live from moscow this is our t. top stories now this hour the un human rights watchdog agrees to send an investigator to look at abuse allegations in syria but russia votes against saying a report criticizing the government crackdown is not the full picture and the international community is receiving biased accounts of what's happening in the country. germany says there are no rapid solutions to the e.u. debt crisis and it could take years to revamp the eurozone and save the single currency chancellor angela merkel believes the region needs a new financial union with stronger controls and debt regulations. the

results of egypt's first post revolution elections are to be announced within a few hours after a forty eight hour delay but the muslim brotherhood is already celebrating the victory claiming to have gained forty percent of the votes. i'll be back with more news for less than half an hour from now in the meantime to kill or not to kill you watch our special report on u.s. troops in iraq and the life changing decisions they have to take soldiers of conscience is next here on our team. you know. a lot of the things that happened in iraq. like when people ask me if i killed anybody. morris honestly or kind of they they

portrayed in the movies. there was this one time where position on this rooftop. was like a political protest that turned violent everyone is quiet and this young man emerges. and he's got something in his hand. and i know that it's a grenade and. but i also know that he can't do anything to us because he's still fighting. everything that i described to you i'm looking through their rear operator of my m. sixteen site so

it's rare very very very intense moment and. i don't remember squeezing the trigger and i room i don't remember seeing him go down all i remember is that we shot him and the next image that i have is you know two men came from the crowd and grabbed him by the shoulders and pulled him through up bottle of blood. and then i remember that after that mission was over you know before we moved on to our next mission you know i went into a dark room by myself and i pulled up my magazine and i counted the bullets and i realized i had fired eleven bullets at him. and.

and it changes you. it's really hard to sit down and make moral decisions when you're trying to stay alive somebody shoots at you you need to take over you have your finger on the safety immediately goes to fire you know you do everything without even thinking about it. but then i came home and to whitney. and removed from that dangerous situation removed from that pressure i start thinking about the war. and looking for answers.

and. something changed my life. i began to object in a more profound personal spiritual way to war. so i'd made a commitment. that i was a conscious objector and i wasn't going back. and it wasn't a decision that took place overnight you know it's a painful process because it's healing but it's could destroy. this whole this this this this fear this this free bread this this the issue of camaraderie and you know your bodies in war and also the fear of punishment and all the skill and being tried by a court martial system the word the words court martial you know it's like so

evil and so bad. all those horrible images you know come to us like. you know being a coward and being a traitor and you know losing your freedom. and then suddenly you know i say you know. i'm not going to go to war i'm not going to go back to that i'm not going to go back to. everything that i'm told . and i'm going to say no. when one applies for conscientious objector status there is

a regulation that fully guides a soldier through the process. the soldier makes a formal application to his chain of command requesting conscientious objector status. the soldier has a burden of proof the soldier has to prove that the beliefs are genuine that the beliefs are real that the beliefs crystallized after the soldier came on active duty the soldier is interviewed by the chain of command by a chaplain by a person through mental health and they compile a complete application documenting their beliefs and why they think they should be a conscientious objector an independent investigating officer is important then the entire package has to go through the chain of command is all timidly reviewed by a board of vavasor's at headquarters department of the army and then ultimately

a decision is made whether or not the soldiers a conscientious objector. staff sergeant camillo may he refused to return to iraq he felt so strongly about his decision that he took the risky step of going public and talking to us while still in hiding are you a coward no i'm not. why did this soldier go away won't this soldier when able because the soldier that's nothing that this is a good war and when you look at the war a look at the reasons that took us to war and you don't find any of the things that we were told that we're going to war for trying to be true when you don't find that there were weapons of mass destruction and what you don't find there was a link between saddam hussein and al qaeda and you see that you're not helping the

people and you see that the people don't want you there to me there's no military contract and no military duty that is going to justify being a part of that war. and it just exploded because i was the first combat veteran to come back from iraq and go public and say this is wrong. i did not prepare a statement because what i have to say i have to say from the heart and it's a very simple mission it a message and it simply is that i'm saying no to war. i want to run and i was an instrument of violence and now i have decided to become an instrument of peace. i have the side i'm not going to be a part of the war but i'm going back to the military today i have really no idea what's going to happen but whatever happens if they try to say that i'm a criminal and they give me many years in jail unless i know that that i made the right decision in the god has forgiven me already thank you.

and i like knowing that. i went back to the military. and everything that i feared happened i was called a coward i was called a traitor. i was accused of assertion i was try i was convicted i was sentenced i was put in jail and the me tell you after never felt freer in my life you know there's a higher assertion of your freedom. to follow your conscience. when

it comes to conscientious objectors one thing that occurs to me right up front is their freedom to dissent is made possible by the soldiers that they criticize that in a perfect world it would be great if we could all be peaceful and not harm each other but we don't live in a perfect world. and i wonder about the conscientious objector. what would he do if that was his or her responsibility. to defend others. it's one thing to say that i will sit and take the punishment.

and if someone wants to do that based on their religious beliefs or their convictions then i respect that absolutely. but i have trouble respecting them saying i will allow someone else to get hurt when i could stop it. people tell me you know what would have happened if hitler was not stopped. well what would have happened if there would have been enough conscience objectors in the nazi army that would have been no war there would have been no hitler. there would have been no holocaust were if you believe that there never can be enough people were conscious objectors to stop a monster like hitler then it's never going to happen first you have to dream it and then you have to live your dream and make it happen for you to tell me that you know how i suppose that there are going to be that many consciences objectors you

know that just tells me that you know that just gives you more energy to say it is possible you weak we can have that many conscience objects we have to believe that if we don't believe that and for we don't have that dream and we don't live up to the dream how are we how are we going to survive as a human race if we continue to embrace war as a solution in some cases and we continue to think that there can never be enough conscience objectors to stop an army. i was at abu ghraib for about six months total of interrogation time.

when i wasn't at the interrogation center when i was on my free time i spent a lot of time in the chapel praying. most interrogating schoolboys young fathers a mom's average people taken off the streets and put into my interrogation booth. yeah finally five months into my time at abu ghraib i had an interrogation with a man who was a self-proclaimed jihadist. he told me that he had a certain peace because of his faith in islam. that if it was the will of god for him to stay in prison. and if he never was released it would be ok with that and he challenged me and wondering if i had that same kind of peace in my life.

wondering if i had the same kind of spiritual centered this to take that kind of fate. he then threw talking about jesus that i wasn't fulfilling the call to turn the other cheek to love one's enemies. it took a little bit offense to this comment. because it came from the mouth of a self-proclaimed geologist who told me that he would kill me if he had the chance . at something it definitely occurred within. one pose with that kind of challenge i had nothing i could say to him i absolutely agree with him. my position as a u.s. army interrogator contradicted my calling simply as a christian and it hindered my ability to do things like love my enemies.

i stopped the interrogation. but lost all perspective as a soldier. i wanted to ask him about his willingness to kill me i wanted to ask him about the peace that he found in his religion and if there could possibly be a way to get outside of the cycle of vengeance that the that he and i could share. in the regulation governing conscience objection. there's an element they call crystallization of conscience and every c.e.o. applicant has to say what that was for them and the interrogation with that you noticed was my crystallization of conscience. and it wasn't that a bunch of new beliefs suddenly emerged out of nowhere i realized for me to

follow christ. involves taking seriously the charge for peacemaking. in the beginning of february two thousand and five i formally submitted my application to be considered a conscientious objector. my application was proved by the thirtieth of may i was out of the army. i lived as a soldier for ten years. some of the things that happened in iraq you know things that my father told me started coming back and i like this the more you were trying to kill me. and i started thinking about. change of mind or heart more everyone put it but it took being

over there for almost seven months and then being back here for a year and i have you know really doing a lot of deep down reflection. i guess the term of soul searching. when i talk about it with my wife going over it over and over again thinking about it. i've spent a lot of time learning and reevaluating my mild person and you know myself and how i warm up myself. or around i guess you can go back to a letter that i had written to monaco when we were in the area of iraq that was the post to be where the garden of the you know you pray to love civilization is where

mankind began. i had to ask myself. why am i carrying around in six feet in the garden. or you know. in the us is. nothing honorable in killing i went to the war zone and i started seeing how i need to change and the way to do that is not pick up a rifle and kill another person that's why i'm applying for cops in subject the or.

the. sergeant bindra min was to essentially be on an airplane and fly to iraq with his unit and these offenses go to the essence of what it is to serve in the military you cannot have discipline if you have people that are disobeying orders. you know sark haven't been has been charged at the level of court martial that is the most serious thought the maximum penalty that he faces right now is five years confinement and a dishonorable discharge. with regards to united states versus bindman at this time

the charges before the court are desertion and missing movement. sark been immense c.-o. application was denied. it was clearly a hostile hostile environment where he's one of those conscience objector applicants minority that they are and. by golly you know will send the message that you don't do this. for. humanity eventually figured out that human sacrifice was wrong so they stopped doing that and we eventually figured out the slavery was wrong so we stopped doing

that so why don't we use the same criteria for war and just get away from it all the way all together. here you have. ten year army veteran accounts back from iraq with an enhanced sense of humanity. his dangers for the military they don't want forty year old soldier to say hey it's before our brothers and sisters.

sergeant benderman was found guilty on one charge of missing movement by design he will be reduced to the grade of anyone confined for fifteen months in dishonorably discharged.

if there's anything that i can get across to other soldiers that i am not against them. but i am against war. no soldier should leave their conscience behind in a war it's not that morality doesn't apply in war morality is most important because the soldier can do so much good or so much bad. by no means will my conscience objection eliminate the need for militaries tomorrow

but the goal has to create a society that moves ever toward that. peace is not a utopian vision it can happen that takes people willing to commit both their faith and their practical efforts to achieving it and you're not going to achieve that by constantly falling back on yesterday's wrong solution you have to have the guts to try something new. and. people who are applying for conscience objection and refusing military service are saying i have a different picture of tomorrow's humanity and i want to be involved in creating that. no one really wants to go to war but you know sometimes something's came into what it. was all about. like all different cultures if i feel powerful as well as just one person trying to

take the power from some other person a force it isn't always be war. well maybe we are night. maybe it starts out mean naive and then you know as more people become conscious objectors as more people and brace the concept of pacifism then it's no longer naive like you may have been naive to say that we can reach the moon. maybe naive you know people might have looked at you like you were crazy or a dreamer. he starts off being naive and then dreamer then maybe it's possible and then one day. you know. you progress your speed.

wealthy british style. sometimes.

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