hello again to welcome to the spotlight they interview cheryl tiegs. my guest on the program is. israel says the unrest in the middle east didn't harm tell over but the arab spring has inspired many palestinians to step up the fight for independence israel's closest neighbors syria and egypt are still in turkey so how does the jewish state cope with the revolutionary spirit within and outside its borders we're asking the former head of the israeli security council and senior research fellow at the institute for national security studies and. although the arab spring didn't affect israel directly it's complicated jerusalem's

relations with its neighbors the former egyptian leader hosni mubarak was the jewish state's staunch ally for three decades but after he got overthrown a long simmering who's still a tear gassed israel has burst into the open. but israel shows he's ready to talk just days ago in jerusalem managed to bring back its soldier from the palestinian captivity in return for more than a thousand palestinians. together thank you thank you very much for being with us well first of all i'd like to ask you. about this exchange of more than a thousand palestinian prisoners for one captured israeli soldier. it's a controversial matter everybody welcomes it but some say it's a concession to hamas on the part of israel how would you comment on. well it was a controversial matter because this proposal of one prisoner for two for one

thousand is president of course it has the interest consequences and we go to the future personally i think about it it was not a smart decision to agree to such a deal i think that we missed some better approach in the does in the past five years but at least it shows the israeli public is extremely concerned about every specific person and especially about the person that as a uniform and it was sent by the country to defend the state and the country shows that we are ready to do almost anything in order to save him. and but it might have some dangerous consequences that's why i think that in the long term it was not necessarily a very smart decision let's take a look at one of the largest prisoner exchange deals in the middle east history spotlights in the media reports of. gilad shalit and israeli soldier was captured inside he's country by hamas militants more than five years ago he was

toasted you know gaza in exchange for his release and was demanded the release of one thousand palestinians serving prison sentences and these are the negotiations lingered as the two sides used mediators to broker the deal finally on the eighteenth of october so it was released on his first interview he said he hoped to do you would help peace between israel and palestine i work with the exchange itself is not altogether peaceful this israeli soldiers and palestinians waiting to greet released prisoners clashed the west bank the swap of more than a thousand prisoners to one soldier remains a controversial issue for both sides the palestinians on do these really media and soup. orders of israel over the world were much more preoccupied with the issue of do you watch and with the issue of more than seven thousand palestinian prisoners

in one terror attack victims in this row i shocked with the decision to release people who were responsible for the deaths of israeli civilians. if israel proved capable to negotiate this deal that we just heard about maybe it's time to continue negotiating with hamas to can the talks come hours. and the problem is not to negotiate with anyone the question is on what exactly you negotiate and isil i can tell you was sick but this is negotiating with hamas on a lot of practical arrangements because hamas is controlling gaza which is in a way almost a state and we have a border with gaza so we have a sort of southern of the relationship we cannot speak with hamas about political solution for the simple reason that commerce is against any political solution and they clambered the only possible solution to the israeli palestinian conflict is

the elimination of the state of israel as well there's very little to discuss as long as this is the position. can you say can you predict what will be israel's reaction when the u.n. general assembly will sooner or later this will happen recognizes the state of. israel already said as long as disses only a statement of the general assembly and he does not translated to proactive action in the un security council it has very little meanings and the basic approach is to try to ignore it and as long as the palestinians don't do anything provocative against the real israeli vital interest we are not going to respond but but i think that the countdown has started already to to publish timed membership for membership in the un don't you agree that this will happen i think in our

lifetime i don't know it depends very much not only on these early approach but also on the american the porridge and fortunately some of the european countries do understand that a solution to this will oppose them a conflict needs to really go she ation and not unilateral decision because this is a little decision by itself even if it is declination does not solve any of the problems and naturally isil is not going to be blow from these areas without a reasonable security security arranged. and now in order to ever such arrangements you have to negotiate if you don't negotiate we cannot take such measures sale and when this when and if this recognition happens do you should we rather expect and you intifada the west bank would you say i don't think so and in the past eleven you repeatedly said that they don't want to support something like this for many reasons the most philistines who live in the west bank enjoy to their better lives compared to where they had in the past and many of them

are not going to circle fired for something that doesn't have a real prospect of success and i think that most of them understand the them loans that there is a little cannot read little from unless there is the real negotiation i hope this beginning of recalled nation my cross where the palestinian the thirty two you read to the negotiations with no preconditions amazingly and this is where we are right now this is a prime minister says and i'm not there present to give him the talking or the government but he does say i'm ready to begin dating the goshen today with no preconditions well the palestinians say we are ready to negotiate but we do have to plea conditions first for as the said the member given these and more important you have to declare in advance that you accepted the ball those will be a set of borders while the prime minister said this as to be negotiable they cannot

agree in advance to make compromise for something that i don't know what i'm going to be given in the. well. let's change the subject the israelis this year have suddenly experienced a changed change of climate zone well to east you've been living in the so-called arab spring for the last well eight or nine even nine months so what has been arab spring arab summer now arab autumn and still it is the arab spring well what i want to ask. does it somehow change the position of israel in the region i mean the the events in around the country around israel unfortunately in the shoulder are no dumping this spring seems to be much more like the winter is going to be something promising not only to us but also to the people that we go in this the volution let's speak about egypt for a few seconds the people of protested in the streets of cairo nine months ago they

had a very clear expectations to see the removal of mubarak this is something simple number two to enjoy real freedom and real democracy and number three more important than anything else to enjoy better life better economy now what is the situation in egypt today the leader of egypt is the former defense minister of mubarak so in a way this is the same system. not much more freedom is going to be given there is going to be an election to the parliament in which the islamic movement the muslim brotherhood will take over. and almost it was going to be elected to be the president is probably going to fail because the economic situation in egypt is terrible in this is not going to be much better in the next five years so the people who expect to see a dramatic economic change today might be very disappointed and if you ask me what

is my prediction my prediction is that enabled to the will be in the wave of them on a station that will reflect the for. station of the people and their agent or all around the region because specifically in egypt and then when this kind of for another demonstrations begin the muslim brotherhoods will come to the people and after being at the probably the biggest part in the parliament there will say to the egyptian people we told you there is only one solution to your problem and this is islam so my turn to be a very slow mixtape with all the consequences not only in regard to israel but also in regard to the young educated secular people of egypt all began this but i it's incredible i would say that not really islam is the solution to the economic problems of these years but but returning hundreds of thousands of people to hard work instead of demonstrating i think this is the main so i'm not saying that it is that i sit back and saying that this is what the muslim brothers this is what we

were there to tell that this is wrong isn't it i suppose it is wrong but we had a very similar experience in iran only thirty two years ago very similar situation there was a corrupted leader the people hated him they began a real democratic process. even chose a prime minister but but the muslims were much more organize so home and in the way to go over so we can see today in iran that those people who really wanted the chance thirty duce ago are now left with a very extreme islamic regime so sometimes sort of olution begin in one direction but the outcome is very different says a lot of former head of the israeli security council and senior research fellow of the israeli institute for national security studies spotlight will be back shortly after we take ten great stay with will continue condition.

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free. free studio time free. download free broadcast quality video for your media projects a free media oh god r.t. dot com. we'll. bring you the latest in science and technology from around russia. we've got the future covered. welcome back to spotlight i'm just a reminder my guest on the show today is you are a land former head of the israeli security council and senior research fellow at the institute in israel institute for national security studies. and we were

talking about egypt about israeli relations with egypt but we saw a violent and israeli protests earlier this year we saw at the israeli embassy in cairo in flames and well this was a very unfortunate thing for the relations between the two countries has this incident been settled by now are your lation any better i mean official relations between the two countries becomes official relationship between the israeli government and the current egyptian government is pretty good both of us understand that we do show mutual interest to stabilize the situation we do understand some of the sensitivities so as long as this kind of discussions continue there is little reason to be concerned as a said i'm not sure that this regime in egypt will be the regime able to use one now and if that then many things might change in the middle east has the israeli e.g. would border become more vulnerable what i want to ask is who is behind the acts of

sabotage against his pipeline and the border d.d.l. any idea. it is very clear since this change in egypt with the risen decrease in the influence and the control of the egyptians police the egyptian security agencies it is all over the egypt but the specifically in sinai which is not the most important area for egypt so this vacuum is used today by certain groups from hamas people in gaza the go to sinai to other people smuggle weapons from libya or from sudan or other places and they find it is a very. comfortable area to begin to conduct. regions against this live we have to take certain measures that we did not take all the ills where we could more rely on the gyptian zz but i don't think that this by itself is a distorted for those that does that one really does it bother israel that the

bloke aid of the gaza strip from the egyptian side was eased that there's never been a real blockade from the egyptian side in the past i would say five years says this will be brought from guys are huge quantities of weapons that have been smuggled from egypt to go within the gyptian an assistance or without the egyptian assistance in the end of the day guys have become to be a very. that is armed with the very advanced weapons this is typical for that we face we face it in gaza we face a very similar situation resolved the lebanon will has belies a strong girl and a bully isn't managed to create that loose ineffective determiners so for the time being the situation is under control now i like interviewing politicians from israel because they're pretty straightforward usually they're they're pretty frank in what they say can you tell me frankly what's easier after israel to deal

with democratically elected governments in the neighboring countries or to deal with predictable dictators that are in changeable for decades. the best of course is to negotiate with a real democracy but for the time being we cannot see any real democracy in the region let's take syria for example those not secure that bashar assad is a one of our biggest enemies is supporting because of allies a good friend of you done. syria official is perceived to be an enemy of israel but to certain extent even managed to control the borders so the border between israel and syria is a little league plan so it leads there is someone who is accountable if bashar assad goes to more and i think that he will go to more and from the moral point of view opinion but he should go because he's doing unacceptable things stories on people. can you tell me what will be the outcome the outcome could be very different it could be from any of the knee and take over of syria it could be this

the muslim brother was that the very strong in syria too will take over and will consist will construct let's say variant is a really a government or syria can. can be. divided into different areas and even the stability of that syria had in the past thirty or forty years will go so at least in the short run this kind of change create a lot of concerns and even if in the end of the day there will be a real democratic state in the arab world just as it has been that be a long day it will be a long day just as it happened in their western europe and then in eastern europe and then in south america it is a process that takes years and before we tip and so we have good reasons to be concerned because we live in this is so so as you said as you said for example of bashar as it should go but this is not in the immediate practical interest of your country now not saying that i can tell you. a little secret that seventy years ago

on the worst some ideas in these were to try to help those who wanted to move bashar assad and some of them serve worley is a very bad person why don't we support the removal of such a bad person and this early prime minister that i'm sure on the side that not only that it is not our business to interfere but he also said that he was not sure what is the real is really interest because we did none of the know who might to succeed but if he goes so fortunately we do have a lot of other problems fortunately we have the privilege of not being part of the game that is played around us we are not interfering in any place neither in egypt nor in syria and all in and other places hopefully that in. the end of the day there will be real democracy is in this too in this compass something that i cannot see in the near future mr allen we saw washington pretty happy over the death of

little khadafi was his death good news for for israel for officials are. the reason very little influence. of the situation in libya on any kind of easily interest saw in this case we could observe the situation in libya from distance and i think the majority of the people in these little we're very happy with the end of gadhafi not because this is our winters but because it is it was a bad and cold person and hopefully will bring the change a positive change to his own people so now. you know the one i want to talk about your relations with turkey as we remember they were destroyed well if not destroyed but but but really much harmed by by the israelis raid against the the for the telly of the gaza for till you now do you think that israel is is trying to day

to to to really improve the relations with this country i think that is a list trying to do whatever we can in order to improve the relationship there was a content a few days ago we've been over those sisters that was rejected by the turks. this is not our decision mr. those successful domestically in turkey made a strategic decision to become to be the leader of this lambic world or at least in this sunni islamic world and in order to gain much more support in syria lebannon produced in the in arena egypt and elsewhere yes very much doubt it in tel aviv exactly the best and the most. i would say promising action that they can take is to be against israel because whenever you take actions against israel it increases your popularity and he's ready to settle for the relationship with israel for something that for him is more important soviet union tried it in the seventy's and it did work. but it is different in the sense that even believes that it can be

there really though that can take over the traditional with all of countries like egypt saudi arabia and others that some of the power of the munition so you believe that it will be their real islam weekly bill and all the problems with the flotilla and others were only excuses that were used by him in no the to deter you are delusional a ship with israel because this is the. you mentioned you mentioned the transformation in our via the regime's after the revolution after the arab spring and you said that that maybe by the end of the day which will be a long day there may be real democracy but now they may go the other way not the way that the revolution was proclaiming in the slogans is that. theer are very early and islam is ation of the region of radical islam coming to to

surround israel. no doubt that this is a concern actually as two wings there is deeded onion ring which is more cheers ring and iran is trying to not only to be to is a but also to export what they call the one of the evolution partially successful in lebanon lebanon is for all practical purposes is controlled by iran for its proxy isabella and at the same time the muslim brother was in egypt in the some other companies are trying to create again a different but the additional islamic movements. that can be moderate on one hand but can be much more extreme but when never is there is concern even moderate muslims are against islam so you cannot feel and the islamic leader no matter our more duties that can say simply that well as the right to exist as a jewish state to additionally only live just lee you cannot accept it so slim

ization of the middle east is bad for is a little and since we are looking at the we have good reasons to be concerned and you are really afraid of that i mean this is a threat to your country and military threat if at threat to to to to the existence of your country what are you just a concern or you afraid this is this is a difference you know we are not afraid we must enough in our father problems in our puzzle we are not afraid but we are concerned but i will give you an example we do have a peace agreement with egypt this preserve game and give is a lot of benefits one of them it was an economic benefit because israel could decrease dramatically the size of the defense budget since the day that we signed a peace agreement with egypt so the size of the defense budget that was thirty percent of the g.d.p. only thirty five years ago now is only six percent and we could do it thanks to the good relationship with egypt if it changes who knows what will the consequences thank you thank you very much for this interview and just to remind you that my

guest on the show was your. former head of the israeli security council and now a senior research fellow at the israeli and stupid for national security standards and that's it for now from all of us if you want to have your say on spotlight or if somebody's mind who you think i fit into the next right here drop me a live album in our path. are you and let's keep the show interact but i will be back with more of a comment on what's going on in and out thank gosh until then they are our team and take.

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half of greek debt and give the country another hundred billion euro in rescue. and there's good office family plans to sue nato for striking the late colonel's convoys trying to leave the lances also being blamed for the flood of weapons on the libyan streets. you're watching r t welcome to the program our top story now there's been a fresh clashes between police and the wall street protesters in new york followed by arrests several hundred people marched in the city streets to show solidarity with fellow activists in oakland california who suffered a severe crackdown by riot squads. the cost of elements in new york.