welcome back your weather it's a reminder of the top stories the latest summit of the civic powers in hawaii opens a financial can of worms between the world's two biggest economies the u.s. has criticized china for its trade and currency practices called on it to play by the rules. syria seeks to reverse the arab league's decision to pull it out of the organization amid growing anti regime protests which critics claim are sponsored from abroad the freeze on the country's membership received wide support from the e.u. and us. have blasting off or get a crew of three had to the international space station in russia so use rocket it's

the first launch since a similar rocket carrying an up down supply craft crashed back to earth three months ago. after a un report claiming iran might be seeking to obtain a bomb people about asks his guests about the reasons behind the world's interest in the country's atomic industry crosstalk is next. live. live live live. live. live. live. below and welcome to crossfire thank you look old is it gameshow who all over again united nations nuclear watchdog the i.a.e.a. claims in a new report that iran is moving ever closer to possessing

a nuclear weapon critics of the report claim nothing new or even damning has been revealed nonetheless the drumbeat of war against iran can be heard loud and clear. lip to. listen. to crosstalk iran's nuclear program i'm joined by mark levine in washington he's a senior fellow with the truman national security project and talk radio host from rutgers university in new jersey we have hooshang amirahmadi he's a professor of international development and policy and in london we crossed to patrick case he's a journalist and political commentator all right gentlemen this is cross talk to me if you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first we're calling this program iran appropriate i think rightfully so absolutely concerns over iran's nuclear program have been growing steadily for more than a decade where the western countries like the united states and israel expressing suspicion that the program could be used to develop nuclear weapons where the

recent report by the un atomic agency these concerns could be nearing a diplomatic turning point report issued last week has unloaded what some believe to be a trove of intelligence showing that up until two thousand and three to iran was pursuing weapons related activities including research on nuclear warheads it is the first report of its kind that claims to offer explicit support for allegations that have so far remained uncorroborated. for us there is no reason to believe. i was saved especially because it effectively. confirms the. concerns that were already existing and were already recognized by you when. the us joined by france and britain are now considering a range of options in addition to the four rounds of sanctions already in place against iran options that israel has warned could include a military strike meanwhile iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad's has been

defined promising not to yield to the pressure and calling the findings fraudulent . the american so fabricated if you keepers and given them to the chief and he speaks here and there about these papers why don't be even publish one report on the united states why don't the publish even one report on the fronts of the united states and. iran maintains that its program is meant to obtain nuclear energy for electricity only but the u.s. and its western allies are worried a nuclear armed iran could lead to a regional arms race and poses a direct threat to israel what most people do not realize even china and india. are considered less enthusiastic for sanctions are extremely worried because an aggressive iran nuclear iran can threat them hundreds of millions of people in these countries. however because the report fails to state

whether iran's efforts have resumed or tapered off since two thousand and three there is still no concrete reason to think this is a genuine threat likewise the report does not indicate whether iran possesses weapons grade uranium or the capacity to produce it to that end talk of military strikes could be clean richer and less justifying this type of action was the report's original purpose and that is what everybody is talking about well let's talk about what everyone's talking about if i could go to a director's university this report we've had a little bit of time now almost a week now to digest it is it all hype or is it alarming to take a side. well it's hard to really i mean i the report several times compared to the previous report there is very little new industry a lot. of statements a lot of accusations that really doesn't hold after all. it's really violate its own law transparency it does not side the sources that has used to

put this together so. is claiming that something was happening back in two thousand and two before two thousand and three but it is not really saying that after that that it has any information it may may. is used over and over that it may may be developing a explosive device and anywhere he talks about the military is asian of this programs the nuclear programs it's basically uses the water possibility possibility a possibility ok mr wright is one of my because i believe mark what do you think about hype. the report is thousand pages of intelligence from more than ten countries and it shows indeed. well not just that iran is four fifths of the way to

developing a highly enriched uranium program but that it has fourteen separate designs for installing the nuclear warhead on its reading range missiles that can reach virtually everywhere in the middle east no one can dispute that the iranian nuclear program is out there for a nuclear bomb least of which the leaders of iran who keep saying they want to annihilate israel saudi arabia is scared after all this is the country that just tried to kill the saudi ambassador in the states and the terrorists that this will be tonight is a letter you are so read stats alleged ok. it seems to me gentlemen i got to go to patrick first before we really jump in here patrick in london it seems to me and i'm not going to take a side here but it seems to me that instead of really looking at a round of everyone's looking at the i.a.e.a. and its cast a huge shadow over itself because if we compare it to the last report over the last head of the nuclear watchdog this one seems amazingly politicized and is as mark pointed out ten countries provide information to this report but those countries

are not mentioned whatsoever. i think really this report is going to show just how political the i.a.e.a. is and i really want to go back to fundamentals to start off what is this officious u.n. affiliated party doing in iran in the first place i don't think it has any real business i would like to say from the outset really i think weapons inspections and we see this going from two thousand and three to now really play a much broader broader role in the way in which western countries now intervene in in countries such as around then i think really what you get is the worse worse the bill both worlds he gets kind of western intervention but they do in a very dishonest way so they try to do in this new true kind of way for using these kind of arms like the u.n. like the i a to go in and basically poke their noses around suffering countries and interfere and i think they should back out completely and actually i think it's many ways this kind of intervention who put on hold a lot of the uprisings that we've seen in the middle east think that potentially

prevents the arab spring from developing any further ok mark you see very disapproving go right ahead. i definitely am looking i.a.e.a. has performed a tremendous function here and it's very careful you should be very careful to know this is the united nations body for example very clearly said that iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction and other bases many americans like myself very much opposed the iraq war now they're telling us that iran is hell bent on developing a nuclear weapon and i think lying to believe them and if you are worried about the arab spring if you worried about the persian people the people who are doing the green revolution we know that if their government evolves a nuclear weapon there is no way they will finally achieve democracy freedom for women and rights in iran lesson one of he had neutral i want people would have achieved in my last year that separate ok we shall go ahead jump in mark let's yeah i think look let's let's make the distinction between the heat on domestic issues and it's international matters very clear here that's the iranian people's business

they want overthrow the regime or otherwise that's a different business we are talking about iran's nuclear program first let me say that i am against their plan is asian and nuclear programs and you know i mean i mean for military purposes in the middle east including israel and including iran and pakistan and india and elsewhere let's let's let's put that on the table but the point here is that this particular report that we are talking have created more commotion and sensation that it really is in real terms and it. said violates its rules of transparency it must clean and drink and tell the world who these sources are what the countries are provided the resources and beyond that i think. if i.a.e.a. is really is interested in coming to an end clean solution with iran it's

really hard to promote lovecraft's land lubber our foreign minister of russia he has put an incredible plan. on the table for the united states and five plus one we know for a fact that iran has accepted. the basic principles of the us has accepted in fact within that plan and accept that to go along and approve the additional protocol after your ok ok if it was back and see if we could bring new hampshire in question if i can go to mark here i mean what the new york times reported that the head of the i.a.e.a. actually went to the white house and presented his findings twelve days before it was released i mean why does the u.s. get to check it off first i mean it's the i.a.e.a. the united nations body why does it why is only one party given access to it recently checked make sure that the outcome is right i mean it does look a bit suspicious here. i don't see as me as much suspicious at all ok if anyone's

going to take military action it will probably be the united states and that's why the united states has the strongest encourage me to seek sanctions so that we don't have to rely on the last resort which is a military action president obama ran for president said iran will not become a nuclear power either president i will keep his promise or he won't but i eat a want to make sure i think the united states is is on board and i don't think that process is a big deal i do want to answer a chance point about domestic interests in iran and the reason why they're important is that whatever you think of pakistan india israel these are democracies these are countries controlled by their people and iran you have a country a government that very much imposes on its people the persian people want freedom they don't want to stick to the ship they don't want to have women treated as second class citizens are people are largely worthless regardless. if you'd like to ask my last question before we go to the break ok all that's all nice and find what you said about democracy between the nuclear program in iran is actually quite popular with the population well depends i think it's hard to read what is the

elevator ship it's very very difficult to trust pulls through i think the libyan people are quite happy to put our feet did not have nuclear weapons and i think that if the iranian government has nuclear weapons it's a really sad day for the persian people are more ok more traffic you want to jump in go ahead first actually going pretty are very strong that's what i was very struck by the fact that knox is very happy to speak on behalf of the arabian people i think they should speak on their behalf places rise up and over free are their own thing over it and the government and the belly and i think that i think it's a state of war you have played here at the primary i mean the job in here i can bring back to you after a short break and i was on a short break we'll continue our discussion on the ground state authority. you can. still. to come. we.

just wealthy british.

markets. find out what's really happening to the global economy. look at the global financial headlines to watch. we're talking about iran and its nuclear program. to. live. ok patrick i want to go back to you because you were i had the last point to make and the first half of the program one of the things i think is very interesting here is and i'll be

a little bit provocative and i want to see how you guys react to it but it's really it's not really an analysis of nucular iran's nuclear program it's a case to go to war against it. but i do think that the i.a.e.a. and as i said kind of other kind of weapons inspectors bodies are playing an increasingly important role in effectively paving the way towards potential war i think i was very evident with the iraq war with the formulation of the ability dossier i know that the i.a.e.a. were directly involved with that but the director former director general hans blix certainly was he kind of did a lot of the inspections in iraq and i think that up but i guess it more fundamentally i just wanted to make this point i do think you know the fact that the u.s. were given kind of privileged access for anyone else to do this reports the fact that actually the i.a.e.a. is not in the independent but does also let me just answer to the the u.n. and also it's a kind of armor but the fact that actually this is being considered in the first place is legitimate thing that's an international body can start to effectively

poking its nose in other countries business. recommend the imposition of sanctions and effectively start to talk has not started to be on behalf of the arabian people in saying this isn't in their interests well actually they should be up to the rail and she was talking about you said well i want to talk about who's in who's it in whose interest this is all about right before the report came out mark i want to talk to you in washington and we had a scandal coming out of the israeli cabinet about netanyahu trying to get members of his a coalition government on board for an attack on iran and then the report comes out i mean maybe that's psychopathy or something like that but it certainly can't be a coincidence and israel has been itching for the u.s. to could bomb do to destroy the nuclear program that is there in iran for a lot of long time now i mean this is coming to one head. but first of all solution presume the i.a.e.a. is to kill anyone as i noted in iraq what i made very clear against the united states government being controlled by president bush that iraq did not have nuclear or any weapons of mass destruction bush went to war anyway so the i.a.e.a.

is not a tool of united states look a war is coming unless iran's nuclear weapons program is stopped it's that simple and maybe from israel maybe from united states maybe from chile we get more from europe but you're may just be you're assuming you're assuming that is i do please you or if you do sanctions now ok you sure you know it's going to get going and wreckers universally go ahead. that against mr bush in iraq was headed by mr day and that very mr el baradei in an interview in time magazine flatly said that iran has never had as far as here is concerned and nuclear program designed to a large military zation if so the same that bet against mr bush the same now said that iran doesn't have that military station program this is a completely new idea of the cia as you know i was you let's just patrick going i

imagine for a personal tragedy and this is your home and what's going to patrick in london there what we're seeing is kind of scaremongering here basically war is imminent unless it's building nuclear weapons well it's not. for the u.s. and israel to decide whether or not they decide to play war on iran just the fact that it does build nuclear weapons doesn't necessarily mean they're going to use them and who is it really for the u.s. israel the west to decide who or who doesn't develop nuclear weapons anyways i mean washington people are suffering countries to make those decisions i just want to make this point so i think what we're seeing here really is a modern form of colonialism from these countries they're using weapons inspections agencies u.n. accessory to keep down these countries that they see to be disappearing mediant unruly not trustworthy or possessing these kind of weapons i think that's really problematic because of all the formula in your three. the radio you know arab emirates egypt turkey you're going to have all these countries

develop corrections you're going to have a nuclear bomb that's what i mean let me jump in here you know the only please let me jump in here on america gentlemen let me jump in here marc if i can go to you and i to read a very short of one sentence from the report today iran has not provided the agency access to the heavy water stored if you arrange your rainy and conversion facility in order to take samples now that's an accusation here but if you check but heavy water production is not covered by iran safeguards agreement i mean it's saying it's iran is doing things that it's should be doing but it's not true i mean the fact the matter is there are certain things that don't fall under agreements that iran is sign if you still queues of not being cooperate to meet it's a blatant mistake rather report here on his side nuclear nonproliferation. for so so i guess it's also something i say guards agreement an additional the most of the really nice nuclear program in history. except iran is not allowing

i.e. a to scrutinize their program look if you don't have a peaceful program originally they said they were going to take the lower and russian raney and ship it to russia for processing that it could only be used for peaceful purposes whatever happened to that idea while you run recognize it actually shipped it out they could develop a nuclear warheads the i.a.e.a. has made very clear in a very very detail and if you haven't read those appendixes in the fourteen pages they show the design of the iranian warhead and how the nuclear bomb could be put in that warhead i mean i think you're living in a dream world and the thing is is that the other countries in the region it's not just israel and saudi arabia and the u.a.e. and egypt and turkey and soon you have a massive nuclear arms race in the middle east with a lot of terrorism you will there's not one country could get i don't know if we saw the way i thought who should because there's one country in the region the turks have nuclear weapons and it's israel go ahead hooshang records university go ahead look at first the first first eat on has. responded in detail those

studies that dealt with the building a nuclear device or weapons. the military itself that i've been already. i yelled at you has those important nations a very clear issue why is iranian nuclear weapon anywhere close to the russian. that's running this trial into a society and i said we will look at it you cannot do that last year well it is like they just killed the mother my friend my friend you don't you cannot tell a country not to do any studies for any of these that mention the fact that they tell a country after the volleys of. building get now i mean till then dennis of course is guilty it was indeed on the energy julian gentlemen not only that's a very good question hanging out here in on everybody i am a professor let me go to patrick in london ok look i mean there are thousands of troops on both sides american troops on both sides of iran there is

a very. a strong american fleet to the south ok and it's being threatened constantly with attack and even invasion so i mean if i were part of the political elite and to run i would probably want to nuclear weapon because you know if you don't then you fall down the path of what iraq libya i mean no wonder north korea is going down that path i mean i'm just saying that countries act rationally in their own national interests. yeah i think they too i think in many ways it wouldn't necessarily be in iran's interest to develop a new home because i mean that's as they point out the times they had one or two that obviously they could be completely obliterated right israel and the us successor i think what we're seeing here to an extent is in their version of kind of moral authority from the west in many ways they now feel the need. for inspectors to go into these countries and effectively build up this evidence space allows them to intervene in moama and what i call the. america's lack of confidence i think in many ways it's no longer feels it has the moral authority i mean but

even so i think that moral authority is very problematic what we're doing here is when we say oh there might be an arms race over the u.a.e. may want to develop nuclear weapons other countries in that region might see this person say the only people who are civilized enough to possess nuclear weapons or this kind of power are the superiors in the west i think it's a very popular country a very large community was treated in the world is actually used for one is actually used in the united states is used as weapons grade exactly going to the only country that everybody says mark go ahead again our crew here in washington i think the mistake that patrick who shot his make are making is there conflating the iranian government with the country of iran and they say iran iran iran is if the government represented the people of iran they do not the people are very much trying to overthrow their dictatorship the persian people happen to be some of the most pro western pro israel pro-democracy protests women's rights people in the middle east but they are being put down by their own government and i fear that our all of us will revert using nuclear weapons to put their own people down

democracies having nuclear weapons is one thing when a dictatorship has them it leads to a far more dangerous world who shall go ahead that's just the best all right you have not just first right but these please understand that is there is no persian people people in persian are still is a small one same people the ethnic community did so that's not persian that's number one second same people that those people are also untidy. goes into young people the same thing about iran is how the regime he's anxious that they are suffering from american sanctions from israeli war they are suffering from did regime yes you are absolutely right the point here is this i believe if the united states wanted iran to build nuclear weapons it is trying to do its best to do it and what the u.s. is doing what israel is are doing are really pushing this daniel public award winners asian i think it is a lot out there exactly opposite amica party in that they're actually let me

explain to let me explain that mr lover of the foreign minister of russia has put a plan on the table the plan says let's work a deal between the five plus one and iran on an incremental basis and then he will suspend this is illicit activities and the u.s. will lift sanctions now in part of that plan iran has accepted accepted to ratify the additional protocol it has accepted. the way they promised they would. well it would be part of that they have had separate to send that expense they have to sell it was ayesha they have accepted and all the right gentlemen gentlemen wrote that scientifically gentlemen we're fast running out of time here patrick i want to give you the last word in the program let me say this because that. is this is this just a drumbeat for war go ahead yeah i'm quite got smacked by not side assumption that

he can speak on behalf of the iranian people you know better than they can you know he seems into something instead of the guardian guardian of the iranian people who can't be seen to take their own initiative and actually i was afraid the governments themselves i think any intervention in the right like i'm sure is going to play is going to put any kind of potential uprising or arab spring in iran on the whole all right gentlemen gentlemen we've run out of time we'll see where this goes many thanks my guest today in london washington and it records university in new jersey and thanks to our viewers for watching issues arche to next time remember. keep. still. keep. twenty years ago the largest country. two suitcases.

but how did. you. get it you know. where did it take.