these images. can. go for. past the hour here in the russian capital you're watching on t.v. your headlines now pakistan has decided it's a boycott crucial talks on afghanistan's future next week all in a bid to cut back on cooperation with washington the already strained it ties some to a new low after a recent nato airstrike on army checkpoints killed twenty four pakistani soldiers. britain grinds to a halt as public sector workers walk out over pension and the country's biggest strike for a generation summer two million people are taking part nationwide thousands of

schools and offices are closed while hospitals are being forced to focus on emergency care. britain orders the iranian embassy in london to close as the diplomatic rift deepens south of violent protesters stormed the british compound in tehran but the u.k. reacted to the siege by pulling out its own embassy staff from iran. and a record number of egyptians turned up to cast their vote in parliamentary elections put to rear square demonstrators remain skeptical saying the poll is meaningless if a powerless parliament is ruled by the military. in half an hour's time my colleague bill dodd will be manning the helm here but for now the people of illinois discussed whether those suffering from obesity should be forced to pay a so-called fat tax cross-talk is next here on alt.

welcome to the beautiful little taxing people in the name of health is one of the aims of the so-called bad governments all over the world and throughout history have adopted policies to influence behavior in the name of public health should be the subject of the syntax like alcohol and tobacco. cross-talk the so-called fat tax i'm joined by mimi roth in new york she is president of the national action against obesity in los angeles we have robert ferguson he is c.e.o. of diet free life and serves on the presidential task force on obesity and the national medical association and in manchester we cross to bill bradley he is the london chapter leader of the western a price foundation my focus is crossed i've been and you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first marsha tell us more about what is

called the facts well first i must say it's quite ironic to see one of the least the countries in the world be the first to implement a measure but irony aside let's figure out what this tax is all about the law which went into effect and then mark in early october eleventh the surcharge on foods high in saturated fats all with good intent politicians claim it will help to reduce cardiovascular disease a we city and diabetes at the political level there was a high degree of consensus for this law it was wide agreement by trying to improve the average danish life about trying to improve the health of the jewish people. but outside of politics the measure is finding few allies first of all take years before empirical evidence can prove the bill tax not only causes measurable changes in behavior but also translates into tangible health improvements at the same time studies have shown a positive correlation between income level and better diet quality which means that the fat tax will hit the poor first and foremost a daunting prospect for those already mired in the economic crisis critics of the

approach also say there are more efficient alternatives such as taxing people who already are overweight a practice often deemed unethical and controversial and for that reason avoid it meanwhile countries like the us which has the highest obesity rating in the world has been instead trying to target diet habits among children who want to get parents information so that they can make good decisions we want to improve the quality of food in our schools and we want to make food more fordable and accessible but if all else fails there's already talk that the u.s. along with other western countries could follow denmark's example and who knows after all research has shown that taxing smoking for example does reduce its consumption then mark now specs to rake in some two hundred thirty three million dollars and for tax revenues money it has promised to spend on health programs and maybe it's something to think about him in those absurd measures something to think about ok i'd like to first go to mimi in new york what's wrong with about tax because the daves on to something because you know i used to be

a smoker and i quit smoking for health reasons but if i did in the united states i probably would have quit because it was just too damn expensive to buy cigarettes so you know we have governments all the time influencing behavior why not do it when it comes to obesity. i'm actually all for the tax the reality is did mark has a ten percent obesity rate that's the perfect time to address obesity ninety percent of people who lose weight do not keep it off it is very hard to reverse obesity the only way to reverse that trend is to prevent it so it's the perfect timing for denmark to make big measures to revert to reverse the trend and get in front of any escalating obesity numbers and i'll tell you what any survey around the world the best looking people always come up to be that they must be doing something right robert what do you think about that agree i mean if. the best way of controlling obesity because we had me there saying we should get out there in the front of the game here before it happens i mean there's so many countries

especially in the industrialized west where we're decades behind the ball here i mean what's the best way of controlling it into a lot of people saying that a character is a do it and you know and it may be because like i said with alcohol and tobacco it seems to change people's behavior well here here's the deal and this is you know some coming from someone who's in the trenches you do not want to have a fat tax and this is why number one in order it's tax somebody you must identify what makes that product or food on healthy so my big question around the globe is who are the people responsible for telling me what is actually healthy in what is not healthy that's number one so once we can figure that out and i can't wait to meet these people who are actually categorizing the food as healthy they'll us talk from there and we also know that when you actually read it isn't. it isn't fair by the way that's a very interesting point of view exactly but i'm going to feel it here and you can get everyone here on the panel feel you know it's interesting thing is that we need

experts to tell us what's healthy what's not healthy i mean i think even just we all know if we go to mcdonald's every single day that's not going to be healthy for you ok i mean that's common knowledge that you that's not a mystery. go on what is your first meal go ahead philip. we created governments made the mistake of getting traditional nutrient dense foods and fats from grass fed animals mcdonald's doesn't provide that you know these are firm factory farm animals which have a completely different nutrient. provision. instead because mint has replaced natural fat some traditional fruits with excess carbohydrates toxic marjorie means and vegetables and we actually believe that these are water causing a piece of tea in disease so a fat tax will actually cause more obesity really want me what you know if you imagine actually just just that this is british government writing nine hundred

eighty three from a did a carbohydrate restricted diet to encourage weight loss and they suddenly turned it around when they adopted the low fat agenda ok robert what do you think about that you were chuckling there you agree or disagree with that. why i gree with the theory of the trans fats in chester i interpret interest or fried fads are unhealthy is something that we all benefit to avoid but at the same time it blows my mind that people look at fast food me on a matter we condemn it here's the reality i've had clients big mags eat a layer of fish is fries then go from your far left or right as far as food fine dining we're again i could not and they've all been able to reduce their waistline and expand their life while i'm talking about elevated cholesterol we've brought it down so as not so much the the why. do you have. an anomaly and not only here go ahead maybe go ahead jump in at the point of the program. well look here's the here's the deal so give me an easy this is einstein

said the you cannot you cannot solve today's problems using the mindset to create a problem you're coming from a diet mentality and a diet mentality is not what's going. save people i was going to say never really knew this is. still going on since you have not been on the guy that's why you have time identifying with the challenges the emotional challenges that people are faced with. you speak through these and you don't seem very you know even a who they are is showing people how they can literally be successful with girls of their economic situation or their cultural identity you're the one who is placing judgment on people and stopping them from being able to maximize life based on their situation and circumstances and that my friend is what we define as wellness meeting people we're the orange showing them how to make it work so as education is great he knows we're talking about anymore i mean as you talk about that i come

where you go because he's been asked. to go ahead. i come i come from a long line interview so you my mother my father my aunts my uncles my grandparents you know and i know just how difficult it is to maintain health i run four miles a day i watch what i eat i do not call that going on a diet i just call that being responsible about what i eat i think that what we all have to do is figure out what kinds of foods we can eat that allow us to maintain health and it's not just about life expectancy it's about being well for the length of your life if you are sickly like my grandmother who has not gotten out of bed in four years not even to go to the bathroom she lives in a twenty four hour care home she's now in renal failure all because of obesity i've seen my entire family suffer this i do know what i'm talking about it is about not just a fat tax you're right let's get you know let's look at the high sugar foods to people

need to eat in a way that they can maintain healthy for the length of their life life and all those other words you're using i think you lost on when you got hyperbolic the reality is it's very different very. well in this environment you control our importers but we have to control our sex importers we have to control other impulses like they are and we also have to learn to control our food impulses food is a wonderful thing but we can be completely out of control with food all the time any industry lobbyist want to keep us out of control at all times a robber with a what if you were me. i'd likely just we should. like to address the sugar issue we're concerned the. targeting sugar will encourage artificial sweeteners and these actually can induce food cravings by creating an insulin response and artificial sweeteners like aspartame are particularly toxic

this is produced from g.m.o. bacteria and it breaks down into formaldehyde and methanol in the gut and we're going to see a lot more they speak the ironic thing about the. government's nutritional guidelines one of the most ironic things is over half of the calories proposed from carbohydrates in the body breaks these all down into sugars and the only use of sugar in the diet really is energy and we've got excess carbohydrates in the body is putting this on the waist in the bottom everywhere you don't want it to be because we're just overloaded with carbohydrates through these gargi guidelines ok robert if you're right if the simple carbohydrates are exactly right complex carbohydrates like that symbols are a good thing but it's those simple carbohydrates that are very troublesome. to really hate sure you actually. have truth because one of the problems with starchy carbs are you know you're actually have more calories you're off topic i'm not promoting starchy i'm not. i'm not promoting starting all right i want to i want to

go to robert before we go to the break go ahead robert you said we're off topic go ahead. so we're talking about a fat tax we all want people to be well and to live their best life that's what i do every day and it sounds like both of these people or are advocating the same thing but the reality is we do not want to tax people for food again who use the term meaning what makes a healthy and i'm healthy that's the person i want to know and as a clinical justice i can't wait to have that one on one conversation all right we're going to know your question here where you are short break i will continue our discussion so in this time tax state authority.

had pushed a ten year old boy. we use our system you're. never explained why until. most people at the point of looking down in time to pull the trigger became. remember we see trigger. when i remember is that we shall. fire soldiers to. sort through it so they're trying to kill us we're trying to kill them that's just how we face a war. that. we're

to war zone. when i started seeing how i need to check. in on the way to their arrival. that's why. the. lives of. technology innovation all the elements around. we've got the future covered. q c. m cross-talk i feel about to remind you we're discussing fatty food taxation.

keep slim. ok me me and i to go back to you in new york well when it was a fad taxes mentioned a lot of people claim they ate and ate it's disappeared disproportionately hurts the poor because they have fewer choices they have less time to work at their hourly workers and in many cases i mean i was brought up in america there's not a great deal of not maybe better now but when i was growing up knowledge about nutrition is very very little if you're a working class family and you don't have much and i'd earned well you don't have good health conditions i mean you fall into this trap of not eating healthy food because number one it's relatively cheap. but it but you know what's expensive being sickly for decades you know it's expensive having diabetes to type two diabetes for decades that's what's really expensive eating broccoli black b. maybe some brown rice not expensive drinking water instead of sweetened drinks not

expensive it's a myth that it is so expensive to eat reasonably it what is costing us in suffering and in money is that we are bringing health this health crisis onto ourselves a full three quarters of our seven hundred fifty billion dollar health bill is a due to our lifestyle choices and we know as we've seen with higher taxes on tobacco and in denmark they've already been taxing candy and they've eliminated or minimize trans fat they have had a positive response we know in the us as we elevated the taxes on tobacco the higher the taxes go the consumption goes down so there is nothing wrong with taxing soda there's nothing wrong with taxing the necessary ubiquitous products that when consumed do not promote health we're not talking about food we're talking about junk food really ok we were over what about that because i mean you're going to get well go ahead because i mean again they're all stressed the point here is that you know we were disproportionately poor people don't have access to high quality food

and it's just a fact that it's a fact of life ok and there's a lot of lack of knowledge to even if you wanted to well you might not be able to afford it exactly you just hit the nail on the here the key here is that you want to meet people were the or and this is where mimi is told the missing of bill and that's because she is coming from a guy of mentality i agree that broccoli is ideal i recommend it all the time but the same time i have clients who you know they are concentrating on the fact that their food is subsidized therefore when they go to their food bank they want to learn how to eat the foods they have access to and i've been able to show them how . actually do that and get upgrades with their overall health and as a result of the knowledge in feeling better about where they are then they're in a better position to get a better job to have more money so it's education that i want to promote and i also must tax the people for lack of education. first of all great during the i think

realizing that when he's a little less sure you should let philip go ahead go ahead. you know it's all about education and you know you need freedom of choice in order to be able to educate anybody about anything even and this gets rid of freedom of choice but. there is an unrelated now who doesn't know that water is healthy food if you want it i mean i. would say shortly in the diet. that's not where it's not you we hate it we don't need to be awash in saturated fat almost everyone in the night is america ingested way too much saturated fat may not be true in every notion but in the most developed nations there is in london saturated fat when you go west in price has a specific agenda to promote animal fat we all know that so i think that you come with a bias to say that animal fat is you know something that everyone in the first place

i want to talk to say that we see a lot of this think i'm better every day. well let's take it let's just take one of your points about controlling sexual abuse well the sex hormones are produced from cholesterol we've got i know you. but your actions around you know i know you say sex hormones are juice from cholesterol and we infertility is just off the charts right now. and these big question. and animal facts there are exactly what children need to grow healthy and strong they're what the elderly need the brain is more than sixty percent of our restraint seeing. and we're not we're here for you know having the. right anyway these crews and. not getting the nutrient dense foods which they used to eat and we're telling them not to eat ok. well i mean i love his passion but the

focus here is on us should we or do we advocate you know people being taxed based on the food and i say no and i say that because education is key and meet people where they are and then as a result of that learning curve they'll be in a position where they can make the choices that are going to work best for them that's what it comes down to. the writers only are and i can say these guys are all ok i mean if i can go to you i mean you want to make it let's make them where they are ok i was i think we would all agree to what he said was ok i think we would all agree that obesity is an epidemic ok in the end why i meet them where they are and guess what i mean every time i went anywhere they will say well he doesn't realize all right i need to tell you senator basically point is my point is when we hear a word like epidemic that's a national international emergency now are we doing things to meet that emergency because for goodness sake i mean if you walk in all cross the united states and i don't see you p.c. so much here in russia do i see younger people getting bigger and bigger because of

the imported western diet so i mean what are these what is the agenda because if this is turning into such a health disaster which it is as we it's been pointed out on this program what has to be done without the government always taking the lead i mean we do it through schools family religion what me first. all of the above and you know what we need to start concentrating on the people who are already overweight and obese we need to consecrate and concentrate on the zero preparedness see to age five grew it is about obesity prevention we need to do everything we can to stop mentioning a new fat kid every single day every child in the last few years who has become obese that's on our watch we've all known better for many years now just how dangerous transplants are high sugar consumption sweetened drinks and yet every day more and more children become obese it's about preprinted age five we need to take all of our funds over energy and concentrate on that segment if we want to reverse

obesity rather what do you know that america has been doing. good for america has been doing this since nine hundred seventy five promoting this low fat high carbohydrate diet and they've been pushing it that precise our age group i don't know what i say. people are getting more obese. you're talking about taxes to enforce what they're already trying to push and that's going to make more of this i'm ok robert what do you think about that was philip philip in the united states you are generalizing so that's not what we're advocating and pushing so maybe u.s. government is really what the u.s. government is emerging what i mean what the u.s. is you're on there i'm talking about. ok so and implies a very clearly united states are not following the guidelines of a of the government the reality is we need a methodology and the methodology that is going to work begins with education it

keeps coming back to that i believe that everybody needs love and thereby needs help and so i'm not going to say let's focus on zero to five i'm all about us focus on the individuals who are the ones who are the leaders and when you work with the leaders like the parents and the parents to make it work for them being kids always do they see their parents do not so much what their parents tell them soul is not about going to the schools is not relevant is about meeting people and look and when i say meet people where they are then that is i mean a person where they are that it takes compassion me me to be able to do that which what i'm getting from you you're definitely lacking and i don't mean it to be insulting but you're truly missing their whole point people who they are as caring for i come from i don't think it helped that you know he made. who has me and me who has me me helps to reduce their waistline i want to hear how mimi has been able to make a big impact on helping people that's what i want to hear if you need the answer

this is turning into your program so go right ahead. well there was here you will see a solution i certainly i certainly have testified on behalf of calories the list listings are many reports of people have more information i testified on behalf of the soda tax i've changed school food i've been involved with getting the. supply in america i get countless e-mails and phone calls every day from the people that i've helped i do not put people on diets i've never advocated anyone going on a diet diet simply means the kind of food we eat we all have a diet we all eat something but going on a diet i have never advocated nor have i ever done and so i'm not you know i don't need my and this whole show to be about me while i appreciate the attention my belief is about reversing the obesity trend and if you really want to reverse the obesity trend we see that ninety percent of those who gain weight and lose it gain it back so the idea is to prevent every convention means pre-trained see to age

five ok if you're going to the reason why you. know because you know the low fat diet does not provide the body the nutrients or requires the sort of will fit and all these essential fats that are really necessary to the body you know your joint like assert sixty percent of the brain is fact the lungs are very fast you're going . this is exactly what the body needs to develop and be healthy ok robert what do you know we're almost out of time you know a good three found a natural for a strong grass fed animals i'm not talking about the people are eating fast food ok robert i wonder is it here is it usually the war against obesity ok because there seems to be so many different approaches and how to do with it. yeah that what that's part of the problem all of the different approaches and as you got to hear me me there's a really have an answer she's arguing about things that you know i'm sure there's some good that comes out of it but we want to match that we want to show people how

to make a. real life have a requires people a serious challenge that fails my you know people i know people me very me your ears. there are people who are actually listening and who will watch this program and you're insulting them you don't realize and that's why i'm hoping that you can realize let's not insult here is an example that the end of the day is i mean right here we have this everyone right here fears is not the case you sundering used to pander people. this is mrs graham i see me because most of the conversation we've run out of time fascinating discussion and expect that's what this topic many thanks to my guest today in manchester was than just any new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here already see you next time and remember i'll stop me. still.

and. one of them. will. come.

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