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to. play and it contains. the some of. the a glowing welcome across our computer all about is it deja vu all over again the united nations nuclear watchdog the i.a.e.a. claims in a new report that iran is moving ever closer to possessing a nuclear weapon critics of the report claim nothing new or even damning has been revealed nonetheless the drumbeat of war against iran can be heard loud and clear. the utmost the solo.

to cross-talk iran's nuclear program i'm joined by mark levine in washington he's a senior fellow with the truman national security project and talk radio host from rock to university in new jersey we have hooshang amirahmadi he is a professor of international development and policy and in london we crossed to patrick case he's a journalist and political commentator all right gentlemen this is crosstalk that means you can jump in. anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first we're calling this program. appropriate i think rightfully so absolutely concerns over iran's nuclear program have been growing steadily for more than a decade with western countries like the united states and israel expressing suspicion that the program could be used to develop nuclear weapons with a recent report by the you want to tom agency these concerns could be nearing a diplomatic turning point record issued last week has unloaded with some believed to be a trove of intelligence showing that up until two thousand and three to iran was pursuing weapons related activities including research on nuclear warheads it is the first report of its kind that claims to offer explicit support for allegations

that have so far uncorroborated for us no reason to believe what i. say especially because it. confirms the. concerns that were already existing and were already recognized by the u.n. . the u.s. joined by france and britain are now considering a range of options in addition to the four rounds of sanctions already in place against iran options that israel has warned could include a military strike meanwhile iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad's has been defined promising not to go to that pressure and calling the findings fraudulent. the american so far but you could if you keepers and given them to the. end he speaks here and there about these papers why don't they even publish one report on the united states why don't they publish even one report on the front of the united

states and. iran maintains that its program is meant to obtain nuclear energy for a look at your city only but the u.s. and its western allies are worried a nuclear armed iran could lead to a regional arms race and poses a direct threat to israel. what most people do not realize that even china and india that are considered less enthusiastic for sanctions are extremely wary because in aggressive iran nuclear iran can threaten hundreds of millions of people in these countries. however because the report fails to state whether iran's efforts have resumed or tapered off since two thousand and three there's still no concrete reason to think it causes a genuine threat likewise the report does not indicate whether iran possesses weapons grade enriched uranium or the capacity to produce it to that end talk of military strikes could be premature unless justifying this type of action was the

reports original purpose and that is what everybody is talking about well let's talk about what everyone's talking about. university. had a little bit of time now almost a week now to digest it is it all or is it alarming take a side. really i mean i read the report several times compared to the previous report there is very little new industry a lot of. statements a lot of accusations that really doesn't hold after all. it's really violate its own law transparency it does not side the sources as used to put this together. it is claiming that something was happening back in two thousand and two before two thousand and thirty but it is not really saying that after that. it has any information it may or may.

is used over and over that it may may be developing a explosive device and anywhere he talks about the military is asian of this programs the nuclear programs it's basically uses the water possibility possibility possibility ok missile site is one of the cities because. mark do you think that hype. the report is already thousand pages of intelligence from more than ten countries and it shows indeed. not just that iran is four fifths of the way to developing a highly enriched uranium program but that it has fourteen separate designs for installing the nuclear warhead on its medium range missiles that can reach virtually everywhere in the middle east no one can dispute that the iranian nuclear program is out there for nuclear least of which the leaders of iran who keep saying they want to annihilate israel saudi arabia scared after all this is the country

that just tried to kill the saudi ambassador in the states and a terrorist attack that this will be too nice a letter your that's a ridge that's alleged ok. it seems to me gentlemen i think i've got to go to patrick first before we really jump in here patrick in london it seems to me and i'm going to take a sign here but it seems to me that instead of really looking it around everyone's looking at the i.a.e.a. and it's cast a huge shadow over itself because if we compare it to the last report over the last head of the nuclear watchdog this one seems amazingly politicized and is as mark pointed out ten countries provided information to this report but those countries are not mentioned whatsoever. no i think really this report does go to show just how political the i.a.e.a. is and i really want to go back to fundamental ceasars of really ask what is this officious u.n. affiliated party doing in iran in the first place i don't think it has any real business i would say from the outset really i think weapons inspections and we see

this going from two thousand and three to now really playing a much broader broader role in the way in which western countries now intervene in in countries such as around then i think really what you get is the wife's worst of both worlds he gets kind of western intervention but they do it in a very dishonest way so they try to do in this new true kind of way through using these kind of arms like the u.n. like the i a to go in and basically poke their noses around suffering countries and interfere and i think they should back out completely and actually i think it's many ways this kind of intervention who put on hold a lot of the uprisings that we've seen in the middle east and could potentially prevent the arab spring from developing any further ok mark you seem very disapproving go right ahead. definitely i look at i.a.e.a. has performed a tremendous function here and it's very careful you should be very careful to know this is the united nations body for example very clearly said that iraq did not

have weapons of mass destruction and on that basis many americans like myself very much opposed the iraq war and now they're telling us that iran is hell bent under developed a nuclear weapon and i think i believe them and if you worried about the arab spring if you worried about the persian people the people who are doing the green revolution we know that if their government develops a nuclear weapon there is no way they will finally achieve democracy freedom for women and rights in iran lesson enough we had nuclear weapons our people wouldn't achieve let's separate ok we shall go ahead jump in mark let's yeah i think let's let's make the distinction between it on domestic issues and it's international matters very clear here and i've asked you to any and people's business they want overthrow the regime or otherwise that's a different business you're talking about iran's nuclear program first let me say that i am against the plan as asian nuclear programs and you know i mean i mean for for military purposes in the middle east including israel and including iran and

pakistan and india and elsewhere let's let's let's put that on the table but the point here is that this particular report that we are talking i've created more commotion and sensation that it's really our first in real terms of it i think. as i said it's rules of transparency it last can clean and green and tell the war who these sources are what the countries are provided the resources and beyond that i think. if i.e. airlie is interested in coming to an end to a clean solution with iran it's really hard to put a more mr lovecraft's land grab foreign minister of russia he has an incredible plan workable plan on the table for the united states and by the last one we know for a fact that iran has accepted this basic plan goals of that plan that us. in

fact within that plan iran accepted to go along and approved the additional protocol after your ok ok if i was trying to quit if we could very well i'm sorry one question if i'm going to mark here i mean what the new york times reported that the head of the i.a.e.a. you actually went to the white house and presented his findings twelve days before it was released i mean why does the us get to check it off first i mean it's the i.a.e.a. the united nations body why does it why is only one party given access to it or is it the check make sure the the outcome is right i mean it does look a bit suspicious here. i don't see as much as much suspicious when i look at it if anyone's going to take military action it will probably be the united states and that's why the united states has the strongest encouragement to seek sanctions so that we don't have to rely on the last resort which is military action president obama ran for president said that iran will not become a nuclear power by either president i will keep his promise or he won't but the

i.a.e.a. wants to make sure i think the united states's is on board and i don't think that process is a big deal i do want to answer a chance point though about domestic interest in iran and the reason why they're important is that whatever you think of pakistan india israel these are democracies these are countries controlled by their people and iran you have a country that a government that very much imposes on its people the persian people want freedom they don't like the state or ship they don't like to have women treated as second class citizen markets are largely worthless regardless of the phrases like i asked my last question before we go to the break ok all that's all nice and find what you said about democracy because the nuclear program in iran is actually quite popular with the population well it depends i think it's hard to write with the allocation of it's very very difficult to trust polls the idea of the libyan people are quite happy to put our feet did not have nuclear weapons and i think that if the iranian government has nuclear weapons it's a really sad day for the persian people above all ok if you want to just go ahead first bashing the british are very strong that's what i was very struck by the fact

the nazis very happy to speak on behalf of the arabian people i think they should speak on their behalf places rise up and over free are their own thing over it and the government and the belly and i think that i think it's a state of war you have played here at the very time that you've been here he comes right back to you after a short break imagine a short break we'll continue our discussion on iran state party. who can keep you still. going to come. forward. well. science technology innovation all the list the immense from around russia we've got the huge earth covered.

you can see. live. live welcome back to cross talk you know about a minute we're talking about iran and its nuclear program. live can. still live. ok patrick i want to go back to you because you were i had to last point to make it on the first half of the program one of the things i think is very interesting here is that and i'll be a little bit provocative and i want to see how you guys react to it but it really you looking at the report it's not really an analysis of nucular iran's nuclear program it's a case to go to war against it. well i do think that the i.a.e.a. and as i said kind of other kind of weapons inspectors but these are playing an increasingly important role in effect simply paving the way towards potential war i think i was very evident with the iraq war with the formulation of the dossier i

know that the i a directive over that but the directive to form a director general hans blix certainly was kind of did a lot of the inspections in iraq in there and headed back up but i guess it fundamentally i just wanted to make this point i do think you know the fact that the u.s. were given kind of privileged access for anyone else to this reports the fact that actually the i.a.e.a. is not in the independent but does alternately just answer to the u.n. and also it's a kind of a banner the fact that actually this is being considered in the first place is a delay just to make things so it's an international body can start to earth actively poking its nose in other countries business. recommend the imposition of sanctions and effectively start to talk has not started to be on behalf of the radian people and say this isn't in their interests well actually they should be able to talk about it if you said well let's talk about who's in who's it in whose interest this is all about right before the report came out mark i want to talk to you in washington and we had a scandal coming out of the israeli cabinet about netanyahu trying to get members

of his own coalition government on board for an attack on iran and then the report comes out i mean maybe that psychopathy or something like that but it certainly can't be a coincidence and israel has been itching for the u.s. to do bomb due to destroy the nuclear program that is there in iran for a long long time now i mean this is coming to one head. well first of all silage presume the i.a.e.a. is a troll anyone as i noted in iraq what i made very clear against the united states government being controlled by president bush that iraq did not have nuclear or any weapons of mass destruction bush went to war anyway so the i.a.e.a. is not a tool of united states look a war is coming unless iran's nuclear weapons program stop it's that simple and maybe from israel or maybe from united states where from europe with your major speech you're assuming you're assuming it is either please you or if you do sanctions now ok you sure you know it's going to get going writers university go head. that went against mr bush in iraq was headed

by mr day and that very mr about id in an interview in time magazine flatly said that iran has never had as he is concerned a nuclear program designed claud militarisation so the same that went against mr bush the same now said that iran doesn't have that military edition program this is a complete no the other say i.e. as you know i'll use your answer just patrick god i imagine you are a person trying to be in this to channel men what's going to shatter in london there what we're saying is kind of scaremongering here basically war is imminent unless starts building nuclear weapons well it's not also ministry for the u.s. and israel to decide whether or not they decide to play to play war on iran the fact that it does build nuclear weapons doesn't necessarily mean they're going to use them and who is it really for the us israel the west to decide who or who

doesn't develop nuclear weapons anyway it's only washington before suffering countries to make those decisions i just want to make this point so i think what we're seeing here really is a modern form of colonialism from these countries they're using weapons inspections agencies u.n. access or to keep down these countries disappearing unruly not trustworthy or possessing these kind of weapons and i think that's really problematic if you still have all the formula or a phrase. good thing it was a radio you know arab emirates egypt turkey you're going to have all these countries develop corrections you're going to have a nuclear bomb and let me let me jump in here you know i mean that the only please let me jump in here on america gentlemen let me jump in here mark if i can go to you and i think. very short of one sentence from the report today to iran has not provided the agency access to the heavy water stored if you're in your rainy and conversion facility in order to take samples now that's an accusation here but if

you check but heavy water production is not covered by iran safeguards agreement i mean it's saying it's iran is doing things that it should be doing but it's not true i mean the fact the matter is there are certain things that don't fall under agreements that around a sign but are still accuse of not being cooperate you mean it's a blatant mistake rather report here on his side nuclear nonproliferation. and it's also so i guess it's also something i say starts agreement of additional the most nice nuclear program in history. well except iran is not allowing i scrutinize the program look if you don't have a peaceful program originally they said they were going to take the lower in which an iranian ship or to russia for processing that it could only be used for peaceful purposes whatever happened to the idea what iran recognizes they've actually shipped it off they could develop the nuclear warheads the i.a.e.a. has made very clear in a very very detail and if you haven't read those appendixes in the fourteen pages

they show the design of the iranian warhead and how the nuclear bomb could be put in the warhead i mean i think you're living in a dream world and the thing is is that the other countries in the region it's not just israel and saudi arabia and the u.a.e. and egypt and turkey and soon you have a massive nuclear arms race in the middle east with a lot of terrorism you will there's not one country could get i don't know if i just want to show you this is one country in the region that turns have nuclear weapons and it's israel go ahead hooshang rocker's university go ahead first first first iran has. responded in detail those called studies that dealt with the building a nuclear device or weapons of the military itself that has been already. has those import nations that creation why is iranian nuclear weapon. is structured the russian now that's the strength of the society all i said i mean

what we're going to do i cannot sit and watch you go and why don't you just give them up my friend my friend you don't you cannot tell a country not to do any is studies for any of these that interest at the fact that they tell a country a lot of the illegal weapons building get them out i mean it's all done dennis of course is guilty of the lies in iraq the only energy julian gentlemen not only that's a very good question hanging out here talking on everybody patrick i am a factor let me go to patrick in london ok look i mean there are thousands of troops are involved american troops on both sides of iran there is a very. a strong american fleet to the south ok and it's being threatened constantly with attack and even invasion so i mean if i were part of the political elite and to run i would probably want to nuclear weapon because you know if you don't then you fall down the path of what iraq libya i mean no wonder north korea is going down that path i mean i'm just saying that countries act rationally in their own national interests. yeah i think they too i think in many ways it

wouldn't necessarily be in iran's interest to develop a new home because i mean that's as they point out of the times they had one of the few that obviously they could be completely obliterated i israel and the us successor i think what we're seeing here to an extent is an erosion of kind of moral authority from the west in many ways they now feel the need. for inspectors to go into these countries and the fact they build up this evidence base allows them to intervene in one way or another why can't you just americans lack of confidence i think in many ways it's no longer feels it has a moral authority i mean but even so i think that moral authority is very problematic what we're doing here is when we say oh there might be an arms race over the u.a.e. may want to develop nuclear weapons other countries in that region might see if they say the only people who are civilized enough to possess nuclear weapons or this kind of power are the disappearance in the west i think it's a very proud country imagine not one of the three in the world is actually using them for one is actually used in the united states is used as weapons grade exactly

going to the only country that if you mark go ahead and get our crew here in washington i think the mistake that our cricket who shot is make are making is there conflating the iranian government with the country of iran and they say iran iran iran is if the government represented the people of iran they do not the people are very much trying to overthrow their dictatorship the persian people happen to be some of the most progress turned pro israel pro democracy pro women's rights people in the middle east but they are being put down by their own government and i fear that there are. using nuclear weapons to put their own people down democracies having nuclear weapons is one thing when educator ship has them it leads to a far more dangerous world who shall go ahead that's just all right you have mark just first all right but these please understand that is there is no persian people people in persian are still is a small. community there so that's not persian that's number one second save those iranian people are also on friday. those iranian people the same

sort of iran is how the regime he's anxious that they are suffering from american sanctions from israeli war they are suffering from the regime yes you are absolutely right the point here is this i believe if the united states wanted iran to build nuclear weapons it is trying to do its best to do it and what the u.s. is doing what israel is are doing are really pushing this damage of public war between a zation i think there is a lot out there exactly of what is america partly that their action let me explain to let me explain that mr lover of the foreign minister of russia has put a plan on the table the plan says let's work a deal between the five plus one and iran on an incremental basis and then which iran will suspend its illicit activities and the u.s. will lift sanctions now part of the plan iran has accepted accepted to ratify

the additional protocol it has accepted over who should i want iran here with its nuclear materials. where they promised they would. it's good be part of that they have. to send that it's better to have you know it was i shall they have accepted any of the right gentlemen gentlemen really scientifically gentlemen were factually running out of time here patrick i want to give you the last word in the program let me say this because alice. is this just a drumbeat for war. i'm quite culp's not by mark i have something that he can speak on behalf of the iranian people you know better than they can you know he seems and instead of the guardian guardian of the iranian people he can't be seen. or heard in the states and actually overthrow the government themselves i think any intervention in the west like i'm sure ron is going to raise them to put any kind of potential uprising or arab spring in iran on the whole all right gentlemen

gentlemen we're running out of time we'll see where this goes many thanks my guest today in london washington and it records university in new jersey and thanks your viewers for watching as you are keep to next time remember. the. story. on. a very warm welcome to you this is your news today protesters on wall street since they have. a decent cancel your chance the chance to say it's a good book makes the status of the human experiments get

a little. business run you support it just goes to be trying to censor global economy and its arcane flimsiness financial temple. to maintain our confidence in markets and economics wants to be seems way to balance his recession look even the nations close to collapsing it's like looking for clues for. something else with the labor think and feel little thing is us crash and imminent . seem to exist like close to the decision in st the ice cold spots me i'm just programs increase the total economy. mission. couldn't take three months for charges three. major months three. three stooges three.