now past the hour here in moscow you are watching on t.v. a quick recap of the top stories for you now the latest summit of pacific powers in hawaii opens a financial can of one between the world's two biggest economies the u.s. has criticized china first trade and currency practices and called on it to play by the rules. syria seeks to reverse the arab league's decision to suspend it from the organization thousands protest in damascus meanwhile russia slams the decision under q.'s is the west of inciting the conflict. and a blasting off for all but

a crew of three head to the international space station in russia's soyuz rocket is the first launch since a similar rocket carrying an unmanned supply craft crashed back to earth some three months ago. after a u.n. report claiming iran might be seeking to obtain the bomb people of our last guest about the reasons behind the world's interests in the country's atomic industry cross-talk it's right. live live. live can. listen to the link. below and welcome to cross talk on q. lookout is it deja vu all over again the united nations nuclear watchdog the

i.a.e.a. claims in a new reports that iran is moving ever closer to possessing a nuclear weapon critics of the report claim anything new or even damning has been revealed nonetheless the drumbeat of war against iran can be heard loud and clear. lip can. live. cross-talk iran's nuclear program i'm joined by mark levine in washington he's a senior fellow with the truman national security project and talk radio host from rock to university in new jersey we have hooshang amirahmadi he's a professor of international development and policy and in london we crossed to patrick case he's a journalist and political commentator all right gentlemen this is cross talk to me as you can jump in it anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first we're calling this program iran appropriate i think rightfully so absolutely concerns over iran's nuclear program have been growing steadily for more than a decade with western countries like the united states and the israel expressing

suspicion about the program could be used to develop nuclear weapons with the recent report by the u.n. atomic agency these concerns could be nearing a diplomatic turning point report issued last week has been loaded with some believed to be a trove of intelligence showing that up until two thousand and three to iran was pursuing weapons related activities including research on nuclear warheads it is the first report of its kind that's claimed saw for exposing support for allegations that have so far remained uncorroborated. for us there is no reason not to believe what i post so you can say especially because it affected me. confirms the. concerns that were already existing and were already recognized by you when. the us joined by france and britain are now considering a range of options in addition to the four rounds of sanctions already in place against iran options that israel has warned could include

a military strike meanwhile iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad's has been defined promising not to yield to the pressure and calling the findings fraudulent . the american so fabricated if you keepers and given them to the chief and he speaks here and there about these papers why don't they even publish one report on the united states why don't the publish even one report on the fronts of the united states and. iran maintains that its program is meant to obtain nuclear energy for electricity only but the u.s. and its western allies are worried a nuclear armed iran could lead to a regional arms race and poses a direct threat to israel what most people do not realize that even china and india. are considered less enthusiastic for sanctions are extremely worried because in a. nuclear iran can threaten hundreds of millions of people in these countries.

however because the report fails to state whether iran's efforts have resumed or to put off since two thousand and three there's still no concrete reason to think this is a genuine threat likewise the report does not indicate whether iran possesses weapons grade uranium or the capacity to produce it to that and talk of military strikes could be premature unless justifying this type of action was the reports original purpose and that is what everybody is talking about well let's talk about what everyone's talking about if i could go to university. report we've had a little bit of time now almost a week now to digest it is it all hype or is it alarming take aside. hype really i mean i read the report several times compared to the previous report there is very little new industry a lot of the petition statements a lot of accusations that really doesn't hold after all. it's really violate its

own law transparency it does not saw it. as used to put this together the second. is claiming that something was happening back in two thousand before two thousand and three but it is not really saying that after. that it has any information it may may. is used over and over that it may may be developing an explosive device and anywhere he talks about militarization of this programs the nuclear programs it's basically uses the water possibility possibility possibility ok michelle knight is one of my sources because of that report ok mark what do you think about hype. the i.a.e.a. report and thousand pages of intelligence from more than ten countries and it shows

indeed. not just that iran is four fifths of the way to developing a highly enriched uranium program but that it has fourteen separate designs for installing the nuclear warhead on it's really in range missiles that can reach virtually everywhere in the middle east and no one can dispute the iranian nuclear program is out there for a nuclear bomb least of which the leaders of iran who keep saying they want to annihilate israel saudi arabia is scared after all this is the country to just try to kill the saudi ambassador in the states and a terrorist and this will be tonight is a letter your perhaps a ridge that's alleged ok. it seems to me gentlemen i think i've got to go to patrick first before we really jump in here patrick in london it seems to me and i'm not going to take a side here but it seems to me that instead of really looking at around everyone's looking at the i.a.e.a. and it's cast a huge shadow over itself because if we compare it to the last report over the last head of the nuclear watchdog this one seems amazingly politicized and is as mark

pointed out ten countries provide information to this report to those countries are not mentioned whatsoever. i think really this report is going to show just how political the i.a.e.a. is and i really want to go back to fundamental ceasars often really asked what is this officious u.n. affiliated party doing in iran in the first place i don't think it has any real business i would say from the outset really i think weapons inspections and we see this going from two thousand and three to now really playing a much broader broader role in the way in which western countries now intervene in in countries such as iran and then i think really what you get is the worse worse the bill both worlds and you get kind of western intervention but they do it in a very dishonest way so they try to do in this new true kind of way for using these kind of arms like the u.n. like the i a to go in and basically poke their noses around suffering countries and interfere and i think they should back out completely and actually i think it's

many ways this kind of intervention who put on hold a lot of the uprisings that we've seen in the middle east they could potentially prevent you know the arab spring from developing any thorough ok mark you see very disapproving go right ahead. definitely i look at i.a.e.a. has performed a tremendous function here and it's very careful we should be very careful to know this is the united nations body for example very clearly said that iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction and on that basis many americans like myself very much opposed the iraq war now they're telling us that iran is hell bent on developing a nuclear weapon and i think lying to believe them and if you're worried about the arab spring if you worried about the persian people the people who are doing the green revolution we know that if their government develops a nuclear weapon there is no way they will finally achieve democracy freedom for women and rights in iran a lessening of the had nuclear weapons of people would have achieved let's. go ahead mark let's yeah i think let's let's make the distinction

between the it on domestic issues and it's international matters very clear and that's the iranian people's business they want to overthrow the regime or otherwise that's a different business you are talking about iran's nuclear program first let me say that i am against between ization and nuclear programs and you know i mean i mean for military purposes in the middle east including israel and including iran and pakistan and india and elsewhere and that's let's let's put that on the table but the point here is that this particular report that we are talking i could get it more commotion and sensation that it's really our first in real terms. as i said violates its rules of transparency if i'm asked clearly and drink and tell the world war who these sources are what the countries are provided this resources and beyond that id. if i really is interested in

coming to an end to a clean solution with iran it's really hard to prove more or less that lovecraft's land lubber are part of minister of russia he has put an incredible plan workable plan on the table for the united states iran and five plus one we know for a fact that iran has accepted. the basic plan goals of that plan that us has accepted in fact within that plan iran accepted to go along and approved the additional protocol after your ok ok if it was actually quick if we could very well i'm sorry one question if i'm going to mark here i mean what the new york times reported that the head of the i.a.e.a. actually went to the white house and presented his findings twelve days before it was released i mean why does the u.s. try to check it off first i mean it's the i.a.e.a. the united nations body why does it why is only one party given access to it

recently check make sure that the outcome is right i mean it does look a bit suspicious here. i don't see as much as much suspicious when i look at it if anyone's going to take military action it will probably be the united states and that's why united states has the strongest encouragement to seek sanctions so that we don't have to rely on the last resort which is a military action president obama ran for president said iran will not become a nuclear power either president i will keep his promise or he won't but the i.a.e.a. wants to make sure i think that the united states is is on board and i don't think that process is a big deal i do want to answer the shans point though about domestic interest in iran and the reason why they are important is that whatever you think of pakistan india israel these are democracies these are countries controlled by their people and iran you have a country a government that very much imposes on its people the persian people want freedom they don't want to stick to ship they don't want to have women treated second class citizen markets are likely horses regardless of the phrase you like to ask my question before we go to the break ok all that's all nice and find what you said

about democracy but the nuclear program in iran is actually quite popular with the population well depends on who you talk to right if you like cherish your kids very very difficult to trust polls the idea of the libyan people are quite happy because alfie did not have nuclear weapons and i think that if the iranian government has nuclear weapons it's a really sad day for the persian people of bogor ok mcbride you want to jump in go ahead first the bashing going very strong and i was very struck by the fact that knox is very happy to speak on behalf of the arabian people but i think they should speak on their our faces right up and over three are there reporting moments in the government and the belly and and i and i think i think it's a state of war your base here our primary candidate you've been here he comes right back to you after a short break and then in a short break we'll continue our discussion on iran state or king. who can kick start. the it's. just so we.

see. can i say.

welcome back to crossfire computer about to mind you were talking about iran and its nuclear program. live can see live. ok patrick i want to go back to you because you were had the last point to make it now in the first half of the program one of the things i think is very interesting here is and i'll be a little bit provocative and i want to see how you guys react to it but it really looking at the record it's not really an analysis of nucular iran's nuclear program it's a case to go to war against it. well i do think that the i.a.e.a. and as i said kind of other kind of weapons inspectors bodies are playing an increasingly important role in effectively paving the way towards potential war i think i was very evident with the iraq war with the formulation of the dossier i know that the i.a.e.a. were directly involved with that but the director thought the director general hans

blix certainly was he kind of did a lot of the inspections in iraq and added that up but i guess more fundamentally i just wanted to make this point i do think you know the fact that the u.s. were given kind of privileged access for anyone else to do this reports the fact that actually the i.a.e.a. is not in the independent but does also let me just answer to the the u.n. and also to kind of armor the fact that actually this is being considered in the first place as a delay just to make thing this an international body can start to effectively poke its nose in other countries business. recommend the imposition of sanctions and effectively start to talk has not started to do on behalf of the arabian people and say this isn't in their interests well actually they should be up to the rail and sure let's talk about if you see what i want to talk about who's in who's it in whose interest this is all about right before the report came out mark i want to talk to you in washington and we had the scandal coming out of the israeli cabinet on netanyahu trying to get members of his own coalition government on board for an

attack on iran and then the report comes out i mean maybe that psychopathy or something like that but it certainly can't be a coincidence and israel has been itching for the u.s. to do bomb due to destroy the nuclear program that is there in iran for a lot of long time now i mean this is coming to an head. well first of all solution presume the i support anyone as i noted in iraq what i made very clear against the united states government controlled by president bush that iraq did not have nuclear or any weapons of mass destruction bush went to war anyway so the i.a.e.a. is not a tool of united states look a war is coming unless iran's nuclear weapons program stop it's that simple and maybe from israel or maybe from united states which are you really are from europe with your major spear you're assuming you're assuming that is i do please you or if you do sanctions now ok you sure you know it's going to get going records university go ahead. that went against mr bush in iraq was headed by mr day and that very mr al baghdadi in an interview in times

magazine flatly said that iran has never had asked as he is concerned at a nuclear program designed to large militarisation so the same that went against mr bush that same i now said that iran doesn't have that military station program this is a complete military others say i.e. as you know a little jealous isn't patrick going to imagine for a personal tragedy and there's the chinaman which disagree london what we're seeing is kind of scaremongering here basically war is imminent and less. clear weapons no it's not. for the us and israel to decide whether or not they decide to play war on iran the fact that it does build nuclear weapons doesn't necessarily mean they're going to use them and who is it really the us israel the west to decide who or who doesn't develop nuclear weapons anyways i mean washington people are suffering

countries to make those decisions i just want to make this point so i think what we're seeing here really is a modern form of colonialism from these countries they're using weapons inspections agencies u.n. etc to keep down these countries that they see to be disappearing mediant unruly not trustworthy or possessing these kind of weapons i think that's really problematic it's just kind of old for who you are a phrase. so another google. arab emirates egypt turkey you're going to have all these countries develop right corrections you're going to have a nuclear let me let me jump in here you know the only police legend here on america gentlemen let me jump in here mark if i can go to you and i to a very short one sentence from the report today iran has not provided the agency access to the heavy water stored if you arrange your rainy and conversion facility in order to take samples now that's an accusation here but if you check but heavy water production is not covered by iran's safeguards agreement i mean it's saying

it's iran is doing things that it's should be doing but it's not true i mean the fact the matter is there are certain things that don't fall under agreements that iran is sign but they're still accused of not being cooperative it's a blatant mistake right to report iran has signed nuclear nonproliferation. or so so i guess it's also something i see guards agreement of additional the most nice nuclear program in history. well except that iran is not allowing i scrutinize their program look if you run out a peaceful program originally they said they were going to take the lower end which iranian ship or to russia for processing that it could only be used for peaceful purposes whatever happened to that idea while you run recognize that actually shipped it out they could develop a nuclear warheads the i.a.e.a. has made very clear in a very very detail and if you haven't read those appendixes in the fourteen pages they show the design of the iranian warhead and how the nuclear bomb could be put

in that warhead i mean i think you're living in a dream world and the thing is is that the other countries in the region it's not just israel and saudi arabia and the u.a.e. and egypt and turkey as soon you have a massive nuclear arms race in the middle east with a lot of terrorism you know there's only one country could go do it in a way i do want to show you this is one country in the region that is have nuclear weapons and it's israel go ahead hooshang rector's university go ahead look at first first first iran has. responded in detail. studies that dealt with the building a nuclear device or bedpans. the military itself that i've been arguing the i.c. i yelled at you has those import nations. creation why is iranian nuclear weapon anywhere because you do not know that's the strength of the society and all i said i mean look if you cannot hit us here. just give them up to my friends my friends

you don't you cannot tell a country not to do any of studies for any reason mentioned at the fact that they tell a country a lot of the political opens it doesn't mean they are building it now i mean it's all done that is of course is they'll be there is a need i'll be very energy julian gentlemen monoline it's a very good question hanging out here again on everybody actually i am a professor let me go to patrick in london ok look i mean there are thousands of troops on both sides american troops on both sides of iran there is a very. a strong american fleet to the south ok and it's being threatened constantly with attack and maybe even invasion so i mean if i were part of the political elite in turan i would probably want to nuclear weapon because you know if you don't and you fall down the path of iraq libya i mean no wonder north korea is going down that path i mean i'm just saying that countries aren't rationally in their own national interests. yeah i think they do i think in many ways it wouldn't necessarily be in iran's interest to develop

a new home because i mean that's as they point out sometimes they have one or two then obviously they could be completely obliterated i israel and the us successor i think what we're seeing here to an extent is in their version of kind of moral authority from the west in many ways they now feel the need. for inspectors to go into these countries and if i actually build up this evidence base allows them to intervene in one way or another what i call the. americans lack of confidence i think in many ways it's no longer feels it has a moral authority i'm eighteen but even so i think that moral authority is very problematic what we're doing here is when we say oh there might be an arms race over the u.a.e. may want to develop nuclear weapons other countries in that region might see if they say the only people who are civilized enough to possess nuclear weapons or this kind of power are going to superiors in the west i think it's a very kind of country of origin are you agreeing that is the world is actually using them for what is actually used in the united states is used as weapons exactly going to go to countries if you mark go ahead that are go ahead in

washington i think it was take a patrick who shared his make are making is there conflating the iranian government with the country of iran and they say iran iran iran is if the government represented the people of iran they do not the people are very much trying to overthrow their dictatorship the persian people happen to be some of those pro western pro israel pro-democracy pro women's rights people in the middle east but they are being put down by their own government and i fear that there are three gentlemen who really really use nuclear weapons to put their own people down to my wishes having nuclear weapons is one thing one a dictatorship has them it leads to a far more dangerous world who shall go ahead that's just the best all right you have not just first right but these and these and this that there is there is no persian people people persian are still is wanting people there the community did so that's not persian that's number one second saying people get those young people are still untidy. those iranian people the same group of iranians how to rid of

these sanctions that they are suffering from american sanctions from israeli war they are suffering from did regime yes you are absolutely right the point here is this i believe if the united states wanted iran to build nuclear weapons it is trying to do its best to do it and what the u.s. is doing what israel is are doing are really pushing this damage or pop it award that when his asian i think there is a plot out there exactly obviously i mean the public that they're actually let me explain to let me explain that mr lover of the foreign minister of russia has put a plan on the table the plan says let's work a deal between the five plus one and iran on an incremental basis and there which iran will suspend its is illicit activities and the u.s. will lift sanctions now in part of that iran has accepted accepted to ratify the additional protocol it has accepted.

when they promised they would. it's good to be a part of that they have accepted to send that they have used only russia they have accepted and all the right gentlemen gentlemen. were fast we running out of time here patrick i want to give you the last word in the program let me say this because our system here. is this just a drumbeat or go ahead i'm quite got smacked by mark seibel something that he can speak on behalf of the iranian people you know better than they can you know he seems and the sound of guardian guardian of the iranian people can be seen take their own initiative and actually overthrow the government themselves i think any intervention in the way like a ground is going to play is going to put any kind of potential uprising or arab spring in iran on the whole are actually in germany will run out of time will see where this goes many thanks my guest today in london washington and it record

university in new jersey thanks for viewers for watching issues arche see you next time remember a star. struck. i'm.