some from funds to pressure these. stunts on t.v. don't come. raging on their parade from coast to coast police trying to silence occupy protesters by evicting them so could this be the end of the movement as we know it if not what's next and will there be a leader who steps up to take it to the next level. china is really in the driver's seat in many respects and this is coming at an awkward time for the united states because the united states is clearly a declining power of the same time president obama isn't helping with that notion this is he tells china to behave like a grownup so as the u.s. falls behind him china speeds ahead is this mentality something the u.s. will later regret down the road. the debt dominoes continue to fall in europe as

greece and italy switch out there are leaders ship putting non elected officials in power source democracy dying in a land that invented it in the first place. and it's time to celebrate lock up with no rights and no questions out that's right happy ten year anniversary guantanamo bay and take a look at some of the best years behind bars and ask this question why hasn't president obama followed through with his promise to shut it down. good afternoon on this monday november fourteenth four pm in our studios here in washington d.c. i'm christine arching r t. well it has now been ten years since president george w. bush signed an executive order setting out military commissions to try terrorism suspects at guantanamo bay this was to the bush administration an easy fix

a place to keep us up suspects detained as part of the quote war on terror and what too much of the rest of the world want tunnel day was a free pass a place where the u.s. could avoid playing by its own rules rules like the right to a fair trial innocent until proven guilty it is also a place where the harsh interrogation practices and torture came to light angering friends and foes alike and because of this candidate barack obama promised to make some changes listen. want to out of all bets easy close vote was a total restore habeas corpus we're going to leave was shielding the wild plot hole that was storing her or post to the close guantanamo i will follow through on top of the world people's. representatives. and that's where we're going to close their. doors. all right so just a few weeks after coming into office in january two thousand and nine president

obama did sign an executive order mandating the closure of guantanamo bay within the year but what is now in november of two thousand and eleven on him obey continues to be open for business with plans for renovations and nearly two hundred detainees still in custody the miami herald carol rosenberg has no doubt spent more time than any other journalist there and writes that it is the most expensive prison on earth she says the pentagon detention center that started out in january two thousand and two as a collection of crude open air cells guarded by marines in a muddy tent city is today arguably the most expensive prison on earth constant taxpayers eight hundred thousand dollars annually for each of the one hundred seventy one captives by obama administration reckoning that's more than thirty times the cost of keeping a captive on u.s. soil but this is more than just about the money there are other costs the u.s. incurs as well as talk more about this deputy managing editor of truth out of order

jason a poll is here jason in addition to the money what do you see as the high price the u.s. pays to keep the doors of going tunnel by open. well basically it comes down to the fact that where you played the clip of obama stating that you know we're going to restore he be a scorpius. were hypocrites where are you disobey the street and has actually fought every p.b.s. corpus case that has appeared in d.c. corps so you know we're very good at preaching but not practicing what we're preaching so it's integrity it's credibility credibility is is the number one issue right now. and there is a lot of rhetoric there's a lot of promises that have been made certainly obama does not bear all of the blame congress has voted time and again to well withhold funding that would have

that would have allowed some of these trials to military commissions some of the trials rather take place in what is referred to as article three federal courts here in the united states that's what i was going to. you know providing the defense department with the money to shut down guantanamo but again just getting back to you know your question integrity credibility that's what i wanted to say you know president obama needed permission from congress to have suspects tried in federal courts he never got that he also you know got to bring this out because this is another argument that the administration brings up and something that i think is worth looking at president obama arguably learned a lot more once he came into office about you know just getting i think back to the christmas day underwear bomber trained in yemen from what i understand there are quite a few protesters at get no from yemen and that's just one of many examples i mean is it possible that the president didn't have all the information he needed when he made these promises or do you think something else changed. oh i think it's clearly

it's political i think the you know first of all when when obama issued the executive order he halted the military commissions he had a team review of all of these cases and they put together a comprehensive file report for the president saying who can be released and and who should be detained indefinitely which is in and of itself another question that we should be asking as to why but it's political this came down to deal making with senators such as john mccain lindsey graham where they would not get behind certain policies that the president wanted to push forward unless there were promises made that first of all guantanamo would remain open but military commissions would continue so you know i'm not sure if you're asking what

more there is is there some sort of you know deep dark secret i think that for the most part it's it's it's fear mongering and it's politically charged but what about this notion that president obama you know when he made some of these comments did not have access to some of the intelligence did not have you know all the knowledge that he has now i mean could that have been more of a catalyst for changing and why are you think it's all politics. i think it's all politics i don't think that the you know the intelligence first of all is suspect at least with you know some of the detainees we've seen some of these detainees assessment produce these are the documents that were released by wiki leaks earlier this year on all the guantanamo detainees and that makes it very clear that we were holding hundreds of prisoners of detainees. who were were innocent were basically

sold to the u.s. for a bounty and they've been released we have a number of detainees that have since been cleared for release but as you mentioned the incident that took place last christmas with the underwear bomber. pretty much put a. put a wrench if you will in opening up any doors to to let detainees out and the administration is continuing to fight the release. of detainees who you know courts say or should be released because the evidence is suspect and certainly seems like a complete one eighty and as you mentioned we are of course in preparation for the next election politics that's why of course i want to play a few clips from this weekend's debate and then we can talk about. i agree that it was in interrogation technique. and then you would support it is present you would return policy i would return to that policy i don't see it as to

what you i see it as an enhanced interrogation technique if i were president i would be willing to use waterboarding and i think it was very effective to me. and i and i also would like to say that today under brock obama he is allowing the a.c.l.u. to run the cia. all right so very on g.o.p. presidential candidates herman cain and michele bachmann saying that they are in favor of lot of warding it seems there's not a prevailing opinion that what goes on and get low needs to stop talk about this as it relates to you know the future. well it's just remarkable that that first of all that they would be willing to send that message to the rest of the world if they want to support a torture techniques such as waterboarding they should also say that they want to repudiation the convention against torture which the u.s. is that signed. you know i think that there is this notion that.

that waterboarding or any other torture technique is you know has proved useful we still have these debates revolving around the efficacy of torture it's been proven time and again by people who are who who were on the ground who were actually involved in those interrogations but these techniques did not work that these techniques were not used to extract any information but rather it was used to to get that through to basically get the detainees to be come compliant to comply with their interrogators the interrogators had already knew the answers to the questions that they were asking. you know i think that in terms of how it plays in the future it's again it's it's sort of this. tough guy woman scenario i don't even understand it i'm not sure how to how to even respond to to you know

to what they were saying. because again it's it's proven that it has not been effective in in gaining intelligence and we've had people even say that with the death of osama bin ladin. you know the information that was obtained was not through torture was. it was well after you know muhammad was reported or anyone else associated with it i think you bring up an interesting point that these are the message of it's messages being sent to the rest of the world i think these candidates don't have that so much in mind as they do and that's just they're sending to the republican base but it is interesting how that how that translates i want to thank you for coming on the show today weighing in you've done a lot of research on this issue that the managing editor of truth out here jason leopold. well let's go now to the latest in the occupy wall street movements going on around the country this thursday will mark two months since the beginning since

the movement began since people have been camping out in parks organizing protests and demanding a change to the economic and political system in america indeed there have been some changes made mainly a renewed focus on topics like the power of big banks and inequality in america there's also been a bright spotlight shines on police brutality after police in many cities used tear gas rubber bullets protons and riot gear to deal with many protesters badly injuring a few of them and over the weekend police across the country swept through many of those camps victim protesters and arresting dozens of people in portland oregon police encircled became for occupy members have been staying and arrested fifty people who did not comply with that eviction order in st louis missouri about twenty seven people spent the night in jail after refusing to leave the park they have been staying in since october first and in salt lake city one thousand people were taken into custody saturday after police issued an eviction notice and cleared

the park was followed at the death of a man there apparently caused by carbon monoxide poisoning or a drug overdose and a look now at oakland california in many ways open has been the center of the movement other than new york where it started and we've seen police leave peaceful protesters in critical condition and then back off and guess what now they have returned tearing down encampments and removing protesters one by one. our t. is actually on the ground in oakland you sort of stay with us at seven pm all new our producer lucy catherine of will join us from oakland with a firsthand look. oh let's talk about this it appears things are changing and this movement we possibly are seeing a shift oakland mayor jean kwanza as the camp in oakland had to be removed because it was no longer a protest against the financial system and unemployment but it became of the location. repeated violence and this past week even a murder so what's going on here are these changes significant enough to take the

wind out of the sails of this movement or is something major about to happen i want to talk to david de graw in long island new york about this david has not only been a part of this movement since day one he's been calling for a movement like this for more than a year. david let's start with what we saw over the weekend more encampment taken down and this time it seems protesters were a little more compliance winter is right around the corner this be the beginning of the end of the occupy wall street movement. oh absolutely not i mean there's so many people that have so much in brussels movement at this point we aren't like an evolutionary phase of the movement and you know there are certainly the chaps who are the main focus of the crowd you know they're going to evolution or cancer or so areas you know people who don't even analysts amounts and resources whether it's buildings and have you know or office lease all throughout the country you know

part of the story that's missing within a sucky pile movement. protest camps that we can set up and you know part of the reason why these mayors are saying that there's profit once they're the police drove there you're saying these things and to a certain extent it is true because you know a lot of people who can afford their rents you know are cops are taking people who are drug addicts to slow prison and they're sending them to our camps and we have to you can use people weighed in we have been helping them i think you're saying david that police have been sort of escorting drug dealers and people on the streets to the encampment the occupy wall street encampments there are various consistent reports so. here's the need it sounds to spread it out but every time nice try to discredit us that way you know like i was going to say earlier you know people who need medical help people who need psychological care or people who are

grow problems you will need to eat food people who need show there are all coming to the east camps and we are helping them with all of those you know we have problems your medical problems you so pockets you know we're constantly doing our moods you know do the system is broken and creating all us social so you know service time no problems and they're all coming to the forefront at these camps and we heard tressa news this. you know i mean we have an endless amount of people you know even of people within the one percent you know even you know superstar you lists so what reason musicians they're all coming to us and saying how can we help because everyone knows the system is broken and everyone also knows that the politicians who are acting out be there the people who fund their campaigns and you know the politicians there's ninety percent of its time oh it's asians that's more money on the campaign wins the election then up and so now politicians have no

theory of the problem so you just bend over backwards with corporations but through this movement not only are you demonstrating you know under the mainstream far right that there are serious problems in this country but we're also creating new york harbor who lives in you know building towards a sustainable society but a bit of i don't know they have to be here i've asked that i mean as certainly if found like an amazing feat they are able to take these people into the camp and treat them and feed them and help them when that day wasn't the original intent of the event i don't think that they are going to ask you know what is next where is this movement headed you know they're going to lot of comparisons with the occupy wall street movement and the tea party in terms of a cohesive movement calling for change the tea party got several people elected into office i mean what kind of actions are in the works that can turn this from a discussion into actual action. i disagree with you i think it is the sense of

this movement and tell people you know i mean yes we are protesting a broken corrupt system absolutely but at the same time we also have to create your heritage and that's a very difficult process but we are beginning that process you know what that's what it is going disarmament over let's make that ransom you know i've certainly beginning i won't make demands and i still feel like there needs to be some cohesion and strategy moving forward but you know at the same time we also have to demonstrate that there is an alternative but now we can see clearly these rules because you know people are suffering economically just tajiri and that that's what has built this route. you know occupy wall street has always been referred to as a leaderless movement as you've said time and time again but i'm wondering i mean don't you think it's time for someone to step up to leave you know a strong charismatic leader to take occupy wall street to the next level because without that if seems difficult they can continue. well you know that there might

be various spokespeople that you know to lead in this movie you have let me try and stay out you know you know i want to really speak for the movement as a whole that is ninety nine percent of population here are you know they're ok news across the political spectrum so if you try to speak to the movement as a whole it's really going to have serious missions but i think if you call it starts leaking you know be careful who i mean in a way they're presently the public's and people who are actually doing a hard work in leading by example and you know you. know i don't want calls procedure work you know you don't have people who can and interact with people want to harm a mass scale back and help inspire. a vigorous thing if people start saying stuff like this that resonates with the public and resonates with an members of them and then what do you mean if i mean why hasn't that happened yet why isn't there i

think it's i think it is happening really in a very essential oils matter no i mean the movie but you know even though we've been pushing on this issue three years now when it really just began on september seventeenth and have such a big movement you can't really it's. you know all of sudden there's going to be a handful of people who are now going to be on message on point the liberal yes tragedy that is happening you know that there's been you know thousands upon thousands of interviews and speeches and you know there's this isn't the sash roys process it's an organic evolution and you know what we'll just have to see how long that holds her thing you know you will see you see various people who can speak well and resonate with you at and they've been doing it and you'll see it on a decrease in large scale as we move more into the average american's hearts and minds sales they will just have to see how this one front so as of now from where

you know and i know you've been extremely involved. you thought by many to be one of the leaders here i mean as of now is there not a plan in place to take this movement to the next level to actually see i mean as i mentioned earlier you have seen a change in discussion even on the mainstream media there's now talk about the inequality gap in america this is talk of didn't see before so this is moving in the right direction bank of america took away their five dollar fees who knows whether that had anything at all to do with your movement but it was a positive step however is there a plan in place for real action for real change to the way the political and economic system works in this country. those plans are certainly being developed you know who we are in any rigid plans we don't know how things are going to fall that it's important that we remain a kind of fluid flexible in our plans but yes there's a lot of sticking point there's a rather plans being developed but ultimately it's you know who puts a lot of the best player on the best don't you know people will gravitate towards

that organic natural process and we'll get there are only talking will get there you know i suspect there we go dark. and you know i was oh well you know people from every walk of life even a list celebrity used. top politicians i mean these people people that are well within the top one percent lawyers you know they want to help everyone sees that we have a proven system your currency is a businessman who really is getting to address these issues and you can be addressed so i mean you know but chancellor that was so depressed before september seventeenth but now i feel so optimistic for once in a few years that battle. you know we are moving in the russians and it will take some time we're pushing and we're quite you know we're getting let me just one more question and say that i know that we've spoken to here in the past on a variety of subjects and i want to talk to you

a little bit about what we saw over the weekend i mean we talk about this economic system that's not working for a lot of people that's one of the biggest gripes of occupy wall street protesters i want to ask you about what happened over the weekend at the apec summit in honolulu the major tension between the u.s. and china any thoughts on sort of what comes next in a very major majorly changing global economy. well this is the new movement you know i believe the hardest thing was much harder. back reviews on obama. world leaders apex predators you suppose. he played forty five minutes of pro are. called out all the little years there were you there and it was this person who you know you know mistletoe out. and you know this is the you know you would be specialized you had all that you were certain still set stepping up and figuring out how to fight back against the system and this works our artists need

a brilliant song we are. just very inspired but he delivered that residence right. there i think you're right in fact i'm so sorry we're out of time author and journalist david de gras in new york city thank you very much well let's talk more about china and essentially about what was a little bit of a tug of war over who should get to write the next chapters in the global economic rule book over the weekend as we just mentioned at the asia pacific economic cooperation summit both president obama and hu jintao that pertain table together certainly had some differing ideas about how to move forward the u.s. has been highly critical about china's trade policies and their currency practices and what it is as a to slow appreciation of the one china's president hu jintao responded saying first of all the u.s. trade deficit deficit and unemployment rate are not caused by any one exchange and also insisted on more influence from beijing as as

a growing power are to course on oksana boyko spend the weekend in honolulu for the conference and laying out some of the differences that have piled up between these two countries. if there is any us state where the occupy movement has little chance it's probably hard why despite the high concentration of for the chickens and wall street big wigs socializing at the apec summit the only place people are willing to occupy here on mass at the beach is this one exception these pictures tourists are against greed and social injustice they're against economic inequality and they're against china. i was. who incidentally the mood at the podium a little hostile i think we can benefit from fred which one and i want certainly to continue cultivating. a constructive relationship with the trying his government. but we're going to continue to be firm in insisting

that they operate by the same rules rules rules and again rules as a country that's been ruling the roost for decades the united states has never been shy of policing authors but as china's g.d.p. continues at a nine percent a year against it and a half percent growth in the u.s. the reprimand seems to be internally driven conformity is one of the top value can be trying to build a wall also reflected in the country's political and economic policy that's not that china doesn't play by the rules that's actually quite the opposite but the united states things to have an issue really is that increasingly china rules and that they pretty much washington would prefer to keep it out as the u.s. president hailed his new free trade asia pacific pact as a win win to boost trade in the region some in china to the as a predator effort to change rules. free trade tend to be. in the

eyes of the beholder. it's free for you but protection for me. i get. my precious industries that well there are national interests so it's always at loma. as the euro crisis continues metastasizing throughout the world and china is asked to shoulder the load many analysts say the west should keep in mind its old adage about he who pays the piper china is really in the driver's seat in many respects and this is coming at an awkward time for the united states because the united states is clearly a declining power at the same time and it's having trouble adjusting to what that means many chinese proverbs are difficult to translate into english if those about money usually have exact equivalence one of them is money makes the world go round the concept experience will be familiar to washington and progressively so to

beijing it's one of my canard a bit apec summit in honolulu and that doesn't for now we will be back in a half hour and christine for.

see.