the violence. ten year anniversary since when tom obey greeted its first prisoners has been marked by protests in the u.s. and abroad people took to the streets demanding the release of those still held in jail president obama about to close. those they had lines now so my five dreams come true scientists say silicon brain and a plastic body are just a couple of decades away on next hour he talks to russian researcher alexander couple to discuss these exciting prospects. hello again the welcome to. the hot seat i'm all there not today my guest is. russian scientists are ready to make their is some dreams come true they say. in

a plastic body just a couple of decades away does that mean so potentially deadly were in danger will be carried out by. people one of the potential of science is being exaggerated and when. the cells in our local hardware store for our answers to these questions we're asking a problem new out psychologist and a number of projects through russia twenty forty five aleksandr. after james cameron's movie avatar shadow box office records the concept of mind control cyber widely popular many scientists claim it's not that difficult to design a prototype avatar but producing a prototype is still science fiction and may take comprehensive years however a number of scientists behind the russia twenty five initiative claim it's realistic by the middle of the century they want avatars brain transplant patient

and artificial intelligence to be as real as space flight and computers are nowadays they also want to be the world leader science. thank you for coming to our show. and like to ask you the following. twenty forty five movements the clues that one of its main objectives is the creation of the artificial body and the preparation of man. transfer it to it's also aim to create an international ideological center for the development of technological breakthrough scenarios in russia to police go probably or does this phrase mean there russia undertakes to provide ideological backing for the main project in just that school for. you know the movement comprises several dozen professional research scientists of course there may have different opinions i personally

believe russia has long been a center of scientific and intellectual development therefore it sure will be a powerhouse in fact it already is not only for technological and theoretical developments particularly in through practical application of fundamental science so the also work to apply science practically in russia there are labs in research centers for that of course especially in recent years because practical applications help raise the money to finance fundamental research security what the name of the russia twenty forty five movement suggests a timeline and honestly i find it a bit confusing not only because i'm a journalist but also because i remember reading. when i was a kid. with an ear taking the sum of money to speak within twenty years is a rationale is that twenty years is long enough. for the emir today let said why have you chosen such a distant timeframe as thirty years are you not going to report on your progress

before the time is up. to be precise it's thirty five years who are looking at it but that is the stated objective and it's rather declaratory it's a matter for what the movement itself is about we imply that by that time approximately should be able to create working models of all the main human body systems. however as an expert on brain science i can tell you that we probably most likely will not be. to replicate them brain by two thousand and forty five will have developed all the main technology is. one thing i don't understand science and technology is not an uphill road where you see a destination in which you have to walk until you get there if you realize that something is possible and you already know how to do it technically why not do it today why wait until twenty forty five and that's the thing with science there are prospects projected expectations and there are approaches to implementation but all

of them need to be very fired and tested we may have an understanding of how it can be done in theory but you don't know how to actually do it really isn't an opulent in that we don't know the way in advance finance europe aeration first of all there are scientific and sponsor scientific research teams or search secondly there will be private investment in promising to colleges. as a research advances in this area nereus cutting edge inventions will emerge in the process finally there will be a business around to our research with some of the results being commercialized on the spot. movement has addressed the president of russia with a message why did he do it. and governmental support. for this. course when you it's not even so much funding that we want from the government but rather an understanding that science in general requires support from the state

today as it cannot finance itself we are putting forth a far reaching and to provide a framework for such support because you said the brain went on to be possible to replicate by the year twenty forty five. it meanwhile brain is your main area of research yes we do you envisage coming close at some point to explaining the phenomenon of this old. scientists who do your research on the brain realize that the marine is in material organ which functions according to some rules change so we study the mechanisms behind those functions and in explaining these mechanisms we have no need for the concept of this so that there is this psyche as a mental state in functions which is a comprehensive matter and that's what we seek to explain how it all works within the brain lot that it was. well then what about the ailing human soul you know that

feeling don't you. everybody does when nothing hurts physically your mental state is all right and you feel that your soul is a feeling. that is true it's just that we use different notions to describe the same phenomenon we have in ourselves our mental self and we we have an entire personal world. which is much a reacher and then the outside world what if it's this personal world within us that we actually sense it we can always express it right we can almost never express it to the directly take artificial intelligence mind as it need to have a similar inexpressible something inside it to be able to compete with human mind or is it impossible precisely describe the difference you know do you feel just like humans do you need to have your personal inner world i'm personally convinced that no robot nor its official mind will ever be capable of creating

a personal world similar to that of a human being an artificial intelligence will never match human intellect if you imply that artificial intelligence should be absolutely similar or even identical to human mind i'd say never you however artificial intelligence meant as an assistant to human intellect he's already in the works that is feasible but there was a short the take the for example in sentiment can akin to a turn a computer isn't. an s. computer technology advances it increasingly comes to assist. there is something i've wanted to ask you about steven segal hollywood actor just publicly supported your project saying it is the combination of science and religion that it gives to him with regard to a concept such then you know he. is meanwhile it seems to me that you negate religion and any abstract notions you prefer to stick to specifics do you think there is room for faith in religion in your project. you know i actually don't

negate religion because religion is an objective phenomenon i mean in your project our project has no room for mysticism it is a purely technological project it is essentially about the possibility of using all of the fundamental science together with the technological achievements to reproduce and where possible improve substitute certain organs of the human body that term to malfunction over time they're working on that all over the world that there's been a lot of research to produce an artificial heart the liver and kidneys still haven't managed to go to some the way that it will work with the brain. you know i find it perplexing you say there is no room for mysticism in your project but how can there be no room for mysticism in a project that aspires to replicate the human organism or some of its components there is a mystery about any part of any cell of the human body any physician how the human

hand works or the elbow and shoulder joints it's a mystery not to mention the brain or the heart it's a mystery to all the. well when i prehistoric man saw a rock rolled down and he probably thought what a mystery here where it all turned out that there is newton's law of gravitation it's the same in our case anything too complex for our understanding we call a mystery but complex things tend to become simple as we study and explain them yes because we studied we go deeper and there are more complexities waiting so there is no into mystery including your project. indeed in that sense we are to some mysteries so you are deeply convinced that there is a realistic explanation to be found behind every mystery sealing it across the sea when you are confident there is an up and sure of the rest of the people feeling along will have to go under and they may even drown being certain that there is no opposite shore assembly you will make it. the church of those and you are purpose is not even to explain a mystery the point is that while we seek to explain

a mystery we get a deeper understanding of the world. should there be antagonism between science and religion while exploring the world i think not there is no integrity as man never has been and that is just the shortcoming self either method when they provide conflicting explanations. with science and religion are two equal illegitimate methods for understanding the world one of them is based on facts that scientists seek to verify and replicate in an experiment and the other one is based on facts that you are simply supposed to believe in each and there is no clash no these are two different methods each with its own means and its own interpretation of results in fact sometimes there is soused each other a great deal because if someone believes that the world exists in harmony well in physical terms harmonies the laws of nature and then you can seek to discover and study these laws says alexander of the problem and you're a psychologist and then russia twenty forty five move it will be back shortly

after we take a break so stay with us. no it's not about spilling blood. it's the war of the barricades from one side and fears blockade from the other. invisible border has cut people from the land for twelve years. the conflict that divided serbia into two hostile parts is still not over. this is our time to reclaim the american dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth

that out of many we are won that war we breed the we hope. to me the american dream is to live in peace and prosperity and freedom and a government under socialism is not a government a free. man free. to. have very motivated out cross the country who are activists who are willing to fight for what they think is right for themselves but in fact this forty foot bridge that. we are crowding in property drowning and i think it's threatening our lives it's cutting off our. it's making real democracy. all but impossible.

it's six. days. six.

just to my guest in the studio. the problem that russian neuropsychologist number project russia twenty forty five. mystical plan was used told us that creating artificial intelligence there would be similar to the human brain is not on the agenda and probably never will be there is no need for that is there. you know that smart personal opinion very well may be that our movement will declare it possible you know but i think that it is technically impossible to replicate the human brain it was impossible technically impossible. let's narrow it down a bit what about artificial intelligence there's limited to a specific area it is able to make decisions on its own spot so this is maybe controversial but these are decisions it makes in its own. sure why not but it is

capable of making decisions even though it knows it may be wrong is it possible you know at the end of the day everything will be based on programming but the. programming of this artificial intelligence that's how the program works. will do whatever we authorize it to do when artificial intelligence plays chess goes over possibly as a human player thinks it over. exactly do you want to think will work mechanically of course we wanted to think because it's impossible to go over all the variants they have these huge computers even with a chance board it's difficult computers are so powerful in the past today that it's possible but in other areas of life the number of possible variance is much bigger and you can't forsee all of them so you want to think it will make decisions of its own and that means it will make mistakes yes when dealing with complex problems or

problems that involve some uncertainty or probabilities you need a kind of intuition that a. only humans have the most humans only so you don't want the computer making mistakes about. well we can't replicate such a complex mechanism as the human brain computer with now we've actually talked about this a little bit already but is it possible for a computer to have a soul it's a key will its own or its own imagination but can computers compose music because the music that computers compose today is awful. music of course but it's so terrible that it's the second worst thing after what russian pop artists produce. is it possible for a computer to have imaginations. imagination not in the vulgar sense of the word but as a psychological phenomenon is impossible but also because imagination is based on your personal human experience when your psyche point to your perception of the

world that you have generated in the course of your life but how can a computer have such a psyche all it can do is mechanically and use certain rules to extract the data from down so. i see you need senses not only data storage needs both senses and emotional response to the fact that you can counters. to valuate the situation in the environment the circumstances how can a machine to do that in other words we can load a machine with data mechanical the machines don't have a subjective reaction to those facts machines don't forget things right machines don't forget they're remember everything. but in fact when people forget something they do it for a reason they remember only those things that they really need. it has made some reading on the subject and she was amazed by the huge progress developers of brain computer interface have made over the last couple of decades here's the story.

this is why did you want is no room. science fiction. could be a small machine like this one quite a sophisticated robot asked mentally to perform a particular movement that's how the next step in remote controlled acknowledges looks like instead of pushing buttons they'll be putting on some bizarre looking headwear and thinking mechanisms will read electrical charges from the user's brain and translate them into movement have an artificial borders operated while asleep by thought alone in the avatar movie does not seem unrealistic but while it's still a matter of far off future brain computer interface research already helps repairing damage side or hearing by means of specially blondes then there's great advice in bio nickel ems people with disabilities can control artificial border

parts by thinking about moving and material from which those body parts are made is becoming more and more sophisticated newer scientists have allowed humans to control the movements of machines however transferring one's consciousness into a biological body is quite a challenge throughout the last couple of centuries science fiction has done a great job it inspiring technological innovation james cameron's blockbuster definitely got inventors thinking hard. that we saw just now it's not new it's been on t.v. it's been in the news so when we actually buy it it's they have this kind of chips that we didn't always see here is a headset but when we have chips that would be implanted in their brain so you can control c computers cars and so on him to put it that way it is my personal opinion is that this will never happen when you are needed right but only first for ethical

reasons why would you implant something in the brain of a perfectly healthy person. you should only be done when necessary not with healthy people but you know a logical if this doesn't make sense but that was first we don't know which part of the brain we should connect it to the human brain has a hundred billion nerve cells and many many more connections between them but at the we don't know where to who. at this point theoretically impossible. that there's even in theory yes even in theory so it's out of the question then. when people are finally able to use artificial intelligence chips artificial bodies and so on do you think this may give them an unfair advantage over others for example if there is such a thing inequality in the play and now there will be also technological inequality just like in sports you think people can be fairly and some take seriously you

think it's possible i just cut. what it was. well like i said it would be both wrong and impossible to implant chips and people will when you pray that they knew what we can do is create some devices that track down some. of our brain activities and these signals can then be used to control some external devices that can help you with these things are possible of course this involves some inequality just like what is happening when you see one person walking down the street in another person driving a car is that the one person is moving faster than the other but this inequality can be easily compensated for perhaps this man doesn't like driving that's why he walks. how about artificial bodies the things we saw in every tear and surrogates is it feasible or is it merely saying fiction at this point over the oil if we can find a way to get signals from the brain and then use those signals to control some

devices can we just so that we can. so how the brain can control in order to show a hand yes we dealing with we do that in my lab with a computer interface yes we already have it so that's possible. we are at the very beginning of the. sun principle it will be possible to control the prosthetic hand and other devices including sarah good buddies. it's possible since long as it helps people. have a quote of yours right here it sounds like something that script writers may use for a sequel to avatar. but you say quote if you put the brain in events can have several bodies were different occasions but you. still wouldn't partial just so one day you go tonight for two more you go months and climbing the next day do something else

that is what i mean is that the brain is the most valuable organ usually it is the last we're going to die. so if you create necessary conditions for it after the body is no longer able to support it. possible for the brain to live on but the question is does the brain need this kind of life just a person within the brain want this exactly other people may need this point in member a professor delos head exam to be. better who do you think people want to live that long with a permanent position told me once that by the time people live to be one hundred and thirty years old psychologically they don't want to live any longer it's kind of like when you get sleepy at the end of the day you don't want to stay awake we want to go to bed the brain can get tired of life. you know it's hard for us to decide for a person that would have faced such a choice where we could talk to people who are know and it in fifteen at this point

they don't have a choice of living they want to live another fifty years. i don't think they all would say that they don't want to live an hour longer has anybody actually asked them personally i talked to two people one was a little over a hundred years and the other one was almost a hundred years old one of them said i'd like to live a little longer i asked him why he said i'm curious to see what everything will look like in the future so you're still interested that's the main thing. it is important that they should have an opportunity to have this kind of life i was going to lose it do you think this will make people better are you doing all these things in order to make people better if not why are you doing that just because progress can stop rolling down a hill or you know i'm a researcher and this is interesting to me it is interesting to know how the brain works what it is capable off so why study this we don't know yet what the limits of those capabilities are and what we'll see i mean to well i'm interested in the way people are today this way to this show thank you very much for being with us and

just a reminder that my guest in the studio was alexander a couple of the problems new a psychologist and number two project russia twenty forty five and that's a follow up from all of us here if you want to have your cell spotlight just drop me a line spotlight will be back with more first i'll comment on what's going on in and out so i don't know stay up and take it it as .

the prices in relations between washington and tehran is aggravated by the assassination of a fourth iranian scientist into here as iraq claims israel and america. the first foreign journalist killed in syria's unrest a french camera man was mortally wounded by a grenade in what the country's authorities say was a terrorist attack. and ten years after the infamous one time obey greeted its first prisoners people in the u.s. and abroad demand the release of those still held in the jail the president obama vowed to close.