if you're just joining us a very warm welcome to you this is the life from the headlines now authorities say that egypt's opening round of elections. but the results. are suggesting. protests demanding that the military give up power before the election is a. u.n. panel has passed a resolution condemning the syrian government for human rights violations and it's called the organization's main body. russia china voted against the motion saying

it's one sided and will only aggravate the conflict. and a legal loophole in the u.k. is being used as a shield for convicted criminals who have started families in the country the human rights. to a safe haven for serious offenders from. those are the headlines on the. i do stay with us special report on the tough decisions a soldier sometimes has to make the life and death moral dilemma of shooting to kill and that's coming up in of conscience. you know. i'm out of the things that happened in iraq. like

when people ask me if i killed anybody. morris honestly or kind of they they portrayed in the movies. there was this one time where position on this rooftop. was like a political protest that turned violent everyone is quiet and this young man emerges. and he's got something in his head. and i know that it's a grenade and. but i also know that he can't do anything to us because he's still fighting. everything that i described to you i'm looking through their rear operator of my m.

sixteen site so it's rare very very very intense moment and. i don't remember squeezing the trigger and i i don't remember seeing him go down all i remember is that we shot him and the next image that i have is you know two men came from the crowd and grabbed him by the shoulders and pulled him through up bottle of blood. and then i remember that after that mission was over you know before we moved on to our next mission you know went into a dark room by myself and i pulled up my magazine and i counted the bullets and i realized i had fired eleven bullets at him. and.

and it changes you. it's really hard to sit down and make moral decisions when you're trying to stay alive somebody shoots at you you need to take over you have your finger on the safety immediately goes to fire you know you do everything without even thinking about it. but then i came home and to whitney. and removed from that dangerous situation removed from that pressure i start

thinking about the war. looking for answers. and. something changed my life. i began to object in a more profound personal spiritual way to war. so i made a commitment. that i was a conscious objector and that i wasn't going back. and it wasn't six and that took place overnight you know it's a painful process because it's healing but it's could destroy. this whole this this this is fear this this regret this this the issue of camaraderie and you know your bodies in war and also the fear of punishment and all

the skill and being tried by a court martial system the word the words court martial you know it's like so evil and so bad. all those horrible images you know come to us like. you know being a coward and being a traitor and you know your freedom. and then suddenly you know i say you know. i'm not going to go to war i'm not going to go back. i'm not going to go back to everything that i'm told. and i'm going to say no.

when one applies for conscientious objector status there is a regulation that fully guides a soldier through the process. the soldier makes a formal application to his chain of command requesting conscientious objector status. the soldier has a burden of proof the soldier has to prove that the beliefs are genuine that the beliefs are real that the beliefs crystallized after the soldier came on active duty the soldier is interviewed by the chain of command by a chaplain by a person through mental health and they compile a complete application documenting their beliefs and why they think they should be a conscientious objector an independent investigating officer is imported then the

entire package has to go through the chain of command is all timidly reviewed by a board of vavasor's at headquarters department of the army and then ultimately a decision is made whether or not the soldiers a conscientious objector. staff sergeant camillo may he refused to return to iraq he felt so strongly about his decision that he took the risky step of going public and talking to us while still in hiding are you a coward no i'm not. why did this soldier go away won't this soldier when able because the soldier this nothing that this is a good war and when you look at the war a look at the reasons that took us to war and you don't find any of the things that we were told that we're going to war for trying to be true when you don't find that

there were weapons of mass destruction and what you don't find there was a link between saddam hussein and al qaeda and you see that you're not helping the people and you see that the people don't want you there to me there is no military contract and no military duty that is going to justify being a part of that war. and it just exploded because i was the first combat veteran to come back from iraq and go public and say this is wrong. i did not prepare a statement because what i have to say i have to say from the heart and it's a very simple mention it a message and it simply is that i'm saying no to war. i want to run and i was an instrument of violence and now i have decided to become an instrument of peace. i have the side i'm not going to be a part of the war but i'm going back to the military today i have really no idea what's going to happen but whatever happens if they try to say that i'm a criminal and they give me many years in jail unless i know that that i made the

right decision in the god has forgiven me already thank you. and i like the moment. i went back to the military. and everything that i feared happened i was called the coward i was called a traitor. i was accused of assertion i was try. i was convicted i was sentenced i was put in jail and then me tell you after never felt freer in my life you know

there's a higher assertion of your freedom. to follow your conscience. when it comes to conscientious objectors one thing that occurs to me right up front is their freedom to dissent is made possible by the soldiers that they criticize that in a perfect world it would be great if we could all be peaceful and not harm each other but we don't live in a perfect world. and i wonder about the conscientious objector. what would he do if that was his or her responsibility. to defend others.

it's one thing to say that i will sit and take the punishment. and if someone wants to do it based on their religious beliefs or their convictions then i respect that absolutely. but i have trouble respecting them saying i will allow someone else to get hurt when i could stop it. people tell me you know what would have happened if hitler was not stopped. well what would have happened if there would have been enough conscience objectors in the nazi army that would have been a war that would have been no hitler. there would have been no holocaust were if you believe that there never can be enough people were conscious objectors to stop a monster like hitler then it's never going to happen first you have to dream it

and then you have to live your dream and make it happen for you to tell me that you know how i suppose that there are going to be that many conscious objectors you know that just tells me that you know that just gives you more energy to say it is possible you weak we can have that many conscience objects we have to believe that if we don't believe that and for we don't have that dream and we don't live up to that dream how are we how are we going to survive as a human race if we continue to embrace war as a solution in some cases and we continue to think that there can never be enough conscience objectors to stop an army.

i was at abu ghraib for about six months total of interrogation time. when i wasn't at the interrogation center when i was on my free time i spent a lot of time in the chapel praying. most interrogating schoolboys young fathers the moms average people taken off the streets and put into my interrogation. yeah finally five months into my time at abu ghraib i had an interrogation with a man who was a self-proclaimed jihadist. he told me that he had a certain peace because of his faith in islam. that if it was the will of god for him to stay in prison. and if he never was released it would be ok with that

and he challenged me wondering if i had that same kind of peace in my mind. wondering if i had the same kind of spiritual centered this to take that kind of fate. he then threw talking about jesus that i wasn't fulfilling the call to turn the other cheek to love one's enemies. it took a little bit offense to this comments. because it came from the mouth of a self-proclaimed geologist who told me that he would kill me if he had the chance . at something it definitely occurred within. one pose with that kind of challenge i had nothing i could say to him i absolutely agree with him. my position as a u.s. army interrogator contradicted my calling simply as

a christian and it hindered my ability to do things like love my enemies. i stopped the interrogation. but lost all perspective as a soldier. i wanted to ask him about his willingness to kill me i wanted to ask him about the peace that he found in his religion and if there could possibly be a way to get outside of the cycle of vengeance that this that he and i could share . in the regulation governing conscience objection. there's an element they call the crystallization of conscience and every c.e.o. applicant has to say what that was for them and the interrogation with that you noticed was my crystallization of conscience. and it wasn't that

a bunch of new beliefs suddenly emerged out of nowhere i realized for me to follow christ. involves taking seriously the charge for peacemaking. in the beginning of february two thousand and five i formally submitted my application to be considered a conscientious objector. my application was approved by the thirtieth of may i was out of the army. i lived as a soldier for ten years. some of the things that happened in iraq you know things that my father told me started coming back and i like this award he went on. and i started thinking about.

change of mind or heart more every want to put it but it took being over there for almost seven months and then being back here for a year and i have you know really doing a lot of deep down reflection. i guess the term of soul searching. when i talk about it with my wife going over it over and over again thinking about it. i've spent a lot of time learning and reevaluating my mild person and you know myself and how i warm up myself. bob baur around i guess you can go back to a letter that i had written demonic that when we were in the area of iraq that was

supposed to be where the garden of the. right a love civilization is where mankind began. i had to ask myself. why am i carrying around in six feet in the garden. in the. there's nothing honorable in killing i went to the war zone and i started seeing how i need to change and the way to do that and not pick up a rifle and kill another person that's why i'm applying for

a cause in subject the or. the. sergeant bindra min was to essentially be on an airplane and fly to iraq with his unit and these offenses go to the essence of what it is to serve in the military you cannot have discipline if you have people that are disobeying orders. no sarc haven't been or been has been charged at the level of court martial that is the most serious thought the maximum penalty that he faces right now is five years

confinement and a dishonorable discharge. with regards to united states versus been determined at this time the charges before the court are desertion and missing movement. sorry been immense c.e.o. application was denied. it was clearly a hostile hostile environment where he's one of those conscience objector applicants minority that they are and. by golly you know will send the message that you don't do this. for. humanity eventually figured out that human sacrifice was wrong so they stopped

doing that and we eventually figured out the slavery was wrong so we stopped doing that so why don't we use the same criteria for war and i just get away from it all the way all together. here you have. ten year army veteran accounts back from iraq with an enhanced sense of humanity. his dangers for the military they don't want forty year old soldier to say hey it's before our brothers and sisters.

sergeant benderman was found guilty on one charge of missing movement by design he will be reduced to the grade of anyone confined for fifteen months and dishonorably discharged.

if there's anything that i can get across to other soldiers that i am not against them. but i am against war. no soldier should leave their conscience behind in a war it's not that morality doesn't apply in war morality is most important because that the soldier can do so much good or so much bad. by no means

will my conscience objection eliminate the need for militaries tomorrow but the goal is to create a society that moves ever toward that. peace is not a utopian vision it can happen but it takes people willing to commit both their faith and their practical efforts to achieving it and you're not going to achieve that by constantly falling back on yesterday's wrong solution. you have to have the guts to try something new. and. people who are applying for conscience objection and refusing military service are saying i have a different picture of tomorrow's humanity and i want to be involved in creating that. no one really wants to go to war but you know sometimes some things came out of what it. was all about.

like all different cultures if i feel powerful as well as this one person try to take the power from some other person a force it isn't always be war. well maybe we are night. maybe it starts out me naive and then you know as more people become conscious of techniques it's more people and praise the concept of pacifism then it's no longer naive like you may have been naive to say that we could reach the moon. maybe naive you know people might have looked at you like you were crazy or a dreamer. starts off being naive then you're a dreamer then maybe it's possible and then one day. you know. your progress or speed.