lose the war people are not happy in this country because even if they don't agree with me and they want to get out people can't see a reason why we should have a referendum and david cameron is wrong to instill the three line whip always good to talk to john thanks so much for your time i know it's a busy day. great to have your member of the u.k. out of the year dot co dot u.k. organization is a bit of a mouthful but i have to say thanks for joining us john. well coming up a little later in the program here on r t six reports the health of egypt's former leader hosni mubarak is shrouded in mystery sources suggest a heart attack has left him in a critical condition but his lawyer denies those claims. but first

libya's new leaders of one ordered an investigation into the death of former leader moammar gadhafi following mounting international pressure this is libyans erupted in celebration after the announcement their country had been completely liberated but there are plenty of questions over the cost of what they now call freedom and the tsunami as this report. certainly people celebrating across the country as the official so-called liberation was announced on sunday celebrations very widely here in the capital tripoli and very few people we go i'm asked them what they want now from the end to see and whoever comes in right now the organization promising elections within a month but analysts are saying that of course is not for sure thing because the population is very heavily armed even up the celebrations although there were lots of games and things for the kids to do there there's a lot of weapons out on the streets at least as i've been seeing here in the capital and so their next step now is of course to disarm the population because

there are fears that first of all there could be conflict between different tribes across the country and then within the end to see another officials these were the rebels that began this fight for freedom in benghazi earlier this year that there will be a power struggle in fact between them and most of those books from very well armed and so that's one of the security one of the security challenges that the country is now facing among other things much of the country has been destroyed there are tremendous challenges let's not forget that pre war in libya had one of the best living standards on the entire continent some people say that in fact it had the best in terms of life inspect expectancy child mortality rates there were great social benefits received your style health care program and so once the dust settles and people start realizing for instance sixty percent of the country right now doesn't have running water if you're going to rush on for my place at least

here in the capital i'm sure it's much much worse in other parts of the country there's no running water and so about starting to happen so they were planning to travel she was one of the country's main water systems which was completely destroyed and still being disputed who destroyed it whether it was nato or the docks few more oil was but this is. one of the problems that people will be facing and then in terms of that actual political situation like i said elections promise in eight months but that of course is not for sure and we just had this announcement from the head of the m.t.c. saying that the weight easy the political life of the country because towards real law this is something that experts were afraid that they were advising the country without gadhafi is going to take a much more hard line islamic direction. and he said remember you can keep track of and he said in the libyan capital just by taking a look at a twitter feed and some of his post we can see there on the screen she's tweeted

pictures of residential areas in tripoli shot of a nato. key to know your opinion on the top story today on our web site a. reason behind. all the vast majority believe that it's because he could have exposed dirty dealings in libya by western governments and corporations. money for more aerial strikes believe gadhafi is to blame for the hatred many libyans had for him and others say he was killed because many members were his former subordinate to. call me express your point. human rights watch has accused revolutionary forces in libya of considering themselves above the law. says it has discovered the bodies of more than fifty gadhafi loyalists in sirte thought to be revenge killings by his political blogger has told me earlier that the interim government is not the best alternative to the gadhafi regime.

people have way too much faith in the n t c which is quite obviously not in control of the situation on the ground in libya at the moment and in fact you're going to see the tension between the n.t. see command and some of the more islamist led groups on the ground and in fact if you see some of the fighters on the ground they have the characteristics of islamist fighters the long. history of from afghanistan on wards so this illusion that the entity has full control on the ground is not actually correct and i would say that the events that we're seeing them could be personal event that buzz could be their normal run of wars but maybe another party in libya could have presented their evolution of the us federation of the us to delegitimize for change better that and then in d.c. that still has a lot of former gadhafi associates and cronies within it so that's really the nub of the problem speculation surrounds the health of egypt's former leader hosni

mubarak the reports that he's in hospital fighting for life after suffering a heart attack but his lawyer denies those claims auntie's middle east correspondent has the details. official word from the hospital that is looking after the former egyptian president hosni mubarak is that he is suffering from heart problems that there has been an increase in his blood pressure but nothing more serious than that now since august the international medical center has both looked off to mubarak and also kept him there as prisoner them official word is that despite rumors he has not been moved into intensive care and i mention rumors because there are certainly a lot of rumors circulating that the privately owned it took your newspaper al to here has quoted hospital staff and you say that his heart stopped beating for a few seconds this coincided with other grimace we heard that he was clinically did ask you speaking to all sources on the ground in cairo and they say that since late last night there's been a lot of movement in front of the hospital that overheard hospital start talking

amongst themselves that he has been moved into intensive care and that the situation is very very critical as you can well imagine it's very difficult to determine right now what is the real situation in terms of mubarak's health we we're also hearing reports that it was when he saw pictures on television in terms of what happened to his friend warmonger duffy in libya he got such a shock from those pictures that that triggered this latest reaction the former egyptian president has been plagued by poor health for many years in june this year his lawyer said that he had stomach cancer and that it was now spreading i spoke to that lawyer a short time ago he now says that mubarak's health is fine but certainly we know that he has high blood pressure there's been reports of hypertension there was a report of a heart attack earlier this year so the state of mubarak's health will continue to be a hot issue for some time to come. well still to come in the program this year and spreading the word. march over a hundred or more wall street for the rest of the chicago continuing the string of

detention the movement spreads across the country. internet. whistleblower wiki leaks is suspending operations to focus on raising money instead its founder julian assange said a financial blockade imposed by american financial institutions has cut off most of the websites funding bodies of the bennett was at this news conference gave in london. in order to ensure future survival which was temporal use has been all publishing operations in order to direct all. resources into fighting the blockade and raising firms because of this financial blockade sons revealed in that press conference that ninety five percent of their fund raising has dried up since that look came into force on the early december stopped funds getting through stop that stop donations and they've been running on

cash reserves and it's just a matter of time really until that ran out and the companies involved are people like visa master card pay pal bank of america and that all that financial blockade all happened about a week or so after what's being referred to as cable gate when wiki leaks released all those. secret cables from u.s. embassies in the diplomatic service julian a son he's calling this as a u.s. base concerted political attack and it's not from the government though they have actually seen this to be without any lawful grounds as has the u.n. high commissioner for human rights he says he's condemned the blockade instead science says it's being carried out by politicized u.s. financial companies now they have actually pursued legal action they've opened previous case in action in a number of countries where they have publication deals iceland denmark the u.k. the e.u. us australia as well they've also lodged a complaint with the european commission a decision on that is due in mid november as to whether visa has broken any rules

here but until that there's really nothing they can do because they've simply run out of money. losing wiki leaks to an unlawful financial blockade will be a blow to freedom of speech but others will carry on the cause well that's the view of dr de long he's the president of the national union of journalists in britain i spoke to him a little earlier. it's obviously been a very murky affair because there were of the very beginning of the situation questions about. tension members of the u.s. government had suggested or asked companies like amazon which was the first to take action against wiki leaks because they were hosting this size and what they may have been asked by individuals within the u.s. government obviously this is been these acts have been taken outside of any legal process side of any international political agreements yet they seem to have the ability to shut down a website that some governments find troubling. it's very unclear exactly what the motivations what the power behind them and it is it's deeply unsettling it would be

a loss to the media and a loss to freedom of speech if it disappeared but i don't think this will be the end of it we did see one of the first attempts were made to shut down the mirror sites appeared all over the world because the information simply wants to come out so i'd be hopeful that actually if unfortunately wiki leaks was forced to close down that we would see other sides seeking to do the same kind of thing and getting around the restrictions of wiki leaks placed. one hundred thirty activists of the occupy chicago movement to being arrested for camping out in the city park after closing time holding a protest inspired by the occupy wall street demonstrations against corporate greed and the influence of the rich in government the movement has existed for over a month now and spread across five continents back in new york dozens of people were arrested in the police crackdown on activists just days ago for more on the rough tactics police are using against protesters we're joined by nate but clearly he's in buffalo new york and he's from the national confederation to end unjust

incarcerations and free political prisoners well you say that you were a victim of exessive police force in an earlier protest tell us briefly what happened. it was a protest and all wars of us aggression at home and abroad and we were at the bank we went from there to city hall to the federal building and to the bankers stand the wars are put on by a conglomerate of different forces and the fund the wars. and they also got six hundred million dollars in bell funds and have none of that back and while we were there i was arrested and charged with eleven counts of inciting things and i was maced club tackle well many concerned of course that police brutality has indeed become a commonplace response to public protests and that's why the sounds of things just

what you were doing protesting and judging by the experience you had you would agree that this is becoming more commonplace. i agree that it happens it's commonplace. just became complacent it's been throughout history whether be the union uprisings whether it was the civil rights activists whether was anti-nuclear or the world trade organization protesters it's always been used but now that there's more cameras around and there's more access ability you can put something global before it wasn't able to get out there have been many economic protests in countries before now why do you think this occupy wall street movement has become so widespread and unified. i think a lot of it is based upon it doesn't have formal leaders and it doesn't have any formal objective per se so it's really easy for people to sign on to something like their what a month since it began the occupy movement is spread over five continents as i said

at the start of this being all over the news of course got a lot of media coverage but what all the dangers of the media losing interest in all of this. or they lose their support and then as they become vulnerable to police repression and if they want to become powerful they're going to have to actually change from the ninety nine to the one percent the actual power dynamic there you have to do more than just occupy well we're going to do more than just occupy parks in public places you know in order to avoid protest fatigue as it were because as i say we've seen many protests of course throughout europe and now we're seeing this one the occupy wall street movement occurring throughout many many cities throughout the world you've got to do something different in some ways have you not to capture the media and the public's imagination. yeah i think things branching out into serving in addressing the public's needs opposed and continuing what they do but also to address the public's needs and provide the services that

the system is capable of doing and to broaden the movement they have to continue to become up with creative ways to get the to the media but it's also to start providing where the government lacks and is on able to just briefly are talking about addressing the public's needs so many issues have been addressed within these protests but will it really achieve anything. i don't what will this is to beginning it's a staging point to get people involved in active life people have ideas and they don't have places to go with that but if they want to really continue and get to places you know places that have and places that have brought about change in the in the past have had to go upon different tactics and become much more organized and strategic about what they do at this point it's like in its infancy steps and there's a lot of people really and you're frustrated but with a lot of past experience or else experience that way it doesn't lead to things

becoming structurally change a lot of this reform movement at this point and if you really want to begin to challenge the system on the major issues and fundamental issues that we're talking about ninety nine to one percent that didn't happen overnight it's been a structural inequality that's happened throughout the entire history of known civilization from when the inception of when they came to america and stole the native land and slavery and at this point this is the same continuation of the system and to change that we need a revolution and structural change and fundamental change opposed to just reform ok buckley thanks very much indeed live from the u.s. thanks for your thoughts that. now to some other international headlines for you this hour on r.t. in our world update tanks and artillery have allegedly been firing of buildings and vehicles and syria's central province of homs you're watching amateur footage released by an anti government group which alleges this is the result of the

shelling it's claimed cars and houses were targeted randomly hundreds been a hotbed of dissent since the uprising against president assad's regime began in march. over two hundred seventy people have been killed and hundreds more are feared dead after a seven point two magnitude earthquake hit eastern turkey the highest number of casualties are reported in the city's system van where dozens of buildings collapsed on top of residents trapping them this is the most powerful earthquake in over a decade for turkey which lies in one of the world's most active seismic zones. turkish tanks and armored vehicles have moved into northern iraq heading to a kurdish militant camp situated near the city of zarko according to news agency reuters this was a string of cross border operations launched after kurdistan workers party fighters killed twenty four turkish soldiers last week on saturday turkish troops killed around fifty kurdish rebels in a valley near the iraqi border using artillery and air strikes.

brings you up to date for the moment this is r.t. live here in moscow but with some of our main news stories for you in about two and a half minutes from now stay with us live here in moscow.

leg . for so long. there's no way to see the little man.

if you want to have sex go and have sex. here in the russian capital good to have you with top stories now this hour libya's new rulers order an investigation into his death and promised to introduce islamic

and build a democracy on the ruins of a prosperous nation. health of egypt's former leader. is shrouded in mystery sources suggest a heart attack has left him in critical condition but his denies those claims. plugged into. american financial institutions refusing to accept donations for credit cards it's fun of the fun and. also the e.u. summit in brussels to generate some. tension over the debt crisis. a revolt by peace who want. the union. lobby back with another of those main news stories when fifteen minutes from now in the meantime more on the euro skeptic views opening up in the cracks in britain's government u.k. conservative party m.p. patrick talks about why he sees a future outside of the e.u. .