this is from the russian capital top stories now moscow blamed syria's increasing international isolation on western plans to bring about regime change arab league has turned its back on president assad with the u.s. and its allies calling for tougher action to bring him down. the heat the u.s. and china exchanged tough language over trade and currency issues as the apec summit comes to a close and why the pacific free trade area dominated the gathering with russia set to be the next host. u.s.

police put the pressure on occupy protesters tearing down tents and arresting activists as a crackdown on the movement escalates across the country. so that brings you up to date for the moment with more news for you in less than thirty minutes from now in the meantime after a u.n. report claiming iran might be seeking to obtain nuclear weapons. the reasons behind the world's interest in the country's atomic industry cross-talk is next here on r.t. . with . its technology innovation all the developments from russia we've got the future.

blowing welcome across town people about is it deja vu all over again united nations nuclear watchdog the i.a.e.a. claims in a new report that iran is moving ever closer to possessing a nuclear weapon critics of the report claim nothing new or even damning has been revealed nonetheless the drumbeat of war against iran can be heard loud and clear. to. cross-talk iran's nuclear program i'm joined by mark levine in washington he's a senior fellow with the truman national security project and talk radio host from rock to university in new jersey we have hooshang amirahmadi he's a professor of international development and policy and in london we cross to patrick case he's a journalist and political commentator all right gentlemen this is crosstalk that means you can jump in it anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first we're calling this program iran appropriate i think rightfully so absolutely concerns over iran's nuclear program have been growing steadily for more than

a decade where the western countries like the united states and those are all expressing suspicion that the program could be used to develop nuclear weapons where the recent report by the u.n. atomic agency these concerns could be nearing a diplomatic turning point recorded last week has unloaded what some believe to be a trove of intelligence showing that up until two thousand and three to iran was pursuing weapons related activities including research on nuclear warheads it is the first report of its kind that claims to offer explicit support for allegations that have so far remained uncorroborated. for us there is no reason to believe. i was say especially because it affected me. confirms. concerns that were already existing and were already recognized by the un. the us joined by france and britain are now considering a range of options in addition to the four rounds of sanctions already in place

against iran options that israel has warned could include a military strike meanwhile iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad's has been defined promising not to yield to the pressure and calling the findings fraudulent . the american sir fabricated if you keep giving them to the chief and he speaks here and there about these papers i don't even publish one report on the united states why don't they publish even one report on the fronts of the united states and. iran maintains that its program is meant to obtain nuclear energy for electricity only but the u.s. and its western allies are worried a nuclear armed iran could lead to a regional arms race and poses a direct threat to israel what most people do not realize even china and india. are considered less enthusiastic for sanctions are extremely worried because in a. nuclear iran can threaten hundreds of millions of people in these countries.

however because the report fails to state whether iran's efforts have resumed or tapered off since two thousand and three there is still no concrete reason to think it causes a genuine threat likewise the report does not indicate whether iran possesses weapons grade enriched uranium or the capacity to produce it to that end talk of military strikes could be premature unless justifying this type of action was the reports original purpose and that is for everybody is talking about well let's talk about what everyone's talking about if i could go to university of this report we've had a little bit of time now almost a week now to digest it is it all hype or is it alarming to take a side. really i mean i read the report several times compared to the previous report there is very little new industry a lot of petition statements

a lot of accusations that really doesn't hold after all. it's really violate its own law of transparency it does not saw it the sources that i was used to put this together. is claiming that something was happening back in two thousand before two thousand but it is not really saying that after that that it has any information it may may. is used over and over or that it may may be developing an explosive device and anywhere he talks about the military is nation of programs that are nuclear programs it's basically uses the water possibility possibility the possibility ok mr wright is on one side because of his report mark what do you think. the

i.a.e.a. report is thousand pages of intelligence from more than ten countries and it shows indeed. well not just that iran is four fifths of the way to developing a highly enriched uranium program but that it has fourteen separate designs for installing the nuclear warhead on it's really in range missiles that can reach virtually everywhere in the middle east and no one can dispute that the iranian nuclear program is out there for a nuclear bomb the least of which the leaders of iran who keep saying they want to annihilate israel saudi arabia is scared after all this is the country that just tried to kill the saudi ambassador in the united states and a terrorist told me tonight is a letter your parents a ridge that's alleged ok. it seems to me gentlemen i got to go to patrick first before we really jump in here patrick in london it seems to me and i'm not going to take a side here but it seems to me that instead of really looking at a round everyone's looking at the i.a.e.a. and it's cast a huge shadow over itself because if we compare it to the last report over the last

head of the nuclear watchdog this one seems amazingly politicized and is as mark pointed out can countries provide information to this report but those countries are not mentioned whatsoever. i think really this report is going to show just how political the i.a.e.a. is and i really want to go back to fundamental ceasars often really ask what is this officious un affiliated portie doing in iran in the first place i don't think it has any real business i would like to say from the outset really i think weapons inspections and we see this going from two thousand and three to now really playing a much broader broader role in the way in which western countries now intervene in countries such as around then i think really what you get is the worse worse the bill of both worlds you get kind of western intervention but they do in a very dishonest way so they try and do in this new true kind of way for using these kind of arms like the u.n. like the i a to go in and basically poke their noses around suffering countries and

interfere and i think they should back out completely and actually i think in many ways this kind of intervention who put on hold a lot of the uprisings that we've seen in the middle east they could potentially prevent you know the arab spring from developing any further ok mark you see very disapproving go right ahead. i definitely am looking i.e. a has performed a tremendous function here and it's very careful you should be very careful to know this is the united nations body for example very clearly said that iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction and other bases many americans like myself very much opposed the iraq war now they're telling us that iran is hell bent on developing a nuclear weapon and i think lying to believe them and if you're worried about the arab spring if you're worried about the corrosion people the people who are doing the green revolution we know that if their government evolves a nuclear weapon there is no way they will finally achieve democracy freedom for women and rights in iran a lesson is enough he had nuclear weapons are people would have achieved that separate ok we shall go ahead jump in mark let's yeah i think look let's let's make

the distinction between it on domestic issues and it's international matters very clear eyed that's the end people's business they want overthrow the regime or otherwise that's a different business you are talking about iran's nuclear program first let me say that i am against the plan as asian nuclear programs and you know i mean i mean for for military purposes in the middle east including israel and including iran and pakistan and india and elsewhere let's let's let's put that on the table but the point here is that this particular report that we are talking have created more commotion and sensation that it really is in real terms. as i said violates its rules are transparency it must can lead and blink and tell the world war who these sources are what the countries are provided the resources

and beyond i ding. if ari is nearly is interested in coming to an end to a clean solution with iran it's really hard to promote. lovecraft's plan lover of foreign minister of russia he has put an incredible plan workable plan on the table the united states and five plus one we know for a fact that iran has accepted. the basic plan both of us had accepted in fact within that plan iran accepted to go along and approved additional growth after your ok ok if it was actually quick if we could really i'm sorry one question if i'm going to mark here i mean what the new york times reported that the head of the i actually went to the white house and presented his findings twelve days before it was released i mean why does the us get to check it off first i mean it's the i.a.e.a.

the united nations body why does it why is only one party given access to it or is it to check make sure that the outcome is right i mean it does look a bit suspicious here. i don't see as much as much suspicious when i look at it if anyone's going to take military action it will probably be the united states and that's why united states has the strongest encourage me to seek sanctions so that we don't have to rely on the last resort which is a military action president obama ran for president said that iran will not become a nuclear power either president i will keep his promise or he won't but i was to make sure i think the united states is is on board and i don't i don't think that process is a big deal i do want to answer the shans point about domestic interest in iran and the reason why they're important is that whatever you think of pakistan india israel these are democracies these are countries controlled by their people in iran you have a country a government that very much imposes on its people the persian people want freedom they don't want to stick a dish if they don't want to have women treated as second class citizen our people are largely worthless regard. to what you like to ask my question before we go to

the break ok all that's all nice and find what you said about democracy but the nuclear program in iran is actually quite popular with a population well depends i think it's hard to read if you like your ship it's very very difficult to trust polls though i think the libyan people are quite happy i called up we did not have nuclear weapons and i think that if the iranian government has nuclear weapons it's a really sad day for the persian people are bad or ok i'm a prophet you want to jump in go ahead first badgering going to israel very soon that was very struck by the fact that knox is very happy to speak on behalf of the arabian people i think they should speak on their they are faces right up and over three are the only thing moments in the government under delhi and i think that i think it's a state of law here at the primary i mean that you've been hearing i'm going back to you after a short break imagine a short break we'll continue our discussion on the ground state party. who can take you straight. to the you.

will.

just. live. live live live. live. live. live welcome back to crossfire i'm carol about to mind you were talking about iran and its nuclear program. live still live. ok patrick i want to go back to you because you were i had the last point to make it now in the first half of the program one of the things i think is very interesting here is and i'll be a little bit provocative and i want to see how you guys react to it but it's really

you looking at the report it's not really an analysis of nucular iran's nuclear program it's a case to go to war against it. well i do think that the i.a.e.a. and as i said kind of other kind of weapons inspectors bodies are playing an increasingly important role in effectively paving the way towards potential war i think i was very evident with the iraq war with the formulation of the ability dossier i know that the i.a.e.a. were directly involved with that but the director thought the director general hans blix certainly was he kind of did a lot of the inspections in iraq in there and get that up but i guess more fundamentally i just wanted to make this point i do think you know the fact that the u.s. were given a privileged access for anyone else to do this reports the facts that actually the i.a.e.a. is not in the independent but does alternately just answer to the u.n. and also it's a kind of a bummer but the fact that actually this is being considered in the first place is legitimate thing it's an international body can start to effectively poke its nose

in other countries business. recommend the imposition of sanctions and effectively start to talk has not started to do on behalf of the arabian people and say this isn't in their interests well actually they should be able to talk about it he said well i want to talk about who's in who's it in whose interest this is all about right before the report came out mark i want to talk to you in washington and we had the scandal coming out of the israeli cabinet about netanyahu trying to get members of his own coalition government on board for an attack on iran and then the report comes out i mean maybe that psych ops or something like that but it certainly can't be a coincidence and israel has been itching for the u.s. to to bomb do to destroy the nuclear program that is there in iran for a lot of long time no i mean this is coming to an head. well first of all silage presume the i.a.e.a. is a tool of anyone as i noted in the iraq war that i made very clear against the united states government being controlled by president bush that iraq did not have nuclear or any weapons of mass destruction bush went to war anyway so the i.a.e.a.

is not a tool of united states look a war is coming unless iran's nuclear weapons program stop it's that simple and maybe from israel or maybe from the united states which i really admire from europe with your major speech you're assuming you're assuming that is i do please you or if you do sanctions now ok you show your you know it's going to get going and wreckers university go ahead there i.e. ed. that went against mr bush in iraq was headed by mr day and that very day in an interview in times magazine flatly said that iran has never had asked as he is concerned and nuclear program designed to large military zation so the same that went against mr bush the same now said that iran doesn't have that a military stationed program this is a complete knowledge rather see a as you know i lose your license is patrick going to imagine your personal tragedy

and there's the gentleman we're going to patrick in london what we're seeing is kind of scaremongering here basically war is imminent unless it's building nuclear weapons no it's not all somebody needs to be for the u.s. and israel to decide whether or not they'd start the clare war on iran the fact that it does build nuclear weapons doesn't necessarily mean they're going to use them and who is it really us israel the west to decide who or who doesn't develop nuclear weapons anyways i mean question to be close suffering countries to make those decisions i just want to make this point is i think what we're seeing here really is a modern form of colonialism from these countries they're using weapons inspections agency so you're an accessory to keep down these countries that they see to be disappearing unruly not trustworthy or possessing these kind of weapons i think that's really problematic in the style of always for whom you are a phrase. so knowing it was a radio you know arab emirates egypt turkey you going to have all these countries

develop right direction surely of a nuclear bomb and let me let me jump in here you know the only please let me jump in here on america gentlemen let me jump in here marc if i can go to you and i read a very short one sentence from the report today to iran has not provided the agency access to the heavy water stored and uranium conversion facility in order to take samples and that's an accusation here but if you check but heavy water production is not covered by iran safeguards agreement i mean it's saying it's iran is doing things that it's should be doing but it's not true i mean the fact the matter is there are certain things that don't fall under agreements that iran is signed but they're still accused of not being cooperative but it's a blatant mistake right to report here on his side nuclear nonproliferation. or so so i guess it's also something i see guards agreement of additional the most nice nuclear program in history. well except that iran is not allowing i

scrutinize their program look if you don't have a peaceful program they said they were going to take the lower initial any and ship it to russia for processing that it could only be used for peaceful purposes what ever happened to that idea why iran recognize it actually shipped it out they could develop a nuclear warheads the i.a.e.a. has made very clear in a very very detail and if you haven't read those appendixes in the fourteen pages as they show the design of the iranian warhead and how the nuclear bomb could be put in that warhead i mean i think you're living in a dream world and the thing is is that the other countries in the region it's not just israel and saudi arabia and the u.a.e. and egypt and turkey and soon you have a massive nuclear arms race in the middle east with a lot of care is ok well that's what i was interested. i thought who should because there's one country in the region that have nuclear weapons and it's israel go ahead hooshang wreckers university go ahead look at first the first first heat on has. responded in detail the. studies that

dealt with the building a nuclear device or bedpans. the military itself that i've been all over the ice. that has those import nations that creation why is iranian nuclear weapon is. so you get russia and then i've got the strength to a society and all i said are you want to get it you cannot do that last year when why don't you just give them up my friend my friend you don't you cannot tell a country not to do any of studies for any reason at the fact that they tell a country not of the. building get that out i mean it will then dennis of course is they'll be wise in iraq the energy julian gentlemen gentlemen it's a very good question hanging out here clucking on everybody patrick i am a professor let me go to patrick in london ok look i mean there are thousands of troops on both sides american troops on both sides of iran there is

a very. a strong american fleet to the south ok and it's being threatened constantly with attack and even invasion so i mean if i were part of the political elite and to run i would probably want to nuclear weapon because you know if you don't then you fall down the parts of iraq libya i mean no wonder north korea is going down that path i mean i'm just saying that countries aren't rational in their own national interests. yeah i think they do i think in many ways it wouldn't necessarily be in iran's interest to develop a new tone because i mean that's as they point out the times they had one or two that obviously they could be completely obliterated i.e. israel and the us successor i think always seeing here it's an extent is in the rotation of kind of moral authority from the west in many ways they now feel the need. for inspectors to go into these countries and that actually build up is evidence place allows them to intervene in one way or another what i call the. americans lack of confidence that if you many ways it's no longer feels it has the moral authority i'm eighteen but even so i think that moral authority is very

problematic what we thing here is when we say oh there might be an arms race over the u.a.e. may want to smell of nuclear weapons other countries in that region might be is basically saying the only people who are civilized enough to possess nuclear weapons or this kind of power are going to superiors in the west i think it's very common in the country imagine i mean what is the green light in the world is actually used for what is actually used in the united states is used as weapons exactly going to go to the country's deputy said mark go ahead ken arco here in washington i think the mistake that our cricket who shot his make are making is there conflating the iranian government with the country of iran and they say iran iran iran is if the government represented the people of iran they do not the people are very much trying to overthrow their dictatorship the courage of people happen to be some of those pro western pro israel pro-democracy pro women's rights people in the middle east but they are being put down by their own government and i fear that they're also going to really really really use nuclear weapons to put their own people down to my wishes having nuclear weapons is one thing when

a dictatorship has them it leads to a far more dangerous world who shall go ahead that's just the best all right you have not just first right but these and these and this that that is there is no persian people people are close and are still as one team people community did so that's not persian that's number one second thing people get those people are also untidy. those iranian people the same group of iranians how to rid of these anxious that they are suffering from american sanctions from israeli war are they are suffering from did regime yes you are absolutely right the point here is this i believe if the united states wanted iran to build nuclear weapons it is trying to do its best to do it and what the u.s. is doing what israel is are doing and are really pushing this damage of public award that when his asian i think there is a plot out there exactly opposite amica party and that they're actually let me

explain to let me explain the mr lover of the foreign minister of russia has put a plan on the table the plan says let's work a deal between the five plus one and iran on an incremental basis and then iran will suspend its is illicit activities and the u.s. will lift sanctions now in part of that iran has accepted accepted to ratify the additional protocol it has accepted. the way they promised they would. well it's good be part of that they have accepted to stand that it's definitely only russia they have accepted and all the right gentlemen gentlemen wrote that scientifically gentlemen we're fastly running out of time here patrick i want to give you the last word in the program let me say this because that policy. is this just a drumbeat or go ahead i'm quite got smacked by mark side of assumption that he can

speak on behalf of the iranian people you know better than they can you know he seems and instead of guardian guardian of the iranian people he can't be seen to take their own initiative and actually overthrow the governments themselves i think any intervention in the west like going to run is going to play is going to put any kind of potential uprising or arab spring in iran on the whole all right gentlemen gentlemen we're running out of time we'll see where this goes many thanks to my guest today in london from washington and it rutgers university in new jersey and thanks to our viewers for watching issues arche see you next time remember to stop . making. street.