this is r t moscow it's covered over here on the half hour with our top story for you no thank you britain wishes the euro all the best and walks out of the e.u. plan aimed at saving be common currency from all chancellor merkel still calls parts of the deal a breakthrough the dream of united europe now looks more of an. israeli missiles rained down on garza targeting militants but hitting uncivilly in the split least one palestinian is killed and twenty five wounded mostly women and children in

televisa latest crackdown on hamas. and russia's central election commission confirms the ruling united russia party has won the parliamentary poll but it made smaller irregularities did take place sunday's vote was to determine the makeup of the country's parliament for the next five years. just ahead cross-talk discusses whether the arab league is capable of bringing positive stability to the region. hello and welcome to cross talk time peter lavelle an old organization finding a new mission this is how the arab league is being described by some particularly

when it comes to syria others are not so appreciative for them the arab league is very selective when it comes to sanctions and its own members and those hostile to the arab league call it a tool of western powers. and it. started . to cross talk the arab league i'm joined by monzer slain in washington he is director of the center for american arab studies and a national security affairs analyst also in washington we have hussein abdul hussein he is the washington bureau chief of the kuwaiti newspaper all right and in paris we cross to tell me he is the editor in chief and co-founder of arab thank dot com all right gentlemen this is crossfire that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first let's look at the arab league and syria. for decades now the arab league has had a shaky reputation often being dismissed as ineffective and only to the interest of

its autocratic regimes but with the onset of the arab spring it has managed to come to the forefront as a regional mediator calling the shots and researching its relevance in the arab world the blocs rural and regional affairs group back in march when it voted to suspend libya's membership and called for a no fly zone following the breakout of protests against moammar gadhafi his regime concerning the no fly zone. it has one goal to protect this a billion population regardless of any president we want to protect the civilian population in libya in fact some say that without the league there would have been no libya campaign at all presently the organization has focused on syria where the uprising against bashar al assad's regime has entered its nine month claiming more than four thousand lives it has suspended syria's membership and imposed a series of sanctions that include cutting off transactions with the country's central bank and freezing the assets of top government officials in response to

syria has accused the organization of catering to the interests of the west well some analysts claim the arab league's actions are at the very least inconsistent but it's extraordinarily ironic and hypocritical for the g.c.c. and for any other member of the arab league i would argue to be asking demands of the syrian government when they themselves have failed to make those demands upon their own people and the have even failed to make those demands upon others of their colleagues within the same region such for example is the arab league's lack of action on bahrain and yemen where government crackdown on protests has continued for months with overt rhetorical denunciations from the international community still claims that the arab league is exercising double standards in the interests of the west fly in the face of its long lasting hostility towards america's biggest ally in the region israel. meanwhile its current target syria has until sunday to respond to the league's plan to end the crisis by halting the crackdown releasing political prisoners and allowing observers into the country. came

onshore like to go to you first in washington how consistent is the arab league as we saw in that report there it's so you do what i say but don't do what i do i mean this is a club of dictators still are primarily dictators and there are going after syria i mean do they have the legitimacy to do that. well league is consistent of being absent in preserving our national interest. this regional. arrangement and organization has been a tool to u.s. policy to dominate the region and we can go back to the iraq war the invasion whether the war against iraq after a back invading kuwait with invasion to two thousand and three so it is very ironic that suddenly the arab league in the

mixed in the midst of a popular uprising that has nothing to do with it at all and never. play any role to help all or to look after the aspiration of the lot of people that suddenly is playing a very active role that violating the charter of the arab league to begin with and whether it's starting in libya and in libya case is a classical of how the arab league be became a tool for u.s. policy in particular and the west in general because and of the pretext of protecting civilian they bombed. libya and they destroyed libya and they they are after the wealth ok libya and when i talk about the use of force here because i think it's very interesting we're going to tell me in paris here i mean the arab league is demanded that assad withdraw his military and security forces from the

cities and that the violence should be used against civilians but it is same time i there's no i read very carefully they don't say anything about the opposition there there's no condemnation of the use of violence on the side of the of the protesters because you know out of four thousand deaths though it's been documented at least one thousand one hundred of them our troops i mean this is a civil war and why should the arab league be getting involved in a civil war. i think one of the things we should mention is that among the four thousand have been reported to have been killed they exclude. syrian troops in general so these are excluded from these troops of course it's unfortunate that violence today has plagued both sides of the conflict but we must understand at first that this is exactly what the regime of bashar assad has wanted in the first place is this south korea fulfilling prophecy where by ensuring that the fate of

the ilo we and other religious communities is attached to the fate of the regime the fall of the regime of the or the prospects of such a fall unfortunately links itself to the fall of these other communities and so they feel that it's either going to be they must side with the regime or they may face completely being go wiped out following the fall of the regime this of course as we've seen in hamas has unfortunately led to such sectarian strife but in general and the syrian opposition under the biggest umbrella group the syrian national council has completely condemned any kind of use of force that is other than the means to protect peaceful protests to be used within notably the free zone i mean but they're still using i mean there are all sides people are dying here so there's a lot of use of force here if i got hussein here why should the arab league be choosing a side in a civil war. first of all i disagree that their league

is intervening in their fear is that it has never interfered in the past at least since one thousand nine hundred six their league has had a long list of intervention in domestic and regional affairs the first items that come to my mind is when the arab league gave. the father gave them permission to enter lebannon as that deterrent force in one nine hundred eighty nine nine hundred ninety their big. help sponsor and to the war in. may two thousand and eight. and other agreements between hezbollah and its opponents in lebanon and the syrians of course were on the side of hezbollah and they were involved in this agreement so there's a long long list you know you say meaning if you know i mean if you like or not it was democratically elected but you have look at qatar one of the moving forces in the arab league right now we go and syria it is anything but

a democracy ok so my answer if i go back to you i mean are these countries in the arab league saying they believe in democracy and believe in syrian democracy but they don't practice it themselves. first of all done a beleaguered interfere always when they interfere it was to protect us and to restore western interest or israeli interest or their regimes interest even the examples that have been given there is about maybe three thousand decision on the shelves collecting dust for the arab league they never done anything to it there is the arab league initiative visa v israel that came out of a lib anees conference in lebanon there's nothing is being done about that so i think suddenly that the arab league especially dominated now by the g.c.c. country all are really. the dictatorship and the ruling families that

they even don't allow even women in some countries to drive and at the same time they want to teach decision about. democracy and progress what's happening the doubt oblique even in the syrian situation look they gave time after time they gave the city and deadline but even the deadline that they suggested to the opposition that opposition that created by them and by turkey by us by europe and france the national syrian council they gave the opposition three days if you remember to come up with a solution about transitional vision for syria they did not even and now the opposition they are in disarray there is no they have no collective position and at the same time data be continued to concise the government while they're turning their blind eyes on the weapons that are coming the fighters that are coming and the sectarian aspect to started from a lot of the demonstration from the beginning and the killing on sectarian lines

started of all of those factions going they want to revenge against the regime let me go to you go ahead if you want to join in paris tell me go ahead go ahead. if i may just. add something instead of the syrian national council has so far in the middle of november made it written down the protocol in which it first and foremost said that any corporation would be done with the legitimacy of arab support something which is absolutely necessary for the syrian people and if i may and other thing in general the syrian people would of course not accept any kind of western or u.s. back military intervention or any kind of intervention i mean. if i can ask you i mean if this is me john through it's being done through farragut so ok through turkey ok i mean it's not you know you can't point the finger at washington or london but you have. and there is a boy open border there and there is ample amount of evidence that bar arms are going into syria to fuel this civil war arms are going in arms are going into syria

but before we can move and talked about this civil war if i may come back to the point that i tried to made earlier it's that the regime has done everything to ensure that the degeneration of this internal situation would resemble that of the civil war of course if we look at the initial slogans and the initial mobilization that happened in the beginning and has continued to happen today the slogan. which means no no no to sectarianism it is still at the center of everything and even within the national council it's one of those resigned it was sort of a science and the syrians every kind of people ok gentlemen i'm going to jump in your minds or we'll go to you after a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the role of the arab league in the mideast stay with us.

i. think. it's all designed to keep you closed in your. world as a prison. you know you leave somebody in there for a couple hours like that in a stress positions. you have this fear of the unknown in this stress sort of building and. interrogations go on ten twelve hours they chose songs i remember from marilyn manson. slayer the two songs would be angel of death and raining blood. going to war coming up here into iraq with. johnny put the body for just a rock n roll bad it was fitting for the job we were doing. wealthy

british. markets. find out what's really happening to the global economy. global financial headlines tune in to the report. and. welcome. we're discussing the role of the arab league. and. ok months or in washington like to go to you

but first i'd like to ask you here we in the first part of the program we heard about arms coming into the in to syria from the outside and i mentioned turkey here i mean when you have a civil conflict in the country and arms are going in for one particular side isn't that just fueling a civil war even if you don't want to use the term civil war. well it may escalate to a civil war but from the beginning arms and fighters are infiltrating from lebanon from jordan from turkey and a lot of weapons in every day or week they are collecting the authority in syria they are discovering a cache of arms and even there's some infiltration by thirty five. military person from turkey there are. you know area but i want to from the beginning the emphasis of lack of any kind of their log in that a fusil of the opposition to enter into dialogue that fuel the situation sectarian

situation and fueled also this you know the armed. struggle or to bring violence to the peaceful demonstration the other thing they show off and to feel is from outside the puppets spokesman of the national syrian console the day whether bravo you alone with is interview with wall street journal or of some of other spokesman days book clearly about inviting outside forces entered to protect off the saving the civilians and the blueprint of what the united states has been all along trying to impose on the synergy is what were her own and other leaders they said you know just no relation with syria with iran no support to the palestinian resistance or to do one of the resistance has bella first of all never first of all about democratic president and lebanon and syria are equally quick

comparison over who's saying go ahead with regard. with regard to the palestinian resistance i think that the syrian national council if you look at the protocol explicitly says that it will support the palestinian cause and i believe that for the first time in the history of arab countries and since the creation of the illegal creation of the israeli state in one thousand nine hundred forty eight i think it's forty seven excuse me it's necessary to see that for now the start to school has been that about toward their emergencies all right gentlemen gentlemen i'm sorry i'm not listening gentlemen i'm going to i'm going to try and here john i want to talk about israel ok i want to talk about the arab league and syria ok so let's see what is it we say yes of course the same you say and i'm going to say right now do you think i mean what i think is very interesting is go back to libya ok i mean once you have the major powers with the backing of the of the arab league saying a leader must go the west is not going to back down until it happens just look at libya. yes well yeah i totally agree i mean. why do

assume that the syrians who are demonstrating inside syria are opposed to any foreign intervention or even intervention i think you know they have been friday is called the fridays of foreign protection i mean you know i don't buy into this narrative that there is a war inside syria until we get some objective observers and foreign media going in and this whole narrative that there is that they're being funneled into syria is not something we're sure of and what we know is that there are so many syrians mostly civilians were being killed the number of times four thousand now and for this killing to stop i think the only way that looks feasible at this point is to have some sort of foreign protection and this one protection should not only or can not only be military it can be any other thing and we've seen the arab league start with economic sanctions with political sanctions i think so far there has been

putting the pressure and all the arab league options or all the steps that have been taken so far to my mind keep the solution away from nato or any other western military intervention because short of any solutions economic sanctions and political social sanctions are probably going to work because look at the neighborhood ok we had a rock that they abstained from any kind of resolution that would uphold those sanctions and etc etc i mean they're not going to bite really monsour if i go back to you what's the next step for the what's the next step for the west to do to recognize the opposition in exile right now as a legitimate government and take a seat at the arab league you think you see that happening. well it's a quickly just i want to say never a dull position in syria and that the puppet council of the west never criticize israel and i would like your guest to cite one time in any document that they could

to size israel so he certainly has not decided to let me say a lot of things why not he she says i want to get israel to sign a janitor which is just going to do so little to get a ministerial meeting on the ranch and the reality of jenin you can't talk over each other and let me finish i knew you had your eye on the west the west is not capable not that they don't desire from the beginning they would love to have a situation where they could interfere like in libya but they know that the price will be so high because there is a large support popular support for their jeep and we could see that from the demonstration that has been going on for hundreds of thousands of billion in the millions hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of syrians are supporting that if. they are not able or capable to and the west i'm talking about the west and the nato to interfere militarily because they will be defeated if they attempted and they were attempting to stage from turkey. is what i am doing western

military intervention some of them want to go into the guys to start a civil war so do will be a pretext and the plan is to really to cripple syria but there is no one is interested in which unfortunately i don't listen to you and i write another and parents grandparents going to harris go ahead. i just like to say that no i don't think anyone in the syrian opposition is asking for a western military in that venture not even a military intervention all that's being requested is a human who some leaders say should something milder than they ask or really or that this can i think can i please finish it's a humanitarian corridor also that injured protesters who cannot go to the state hospitals because they're infiltrated by regime thugs who kidnapped them tortured them or even on their own. and thank you gentlemen we're going to jump in here once you start violating a country's sovereignty then it's a slippery slope ok i'm not saying i don't have compassion for for injured people but you do go down

a slippery slope because you know the number of people that were dying when there was an uprising in libya was pretty low comparing compared to the bombing of nato later ok do you get my point i mean. but considering libya considering the arab league support with regard to libya had there been no intervention and of course there have been faults with the nato intervention no one's saying the contrary the city of benghazi would have been completely wiped out and we don't know that we don't know that we have no idea about that's not true but they were saying and there has been crimes that were ok a moment of silence here ok you were saying that i'm going to you and i you know i'd like to change the subject ok change direction here how much is syria being plain is a pawn in the region because we have so the interest we have iranian interest we have hezbollah i mean there's a lot going on there syria is very strategic far more strategic then libya ever is libya has oil but syria is strategically located and it's powder keg of something

really really continues to go wrong there go ahead. well i think you are right syria has been at the crossroads orian of so many things so far whether whether you know regarding their israeli conflict or many other issues in the region but let me just say why do we keep on pushing the issue of syria to regional and you know issues that are pertaining to the west and israel was or just said that there have been hundreds of thousands and maybe millions going out on the streets of syria and supports president assad now let me ask this question how come the terrorists never attack these demonstrations how come these demonstrations are always peaceful and broadcast on national t.v. whereas the other. protests have been under attack from so-called terrorists i mean you know this narrative i have a minute i'm taking issue with this particular narrative that's coming from assad and that's that mansour is repeating right here and then we keep on pushing this

all the things we're we're using info to come for let me answer your right it's a good questions in advance or you just go we've seen footage is from. b.b.c. and others who are opposing that it jamie are waging a million media campaign to get that those there we never saw mostly those that they have slogans they have demonstrated in. peacefully demonstrating. there's no at back on them so if you are interested in a peaceful demonstration then why don't position will not from the beginning or even up to now accept a dialogue with energy who if if you are really interested in what is what are the issues in syria and the anyone else that you are citizens are in the woods and this is any element you know you are going to someone's house and there was and this is not the only western there was and you see now as a lot of young adults do here is why you did not happen. that's why we're going to

do the losers and there are some i just in my head my unless one is in the think syria all right general is going to paris go ahead and go ahead and just with regard to what monza just said the regime has lost clearly all legitimacy i mean you cannot go kill your own people massacred thousands of people torture what not and still would like to enter negotiations i don't see any possibility of negotiating with someone who has clearly overstepped the limits of humanity and then going back to the question which peter asked which i thought find very interesting the other day i was aware that the possibility of him for us is almost killed and i finished criminal this is also the syrian regime the the fall of the regime if i may just could answer the question that peter raised which was very interesting the fall of the regime doesn't necessarily serve western or saudi or even any type of interest it serves first and foremost the interest of the syrian people and further we should not believe and this is goes back to the initial point

that saudi arabia would be in favor of seeing a democracy being erected in syria i mean this goes beyond the ideological stances of saudi arabia we saw it in the cedar of the revolution of lebanon where saudi completely abandoned the democratic movement because it went way beyond its control so we mustn't presume this to oprah western type of. generality where you have. and then you have the pro western people i mean it goes much deeper than that as we saw and behind in the saudis completely have to jump in here a very interesting topic we didn't resolve anything thank you very much only want to thank my guests today in washington and in paris and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember. if you want to.