i'm talking to you it's a page it's a you tube dot com flash r.t. america on twitter at liz wahl we'll see you back here at saddle. the lead. to a. large. degree. relentless. mediocre story or mediocre. talk. the lead legs technology innovation the insulin the huge urge. to see a story and it seems so bleak you think you understand it and then

a limp something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything is all. i'm sorry above the law. let me. leave. ilija

to. blame please. well democrats are futile taxing people in the name of health is one of the aims of the so-called fat tax governments all over the world and throughout history have

adopted policies to influence behavior in the name of public health cheap food be to subject of a sin tax like alcohol and tobacco. cross-talk the so-called fat tax i'm joined by mimi roth in new york she is president of the national action against obesity in los angeles we have robert ferguson he is c.e.o. of diet free life and serves on the presidential task force on obesity for the national medical association and in manchester we cross to the wrigley he is the london chapter leader of the west and a price foundation my focus is crossed i'm going to as you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first marcia tell us more about what is called the facts well first i must say it's quite ironic to see one of the least the countries in the world be the first to implement a measure but irony aside let's figure out what this tax is all about the war which went into effect in denmark in early october eleventh the surcharge on foods high

in saturated fats all with good intent politicians claim it will help to reduce cardiovascular disease and diabetes at the political level there was a high degree of consensus for this law it was white agreement about trying to improve the average danish lifespan trying to improve the health of the danish people. but outside of politics the measure is finding few allies first of all take years before imperial evidence can prove that attacks not only causes measurable changes in behavior but also translates into tangible health improvements at the same time studies have shown a positive correlation between income level and better diet quality which means that the fat tax will hit the poor first and foremost a daunting prospect for those already mired in the economic crisis critics of the approach also say there are more efficient alternatives such as taxing people who already are overweight a practice often deemed unethical and controversial and for that reason avoid it meanwhile countries like the us which has the high school b.c. rating in the world has been instead trying to target diet habits and want children

who want to get parents information so they can make good decisions we want to improve the quality of food in our schools we want to make food more affordable and accessible but if all else fails there's already talk that the u.s. along with other western countries could follow denmark's example and who knows after all research has shown that taxing smoking for example does reduce its consumption then mark now expects to rake in some two hundred thirty three million dollars in fact tax revenues money has promised to spend on health programs and maybe it's something to think about images of certain measures is something to think about ok i could first go to meaning in new york what's wrong with the fact tax because of the games on to something because you know i used to be a smoker and i quit smoking for health reasons but if i lived in the united states i probably would have quit because it's just too damn expensive to buy cigarettes so you know we have governments all the time influencing behavior why not do it when it comes to obesity. i'm actually all for the tax the reality is that mark has

a ten percent obesity rate that's the perfect time to address obesity ninety percent of people who lose weight do not keep it off it is very hard to reverse obesity the only way to reverse that trend is to prevent it so it's the perfect timing for gen mart to make big measures to reverse to reverse the trend and get in front of any escalating obesity numbers and i'll tell you what any survey around the world the best looking people always come up to be the day must be doing something right robert what do you think about that would be i mean if the tax of this way of controlling obesity because we had many they're saying we should get out there in the front of the game here before it happens i mean there's so many countries especially in the industrialized west where we're decades behind the ball here i mean what's the best way of controlling it in for a lot of people saying that characters who do it in it maybe because like i said with alcohol and tobacco it seems that change people's behavior well here here's

the deal and this is you know some coming from someone who's in the trenches you do not want to have that x. and this is why i'm number one in order to attack somebody you must identify what makes that product or food and healthy so my big question around the globe is who are the people responsible for tell me what is actually help the in what is not helping that's number one so once we can figure that out and i can't wait to meet these people who are actually categorizing the food as unhealthy then was taught from there and we also know that when you hear it is a problem it no it isn't food by the way that's a very interesting point of view exactly but i want to go to philip erode you can get everyone here on the panel phil you know it's interesting thing is that we need experts to tell us what's healthy what's not healthy i mean i think even we all know if we go to mcdonald's every single day that's not going to be healthy for you ok i mean that's common knowledge that you dismiss a lot of history. but what we really want is your personal go ahead to look. we

believe the government's made the mistake of uniting traditional nutrient dense foods and fats from grass fed animals mcdonald's doesn't provide that you know these are from factory farm animals which have a completely different nutrient. provision. instead because mint has replaced natural fats and traditional fruits with excess carbohydrates toxic martyring and vegetables and we actually believe that these what are causing obesity and disease so a fat tax will actually cause more obesity we believe well niemi what you know if you natch actually i'll just add this is british government writing nine hundred eighty three promoted a carbohydrate restricted diet turn courage weight loss and they suddenly turned around when they adopted the low fat agenda ok robert what do you think about that you were chuckling there you agree or disagree with. why i gree with

a third of the trans fats in interest in terror interest or five fads are unhealthy is something that we all benefit to avoid but at the same time it blows my mind if people look at fast food me on demand we condemn it here's the reality i've had clients the big mags eat fillet of fishes fries and go from your far left to right as far as fast food fine dining organic or not and they've all been able to reduce their waistline and expand their life i'm talking about elevated cholesterol we've brought it down so as not so much the. high end you have. in an alley and not only here go ahead leave you go ahead jump in that's the point of the program. well look here's the here's the deal so give me give me anything this is what einstein said you cannot you cannot solve today's problems using the mindset to create a problem you're coming from a diet mentality and a diet mentality is not what's going. save people i didn't mean to say never. again

since i'm going to insist you have not been on a diet and that's why you have time identifying with the challenges the motional challenges that people are faced with. you speak through reason you don't see where you may hear who they are and showing people how they can literally be successful we gardeners of their economic situation or their cultural identity you're the one who is placing judgment on people and stopping them from being able to maximize life based on their situation and circumstances and that my friend is what we define as wellness meeting people we're the orange showing them how to make it work so as education i say he only knows we're talking about anymore meaning as you talk about that i phone where you're going to. go ahead we've got new york i come i come from a long line of business so you my mother my father my aunts my uncles my grandparents you know and i know just how difficult it is to maintain health i run

four miles a day i watch what i eat i do not call that going on a diet i just call that being responsible about what i eat i think that what we all have to do is figure out what kinds of foods we can eat that allow us to maintain health and it's not just about life expectancy it's about being well but the length of your life if you are sickly like my grandmother who has not gotten out of bed in four years not even to go to the bathroom she lives in a twenty four hour care home she's now in renal failure all because of obesity i've seen my entire family suffer this i do know what i'm talking about it is about not just a fat tax you're right let's get you know let's look at the high sugar foods to people need to eat in a way that they can maintain healthy for the length of their life life and all these other words you're using i think you loss is on when you got hyperbolic the reality is it's very different very. well in this environment you control our

impulses but we have to control our sex impulses we have to control our imports of like and we also have to learn to control our food impulses food is a wonderful thing but we can be completely out of control with food all the time any industry and lobbyist want to keep us out of control at all times before you really know what would go with your. ideas we should all be. allowed to address the sugar issue we're concerned that this fat tax targeting sugar will encourage artificial sweeteners and these actually can induce food cravings by creating and in chile in response. artificial sweeteners like aspartame are particularly toxic this is produced from g.m.o. bacteria and it breaks down into formaldehyde and methanol in the gut and we're going to see a lot more of this but the ironic thing about the. government's nutritional guidelines one of the most ironic things is over half of the calories proposed are

from carbohydrates and the body breaks these all down into sugars and the only use of sugar in the diet really is energy and we've got excess carbohydrates in the body is putting this on the waist in the bottom everywhere you don't want it to be because we're just overloaded with carbohydrates through these dietary guidelines ok robert if you're right if the simple carbohydrates are exactly right complex carbohydrates like that symbols are a good thing but it's those simple carbohydrates that are very troublesome. and we know that you hate sure you actually. have truth because one of the problems with starchy carbs are you saying that you know you're actually have more calories you're off topic i'm not going starchy i'm not hurting stuff i'm not promoting starting all right i want to i want to go to robert before we go to the break go ahead robert you said we're off topic go ahead. it's only on so we're talking about a fat tax we all want people to be well and to live their best life that's what i do every day and it sounds like both of these people are are advocating the same

thing but the reality is we do not want to tax people for food again who is determining what makes a food healthy and unhealthy that's the person i want to know and as a climatologist says i can't wait to have that want to one conversation all right we're going to now you're ok with near where you go to a short break and i think that you're able continue our discussions on this on tax day with our team. to. see. wealthy british science.

markets find out. why no one should really happening to the global economy with much stronger no holds barred look at the global financial headlines kaiser reports on our keep. the a slice of. the slow boat to. alongside. technology to. the city of this land. sea. the official g.o.p. cation. i pod touch from the top story. one child's life on the go live to london live in my.

present state now in the palm of your listening. to slim lead live the american prosecutor all about to remind you we're discussing fatty food taxation. lists the list. ok me me and i to go back to you in new york well one fat tax is mentioned a lot of people claim it it's this and disproportionately hurts the poor because they have fewer choices they have less time to work with their hourly workers and in many cases i mean i was brought up in america there's not a great deal of not maybe better now but when i was growing up knowledge about

nutrition is very very little if you're a working class family and you don't have much you're not earning well you don't have good health conditions i mean you fall into this trap of not eating healthy food because number one it's relatively cheap. but it but you know it's expensive being sickly for decades you know it's expensive having diabetes to type two diabetes for decades that's what's really expensive eating broccoli black b maybe some brown rice not expensive drinking water instead of sweetened drinks not expensive it's a myth that it is so expensive to eat reasonably it is what is causing us in suffering and in money is that we are bringing health care this health crisis onto ourselves a full three quarters of our seven hundred fifty billion dollar health bill is a due to our lifestyle choices and we know as we've seen with higher taxes on tobacco and in denmark they've already been taxing candy and they've eliminated or minimized trans fat they have had

a positive response we know in the us as we elevated the taxes on tobacco the higher the taxes go the consumption goes down so there is nothing wrong with taxing soda there's nothing wrong with taxing the necessary ubiquitous products that when consumed do not promote health we're not talking about food we're talking about junk food really ok when you were what about that because let me. go ahead because i mean again we're all stressed the point here is that you know i mean we disproportionately poor people don't have access to high quality food and it's just a fact that it's a fact of life ok and there's a lot of lack of knowledge to even if you want to well you might not be able to afford it exactly you just hit the nail on the here but the key here is that you want to meet people were the or and this is where mimi is told the missing the ball and that's because she is coming from a guy mentality i agree that broccoli is ideal i recommend it all the time but the same time i have clients who you know they are concentrating on the fact that their

food is subsidized therefore when they go to their food bank they want to learn how to eat the foods they have access to and i've been able to show them how. to actually do that and get agrees with they're all wrong help and as a result of the knowledge in feeling better about where they are then they're in a better position to get a better job to have more money so it's education that i want to promote and not so much taxing people for lack of education. that's what we are in the i think we are you really. sure you should feel it go ahead go ahead you know it's all about education and you know you need freedom of choice in order to be able to educate anybody about and if they need me and this. freedom of choice but. they're having the boys are really in it now who doesn't know that water is healthy for you if you want to do you know even when you say shortly in the diet. that's

not very high you know we don't need to be awash in that trade fat almost everyone in the night is america in just way too much saturated fat that may not be true in every notion but in the most developed nations there is in london saturated fat but you go west in price has a specific agenda to promote animal fat we all know that so i think that you come with a bias to say that animal fat is you know something that everyone would place i want to. say that we see a lot of the stick of butter every day. well let's take it let's just take one of your points about controlling sexual abuse well the sex hormones are produced from cholesterol we've got to. tell me about your actions around i know you say sex hormones are produced from cholesterol and we infertility is just off the charts right now. and. i think the question. and

animal fats there are exactly what children need to grow healthy and strong they're what the elderly need the brain is more than sixty percent of our restraint seeing . and we're not here for you know having to. ok these schools and was literally. not getting this nutrient dense foods which they used to eat and we're telling not to eat ok. why i mean i love his passion but the focus here is on us should we or do we advocate you know people being taxed based on the foods that they eat and i say no and i say that because education is key to meet people where they are and then as a result of that learning curve they'll be in a position where they can make the choices that are going to work best for them that's what it comes down to something i mean we. can say these guys are all ok i mean if i can go to you i mean you want to make it let's make them where they are ok i was i think we would all agree let's hear what he said was ok i think we would

all agree that obesity is an epidemic ok in the end why i meet them where they are and guess what i mean every time i went i know why they will say well he doesn't realize all right what are you saying that basically your point is my point is when we hear a word like epidemic that's a national international emergency now are we doing things to meet that emergency because for goodness sake i mean if you walk in all across the united states and i don't see obesity so much here in russia do i see younger people getting bigger and bigger because of the imported western diet so i mean what are these what is the agenda because if this is turning into such a health disaster which it is as we it's been pointed out on this program what has to be done without the government always being taking the lead i mean if we do it through schools family religion what me first. all of the above and you know what we need to stop concentrating on the people who are already overweight and obese we need to consecrate and concentrate on the zero preparedness e two age group it is

about obesity prevention we need to do everything we can to stop mentioning a new fact kid every single day every child in the last few years who has become obese that's on our watch we've all known better for many years now just how dangerous trans fats are high sugar consumption sweetened drinks and yet every day more and more children become obese it's about preparing in c. to age five we need to take all of our funds all of our energy and concentrate on that segment if we want to reverse obesity rather what do you know that america's been doing. right for america has been during the since nine hundred seventy five promoting this low fat high carbohydrate diet and they've been pushing it precisely i don't know what i say. people are getting more obese what. about taxes to enforce what they're already trying to push and that's going to

write more of this i'm ok what do you think about that was philip philip and united states you are generalizing so that's not what we're advocating and pushing so maybe you have to remain in the u.s. government as american well i mean the u.s. the as you're going to go there i'm talking about. ok so energized and very clearly united states are not following the guidelines of a of the government the reality is we need a methodology and the methodology that is going to work begins with education keeps coming back to that i believe that everybody needs and thereby needs help and so i'm not going to say let's focus on zero to five i'm all about us focus on the individuals who are the ones who are the leaders and when you work with the leaders like the parents and the parents to make it work for them and kids always do what they see her parents do not so much what their parents tell them soul is not about going to the schools it's not. enough it's about meeting people and look and when i

say meet people where they are then that is i mean a person where they are compassionate me me to be able to do that which is what i'm getting from you you're definitely lacking and i don't mean it to be insulting but you're truly missing their whole point people are they are is caring and that's why i come from i need help that you know he made. who has me in me who has me me helps to reduce their waistline i want to hear how midi has been able to make a big impact on helping people that's what i want to hear she needed the answer this is turning into your program so go right ahead. yes here is the solution i certainly i certainly have testified on behalf of calorie. listings on many boards of people have more information i've testified on behalf of the soda tax i've changed school food i've been involved getting the. supply in america i get countless even elfin phone calls every day from the people that i've helped i do

not put people on diets i've never advocated anyone going on a diet diet simply means the kind of food we eat we all have a diet we all eat something but going on a diet i have never advocated nor have i ever done and so i'm not you know i don't need my and in this whole show to be about me while i appreciate the attention my belief is about reversing the obesity trend and if you really want to reverse to p.c. trend we see that ninety percent of those who gain weight and lose it gained it back so the idea is to prevent every conventional means preprinted see to age five ok if you're going to reason why it is going to sit right. there because you know the low fat diet does not provide the body the nutrients requires the first of all veterans all these essential fats that are really necessary to the body you know you like i said sixty percent of the brain is fact the lungs are very fast the organ. this is exactly what the body needs to develop and be healthy ok robert what do you know

we're almost out of time you get three thousand true for us from grass fed animals i'm not talking about the german people are eating fast food ok robert isn't here is that usually when we have war against obesity ok because there seems to be so many different approaches and how to do with it. yeah that was part of the problem all of the different approaches and as you got to hear me me there's a really have an answer she's arguing about things that you know i'm sure there's some good that comes out of it but we want to map it and we want to show her how to make a. you know why i don't recall those anyway danielle you think tales and i know people i know people me i mean me your ears. there are people who are actually listening and who will watch this program and you're insulting them you don't realize and that's why i'm hoping that you realize let's not insult here is an example of that at the end of the day is i mean hungry right here we have this air reward right refuses not to see your son you're going to use to pander people.

basically you're asking me because i saw her in the conversation we've run out of time the fascinating discussion it expect is with this topic many thanks to my guest today in manchester los angeles and in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here to see you next time and remember i was talking. to steve.

yes submit . thank. you.