over the. next. few days ago. china's position. of political and economic woes in the west. wealthy british scientists are. sometimes spies for. markets so why not. find out what's really happening to the global

economy comes a report on r.t. . became the story. of the such. a low in welcome across town timekeeper little china's maneuvering power china's fortunes faring during the global financial crisis the eurozone fiasco political uncertainty in the u.s. and the arab spring is china and the gainer is the world undergoes massive economic and geopolitical ships and as the world changes will china take on a greater leadership role. to keep the story. across not china's growing influence i'm joined by greg audrey in irvine he's an entrepreneur and co-author of death by china in miami we have already changed cars he used a ford motor company chair in global business management at ohio state university

and in beijing we cross to doris nesbitt she's the director of the nesbitt china institute all right folks you have difference of points of view on this and i want you to show my viewers ok but first marcia people say china is set to save the world well i don't know about that but there is little doubt that over the last decade asia and china specifically has been steadily moving to the fore of the global economy and in the wake of the two thousand and eight credit crunch would shatter the western financial crisis and on and triggered europe's own sovereign debt crisis experts say china's role in power in global affairs is more palpable than ever growing economic might is reflected in the. some talk of the passive aid to contribute to the euro zone's bailout fund the decision has now been finalized the european leaders and the i.m.f. have all welcomed the prospect of an investment which could range the truth fifty and a hundred billion dollars. i believe the resolution for european debt is very confused ability to finance trade and economy. if china does inject cash

into the euro zone it would mark an unprecedented shift in global power dynamics and make china i financial power on par with the u.s. but this would be the first time that the two countries jousted for a while now the u.s. has laid claims that china is under valuing its currency they continue to try to game the system to their advantage and our just damage so i think it's appropriate and fitting in a timely for us to be standing up and saying you know this is this is not acceptable ultimately however saving the eurozone and the u.s. is in china's own economic interests meanwhile economists are already warning of contagion threat if the crisis unravels and some have pointed to the country's slow growth as a sign of a spillover effect concerns that beijing has dismissed. indeed if you intend on our own valuation is that in the monetarist who owns it is safe to say that the national economy is generally on the right track and is benefiting from our macro

control policies on the domestic front china's been further tightening the screws on internet freedom whether it's a sign of its internal vulnerability in the world by popular uprisings is unclear but a three day media conference last week and with a whole slew of measures aimed at stopping what the chinese call the spread of harmful information but there is specter it seems like trying it's going to go its way well let's talk about which way it's going to go aaron oden in miami if i go to you first here i mean what's most topical right now is well whether the chinese will bail out the europeans be well to europe euro zone or if they do what would they get out of it well first of all i think. you know the rise of china has been. you know unfolding fairly fairly quickly. in my book the chinese century you know about six seven years ago i you know i predicted that china would become with largest economy in twenty twenty five and we are made way through that through that process so this is not entirely unpredictable i mean you know we have both the

united states and europe that are really admired in mountain of that there are only two countries out there that have the resources to help them out one is japan which is also somewhat reluctant global player with a lot of the rest technicians to solve a and then of course china you know your. moment of trillions of reserves were. sinking deeper into that hole this was i think you know quite predictable ok great if i can go to you in irvine i mean the chinese have been very hesitant because they see that the europeans just can't get their house in order we've created such a. mess of their economies with this debt crisis here why would the chinese want to get in there and it will be see the euro feel half year from now. you know first of all we've got to be clear when the chinese loan money to america or to europe it's not because they like them it's merely to gain political advantage you know for

sure economic exploitation like every other country there's more here it is and different than other countries do i mean every country goes after self interest right and geopolitical interest as well. is nowhere near is cutting them strategic is china does and we've got to be clear that finding our moral hazard in keeping us behaving badly either in europe or the united states is not in china's long term best interest cyber it's. china i want to see the west continue to harm itself if you're if you want to jump in there go right ahead. yes i was just going to say who sets the measure i mean who decides what's good and bad behavior you know i think we're at a point where the west has to think about who is science what's what and are we really in the position given all the problems we have to just talk talk down to china and say what we've decided scored and what we think is good and what you

would do is i think that the approach works much more be what can we do to kiev that the software problems ok greg you want to reply to that do you think that the who decides to measure very good question here well you know the. moral equivalency arguments really interesting until you come to face somebody who is truly what we went through this whole same argument in the 1930's don't criticize the germans a lot of american companies went over there set up business and said it's not our business if you're rich when you quit you can create or if you're equating china of today to nazi germany of the one nine hundred thirty s. . absolutely although i think you know in china somewhere worse as far as well i'm a scale and the level of censorship that's happening internally but clearly the repression they put on there right now it's honestly the rest of the world put together are you saying i object absolute objective moral values and it's going to go ahead. no no i mean mentally object i mean. you know

equate the two together you know and i said germany is on a completely different level i mean you know a country that has been probably the worst atrocities that we have witnessed in human civilization so with all respect i mean i would not put china out there which i ask others to see in history and i think you can result in any other totalitarian regime in history doris you want to recall i did not hear a lot about it and you are scared hasn't happened so no to me. you know you open your book on his talk we were squatting. mach two can one square that was in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine i don't know when you have been to china for the last time and i don't know what how many chinese weeks ago you have been talking you know we have we you crowded place expression are staring us in mainland china and not and not oh well. you know we are in

china right now and we have been talking last week in what people often do where they really try and work on been here on the integration to get people into an economic growth the rural population. they run people are growing with each other via internet it's not that there is no communication. internet certainly can be called a second party in china and it's certainly certain things are regulated flats without doubt but china is in the process of establishing which own way of running the country will take a great it's an extreme point i mean if you're china china is a very good energy if i need you here for a commuter jet here i mean in the west china is criticized because it is not in line with the washington consensus if i can use that term here i mean china is a rising power the west is enduring steadily this little silly big. lighning ok i

mean so it really is the west has to adjust itself to a rising china and india with its own relative decline would you agree with that the same argument was made about the declining british empire at the beginning of the twentieth century and how the new way it was the soviet union and the fascist states in europe. so countries that are willing to exploit their people to any level are always able to achieve quick turnaround so we saw that really we saw that in germany beginning of the soviet union it's not sustainable but that's how they view i really i mean i've seen the people standing behind the rear of an ox with a wooden plow while the party members in shanghai in the business people in shanghai in moscow party like there's no tomorrow i've seen little children who are going to die because of lack of a five thousand dollars surgery because their health care system is an absolute zero and if you want to jump in there go ahead in miami yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean i mean first first of all again again and i want to say in a very very clear clear fashion yeah these no question that you know china is ease

of bed regime as far as as moralities is close. to put it at the same lab as a regime that has old guys missed murders of people you know because of their you know religion or otherwise you know inclination or you know they've all gone the wrong having said that having said that you called him. in jail or disappeared and finish up in miami go ahead yeah i don't think you can equate it because to train i'm very sorry i think you're entirely wrong but let me finish my point having said that these no question that china is going to extract a heavy price for any but the. bail out my own view is they're going to do it in a more this way but there will be a lot of strings attached of course i do not buy the voices coming out of

the e.u. way and they did say they would not be any strings attached that would be a lot of string attached but again he's in the the in china's interest their main markets the u.s. remain able to buy you know chinese products i don't think it is. question about that ok greg i want to ask you a question i mean what china has benefited so much from the current economic order in the world right now i mean they're going to still continue to work as a partner is doris try to point out you want to demonize them into an enemy but it's in their own interest to keep the order going the way it is. exactly the way that it's an interested drug dealer housing his customers being able to continue to buy products that are doing the back of our car sustaining europe's bad behavior sustaining america's bad behaviors that are is not a on this one we're going to a short break and we've got a lot more to talk about theory and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on china stay with the arctic.

can. you come. in canada and the u.s. so that it is legal for you to use a bubble bath and your baby it contains a known carcinogen something that causes cancer is most of this trying to write another book in the present day on the console and i think most of it and most of the guys they've known about the plates it's a conflict of interest today an average cancer drug prescription costs nearly one thousand six hundred dollars a month oh my god i'm a nobody with cancer from my side therefore i protect salt because ninety to ninety five percent of cancers hurt people with the family history of cancer the pharmaceutical industry spends about fourteen percent of their budget on research

and development and about thirty one percent for marketing and ministration. in fact there are more pharmaceutical industry lobbyists in washington d.c. than members of congress. to. close a husband to the preacher for technological breakthroughs say humanoids. heart she goes to the sea. world trainer ways to check to make sure. lead where farming pioneers place local cuisine to the highest pitch. and where future developments depends on the way. russia's black sea coast should close up on hard. to.

welcome back across all computer lead up to mind you were discussing china's increasing power. play. can. lead. ok doris i know you want to jump in right here out and you want to react to what greg said right before the break so go right ahead. yeah i think we have one common ground and that is that china has pointed out millions hundreds of millions of people out of their arch pollicie to a relatively modest relf. you know the finishing of human rights includes in china that people have something to eat that people have a hope that people have a future and in catching china which is

a very emotional judgment as we can see when we are here when we listen to what we have to say and you have to consider reaction came from where it started and if you look around china we're not only in cities like beijing or shanghai we are on the countryside and if you see the children of parents who can not read i'm not all having the ability and the the offer to visit the school or to have instant learning so that all through a life has increased and improved dramatically you know you cannot always see look at china and say ok you cannot always draw the government here you cannot almost all the government but life does not only content in overthrowing brother man's life it is that you can fulfill your dreams that you can create a trough that you can well create a family all of this is very much i mean or in the needs of the chinese people and

they have more and more of it. yeah ok i get that but i don't want to hear the story that china has communist government has raised two hundred million people out of poverty they didn't raise anybody out of poverty hard working intelligent chinese people raise their selves out of poverty where the boot lifted just a little bit and cheering for the chinese government in this way is like. the last horse in the kentucky derby japan korea taiwan singapore thailand all these are very asian nations. pulled themselves up way before chided the only thing the chinese government was hold its people back longer so that they could be the very last people to achieve that sort of lifestyle it's a tragedy it isn't true i didn't think if i don't you have to find out of miami here and he i think most reason people would say the chinese have done a pretty good job with the economic policy at least they're not in my mired in debt like their competitors in the european union the united states i mean they've certainly done some some very positive things now you could say also with their

foreign economic policy they're just only interest in self interest they don't have all the baggage that the west has about humanitarian interventions and in all these other things mean the chinese should go on their own way i mean there's something to be said about that right right i mean. you have your chance is going to miami greg greg bennett painter i hope you will be brought to the hague that has nothing to do with it i mean we're told by china. you know the issue is always more complex than the excuse me the picture is always more complex than a one sided argument here on on both sides yes does the cheney's leadership have considerable achievement i don't think there's any question about it when you're talking about you know literacy and the like is there a heavy very heavy price being paid by individuals because

of the policies of you know modernization and economic growth for us no question about it i mean i can give you a very specific example about the rate of you know childhood cancer each child and things that are not being taken care of and so forth there is no question about that as well the reality is is always much more complex than it seems. you are you want to see a democracy in china eventually. of course yes. can it have been it once we leave hope and it was i am not so sure i want to remind everyone did we the exception of taiwan there was really no precedent of. a democratic chinese society u.k. intimating that such a tiny one of all that i heard it eventually was ok great i mean it was me why should we assume if i go back to greg here in irvine and why should be see me as

a china were to go down the world the path of democratization as we all would understand it why would it have to be a western liberal model can't they have a model that is more representative of their society and values go ahead. i didn't say that i just say we need a model that doesn't involve killing a lot of people locking them up in jails because of their religious beliefs and then intentionally exploiting the weaknesses of the western governments in order to bring them down faster my concern which are his internal behavior in this conversation is mostly to say to you i have to if they treat their own people this way why would you expect them to treat you fairly and in economic or business contractual relationship and they develop their systemic cheaters and liars ok joris is getting very steamed critique of china there how do you react to that i know we lost you for a second so. we respond to what you did here ok well you know i think that one can prove anything and everything if you look at

a certain point if you choose certain points looking at the us the picture can be very grim why it can be very bright so there can be things said about china which are not right and there are things that are very good but consider one thing china is only thirty years. into reform and opening up where was the us thirty years after the constitution was written where was the us only more than a walking there's a row when the blacks were still owe come on do you know jim if john was here he could tell you first have firsthand how the riots were against the pats how he was taking share in sit ins because the black students go to a restaurant so you know the point is we are not i am not here to defend the government and i want to say what we'll serve and what we observe is that china is on the path and it has done

a very good job it has its flaws there are lots of things where it has to improve including the environment corruption the freedom of speech concerning the government of course nobody would deny that but. you cannot only look at one side and you can take everything that's possible if you do that with us or with your although you're going to have it so there as well greg you want to refinance because i'd like to talk is what i'd also like to talk about chuck in china taking more responsibility on the global stage because it is the second largest economy in the world and will surpass the united states soon but it's still not flexing its diplomatic and political responsibilities i would say commensurate with the size when you think about that yeah well let me just first of all say the key to being able to improve yourself over time is freedom of speech criticism and so yes the u.s. is committed some terrible sounds at home and around the world but the thing that's important is that we have made it we publicly flogged ourselves for it and we try

to improve the chinese government's incapable of doing that every guarding their position around the world they are very cautious and i think the key thing everybody needs to understand is that in china. politics lead to economics as opposed to in europe in united states where the goal of politics is trying to achieve a better economic state for the people in china the goal of economics is to keep the chinese communist party in power and that's why they allow improvement because they care about those kids out in you know on products it's only because they want the boys in beijing to stay in power ok how do you think that it's really very stylish it's not really really it's not a chinese self interest it's the self interest of the communist party this is what we just heard. none of this once i'm sure all over the. system had to leave to a different question here first of all eat so happens that in the eighty's the interest of the communist regime to provide economic prosperity i don't think there was any question about it it happens to be good for the country i mean to

a great extent so the fact that these two objectives are consistent you know is something that we should do we should keep in mind of course the regime would like to stay in power of course it's a regime for which you cannot mix prosperity is even more important than for any other regime nevertheless it is something that it is creates a lot of good for the chinese people as well so that we need to keep in mind going back to your earlier question yes china is a reluctant player on the global scene and mongo other reasons because you to the relatively new player on global scene and they're all bit from really play a remains to be seen what we've heard so far with china ease against the so-called us egg of money what we have all deserve so far is that china is unfortunately willing to engage in a lot of bad regime and they're each should not engage but all in all it's still

a fairly reluctant player and may i say that one reason why china he's hesitant about providing more soap. the european union is really put pen child back home when he will are increasingly concerned that you know chinese resources will go down. sinking a hole and that money will never be seen again ok door saying go to you there's another historical precedent out there was an emerging power that the international community the international architecture didn't accept very well and that was germany at the end of the one thousand committing twentieth century and you see that we've learned any lessons there because china is coming up very very fast and particularly as the economic global crisis is affecting the west the most i mean this is a time for china it's an opportunity for china but also there are still can remain hesitant and really stepping up on the stage a lot more when the world really needs more leadership. well but that's the world

allow china to take pocket as as part of the global community i mean just listen to what half it has been said during this show it has been offended it. and and at the same time people say well why don't they tap a bigger share well china will take its share and it has it's growing and as it's also maturing in its system its share on the global community role will grow but it's it's sort of flying against very heavy headwinds because everybody tells you how careful you are and on the other hand come sialic the overall response of billericay of us who wish we don't want to give you because you're not trust the wealthy solve it cannot you cannot on the one hand say you are not worth having responsibility and you are saying you very much elaine with the time we've run out of time here we'll find out later if china save the world many thanks to my guest today in miami earth wind and in beijing thanks sure it was for watching us here to

see you next time member asked. to. stay.