about seven thirty on friday night here in moscow do without the headlines now by the italian senate approves as harsh as the new austerity more get to stem the growing consensus that the euro zone's third largest economy is falling to the ravages of the euro crisis. palestine is expected to push for a vote on its un statehood now even if it loses it once the bids opponents to justify their decision why would you believe will be dictated by the united states . and western corporations that descend upon the oil rich libya seeking to skim the

cream off the riches that following nato forming. all right so my colleague bill daughter's here in half an hour's time but for now china's enormous cash reserves may be just what the e.u. needs to clore itself out of economic turmoil people of health care costs and cross talk now discuss beijing's possible role as the eurozone savior that's now right here. twenty years ago in the largest country in the suitcase it. was how did. you get it your. where did it take the. cake in the store. on the sofa to keep.

following the welcome across our computer world china's maneuvering our chinese fortunes faring during the global financial crisis and the eurozone fiasco political uncertainty in the us and the arab spring is china and the gainer is the world undergoes massive economic in geopolitical shifts and as the world changes will china take on a greater leadership role. taking to the streets . across not china's growing influence i'm joined by great audrey in irvine he's an entrepreneur and co-author of death by china in miami we have already shankar he used a ford motor company chair in global business management at ohio state university and in beijing we cross to doris nesbitt she's the director of the nesmith china institute all right folks you have difference a points of view on this and i want you to show my viewers ok but first people say

that china is set to save the world well i don't know about that but there is little doubt that over the last decade asia and china specifically has been steadily moving to the fore of the global economy and in the wake of the two thousand and eight credit crunch which shattered the western presidential crisis and triggered europe's own sovereign debt crisis experts say china's role in power in global affairs is more palpable than ever only a canonic mike is reflected in the. some talk over beijing's capacity to contribute to the hero's owns bailout fund the decision has not been finalized by the european leaders and the i.m.f. have all welcome to cross back over an investment which could range the truth fifty and a hundred billion dollars. i believe resolution for european debt very ability to finance trade and economy. if china doesn't share cash into the eurozone it would mark unprecedented shift and global power dynamics and make china a financial power on par with the u.s.

and this wouldn't have a first time for the two countries jousted for a while now the u.s. has laid claims that china is under valuing its currency they continue to try to game the system to their advantage and our just sit damage so i think it's appropriate and fitting in timely for us to be standing up and saying you know this is this is not acceptable ultimately however saving the eurozone and the u.s. is in china's own economic interests meanwhile economists are already warning of contagion threat if the crisis unravels and some have pointed to the country's slow growth as a sign of a spill over effect concerns that beijing has dismissed. if humans and. you want to use that you know who owns it is trying to say that the national economy is generally on the right track and is benefiting from the control policies on the domestic front china's going further tightening the screws on internet freedom whether it's a sign of its internal vulnerability in that world by popular uprisings isn't clear

but it's an easy media conference last week and it was a whole slew of measures in that starting with the chinese coal the spread of harmful information but irrespective seems like it's going to go its way i want to talk about which way to go odin in miami if i go to you first year i mean what's most topical right now is whether the chinese will bail out the europeans bail out for your euro zone i usually do but would they get out of it well first of all i think. you know the rise of china has been has been you know unfolding fairly fairly quickly. my book the chinese century you know about six seven years ago i you know i predicted that china would become world largest economy in twenty twenty five and we are midway through there through the process so this is not entirely unpredictable i mean you know we have both the united states and europe that are really mired in mountain of that there are only two countries out there that have the resources to help them out one is japan which is also somewhat reluctant global

player with a lot of the west equations to solve and then of course china you know you have. trillions of reserves were. sinking deeper into debt all this was i think you know quite predictable ok great if i can go to you in irvine in the chinese have been very hesitant because they see that the europeans just can't get their house in order we've created such a mess of their economies with this debt crisis here why would the chinese want to get in there and and it will see the euro feel half year from now. you know first of all we've got to be clear when the chinese loan money to america or europe it's not because they like them it's really a good political advantage you know for a future economic exploitation like every other country in that region is it is a different than other countries do i mean every country goes after self interest

right and geopolitical interest as well. is nowhere near is cutting and strategic is china does and we've got to be clear that finding our moral hazard and keeping us behaving badly either in europe or the united states is not in china's long term best interest either it's. going to see the west continue to harm itself doris you want to jump in there go right ahead. but yes i was just going to say who sets the measure i mean who decides what's good and bad behavior you know i think we're at a point where the west has to think about his science what's good and bad are we really in the position given all the problems we have talked top down to china and say what we decide this quote and what we think is good and what you would do is i think that the approach which much would be what can we do to kiev to solve the problems ok great you want to reply to that do you think that he decides to

measure very good question yeah well you know the. moral equivalency arguments really interesting until you come to face somebody who is truly evil we went through this whole same argument in the 1930's don't criticize the germans a lot of american companies went over there and set up business and said it's not our position you're here if you call you're creating that or you're equating china of today to nazi germany of the one nine hundred thirty s. . absolutely although i think you know in china some way worse as far as volume of scale and the level of censorship that's happening internally but clearly the repression they put on their rights and honestly the rest of the world put together are you saying i object absolutely objective moral values all right let's go do it in miami go ahead. no no i mean really object i mean i wouldn't you know equate the two together you know and i think germany is on a completely different level of being you know

a country that has been probably the worst atrocities that we have witnessed in human civilization so with all respect i mean i would not put china out there which i discovered it's the same here and i think if you saw any other totalitarian regime in history doris you want to reply to that here. and you are scared yes so you are today. you're not you open your poor car mr clark we were squatting. mocked to the tiananmen square that was in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine i don't know when you have been to china for the last time and i don't know what how many chinese weeks ago you have been talking you know we have we we you private place expert in our studios in mainland china and not and not go well. you know we are in china right now and we have been talking last week in what people often do where they really try and work on the integration to get people

into an economic growth the rural population are they young people are going with each other via internet it's not that there is no communication that internet certainly can be called the second party in china and it's certainly certain things are regulated that's without doubt like china is in the process of establishing each own way of running the country take a break it's an interesting point i mean if the chinese china's economy for years and you're just here for a greener gesture i mean in the west china is criticized because it is not in line with the washington consensus if i can use that term here i mean china is a rising power the west is and even steadily it's middle steadily dick. lighning ok i mean so it really is the west has to adjust itself to a rising china and india with its own relative decline would you agree with that the same argument was made about the declining british empire at the beginning of

the twentieth century and how the new way it was the soviet union and the fascist states in europe. so countries that are willing to exploit their people to any level are always able to achieve quick turnaround so we saw it i mean really we saw that in germany we saw that with the beginning of the soviet union it's not sustainable but that's how they do i really i mean i've seen the people standing behind the rear of an ox with a wooden plow all the party members in shanghai in the business people in shanghai in moscow party like there's no tomorrow i've seen little children who are going to die because of lack of a five thousand dollars surgery because their health care system is an absolute joke did you want to jump in there go ahead in miami yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean i mean first first of all i mean again and i want to say in a very very clear clear fashion you get these no question that you know the chinese is a bad regime as far as as moralities is concerned to put it at the same as a regime that is old and i is messmate is of people you know because of their you

know religion or otherwise you know a clean nation. called wrong having said that having said that you called me on the ground. not only let me finish the in jail or disappear go ahead and finish up in miami go ahead again i don't think you can equate it because i'm very sorry i think you are entirely wrong but let me finish my point having said that these no question that china is going to extract a heavy price for any. bailout my own view is that they're going to do it in a more this way and there will be a lot of strings attached of course i do not buy the voices coming out of the. united states it would not be any better there will be lots of strings attached but again he's in the the in china's interest their main markets the euro

and the u.s. remain able to buy you know a chinese product i don't think it is. question about that ok greg i want to ask you a question i mean what china is benefited so much from the current economic order in the world right now i mean they're going to still continue to work as a partner as doris tried to point out you want to demonize them into an enemy but it's in their own interest to keep the order going the way it is. exactly the way that it's an interest that a drug dealer has in his customer being able to continue to buy products that are doing the back of our car sustaining europe's bad behavior sustaining america's bad behaviors that are is not a on this plan we're going to a short break and we've got a lot more to talk about three and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on china stay with our team. to take a. look you can.

in canada and the u.s. that it is legal for you to give a bubble bath on your baby it contains a known carcinogen something that causes cancer most of this trying to soften up the independent they are sponsored by in the spirit and most of the time they don't that creates a conflict of interest today an average cancer drug prescription costs nearly one thousand six hundred dollars a month a month got a nobody with cancer and my five therefore i protect so because ninety to ninety five percent of cancers hurts people with health family history of cancer the pharmaceutical industry spends about fourteen percent of their budget on research and development and about thirty one percent for marketing and ministration. in fact there are more pharmaceutical industry lobbyists in washington d.c.

and members of congress. close to teen husbands in the richer for technological breakthroughs save human lives. heart she goes to the scene. interesting ways to protect. place where farming pioneers place local cuisine to the highest paid player and where future developments depend on the way. his last post should close up hard to. play. the. lead. welcome back to crossfire computer little reminder we're discussing china's

increasing power. play can. lead. doris i know you want to jump in right here on and you want to react to what dr greg said i did before the break so go right ahead. yes i think we have one common ground and that is that china has pointed out millions hundreds of millions of people out of poverty to a relatively modest wealth. you know the finishing of human rights includes in china that people have something to eat that people have a hope that people have a future and in judging china which is a very emotional attachment as we can see when we are here when we listen to what we have to say and you have to consider we have china came from where it started

and if you look around china we're not only in cities like beijing or shanghai we are on the countryside and if you see the children of parents who can not read our knowledge having the ability for the offer to visit the school to afghanistan to learning so that they are all to look for life has increased and improved dramatically you know you cannot always see it look at china and say ok you cannot overthrow the government clearly you cannot almost all the government but life does not only content in overthrowing problem and life is that you can fulfill your dreams but you can create a trough that you can recreate your family all of this is very much in the needs of the chinese people and they have more and more of it they go ahead you know ok i get there but i don't want to hear the story that china has communist government

has raised two hundred million people out of poverty they didn't raise anybody out of poverty hardworking intelligent chinese people raise their selves out of poverty with the who lifted just a little bit and cheering for the chinese government in this way is like sharing the last horse in the kentucky derby japan korea taiwan singapore thailand all these are very asian nations. pulled themselves up way before chided the only thing the chinese government did was hold its people back longer so that they could be the very last people to achieve that sort of lifestyle it's a tragedy it isn't for you i didn't think if i were you happy if i go to miami here i mean i think most reason people would say the chinese have done a pretty good job with the economic policy at least they're not in my mired in debt like their competitors in the european union the united states i mean they've certainly done some some very positive things now you could say also with their foreign economic policy they're just only interested in self-interest they don't have all the baggage that the west has about humanitarian interventions in all

these other things mean the chinese should go on their own way i mean there's something to be said about that right right i mean. this is going to miami greg greg mugabe's a bed hater i hope it will be brought to the hague that has nothing to do with it i mean we talk about china. is always more complex than the excuse me the picture is always wall complex then the one sided argument that they hear here on on both sides yes does the cheney's leadership have considerable achievement i don't think there's any question about it when you're talking about you know a liter of c. and the like is there a heavy very heavy price being paid by individuals because of the policies of you know more than these asian and economic growth first no question about it i mean i can give you

a very specific example of myself about trade off you know childhood cancer each china and things that are not being taken care of and so forth these no question about that as well the reality is is always much more complex than it seems. you want to see a democracy in china eventually. of course yes. can it happen it was will it happen it was i am not so sure i want to remind everyone did it with the exception of play one there was really no precedent of. a democratic chinese society u.k. you may think it's such a time when of all the i heard it eventually of all it's ok great i mean it was me why should we assume if i go back to greg here in irvine and i should be assuming he is china were to go down the world the path of democratization as we all would understand it why would it have to be a western liberal model can't they have

a model that is more representative of their society and values go ahead. i didn't say that i just say we need a model that doesn't involve killing a lot of people walking them up in jails because of their religious beliefs and them intentionally exploiting the weaknesses of the western governments in order to bring them down faster my concern which i am as internal behavior in this conversation is mostly to say to you i get there if they treat their own people this way why would you expect them to treat you fairly and in economic or business contractual relationship and they don't they're systemic cheaters and liars ok i do receive a very steep. critique of china there how do you react to that i know we lost you for a second so. we respond to what you did here ok well you know i think that one can prove anything and everything if you look at a certain point if you choose certain points looking at the u.s. the picture can be very grim why it can be very bright so there can be thing said about china which are not bright and there are things that are very good but

consider one thing china is only thirteen years. into reform and opening up where was the u.s. years after the constitution was written where was the u.s. only more than the working years ago when the blacks were still all. oh come on you know gee if china was here he could tell you first have firsthand how the riots were against the cracks how he was taking share in sit ins because the blacks couldn't sit go to a restaurant so you know the point is we are not i am not here to defend the government but i want to say what we observe and what we observe is that china is on the path and it has done a very quick chop it has its flaws there are lots of things red has to improve including the environment corruption the freedom of speech concerning work on them

and of course nobody would deny that but. you cannot only look at one side and you take everything that's all something if you can do that with us all with you are all those those are going to go there as well greg you want to refinance because i'd like to talk to your point i would also like to talk about china a china taking more responsibility on the global stage because it is the second largest economy in the world and will surpass the united states soon but it's still not flexing its diplomatic and political responsibilities i would say commensurate with the size do you think about that. well let me just first of all say the key to being able to improve yourself over time is freedom of speech and criticism and so yes the u.s. is committed some terrible stands at home and around the world but the thing that's important is that we have made it we publicly flogged ourselves for it and we try to group the chinese government's incapable of doing that every guarding their position around the world they are very cautious and i think the key thing everybody needs to understand is that in china. politics lead economics as opposed

to in europe in united states where the goal of politics is trying to achieve a better economic state for the people in china the goal of economics is to keep the chinese communist party in power and that's why they allow improvement not because they care about those kids out in you know in province it's only because they want the boys to beijing to stay in power ok or do you think that it's really very socialist it's not really really sunshine is self interest it's the self interest of the communist party this is what we just heard. learned of for once i'm sure all over the. system ok to give to a different question here first of all eat so happens that in the eighty's the interest of the communist regime to provide economic prosperity i don't think there is any question about it. happens to be good for the country i mean to a great extent so the fact that these two objectives are consistent you know is something that we should we should keep in mind of course the regime would like to

stay in power of course it's a regime for weak economic prosperity is even more important for any other regime nevertheless it is something that it's creates a lot of good for the chinese people as well so that we need to keep in mind going back to your earlier question yes china is a reluctant player on a global scene. other reasons because it is a relatively new clear on global scene and there albeit he will play a remains to be seen what we've heard so far with china ease against the so-called us agony what we have all deserve so far is that china is unfortunately willing to engage with a lot of bad regime there each should not engage but all in all it's still a fairly reluctant player and may i say that one reason why china is has it been about providing more. the european union is really potential back

home and he will are increasingly concerned there you know chinese resources will go down. sinking a hole and the money will never be seen again ok go ahead and go to you there is another historical precedent out there was of an emerging power that the international community the international architecture didn't accept very well and that was germany at the end of the nineteenth and beginning twentieth century do you see that we've learned any lessons there because china is coming up very very fast and particularly as the economic global crisis is affecting the west the most i mean this is a time for china it's an opportunity for china but also there are they still can remain hesitant and really stepping up on the stage a lot more when the world really needs more leadership. while back to that does the world allow china to take pocket as as part of the global community i mean just listen to what happened it has been said that you're in this show it has been

offended. and and at the same time people say well why didn't they tap a bigger share well china will take its share and it has it's growing and has its also maturing in its system its share on the global community role will grow but it's it's sort of flying against very heavy headwinds because everybody tells you how careful you up and on the other hand come share their global response ability with you wish we don't want to give you because you're not trustworthy solvent you know you cannot on one hand say you know no pros having responsive play and you're saying you very much you claim with a grain of time we've been out of time here we'll find out later if china will save the world many thanks to my guest today in miami irvine and in beijing thanks sure it was for watching us here to see you next time members cost.

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