mr. welcome back to the big picture i'm starvin coming up in this half hour the patriots in manhattan zuccotti park are determined to bring their message straight to the lawmakers in washington d.c. who are on a crusade of their own and time is running out for both sides and some students think that the right says atheists are being violated by religious colleges that their belief system really pose

a threat to the uniformity of faith on campus. with the gang of twelve deadline looming in washington d.c. occupy wall street is taking their message on the road a group of patriots have been camped out manhattan's zuccotti park in part of the big apple today to begin a two hundred forty mile march to the nation's capital hoping to arrive in russian in d.c. by november twenty third the deadline for the gang of twelve super committee says washington d.c. and wall street have forged in on a holy alliance or at least ions it also it only seems appropriate for occupy d.c. and occupy wall street to do the same that's not on any unfortunately it's unlikely that the gang of twelve is listening to the ninety nine percent will his calls to address massive wealth inequality in america but that message is resonating with the american people cover your ears joe the plumber most americans want

redistribution of wealth with the wealth gap between the rich and poor in america larger than it's historically ever been a majority of americans want the federal government to step up and dress according to a new washington post a.b.c. news poll sixty one percent of americans want washington to quote pursue policies that try to end quote reduce income inequality at. tax the rich so i guess we're all democratic socialists now joining me for more on this is a real smart national director of the democratic socialists of america welcome thank you for having me thanks for joining us you know for people who don't know what a democratic socialist is i often refer to myself as one but then i have to explain your answer but i'm not part of i'm not a member of a part of your party or anything but. what is it of yours but first let me explain that d.s.a. is the largest socialist organization in the united states but we're not a political party and we are part of the socialist international but we believe

that it's more important to organize people at the grassroots level and provide an alternative narrative to the ultra right and then to run candidates for office so that we do engage in electoral politics so democratic socialism what is it it's essential to the idea that our political system is not democratic enough and our economy certainly is not democratic so we believe that we need to democratize the economy and frankly that means everything from making it easier to form unions and getting more people ways and even larger economic decisions i mean if you look at what happened a few years ago on wall street there was a few people that were scurrying the rest of us and then they turned around to the government and said we've been gambling with the public's money and now the economy is about to crash so you better bail us out or the economy is going to crash and they essentially force the public to bear the brunt of their mistakes i once they start making money you know the old you know socialism has had many definitions.

and the definition the core of marx definition is basically the state owns everything but means of production and supply that's not at all what you're talking what you're talking about is something that is like the system in norway or familiar to mark or sweeteners or france and germany for that matter are democratic socialist nations so what is it or why is it that these nations that are democratic socialist call themselves that you know everybody understands that they have higher health care results they have lower wealth inequality they have fewer social ills. they're all around happier why is it that americans don't get this. well you know in this country we have a history of the idea of the rugged individual so americans are very tied to the idea of individual rights and democracy and the good thing about democratic socialism is we actually believe that that's very important but if you look at

american history the government was always there supporting the corporations and making money and corporate welfare was happening all the time so we need to what's so exciting about occupy wall street is it's drawing attention to that fact and it's really saying that you know ordinary people having the kind of things that allow them to take part in our society you know having decent jobs and enough leisure time and enough access to higher education they can truly and meaningfully participate is important and i think that is very patriotic that we need to democratize our economy and we need to provide an opportunity for ordinary people to participate even more because the democratic socials of america. do you have a position for example things that cooperate we support them we think that's definitely a step in the right direction as as an adjunct to traditional capitalism or as an alternative or both i would say both because if you think about it there are we think of ourselves as long distance runners towards

a more just future so we are not trying to advocate some violent revolution we want to put more power into people's hands in the here and now but we see cooperatives as one way to do that and ultimately you know the bigger picture we see a place and a role for the state but the problem is it needs to be democratically controlled and right now it's not really exactly this is this is it's amazing how jeffersonian it is actually read his correspondence with madison in seventy eight when the constitution was being put together and he was saying that the majority delegation would withhold their ratification if they didn't have specifically. one of the members of the constitution saying that there should not be monopolies and. you know corporate monopolies. so right now there's a labor department came out with a report that shows that there are four people looking for every open job right now and seriously what would democratic socialist how would you respond well we would

respond that that's a natural result of a capitalist system because if you look at capitalism it's always you can lose it for the crime rate completely unregulated cutthroat capitalism so what's going on is every corporation is in search for profit and the way they do that is they lay off workers they institute you know machines they you know people work harder for less pay and when there's a recession with such high employment levels it's easier to get more out of people so we're not surprised by this it is absolutely inevitable result of and and that's what makes the right wing's arguments that poor people are lazy and that people who are without jobs are lazy it just makes it so clear that it is a cover for them to pursue their agenda of cutting the kinds of public programs that we support social security medicare medicaid headstart home heating oil assistance all of the idea that you know people are lazy and it's their fault that they're poor is just a way for them to pursue their agenda which is to privatized programs and provide

opportunities for them to make more profit and and yet this is you know the core of the republican party you have you know ron paul you know look the guy in the streets if he didn't have the wisdom of the wealthy have health insurance or mccain if you're unemployed blowing yourself i just heard i read a story written by barbara ehrenreich is actually an honorary chair of g.s.a. and she said that she's been reading about communities that are actually pushing for laws to limit the number of meals that churches can feed to the homeless i mean what kind of what kind of person does it take and what kind of society is that when that kind of thing is going on when people are dying. because of poverty it's you know it's the right wing and the neo liberal liberal agenda is reaching its logical conclusion and it's not a pretty sight and i call it the cancer stage of capitalism and and for the record new liberalism is not liberals as americans understand them it's a european term that he would refer to as reaganomics or answer the patcher nomics

conservative you're going to pause and maria keep up the great work thank you so much for dropping by thanks for the education. for more signs that occupy wall street is having a huge effect on our economy last week's bank transfer day was a success according to numbers from the credit union national association over forty thousand americans move their money from big banks on wall street to local credit unions on main street remember credit unions garnered eighty million dollars in new savings in just one day back that money out of the four point five billion in new savings and six hundred fifty thousand new customers that have flocked to credit unions over the last five weeks since occupy wall street started and there's clearly huge movement afoot in america to make big banks pay for the mess they caused if the justice department would put bankers in jail people who put patients out of business and maybe voted into office a few more democratic socialists to. just for.

the good the bad of the very logically ugly good. the federal communications commission f.c.c. announced a new program today to get low income americans a cross the nation wired for the internet working with internet service providers and computer manufacturers if c.c. will offer roughly twenty five million poor families and now a month broadband services and refurbished one hundred fifty dollars computers f.c.c. commissioner julius genachowski warns the cost of not a doctor in broadband cost of exclusion. and getting into days world being able to have access to the internet is just as much a of a right as access to free public education and yes you see realizes this could work but bad thought so called news this morning on g.o.p. t.v. talking heads of parchin friends also known as the war on christmas hotline

promoted a story about president obama imposing a fifteen cent tax on christmas tree. just in time for the holidays the obama administration adding a christmas tree tax well the government green cine picking fence out of your pocket potentially on the sale of all fresh christmas trees. president obama the secret muslim hates christmas and christmas trees actually it's not true the christmas tree farmers themselves have been pushing for such a tax for two years so they could launch an ad campaign they actually started back in the bush administration so they can launch an ad campaign to get people to buy more real christmas trees if those plastic things as the national christmas tree association spokesman rick dumby said it has absolutely nothing to do with obama it is not a tax i'm slowly but surely narrowing down. who the culprits are who put out that sinister little statement for whatever reasons there were here's a hint watch g.o.p.

t.v. and a very very ugly bill bryant last night republican phil bryant won the election in mississippi to be the state's next governor unfortunately according to brian c. one two yesterday while stumping in support of initiative twenty six better known as the fetal personhood amendment brian said this is a battle of good and evil of biblical proportions and that if the person who told them it was defeated then satan wins his words and as we know today boaters rejected the amount thus apparently see a victory for satan not sure how satan is going to celebrate his victory maybe by giving the governor's mansion in mississippi to republicans either way phil bryant comparing preserving a woman's right to have some control over her body to see who's winning is very serious. coming up on the big picture one republican congressman is taking the art of denial to an entirely new level i'll try to set the record straight next to it

it. drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decisions to break through get through it and it may who can you trust no one who is you know view with a global missionary see where we had a state controlled capitalism is called sasha's when nobody dares to ask we do you r t question more.

so what royds to atheist students have to form organizations on private religious college campuses that's a question the students at the university of dayton at notre dame and a baylor university are dealing with as they try to form student groups based around atheism so far all three universities have rejected applications to form atheist agnostic or humanistic organizations on campus with the university of dayton arguing that non-believing groups go against the mission of the school at school to quote educate for formation in faith and quote what's more important preserving uniformity of faith on campus or allowing new ideas to educate students on campus here offer his take on this is just a gallop a direct communications director with the secular student alliance jesse welcome

thanks for having me on really appreciate it thank thank you jesse and i hope i don't get it notre dame dayton they allow jews jews they allow muslims to get together discuss their disagreements their methods discuss metaphysics even practice their religion in these groups why would they allow you guys to do the same. you know it's really strange a lot of these schools claim support the kind of thing that the secular student group supports of discussion open inclusiveness for all the students but then when an atheist group the students it's just a little too far outside the mainstream and that's one of things that we're pushing back against it's really important that they understand who we are and what we're doing we're not out to promote crime in sin i think it's a lot of misunderstanding and a lot of stigma against non-beliefs don't any of these colleges get federal money i mean isn't there and wouldn't that disqualify them from practicing religious bigotry against your religion your belief system or belief system. i think they are

there as private institutions they are allowed to discriminate as much as they want but having the legal right doesn't make it right and so as a supporter of separation of church and state we support their right to make these decisions but then it becomes an issue for society to decide and there's a great discussion going on at the university of dayton like you said the community is actually very upset with the administration for denying the specular student group the student papers publishing letters to the editor after a letter to the editor of people upset with the decision from students to alumni to even current professors voicing their disapproval i'm wondering if any of the religious groups for example the unitarian universalists who don't proclaim a deity have weighed in on this or if they would be allowed to have a group in their official church even though by the standards i suppose of certainly the catholics in the case of notre dame they wouldn't consider them christian what's that any support anywhere. you know we have we are frequently

working with allies in liberal universities and liberal religious is institutions as well as you know we have supporting groups like the southern baptist committee that the drug after committee i'm sorry to really explore separation of church and state and these issues shouldn't go along party lines or anything like that it should just be a matter of providing the same support for all the students not discriminating and encouraging open discussion of these topics yeah why not why not just pitch it to them hey you know we have a belief system our belief system is we're not sure about that god we're not sure about any gods but it's our belief system and that applies it is a religion and in fact some of us are even evangelical we're all trying to spread it and you know this call is a religion and give us our damn club well we don't consider ourselves religious and isn't usually considered a religion but it has come up when the schools try to send a student group to the campus ministry for approval it's much more appropriate to

send the student groups to say the glossy departments something like that because it's more about discussing these things and promoting a safe community for speed issues to be discussed and for non religious students to meet not guilty but you're not if i if i may. you know if if if you're going to go to the philosophy department or the political science department you're getting together to discuss whether or not. you know particular political party should be elected or something like that as in the case of the democratic or republican run you're getting together discuss existential issues you know the presence or lack of presence of a deity the presence or lack of presence of a point of creation how did it all come about how did it not come about how do people interact with the belief systems highway sure that that sounds to me like a religion i think you've got a strong pitch here. also a lot of the student groups go beyond simply the distance or nonexistence of god

they discuss as you said you know ethics more ality what it means to be a good person and even to those in the last only parts of religion. possibly point to philosophy as well but for some student groups they do ask to be part of the religious groups i know at stanford the secular student alliance group was required to be listed as part of the religious institutions but they required today they made sure they had a signing statement describing quite what they meant by that to make it clear they did not consider atheism to be a religion just discussing the philosophical religion will suffer cold views that religion usually tries to address i suppose by some of these definitions you can say that the tea party is a religion of the. one time or says well. so. where you're going from here. but we're trying to put social pressure on a lot of the schools at katyn community is obviously behind the student group and trying to show more and more universities that it's a good move that as the youth age range becomes less and less religious it's

a big trends that the eighteen to twenty five age range is less likely to be affiliated with religion twenty two percent of that age range is not believe with any religion and as this happens but let me get my meter up do you mean by any organized religion as opposed to i mean. my understanding is that the studies show that the number of people who define themselves as quote spiritual or as having some sort of a belief system even if it's an agnostic system. thomas jefferson's deism for example those numbers have been relatively constant for hundreds of years with periodic exception. polling numbers are difficult if you include deism which is not a be a state religion they're extremely welcome and. frequent christians in secular student groups discussing what it means without a god taking part in the country beyond belief and not where do we go from here and that's what the groups are doing discussing what it means how we should run society

without believing in it he is the guy maybe you go that you tell yourself jeffersonian deists may his idea was someone a started on a person and yeah ok create jesse i wish there were of us thank you thank you so much for joining us thank you. want to see you congressman completely freaked out there well it's not the private marketplace that created this mess but created this mess government which has demanded for years everybody you know lean in don't believe in the marketplace for the mess we're in right now i'm tired of hearing that rap. place and you know what this pisses me off too many people don't listen learn to

not write the basic premise try to say you want more or more regulation that's what you got drugs you lot more regulation he said what you want do you want the outbreak is that what you want. it so. we can. go on so why for me one for me when i see what. we're going to ask you to lead. you to this. are you listening i was tea party congressman from illinois joe walsh also known as the deadbeat dad congressman who always more than one hundred thousand dollars in child support and earns far more than that every year. still in debt and he was responding to a constituent who tried to pin the blame for the financial meltdown in two thousand and eight at the feet of wall street and besides going completely unhinged which he

claimed today was the result of not eating enough before the meeting joe walsh was completely wrong joe walsh was telling i should say screen the same old why and i use that word very carefully at the banks toure's their bar off republican members of congress and the pundits on g.o.p. t.v. also knows fox news i've been telling for years now and that law i is that wall street was responsible for the economic crash that somehow our government and too much regulation was responsible for the wall street crash and the poor little wall street they're just a victim of moose government policy well actually let the jokes planted himself. what created this mess is sure government which is still good for eight years to everybody in the home and we've made the easiest possible

for people to be at home marketplace does. nothing to us. so walsh isn't alone in blaming the government here's what new york mayor michael bloomberg said a billionaire in his own right by the way a few weeks back. nothing very very very explain something. more serious to grow your people who are upon us very much. for you to make it through. this once the first do everybody and. so it was our government in the form of fannie mae and freddie mac. that caused this mess seems like a decent argument except for the fact that no it has no grounding in reality whatsoever government agencies did not push people into loans they couldn't afford banks toure's did bankers who got nice fat bonus checks when they swindled more and more people into adjustable rate mortgages instead of safe fixed rate mortgages

gangsters who didn't give a damn if the mortgages they were handing out were going to explode because they knew they were going to turn around and sell that junk mortgage off to some poor schmuck investor anyway thanks to his who are incentivized to take enormous risks because their bonuses only depended on short term performance so they all figured they'd be out of the game sipping the margarita's in aruba before the whole system caught fire so it wasn't fannie and it wasn't freddie and most of the regulators right most of the democrats in congress strangling the banks with new laws and burdensome regulations right joe you want to with more and more government governments go through this problem are you don't you got the answer yes not right basically right now is everybody saying you want more or more regulation that's what you've got judge you lot more regulation is what you want you want outbreak is

that what you want. actually that is what i want that's what most economists one more regulation of the banks regulations like glass steagall asked by franklin roosevelt after the last great economic crisis. plus legal that kept commercial banks and investment banks separate from each other and prevented a major market crash for more than fifty years for the first time in this nation's history we went that long without a crash it wasn't regulation because there's no us that's a lie it was deregulation it was repealing things like glass steagall and nine hundred ninety eight it was deregulating derivative markets to allow banks like goldman sachs to manipulate the prices of everything from food to oil to real estate it was deregulating reserve requirements passing the bear stearns exemption and during the bush administration when letting five major banks go beyond the old rule of only being able to lend out twelve bucks for every one dollar in savings

instead letting banks lend to twenty thirty even forty bucks for everyone every one dollar that they had and then because there were no glass steagall regulations anymore they lent it to themselves and their own gambling divisions and they gambled with it in the derivatives market which is why bear stearns through whose name this exemption was crafted that sold for pennies on the dollar and their bets went bad and they couldn't cover the forty to one margin calls the idea that overregulation caused this mess is so far from reality that even bertha should be laughing at the idea deregulation letting the banks tears run wild let in a so-called free market be free that's what caused this mess and now these free market hucksters have created this big fat lie to cover it up and joe walsh is one of those liars whether he wants to hear it or not. why for why for one i think.

you are going to ask. you this maybe you all should spend a little more time listening listening to the people who have actually studied the meltdown instead of listening to his campaign contributors on wall street. we'll give him wide street. as the big picture for tonight for more information on the stories we covered visit our website to tom hartman dot com free speech dot org and archie dot com also check out our two you tube channels there are links to thom hartmann dot com and our show is also available as a free video podcast on i tunes and we have a free tom hartman i phone an i pad app over the after he said his feedback on twitter it's all mothers who are on facebook autonomy's for problems that are blogs message boards on it like a telephone. and don't forget it all begins with you mark receive begins with you get out there get active occupy something tag your it will see them on.

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