wrapping up their campaign in libya al going off asks karl lammers the president of the alliances parliamentary assembly whether the intervention was justified that's coming up next in our interview show spotlight. welcome to the spotlight. today my guest in the studio is carl. the world survey libyan leader muammar gadhafi is dead after nearly a year of violence he was captured. by a furious crowd now the dictator is gone and so is the nato support force the

allies around the packing their bags. while the world speculates if the intervention was the right thing or not. should not support the just one side of. premature to withdraw now all of the good that the supporters. so wouldn't it have been reasonable to stay and secure peace in the region for allied force. business to. the president of the nato parliamentary assembly carl. one of the key points of the current major strategies to save guard democracy in the world when libya's gadhafi started to show the rising opposition to the alliance decided to intervene in just a few months because the new regime in the country taking almost no casualties the libya mission is now considered a model of

a successful peacekeeping operation but many fear the alliance may soon the role of the world's policeman and start spreading democracy. design. hello slammers it's a privilege to have you in the studio thank you for coming thank you for the invitation ok well first of all let's discuss the nato russian matters since you're here since you're in moscow well one of the problem is in the relations between nato and russia is there is that list and she'll think yes well they loaned it steps to deploy missile defense in europe and russia feels that you know discussing it with moscow well russia has labeled it i quote a policy of established facts that is what how russia calls this may sound deployment there isn't to provoke growing tension between the two countries what would you say you feel that i don't sing saw one of the intentions of our visit

here at the parliamentary assembly of nato and of our very senor body of our assembly is to exchange views and to get a better understanding of each other and so one very important point is missile defense we spoke about this with support them and terry and and we have the impression that they understand where we will what we intend based on the list from some it is specially our friends from russia were invited to get in gauged in this system i think we all agree that threats missile threats are increasing and that we should do everything to cooperate in building up their system against. dangerous missile threats and so i think it was a good invitation. for the russians to get in gauged in the system and that

means that we should cooperate and the first saying what i want to make very clear is that this is a. very defensive not aggressive system that is not directed against your country but you are in white it's to cooperate in building up a system with coordination with the sharing of data this with sharing of threat assessment to coordinate the systems we have and to lead this to a success at the benefit of us all this letter is as you understand you are not the first late show that i have asking about the system and this is the answer i get all the time that this is a defensive thing it's not aimed against russia i know you say that you have lots of understanding with moscow on this issue right but on the other hand when everyone opened the papers we see this is

a very dangerous thing russia has to counter react so is it just like a sort of a propaganda thing like a war of words just for the press while you when you sit over the table you have added standing or you feel that there is a list understanding of the russians maybe there is a little bit misunderstanding there is misperception and therefore we are here i think that is a good culture to be in a good in an open dialogue and to exchange views to make clear what we want we face the same threats and saying it is good to cooperate as surfacing the same threats it is to bundle the efforts to bundle our power and i think in the meeting today maybe we got a little bit more access to our colleagues to make this clear and to tell them that it is better not to wait till we can agree on everything when we have the chance to

agree on anything and that means not waiting for command and control some seeing what is not possible. to decide no but to take care of coordination and of bringing together data this we can share and i think that is to be among our parliamentarians from nato countries from russia to bring a better understanding of that's what this system means there i've got a quote for you from the russian foreign minister sergey lavrov who is who is of course a diplomat he has always been very diplomatic and he's always been very moderate he's nothing like mr no you know he's very more you know listen to what he says he told a serb newspaper called the cherami navasky i quote mosco will have to take military technical measures if the u.s.

and nato continue to ignore its position end quote so what lover of who is a foreign minister is saying that we will take military retaliation measures because u.s. nato is ignoring our position so no understanding are we think announce raise here. we don't want the arms race we want cooperation we live in the time when confrontation turns to cooperation and i give a good wise to your minister of foreign affairs for mr lavrov to accept the invitation to be in gaged and i think our principles are very clear that is transparency predictability cooperation and as much as russia is engaged in the system i think we can dispel all misperceptions and misunderstandings we have turmoil one of the arguments i know russian diplomats have is that if this system can the damage russia as nato claims then then then what proves it

if nato isn't ready to give legally binding guarantees to moscow this system cannot damage russia. this is not directed against russia that is directed against the common threats may be stretched against russia and against nato countries and if you will speak about. legally binding assurance i say this system is based on trust the system is based on confidence we can put it in writing huge you can get it written but a sink if you look for an international treaty that is it will last a long time but that is not what is necessary and don't know what this purpose should serve we should build up a system based on confidence on trust and as much as you are engaged in the system

you know that there is no reason for mistrust you mean trust is more important than legal papers absolutely in such matters such a paper would be would be not worth the the nccam that you spend it is don't try to sing trust and confidence are more important than letters ok now now from the papers and from the first reports from your meetings with the russian i get that the russian side wants nato to provide noting legal guarantees that there is no threat related offense but also the exact parameters of the system that russia wants to possess it's the number of into septimus hours location speed range and so when they say nato is not providing them with that information is it true and if it is is it because because like are there is that sort of a distrust like a traditional distrust of the military of both sides towards each other i think we are politically were very open to deliver all datas military has not militarily politically militarily if we want to build up such

a system if you speak about complementarity of two systems now or to work to bring them together i sing the most important point now is. to come to a common threat assessments to come to data sharing and to coordinate the system so step by step we could and should develop the system and then we would solve the problem and that would dispel the misperceptions and the misunderstanding and the mistrust and if there is no confidence you cannot build up such a system and that was the spirit of response to do this in the spirit so it's not out of the question it is possible that if you feel trust you will provide russians will the information sure here ok russian deputy foreign minister said i quote he was commenting on nato is out of our list to create a joint missile defense with russia quote so countries are the alliance say they cannot entrust their security to russia since the russian federation is not part of

the collective system or defense we consider this logic old fashioned says russian deputy defense minister do you agree that the relations between the two blocs russia or russia on the one side in nato are really a bit old fashioned. async we should not think in blocks in blocks i think when i was there was no notorious lot of block nato is a is a political as a political military institution an organization we all know the block we are open for all who cooperate with us even for russia i remember and i tell the o. and you all know that we have a russia nato council and on our parliamentary level we have a nato russia parliamentary committee and this is a form of twenty nine we speak on the same level we have a very open dialogue can very open discussion our principle is transparency was

speak about everything and i think that is the spirit in which what we must solve this problem and creates this very important system of missile defense that is to the benefit of us all says carl lambert's president of the late probably the vitreous center spotlight will be back shortly after the great south stay we are to continue this interview in a minute to. wealthy british style. expert on the.

market why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy with my next concert the no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into kinds a report on our. more news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images correlate and seeing from the streets and canada. chunk operations are ok. welcome back to spotlight i'm al green of in just

a reminder that my guest in the studio today is carl lammers president of the nato parliamentary assembly and mr lammers as well according to what you say according to your trial and according that you sitting here in front of me the relations between loads and russia are really better than they used to be more openness more trust somewhat but for the last couple of years the russian representative today the best of russia mr dmitry rogozin who is a real hawk has always been a hawk and he still is a hawk so my question to you why did it take a hawk in brussels to start improving its i know lot about this adorable and very well he's an honest guy and i say he's a nice guy but he is i don't see in those very well he is a hard good as you're actually i mean i don't see very well what's going on in brussels here finds a very open atmosphere and i think he will agree to that what i say and let us be. he engaged together in this system that is work on the basis of transparency let us

work based on trust and confidence and i think we are going forward to a peaceful future let's hope so let's talk about international relations the middle east some leaders of the syrian opposition they they they've asked later after they saw what happened in libya they're asking nato to to to use the same scenario in their country do you think this may happen no i'm quite sure that will not happen that is a totally different situation in syria than in libya there is no you on mandate there is no and so that was very important for the libya operation of nato. no request from arab league and i think there is no planning in nato doing the same or something like this in syria a clear answer and a clear response from me so so so this is now so you're giving to the russians to

we are so sure that you're positive i'll give that almost the same answer as with all of this a lot of. well well well this is not very common for diplomats and i don't know diplomats are photos of. their russian observers russian newspaper russian experts they are see that taking sides in one side in the libyan conflict the side of libyan rebels in their war against gadhafi later has transparency the u.n. resolution which sanctioned only protection of civilians on the other hand nato says no we were we were trying to protect civilians whenever do you have examples when the nato forces actually protected civilians from the oppositions for example during the siege of our series. the nato operation unified protector your unmandated operation of nato and. there was a clear intention to protect people against military attacks of god duffy and

gadhafi troops to prevent people from this to prevent and to avoid civilian casualties and they're seeing nato was very successful doing this i was saying there was a clear mandate and we operated in the framework of this mandate so this was a very good operation and connects to a very good success that libya is free no and that is a good message for the people there now they have the opportunity to build up new structures and i hope democratic structures rule of law democracy freedom of speech of religion of everything i think that is sport we intended to do and therefore i fully agree to that what nato made a you said you're a politician and you are not american which makes it easier for me to talk to you because americans there are sure that there is only one type of democracy american

democracy europeans know there may be variations in democracy itself a question about libya. the cool lynching of to death the mass graves the barbaric action that we started television mean you both be sorry are you sure that the regime that will be replacing qaddafi's regime will be a democracy are you sure you will find in for the real cause. i hope that people all people especially the young people use know the new situation and the new opportunity to build up a new structure and they are community in their country to. be open for better perspectives of their life i just came back from tunisia. you see young people open and and very. determined to go this way to freedom to peace and to a better future with good education. economic progress i think

that we are asked. to help them if we are requested it is their revolution it is their decision how to go to the future but it is up to us and i speak now for the parliamentary assembly of data we are parliamentarians to assist them if we are requested in tunisia we were requested and they're asked for help for assistance so we wait now when the first election that took place they voted for a constituent assembly we will wait in egypt and then i will go to to cairo and after that's to libya and we will ask people what do you expect from us they are all full of expectations for their future i'm certain that we can assist them what do you mean when we say we will ask people you like he deal with you here you put your blue. glasses sunglasses you go into the street and you are people are now

we have no sunglasses you have open iris and we will speak to maybe in the a parliamentarian if they are elected you speak to young terrorism exactly people you know a little bit politicians there's even one turns up people. represented to the u.s. so they're politicians we speak with young people which we agree students we speak with journalists respect with we have people from the community or from the science from from all aspects and i think we are stem what can we do we will not give them our model of democracy we asked what we can do or how we can have power we can assist them and if we are requested we can assist as we have parliamentarians from the eastern little form of europe they made the experience of transformation from one the model of society into another and so if we are requested we will help and we will assist as far as i know germany was really supportive of the libyan

operation including inside the bundestag of which you once were remember how would you explain that is it because they because germans. i generally sick and tired of wars i think that germany made a clear decision now to. enhance our efforts to build up new structures in the fost phase now of libya we will assist people there and they are saying we will concentrate to the face now or after the military operation has finished after the military operation is finished do you have fears not only used by the parliamentarians the politicians within the eight do you have fears that sort of an al qaida aryan to structures may come to power or like all like at and t. could a few warlords are going to start do with clashing with each other i cannot exclude this so we have to be very cautious but i know that people are full of expectations for free future future and freedom and i seemed the best what we can do is now

to go they are to be engaged to a very early stage of development and to do our very best that these countries develop in a free future the new york times pointed out that i quote shortages in the european el ides intelligence gathering year craft aerial refueling tankers and precision guided the kits for bombs proved the united states remains the backbone of any nato offensive and quelled would you agree that the libyan operation has exposed the over dependence of nato on u.s. military force. i think we have to think for lessons who learns what our sample lesson there's a lesson and we speak about the lessons we speak about how to enhance capabilities in the whole framework of nato what we can do more you know we are all under the

pressure of the economic crisis all over the walls all the countries. fact it and so i think i fully agree to the policy of smart defense of secretary general rasmussen how to reduce cost without losing the power to fight for security and to enable us to make such important military operations so that the money in this defense yes that means to bundle our efforts to reduce costs to pooling and sharing and to develop. special capabilities for one country and the us us and by leading this together i think we have a good chance to reach our aim so common european defense is possible is a concept that you considering are you saying that it is. an intention to develop a european. capability in the defense issue as part of of nato

capability. a libya also proved that i was a quote some of the observers that the leaders of some medium sized powers can be overthrown from a distance without putting boots on the ground by using weapons fired from sea and from air like a remote controlled war right this isn't it create a favorable environment for selling another war to another country that wants democracy. no i don't think so you know things are so so so so you so you think that that learning lessons from for what happened in libya would be rather positive a positive process then then a dangerous negative process yes lessons learned means what is the experience from leaving earth and what should we do especially under the aspect of pooling and sharing to develop their common capabilities to be able to master

the challenges of the future while you were here in moscow you of course heard firsthand the russian response to the libyan operation and maybe not always very diplomatic do you think that after that in the present position the present state of mind russia would vote for a similar resolution on syria i don't think so. another lesson learned. and to have but to bury snow is a situation that's a sort of vote for such a resolution that is not plans and therefore i think there is no situation that russia must sing of such a result thank you thank you very much for being with us and being so frank and just a reminder that my guest today was karl lamb the president of the nato parliamentary assembly and the third pullout from all of us here spotlighted will be back with more than a comment arc of what's going on in the world until then tail r.t.

and take care thank you thank you. bringing you the latest in science and technology from the ground. we've got the future covered.

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