video. of you. three thirty pm on wednesday here in moscow with headlines now a new low in relations following a nato air strike which killed more than. play no part in a key international. close of supply route through. britain orders the evacuation of its embassy and warns of serious consequences. this follows london's

decision to impose more sanctions on the country over its nuclear program. cost over egypt's parliamentary elections protesters continue their military rulers to step down a record number of hopefuls have turned up to vote in the country for the first time since president mubarak was ousted. with putting up roadblocks along a disputed border despite nato forces. he's imposing trade. do stay with us here coming your way next people. discuss whether those suffering from obesity should be forced to pay a so-called fat tax on the crosstalk right here on our.

well for. science technology innovation all these developments from around russia we've got the future covered. hello and welcome to cross talk peter lavelle taxing people in the name of health is one of the aims of the so-called fat tax governments all over the world and throughout history have adopted policies to influence behavior in the name of public health should food be the subject of a sin tax like alcohol and tobacco. cross-talk the so-called fat tax i'm joined by mimi roth in new york she is president of the

national action against obesity in los angeles we have robert ferguson he is c.e.o. of diet free life and serves on the presidential task force on obesity for the national medical association and in manchester we cross to bill bradley he is the london chapter leader of the western a price foundation or i focuses cross-ties that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first tell us more about what is called the fact tax well first i must say it's quite ironic to see one of the least obese countries in the world be the first to implement a measure but irony aside let's figure out what this tax is all about the law which went into effect in denmark in early october levies a surcharge on foods high in saturated fats all with good intent politicians claim it will help to reduce cardiovascular disease obesity and diabetes at the political level there was a high degree of consensus for this law that was wide agreement about trying to improve the average danish life about trying to improve the health of the danish people. but outside of politics the measure is finding few allies first of all take

years before empirical evidence can prove that the tax not only causes measurable changes in behavior but also translates into tangible health improvements at the same time studies have shown a positive correlation between income level and better diet quality which means that the fat tax will hit the poor first and foremost a daunting prospect for those already mired in the economic crisis critics of the approach also say there are more efficient alternatives such as taxing people who already are overweight a practice often deemed unethical and controversial and for that reason avoided meanwhile countries like the us which has the highest obesity rating in the world has been instead trying to target diet habits and long children who want to get parents information so they can make good decisions we want to improve the quality of food in our schools and we want to make food more affordable and accessible but if all else fails there's already talk that the u.s. along with other western countries could follow denmark's example and who knows

after all research has shown that taxing smoking for example does reduce its consumption then mark now expects to rake in some two hundred thirty three million dollars in fat tax revenues money has promised to spend on health programs and maybe it's something to think about amid those absurd measures something to think about ok i'd like to first go to mimi in new york what's wrong with the fat tax because are the danes on to something because you know i used to be a smoker and i quit smoking for health reasons but if i lived in the united states i probably would have quit because it's just too damn expensive to buy cigarettes so you know we have governments all the time influencing behavior why not do it when it comes to obesity. i'm actually all for the tax the reality is did mark has a ten percent obesity rate that's the perfect time to address obesity ninety percent of people who lose weight do not keep it off it is very hard to reverse obesity the only way to reverse that trend is to prevent it so it's the perfect timing for denmark to make big measures to reverse to reverse the trend and get in

front of any escalating obesity numbers and i'll tell you what any survey around the world the best looking people always come up to be that day and they must be doing something right robert what do you think about that every i mean if a tax about the best way of controlling obesity because we had mimi there saying we should get out in the in the front of the game here before it happens i mean there's so many countries especially in the industrialized west where we're decades behind the ball here i mean what's the best way of controlling it into a lot of people are saying that taxes are doing it maybe because like i said with alcohol and tobacco it seems to change people's behavior well here's the deal and this is you know some coming from someone who's in the trenches you do not want to have a fat tax and this is why number one in order to attack somebody you must identify what makes that product or food unhealthy so my big question around the globe is who are the people responsible for tell me what is actually help the in what is not

healthy that's number one so once we can figure that out and i can't wait to meet these people who are actually categorizing the food as healthy there must talk from there and we also know that when you tackle it isn't. it is in food by the way that's a very interesting point of philip but i want to go to philip here i mean we can get everyone here on the panel philip you know it's interesting thing is that we need experts to tell us what's healthy what's not healthy i mean i think even we all know if we go to mcdonald's every single day that's not going to be healthy for you ok i mean that's common knowledge that's not a mystery. well we. go ahead philip and we believe the government made the mistake of demonizing traditional nutrient dense foods and fats from grass fed animals mcdonald's doesn't provide that you know these affirm factory farm animals which have a completely different nutrient. provision. instead big government have

replaced natural fats in traditional foods with excess carbohydrate toxic margery and vegetable oils and we actually believe that these what are causing obesity and disease so a fat tax will actually cause more obesity we believe what mimi what you know if you imagine actually just just at the british government prior to nine hundred eighty three promoted a carbohydrate restricted diet to encourage weight loss and they suddenly turned around when they adopted the low fat agenda ok robert what do you think about that you were chuckling there you agree or disagree with that. why i agree with the fact that trans fats in the. interior interest or five fats are unhealthy is something that we all benefit to avoid but at the same time it blows my mind that people look at fast food they are the man we condemn it here's the reality our clients big mags eat fillet or fish is fries and go from your far left to right as far as fast food

fine dining organic or not and they've all been able to reduce your waistline and expand their life i am talking about elevated cholesterol we've brought it down so it's not so much the why. and if you haven't already and the only enemy here go ahead be me go ahead jump in at the point of the program. look here is here is a. guy who is nine the you cannot you cannot solve today's problems using the mindset that created the problem you're coming from a diet mentality and a diet mentality is not was going. save people i just want to say never. again and so going you have. time identifying with the challenges the motional challenges that people are faced with then i. speak through is there a reason that you don't see where you. are they are showing people how they can

literally be successful regards of their economic situation or their cultural identity you're the one who is placing judgment on people and stopping them from being able to maximize life based on their situation and circumstances and that my friend is what we define as wellness meeting people where they are and showing them how to make it work so as education is going to you anyway knows we're talking about anymore. talk about that i come where you're going to. go ahead we've got new york i come i come from a long line interview so you know my mother my father my aunts my uncles my grandparents you know and i know just how difficult it is to maintain health i run four miles a day i watch what i eat i do not call that going on a diet i just call that being responsible about what i eat i think that what we all have to do is figure out what kinds of foods we can eat that allow us to maintain health and it's not just about life expectancy it's about being well for the length

of your life if you are sick or like my grandmother who has not gotten out of bed in four years not even to go to the bathroom she lives in a twenty four hour care home she's now in renal failure all because of obesity i've seen my entire family suffer this i do know what i'm talking about it is about not just a fat tax you're right let's get you know let's look at the high sugar foods to people need to eat in a way they can maintain healthy for the length of their life life and all those other words you're using i think you lost us on when you got hyperbolic the reality is it's very different very. well in this environment to control our impulses but we have to control our sex impulses we have to control other impulses like and we also have to learn to control our food impulses food is a wonderful thing but we can't be completely out of control with food all the time and industry and lobbyist want to keep us out of control at all times with what do

you want me. i want to. leave just. because i like to address the sugar issue we're concerned. targeting sugar will encourage artificial sweeteners and these actually can induce food cravings by creating an chill in response and. aspartame a particularly toxic this is produced from g.m.o. bacteria and it breaks down into formaldehyde and methanol in the gut and we're going to see a lot more this but the ironic thing about the. government's nutritional guidelines one of the most ironic things is over half of the calories proposed from carbohydrates in the body breaks these all down into sugars and the only use of sugar in the diet really is energy and we've got excess carbohydrates in the body is putting this on the waist in the bottom everywhere you don't want it to be because we're just overloaded with carbohydrates through these dietary guidelines

ok robert if you're right if the simple carbohydrates are exactly right complex carbohydrates like that symbols are a good thing but it's those simple carbohydrates that are very troubling. actually . when you have truth because one of the problems with starchy carbon are you know you're actually have more calories you're off topic i'm not promoting starchy i'm not. i'm not promoting starchy all right i want to i want to go to robert before we go to the break go ahead robert you said we're off topic go ahead. tell you i'll tell we're talking a lot of fat tax we all want people to be well and to live their best life that's what i do every day and it sounds like both of these people are are advocating the same thing but the reality is we do not want to tax people for food again who is determining what makes a food healthy and i'm healthy that's the person i want to know and as a climatologist i can't wait to have that one on one conversation all right we're going to know you're a west near where you go to

a short break and after that you're able continue our discussions on this on tax day with our team. and if you. still. want. magine assets. phone watches you know every single mom. and waiting for you to stumble. i saw a man with a video camera so i moved over and he phoned me some of the you know we realized there were following everyone from early in the morning this was. the only chance to get rid of him. just to reveal him.

me devil operation on r.g.p. . if you. please. welcome back to rostock i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing fatty food

taxation. and. ok me me and i to go back to you in new york well one night when the fat tax is mentioned a lot of people claim that it aids to support this proportionately hurts the poor because they have fewer choices they have less time to work at their hourly workers and in many cases i mean i was brought up in america there's not a great deal of not maybe better now but when i was growing up knowledge about nutrition is very very little if you're a working class family and you don't have much united earning well you don't have good health conditions i mean you fall into this trap of not eating healthy food because number one it's relatively cheap. but it but you know what's expensive being sickly for decades you know it's expensive having diabetes to type two diabetes for decades that's what's really expensive eating broccoli black b. maybe some brown rice not expensive drinking water instead of sweetened drinks not

expensive it's a myth that it is so expensive to eat reasonably it what is costing us in suffering and in money is that we are bringing health this health crisis onto ourselves a full three quarters of our seven hundred fifty billion dollar health bill is due to our lifestyle choices and we know as we've seen with higher taxes on tobacco and in denmark they've already been taxing candy and they've eliminated or minimized trans fat they have had a positive response we know in the u.s. as we do the taxes on tobacco the higher the taxes go the consumption goes down so there is nothing wrong with taxing soda there's nothing wrong with taxing the necessary ubiquitous products that when consumed do not promote health we're not talking about food we're talking about junk food really ok what we're over what about that because i mean if you're going to go well go ahead because i mean again

stressed the point here is that you know disproportionately poor people don't have access to high quality food and it's just a fact it's a fact of life ok and there's a lot of lack of knowledge to even if you want to eat well you might not be able to afford it exactly you just hit the nail on the here the key here is that you want to meet people. this is where mimi is totally missing the boat and that's because she is coming from a diet mentality i agree that broccoli is ideal i recommend it all the time but the same time i have clients who you know they are concentrating on the fact that their food is subsidized therefore when they go to their food bank they want to learn how to eat the foods they have access to and i've been able to shoulder. and how they actually do that and good grades with their overall health and as a result of the knowledge in feeling better about where they are then they're in a better position to get a better job to have more money so it's education that i want to promote and not so

much taxing people for lack of education. that's what we do in the i think we are very good when he's a little less sure you should let philip go ahead go ahead. you know it's all about education and you know you need freedom of choice in order to be able to educate anybody about anything and this gets rid of freedom of choice but. there is no really i don't know who doesn't know that water is healthy feel if you want to do you. know safely in the diet. that's not where it's not you know we don't need to be awash in battery fat almost everyone in the night is america in just way too much saturated fat may not be true in every notion but in the most developed nations there is. saturated fat when you go west in price has a specific agenda to promote animal fat we all know that so i think that you come with a bias to say that animal fat is you know something that everyone would want to talk

about say that we think a good hour every day. well let's take it let's just take one of your points about controlling sexual abuse well the sex hormones are produced from cholesterol we've got to. tell me about your actions around i know you say sex hormones are produced from cholesterol and we infertility is just off the charts right now. and the big question. and animal fats there are exactly what children need to grow healthy and strong there are what the elderly need the brain is more than sixty percent. restraint seeing. and we're not here for you know having. ok these schools in which i was. not getting this nutrient dense foods which they used to eat and were telling me not to eat ok. well i mean i love his

passion but the focus here is on us should we or do we advocate you know people being taxed based on the foods that they eat and i say no and i say that because education is key to meet people where they are and then as a result of that learning curve they'll be in a position where they can make the choices that are going to work best for them that's what it comes down to i mean we say the writers tell the other i don't care i'm saying these guys are all ok i mean if i can go to you i mean you want to make it let's make them where they are ok i was i think we would all agree well if you really thought it was ok i think we would all agree that obesity is an epidemic ok in the end why i mean i know where they are and guess what i mean it's arrogant and know why they will say well he doesn't realize all right only so he sent a recently appointed is my point is when we hear a word like epidemic that's a national international emergency now are we doing things to meet that emergency because for goodness sake i mean if you walk in all across the united states and i

don't see if you see so much here in russia do i see younger people getting bigger and bigger because of the imported western diet so i mean what are these what is the agenda because if this is turning into such a health disaster which it is as we've been pointed out on this program what has to be done without the government always being taking the lead i mean if we do it through schools family religion what we me first. all of the above and you know what we need to stop concentrating on the people who are already overweight and obese we need to consecrate and concentrate on the zero preparedness e to age five group it is about obesity prevention we need to do everything we can to stop mentoring a new fat kid every single day every child that in the last few years who has become obese that's on our watch we've all known better for many years now just how dangerous transplants are high sugar consumption sweetened drinks and yet every day more and more children become obese it's about pre-payment seed age five we need to

take all of our funds all of our energy and concentrate on that segment if we want to reverse obesity rather what do you know that america's been doing was. right for america has been doing this since nine hundred seventy five promoting. a high carbohydrate diet and they've been pushing it precisely at each group i don't know what i say. people are getting more peace. i know you're talking about taxes to enforce what they're already trying to push and that's going to make more of this i'm ok robert what do you think about that philip philip in the united states you are generalizing so that's not what we're advocating and pushing so maybe you have to go to the u.s. government as an arts or what i mean what the u.s. is you're going to go there i'm talking about. ok so very clearly the united states are not following the guidelines of a of the government the reality is we need a methodology and the methodology that is going to work begins with education it

keeps coming back to that i believe that everybody needs love and thereby needs help and so i'm going to say let's focus on zero to five i'm all about us focus on the individuals who are the ones who are the leaders and when you work with the leaders like the parents and the parents to make it work for them then kids always do when they see her parents do not so much what their parents tell them soul is not about going to the schools it's not. enough it's about meeting people and look and when i say meet people where they are been that is i mean a person where they are that it takes compassion of me me to be able to do that which what i'm getting from you you're definitely lacking and i don't mean it to be insulting but you're truly missing their whole point people are they are is caring and that's why i'm fine i need the help that i was you know he made. who has me in me who has me me helped to reduce their waistline i want to hear how mimi has been

able to make a big impact on helping people that's what i want to hear see in these answers this is turning into your program so go right ahead. well there was here and also solution i certainly i certainly have testified on behalf of calories the list listings on many boards of people have more information i testified on behalf of the soda tax i've changed school food i've been involved with getting the. supply in america i get countless e-mails and phone calls every day from the people that i've helped i do not put people on diets i've never advocated anyone going on a diet diet simply means the kind of food we eat we all have a diet we all eat something going on a diet i have never advocated nor have i ever done and so i'm not you know i don't need my own and this whole show to be about me while i appreciate the attention it's my belief is about reversing the obesity trend and if you really want to reverse the obesity trend we see that ninety percent of those who gain weight and

lose it gain it back so the idea is to prevent every convention means preprogramed see to age five ok fine let's go ahead the reason why it is. because you know the low fat diet does not provide the quality the nutrients require as the first one will fit him and all these essential fats are really necessary for the body you know you like a sixty percent of the brain is fried the lungs are very fast your organ. this is exactly what according needs to develop and be healthy ok robert what do you know we're almost out of time you only get three. true friends from grass fed animals i'm not talking about the very thing for spirit ok robert i were here is usually we have war against obesity ok because there seems to be so many different approaches of how to deal with it. yeah that was part of the problem all of the different approaches and as you got to hear me me there's a really have an answer she says are you doing about things that you know i'm sure

there's some good that comes out of it but we want to map it and we want to show people how to make the world but only. you know i am close to the way news i would think tales of my you know people i love people me i give me your ear. there are people who are actually listening and who watch this program and you're insulting them you don't realize and that's why i'm hoping that you can realize let's not insult here is an example that at the end of the day as i mean from very large scale we held this everyone right her fears not because you sundering used to pander people. this is this is being in place you need to solve the problem recession we've run out of time a fascinating discussion i did expect this with this topic many thanks to my guest today in manchester los angeles a new york and thanks her viewers for watching as you are to see you next time and remember i'll stop me.

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