three holes on a day in the b. goldman homes the ranch is grimly it used to be the most secure the job the oil the ruben's original. thank you for joining us as we take a look at the week's top stories on our team the apec summit in hawaii sees asia in the pacific grimm's most powerful economies start to work on a possible game changing free trade zone this as tensions rose between beijing and washington but some analysts put down to the point scoring ahead of next year's the rest presidential election. the prime ministers of both italy and greece and all a new governments are appointed has their countries drowned in debt mario monti has taken over in italy and lucas papademos and greeks well they're likely to head up top technocratic governments and implement unpopular economic reforms. plus

a un report claims around my p.c.p. entertain a nuclear weapon but so far on slams the allegations as in the us backed smear campaign remain lawmakers are now reconsidering their country's cooperation with the i a which they're calling a disappointment. up next more hot debate with artie's cross talk team on today's show peter lavelle asks his guests if we can hear american saber rattling over around or is a recent i report claiming talk ron is trying to acquire nuclear arms a serious attempt to prevent the spread of atomic weapons stay with us for that.

cut cut cut. cut cut the costs. of the tragedy the story. in the south of. the sun. glowing welcome to cross talk among people about is it deja vu all over again good nations nuclear watchdog the i.a.e.a. claims in a new report that iran is moving ever closer to possessing a nuclear weapon critics of the report claim nothing new or even damning has been revealed nonetheless the drumbeat of war against iran can be heard loud and clear.

cut and the subtle. cross-talk iran's nuclear program i'm joined by mark levine in washington he's a senior fellow with the truman national security project and talk radio host from rock to university in new jersey we have hooshang amirahmadi he is a professor of international development and policy and in london we cross to patrick case he's a journalist and political commentator all right gentlemen this is cross talk to me if you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first we're calling this program iran appropriate i think rightfully so absolutely concerns over iran's nuclear program have been growing steadily for more than a decade when western countries like the united states and. israel expressing suspicion that the program could be used to develop nuclear weapons or the recent report by the un atomic agency these concerns could be nearing a diplomatic turning point the report issued last week has unloaded with some believed to be a trove of intelligence showing that up until two thousand and three to iran was

pursuing weapons related activities including research on nuclear warheads it was the first report of its kind that claims to offer expose the support for allegations that have so far remained uncorroborated for us there is no reason to believe what i. say especially because it's effectively. confirms. concerns that were already existing and were already recognized by u.n. . the u.s. joined by france and britain are now considering a range of options in addition to the four rounds of sanctions already in place against iran options that israel has warned could include a military strike meanwhile arena and president mahmoud ahmadinejad's has been defined promising not to yield to the pressure and calling the findings fraudulent . the american sir frederick you could if you please present given them so.

and he. papers why don't even publish one report on the united states won't be published even one report on the friends of the united states. iran maintains that its program is meant to obtain nuclear energy for electricity only but the u.s. and its western allies are worried and nuclear armed iran could lead to a regional arms race and poses a direct threat to israel. what most people do not realize that even china and india that are considered less enthusiastic for sanctions are extremely worried because in aggressive iran nuclear iran can threaten hundreds of millions of people in these countries. however because the report fails to state whether iran's efforts have resumed or to put off since two thousand and three there is still no concrete reason to think it causes a genuine threat likewise the report does not indicate whether iran possesses

weapons grade enriched uranium or the capacity to produce it to that and talk of military strikes could be premature unless justifying this type of action was the reports original purpose and that is what everybody is talking about let's talk about what everyone's talking about and if i could go to university. report we've had a little bit of time now almost a week now to digest it is it all hype or is it alarming take a side. hype really i mean i read the report several times compared to the previous report there is very little new district court a lot of repetitious statements a lot of accusations that really doesn't hold after all. it's really violate its own law transparency it does not saw it the sources that i was used to put this together second. is claiming that something was happening back in two

thousand and four two thousand and thirty but it is not really saying that after that that it has any information it may may. is used over and over that it may may be developing an explosive device and anywhere he talks about the militarization of his programs the nuclear programs it's basically uses the water possibility possibility possibility ok missiles i don't want to. believe all right mark do you think that. the i.a.e.a. report is thousand pages of intelligence from more than ten countries and it shows indeed. not just that iran is four fifths of the way to developing a highly enriched uranium program but that it has fourteen separate designs for installing the nuclear warhead on it's really in range missiles that can reach virtually everywhere in the middle east and no one can dispute the iranian nuclear

program is out there for a nuclear bomb least of which the leaders of iran who keep saying they want to annihilate israel saudi arabia is scared after all this is the country to just try to kill the saudi ambassador in the light states and the terrorists will go into nice little your ass a ridge that's alleged ok. it seems to me gentlemen i got to go to patrick first before we really jump in here patrick in london it seems to me and i'm not going to take a side here but it seems to me that instead of really looking at a round everyone's looking at the i.a.e.a. and it's cast a huge shadow over itself because if we compare it to the last report over the last head of the nuclear watchdog this one seems amazingly politicized and is as mark pointed out ten countries provided information to this report but those countries are not mentioned whatsoever. i think really this report is going to show just how political the i.a.e.a. is and i really want to go back to fundamental ceasars often really ask what is

this officious un affiliated quality doing in iran in the first place i don't think it has any real business i would like to say from the outset really do i think weapons inspections and we see this going from two thousand and three to now really playing a much broader broader role in the way in which western countries now also intervening in countries such as iran and then i think really what you get is the vice versa bill both worlds you get kind of western intervention but they do in a very dishonest way so they try to do in this new true kind of way for using these kind of arms like the u.n. like the i.a.e.a. to go in and basically poke their noses around suffering countries and interfere and i think they should back out completely and actually i think in many ways this kind of intervention who put on hold a lot of the uprisings that we've seen in the middle east they could potentially prevent you know the arab spring from developing any further ok mark you see very disapproving go right ahead. i definitely am looking i.a.e.a.

has performed a tremendous function here and it's very careful you should be very careful to know this is the united nations body for example very clearly said that iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction and other basis many americans like myself very much opposed the iraq war and now they're telling us that iran is hell bent on developing a nuclear weapon and i think lying to believe them and if you're worried about the arab spring if you worried about the persian people the people who are doing the green revolution we know that if their government develops a nuclear weapon there is no way they will finally achieve democracy freedom for women and rights in iran a lesson who could of had nuclear weapons and people would have achieved let's. go ahead mark let's yeah i think let's let's make the distinction between the it on domestic issues and it's international matters very clear that's the any and people's business they want to overthrow the regime or otherwise that's a different business you are talking about iran's nuclear program first let me say

that i am against between ization and nuclear programs and you know i mean i mean for military purposes in the middle east including israel and including iran and pakistan and india and elsewhere that's let's let's put that on the table but the point here is that this particular report that we are talking i could get it more commotion and sensation that it's really. in real terms and it. as i said violates its rules of transparency it must come clean and green and tell the world war who these sources are what the countries are provided the resources and beyond id. if i really is interested in coming to an end to a clean solution with iran it's really hard to promote lovecraft's land lubber of foreign minister of russia he has put an incredible plan. on the

united states and five plus one we know for a fact that iran has accepted. the basic plan both of the us has accepted in fact within that plan it and accept that to go along and approve the additional protocol after your ok ok so you were saying it's too quick if we could very well i'm sorry one question if i'm going to mark here i mean what the new york times reported that the head of the i.a.e.a. you actually went to the white house and presented his findings twelve days before it was released i mean why does the u.s. get to check it off first i mean if the i.a.e.a. the united nations body why does it why is only one party given access to it reset the check make sure that the outcome is right i mean it does look a bit suspicious here. i don't see as much as much suspicious when i look at it if anyone's going to take military action it will probably be the united states and that's why the united states has the strongest encouragement to seek sanctions so

that we don't have to rely on the last resort which is military action president obama ran for president said iran will not become a nuclear power either president i will keep his promise or he won't but i eat a want to make sure i think that the united states is is on board and i don't think that process is a big deal i do want to answer the shans point though about domestic interest in iran and the reason why they are important is that whatever you think of pakistan india israel these are democracies these are countries controlled by their people and iran you have a country a government that very much imposes on its people the persian people want freedom they don't want to stick to your ship they don't like to have women treated as second class citizen markets are largely for the brokers. you do like to ask for a question before we go to break ok all that's all nice and find what you said about democracy but the nuclear program in iran is actually quite popular with the population well depends i think it's hard to read if you like your insurance very very difficult to trust polls to hide the libyan people are quite happy because duffy did not have nuclear weapons and i think that if the iranian government has

nuclear weapons it's a really sad day for the persian people are bogor ok mcbride you want to jump in go ahead first bashing going. very struck by the fact that knox is very happy to speak on behalf of the arabian people i think they should speak on their our faces rise up and over three are there reporting over it and the government and the deli and i and i think that i think it's a state of war you break the primary candidate you've been here he comes right back to you after a short break and after a short break we'll continue our discussion on iran state party. who can take you straight. to the you. will. right to clean up goes down. squandered money. abandon. what is now.

more than sixty square kilometers or move from the most nation under those who are still suprising live i'm fighting for just. giving bad out here but not saying hardly any birds squirrels. i don't know what's going on here. cause creep on our cheek. with. science technology innovation all the list of elements from around russia we. can. start. to. think.

welcome back to cross talk i'm purely about to mind you we're talking about iran and its nuclear program. to keep the story. ok patrick i want to go back to you because you were i had to last point to make it the first half of the program one of the things i think is very interesting here is that and i'll be a little bit provocative and i want to see how you guys react to it but it really it looking at the report it's not really an analysis of nucular iran's nuclear program it's a case to go to war against it. well i do think that the i.a.e.a. and as i said kind of other kind of weapons inspections bodies are playing an increasingly important role in effectively paving the way towards potential war i think i was very evident with the iraq war with the formulation of the quality dossier i know that the i.a.e.a. were directly involved with that but the director former director general hans blix

certainly was kind of did a lot of the inspections in iraq in there and i think that's up but i guess more fundamentally i just wanted to make this point i do think you know the fact that the u.s. were given kind of privileged access for anyone else to this reports the fact that it's actually the i.a.e.a. is known in the independent but does alternately just answer to the u.n. and also it's a kind of a banner the fact that actually this is being considered in the first place as a delay just to make thing that's an international body can start to affect simply poking its nose in other countries business. recommend the imposition of sanctions and effectively start to talk has not started to the on behalf of the arabian people in saying this isn't in their interests well actually they should be up to the challenge talking about if you see what are actually talk about who's in who's it in whose interest this is all about right before the report came out mark i want to talk to you in washington and we had a scandal coming out of the israeli cabinet about netanyahu trying to get members of his own coalition government on board for an attack on iran and then the report

comes out i mean people outside cops or something like that but it certainly can't be a coincidence and israel has been itching for the u.s. to to bomb do to destroy the nuclear program that is there in iran for a lot of long time now i mean this is coming to a head. well first of all the solution resume the i.a.e.a. is a tool of anyone as i noted in iraq what i made very clear against the united states government being controlled by president bush that iraq did not have nuclear any weapons of mass destruction bush went to war anyway so the i.a.e.a. is another tool the united states look a war is coming and less iran's nuclear weapons program stopped it's that simple maybe from israel maybe from united states maybe from harry reid more from europe with your latest where you're assuming that you're assuming that is politically if you're going to do sanctions now ok we'll show you just you know it's going to get going riker's you ever so you go ahead. that went against mr bush in iraq was headed by mr day and that very mr el baradei in an interview in

time magazine flatly said that iran has never had as far as here is concerned that nuclear program designed to large militaries ation so the same that went against mr bush the same i.e. now said that iran doesn't have that a military edition program this is a complete no the other say i.e. as you know i was a little exercise patrick going to imagine for a personal tragedy in their home and what's going to matter in london there what we're seeing is kind of scaremongering here basically war is imminent unless splitting a clear weapons no it's not. for the u.s. and israel to decide whether or not they'd sites declare war on iran just the fact that it does build nuclear weapons doesn't necessarily mean they're going to use them and who is it really the u.s. israel the west to decide who or who doesn't develop nuclear weapons anyways and

the question should be follow suffering countries to make those decisions and i just want to make this point is i think what we're seeing here really is a modern form of colonialism from these countries they're using weapons inspections agencies the u.n. etc to keep down these countries that they see to be disappearing unruly not trust worthy of possessing these kind of weapons i think that's really problematic in the style of old formula in your arteries. good thing it was a radio you know arab emirates egypt turkey you're going to have all these countries corruptions you're going to have a nuclear bomb and let me let me jump in here you don't mean that the only please let me jump in here on america gentlemen let me jump in here marc if i can go to you and i to a very short of one sentence from the report today to iran has not provided the agency access to the heavy water stored if you arrange your rainy and conversion facility in order to take samples now that's an accusation here but if you check but heavy water production is not covered by iran's safeguards agreement i mean

it's saying that iran is doing things that it's shouldn't be doing but it's not true i mean the fact the matter is there are certain things that don't fall under agreements that iran is signed but they're still accused of not being cooperate to use a blatant mistake write a report the right hand side nuclear nonproliferation nonproliferation it's also so i it's also something i say guards agreement of additional the most nice nuclear program in history. except iran is not allowing i scrutinize the program look at iran at a peaceful program originally they said they were going to take the lower and wished for a new ship or to russia for processing that it could only be used for peaceful purposes whatever happened to the idea and recognizing that actually shipped it off they could develop a nuclear warheads the i.a.e.a. has made very clear in a very very detailed if you haven't read those appendix in the fourteen pages as they show the design of the iranian warhead and how the nuclear bomb could be put

in that warhead i mean i think you're living in a dream world and the thing is is that the other countries in the region it's not just israel and saudi arabia and the u.a.e. and egypt and turkey and soon you have a massive nuclear arms race in the middle east with a lot of terrorism you will there's a lot of one country could get away i just want to show you just one country in the region the turks have nuclear weapons and it's israel go ahead rockers university go ahead first first first has. responded in detail those scorching called studies that dealt with the building a nuclear device or weapons. they did military assault that has been already. has those import nations that the creation why is iranian nuclear work is. this what's your question. that's the strength to a society well i said i want to get it you cannot hit us you go with the just give them up my friend my friend you don't you cannot tell

a country not to do any of studies for any reason and the fact that they tell a country a lot of the families are open it doesn't mean they are building it now i mean that is of course is they'll be wise in iran was the energy julian gentlemen not only there's a very good question hanging out here not everybody patrick i am a poor factor let me go to patrick in london ok look i mean there are thousands of troops on both sides american troops on both sides of iran there is a very. a strong american fleet to the south ok and it's being threatened constantly with attack and maybe even invasion so i mean if i were part of the political elite in surround i would probably want to nuclear weapon because you know if you don't then you fall down the path of what iraq libya i mean no wonder north korea is going down that path i mean i'm just saying that countries actually rationally in their own national interests. yeah i think they do i think in many ways it wouldn't necessarily be in iran's interest to develop

a new tone because i mean that's as they point out it's own if they have one or two then obviously they could be completely obliterated i israel and the us successor i think what we're seeing here to an extent is an erosion of kind of moral authority from the west in many ways they now feel the need. for inspectors to go into these countries and effectively build up this evidence space allows them to intervene in one way or another why can't you just speak america's lack of confidence i think in many ways it's no longer feels it has a moral authority i mean but even so i think that moral authority is very problematic what we're doing here is when we say oh there might be an arms race over the u.a.e. may want nuclear weapons other countries in that region might see if they say the only people who are civilized enough to possess nuclear weapons or this kind of power are going to superiors in the west i think it's a very popular country imagining are you dreaming there is a world is actually using them for one is actually used in the united states is used as weapons exactly going to go to the country of yes mark go ahead and get our

crew here in washington i think the mistake that patrick who shot his mate are making is they're conflating the iranian government with the country of iran and they say iran iran iran is if the government represented to people of iran they do not the people are very much trying to overthrow their dictatorship the persian people happen to be some of those pro western pro israel pro-democracy pro women's rights people in the middle east but they are being put down by their own government and i fear that they are also good for her to use nuclear weapons to put their own people down democracies having nuclear weapons is one thing when a dictatorship has them it leads to a far more dangerous world who shall go ahead that's just that's all right you have mark just first right but he's please understand there is there is no persian people people are persian our soul is a small bansemer people the ethnic community did so that's not closure that's number one second same goes it on young people are also untidy. those iranian people the same sort of iran is how the regime is anxious that they are suffering

from american sanctions from israeli war threats they are suffering from did regime yes you are absolutely right the point here is this i believe if the united states wanted iran to build nuclear weapons it is trying to do its best to do it i mean what the u.s. is doing what israel is are doing are really pushing this plan because partly the war between his asian i think there is a lot out there exactly what is that there actually let me explain to let me explain that mr lover of the foreign minister after russia has put a plan on the table the plan say let's work a deal between the five plus one and iran on an incremental basis and there which iran will suspend its is illicit activities and the u.s. will lift sanctions now if part of that iran has accepted accepted to ratify the additional protocol it has accept. anyone here it's an immaterial. where

they promised they would. it's good to be part of that they have accepted to stand that it's. they have accepted and all the right gentlemen gentlemen really scientifically gentlemen we're fast we're running out of time here patrick i want to give you the last word in the program let me see if you get. the deadline is this is this just a drumbeat for war go ahead i'm quite got smacked by mark i want something that he can speak on behalf of the iranian people you know better than they can you know he seems and instead of guardian guardian of the iranian people can't be seen to take their own initiative and actually overthrow the governments themselves i think any intervention in the west like going to iran is going to play is going to put any kind of potential uprising or arab spring in iran on the whole regiment really will run out of time we'll see where this goes many thanks my guest today in london

washington and it rutgers university in new jersey and thanks to our viewers for watching as you are to see you next time remember. keep.