sobs shop in protest over proposed u.s. anti-piracy legislation critics fear the bill could lead to what they call genuine pirates that is major media outlets taking over the web. and occupy activists have descended on congress and the white house saying it's now money that makes all the decisions at the top but the event didn't live up to the hype of organizing earth who had hoped to draw tens of thousands. next it's peter the bells debate so cross talk. world. leads technology innovation all the moves developments around russia we've gone through a few jerks covered. and you can. start.

blowing welcome to cross talk on people about taunting turnaround on a wider range of issues the standoff between iran and western powers has ratcheted up is the west preparing for a military confrontation with the islamic republic what role does israel play in the scheme of things and how much of this standoff is really generated by domestic political agendas. and you can. start. to cross talk around the news i'm joined by solemn duty in los angeles he is the executive director of the muslim public affairs council in irvine we have soraya separate or ehrlich she is an independent researcher writer and political commentator and in london we cross to mark fitzpatrick he's director of nonproliferation and disarmament program at the international institute for strategic studies our focus is crosstalk and that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it so i if i go to you first iran's very much in the

news here we have murders we have sanctions we have military maneuvers we have calls for an attack on iran is this a drumbeat to war is it inevitable. good morning too good to be back on your show again it seems this the west actually american is really attempting to provoke iran into a war because the consequences it will have on the world and not just the region does not justify american military action which is what they've been wanting to do for decades you know because they do want regime change so they're trying to provoke iran by basically choking her off and hoping that iran would retaliate one way or the other in which case then they can start their military action and it's really very very foolish and very dangerous mark if i can go to you and your yeah i was going to ask you mean we just heard from from there from irvine that this is

really all about regime change you green without because we all you know people talk about you know the nuclear program but is it really about regime change. no this is about the nuclear program that's the behavior and the policy that is got people concerned certainly there are some people in washington throughout the united states who are seeking regime change some of them write about it openly but when your other guest talks about the day in the united states trying to provoke iran i'm certain that it's not washington's policy to provoke iran washington is trying to do all it can that is the obama administration trying to do all it can to calm their partners who might be looking for military action united states recently postponed important. sending senior military leaders to israel to consult about this to advise that no let's pursue all the more american if i

could just jump in here if i could jump in we had tim geitner going around the world trying to get countries not to import a rainy and oil i mean from trans perspective that's basically an act of war you're going to choke off their economy why should be why should these people be punished . it's punishing into your relationship between the economic sanctions and military action one is within the realm of the. peaceful measures the other something that could spark a war. just could spark a war in itself. go back to you go ahead in fact many make the mistake of implying the sanctions are just peaceful means they're not they are coersion they killed innocent and for the latest round of sanctions i mean you go back to iraq has a million children died the future of iraq was destroyed and madeline albright

turned around the said it was worth it now you apply sanctions because you don't want to expend the military expenses you can also iran and hope to sit back and have no casualties and that the war chest would definitely be depleted so sanctions are imposed hoping the iranian people would get so fed up they would overthrow their own regime and it hasn't worked for the two years so they're trying other ways other means of making this happen sanctions all the music not that it's just a collapse and it's not calling for overthrow of the regime they're calling for the iranian government to realize that the cost is too great and to change the policy is not to call for they're not calling for a change of government ok it's going to what do you think about all this we have you heard our other two guests go ahead. well i think number one if anyone needs to change what's happening inside iran whether it's foreign policy or

its domestic infrastructure it's the iranian people and much of the problems of western policies in the past and unfortunately to this day is that there is no support and there is no confidence in the people of the region whether we're talking about the iraqi people or in this case we're talking about the iranian people it's the iranian people that need to be empowered to deal with the problems of iran in terms of the nuclear issue if the united states were really serious about disarmament and nonproliferation in that region it would call for regional nuclear disarmament including israel india pakistan and then work on non-polar proliferation more effectively with iran we support any nonmilitary means of achieving. regional security and global security but anything that goes down the path of war is going to be counterproductive to the united states and will be perceived as the united states only doing the business of israeli interest in the

region not even serving its own interests interesting so if i go back to you again you know looking at the western mainstream media and looking at politicians i mean any talk of engagement any talk of negotiations is considered sok religious it's you can't say we need to sit down we need to talk honestly i mean the brazilians and the turks did it and they came up with a deal and then obama walked away from it because it was an american deal ok i mean it can be done can it or it just there's a certain so many parties in the west that just don't want to try they want regime change and countries like israel are openly calling for an attack on iran. well that that's absolutely right peter you've put it well in a nutshell it has never been about diplomacy with iran diplomacy and coersion are two different things from the onset of the revolution america attempted to undermine the regime there was a noisy or knows

a coup in one nine hundred eighty to overthrow the regime in iran and then one thing led to another it's always been model sanctions it is encouraging the war against iran america does not want this regime in iran because for one its claim sovereignty and the first thing it did was to show america close a door in america america's always a pro open door policy wish it means marcus was consumer goods and iran just closed the door and of course then there's israel after the end of the world after the end of the cold war israel felt it's no longer useful to america and the america right wing media so they occupy it in fact the university is the media hollywood and think tanks to present iran and islam as a threat to the west and all this is just baseless and the people there are happy to go around with this mindset the media and the things i and there are

a lot of them over the most part are affiliated with the nuclear industrial military industrial complex so it does benefit them to have wars and israel of course keeps getting by pointing to iran as a threat israel's constantly getting a from the united states while the people in this country are sleep without a home on the streets and they're without jobs i mean sanctions are expensive they're taking jobs away from american people ok mark you i know you want to jump sorry let's go to mark and let me. mark first there's something very certain you agree with there was just said that there is a way that islam has been. characterized. you know cartoonish often in the united states with that but by the same token the characterization of the united states seeking war and you know. they're not ready for

negotiations that's also a cartoonish mischaracterization president obama is right today seeking engagement with his russian chinese french german and british partners with iran they're trying to get something going to try to find a negotiated way hard to market and yes they are when it was just about their answer to the question what about you know i mean you have sanctions on the one hand and you want to have negotiations on the other hand i mean there aren't the kind of antithetical. you know i think that sanctions can strengthen the negotiation hand. ok i understand there's an impact on the other side that doesn't like the sanctions but throughout diplomatic history negotiations between the cold war the united states and the soviet union there were sanctions after sanctions and yet there were negotiations successful on arms control yes the two paths can be followed at the same time ok it's interesting so i'm going back to negotiations isn't really the problem there are students can i jump in here and they say there's just no mutual respect and that's the biggest problem when we have negotiations

here because there is no market when you are a part of the soviet union in the united states had many agreements go ahead sir. yeah i think the problem with it is beyond whether we're looking at it as occurred in a cartoonish manner or not in fact if you listen to the republican debates and and watch the media unfortunately here in the united states islam is continuously demonized and muslims are continually asked are they really part of western society or if they're part of the fifth column so it's more than looking at islam as in a cartoonish way it is real demonization of a slam and real dehumanisation of muslims and that usually leads to a confrontational policies by the west against muslim countries the problem in the case of iran on this issue of nuclear armament is that it is singled out as the threat we don't deal with north korea the same way we deal with iran with other

countries we utilize the. the international atomic energy association we use malta collateral instruments to deal with the nuclear problem in this case of iran there is no dialogue there is no good negotiations it is all confrontational policies that is part of a war mongering mentality here in the united states and they're just which they're just waiting for the trip wire for somebody to trip over and this you know you're going to insure it will go tomorrow after that you know i'm doing short break but we'll continue our discussion down the road stayed with our people. and. if you want to.

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wealthy british style sign. passed out on the tires. market why not come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's cars or for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to kaiser report on our g. . od. and if you. still. want to. welcome back to crossfire i'm going. i'll remind you we're talking about iran and the west.

ok mark i want to go back to you in london because right before the break i could just see you were just waiting with baited breath to say something so go here. well first of all i agree with what salaam said about this very dangerous misperceptions and mischaracterizations of islam i really understand what he's saying there but i want to reinforce that mis characterizations of the united states are also wrong and it is the obama administration's policy as it is the negotiating partners to have a deal secret deal with iran and it is iran that back when they last met in istanbul a year ago refused to meet one on one with the united states the united states and its partners had tabled confidence building measure that iran didn't want to talk about let's hope that they are now ready to talk the idea that maybe the pressure has given them more reasons to talk maybe realistic but so far i don't think you

know that all this blaming the united states is correct it takes two to tango let's let's have some real talks united states is ready you know what mark if i could to stay with you i mean in looking at the presidential when we're looking at the presidential election here the republicans i mean any talk of reconciliation any talk of negotiations is seen as weakness and i think that's one of the biggest problems and one of things i'd like to talk about in this part of the program is domestic issues ok because you have so many every single major player in these events here have a have a domestic agenda ok obama wants to look strong on iran ok but if the same time say well give him a chance but you know we saw that before and we can see the iranians as well i mean we look at the revolutionary guard they don't want to look weak either this is really turning into a dangerous situation because it gets down to a game of chicken. there are domestic very very difficult to mistake environments both in washington and in tehran. in washington yes obama is a walking a very delicate tightrope he's seeking negotiations he doesn't want to look weak

when the sanctions bill was last passed by the u.s. senate obama tried to make it more. flexible and he was denied so he's yes he is the number one issue that the republicans are trying to throw at him for being weak you know if he ran wants the republicans to come into office and really promote policies that might be more likely to lead to war they want to deny obama any chance of a negotiated settlement but if they want to try to seek a peaceful way out give him a chance let's you know come and talk to the united states ok so if i can go to you if you look at. something here i just add one thing you got one thing before that yes i agree i agree that government diplomacy has failed on both sides whether it's western countries with iran or iran towards western countries that's why i believe there's an important component that we are ignoring and that is grassroots

diplomacy it is the uranian people and the american people who should build more bridges cultural bridges even religious bridges between one another that will move their countries more towards policies of cooperation and away from policies of confrontation so you want to jump in there and peter there if you have or they're doing that very well the united states and israel by killing iranian scientists they're carrying out acts of terror and they claim that they want to reach out to the iranian people you know not involved in the diplomacy here i did i did not interrupt to not interrupt me mr obama was never about diplomacy while he was a presidential candidate is he. a pac and he said that he's going to reach out to iran says to speak so he can bring on. the rest of the world to sanction iran when he was a junior senator he wrote a very crippling bill and put it through to congress to sanction iran mr obama

renewed apacs sanctions just as he was sending news is new year's eve greeting to to the iranian people he is not here about. diplomacy he is about serving a pack now is very clever george w. bush was not as clever but obama is very good at concealing his real motives and and what is really odd you talk about diplomacy one on one grassroots the iranian people even today and the united states of america they have something called health diplomacy they're doing research on the aids they're doing research on cancer and how to treat the chemical burns this was actually a result of the united states supplying iraq with chemical weapons so they are working together it's just that america as you say domestic politics cannot move on because for too long it's demonized iran and to satisfy the israelis who do not

want another great power in their backyard they're catering to israel and there. is remark if i can go to you it looks like to me that the political elite israel wants to make sure obama is a one term president because i want a republican in office because they are disappointed with mr obama for reasons i can't figure out but he's not their man ok and this is one of the go back to the republican campaign right now in the united states mean that's one of the reasons why it's so high on the agenda because they want to trip him up on this issue here and that's coming from a pac that's coming from israel. peter israel also has a very complicated political environment you had the defense minister eight who had barack praising obama's diplomacy you had another israeli cabinet member criticizing him certainly it's no secret that netanyahu and obama don't get along

but to talk about the israeli elite as though it's one. dimensional anti israel behemoths because they don't like having another power in the region you know this is about iran's nuclear program that is threatening the state of israel when iran talks about erasing israel from the pages of history well in pursues the reason is that they don't you know it's not entirely clear that it's not entirely clear that was ever there was a bad translation of what the president of iran had to say so i go ahead i absolutely peter and israel has two three hundred nuclear warheads it's been supplied by dolphin submarines by germany which can which can actually cause nuclear have a there it's got one of the biggest strongest army in the whole world and it's one of the biggest arms exporter so how can iran even if it's private even if it chose to weaponize its nuclear program which it has not done it will not be a minus for israel plus if ever iran attacked israel the united states would come

down so hard on it so to say that iran is a threat to israel is just a joke and only you know i agree with you on that were you know i can agree with you but i don't worry because i've been here that's not going to say let me just say two things let me just say two things i want to build on serous point if the united states is serious about regional security in the middle east today and is concerned about nuclear weapons it should demand for nuclear disarmament of israel if it is serious about nuclear nonproliferation in iran if it is not serious about it and it just wants to target iran then just saying. so and stop playing this game number two and i think you have to realize what and it's no use of iran has nuclear weapons it's just that it is really just finish let me just let me just finish let me just finish the other point here which is very important historically the united states has done a lot of dirty work that has served the interests of israel destroyed iraq it

supported the destruction and crippling of egypt it has crippled the gulf and now it is looking to iran as the next target for crippling and destroying i think this is madness who is driving our foreign policy president obama or prime minister netanyahu let's be clear american foreign policy should serve the interests of the united states he was. telling you know the states israel not to attack ok mark mark i mean since i don't know your next exactly so why do i want to i want to well you know i was ally i want to ask you what is a liability to what i do i want to ask mark a question and answer is that being an expert on nonproliferation and disarmament i mean iran's nuclear program is the most researched picked away program of any nuclear research program in history ok i mean the last. report was

recycled report from the one before i guess they're still you know flogging the what the the the vote the lab top ok that they found a few allegedly found a few years ago i mean just just exactly what extra does a ran have to do because it is a member of the nonproliferation treaty and it does let inspectors in it has inspectors in i mean what more do you want to do. i wanted to answer the question it's going to be lower than i was unsure they were going to go for war and this from ten different countries was in the report it wasn't just the recycled stuff from one laptop they had cooperated information from ten different countries and iran was obviously working on nuclear weapons development idea why don't they mention answer though i don't. have my opinion is where they want it what ten countries were they wasn't mentioned in the report and there's a lot of speculation and i think into the israelis and the israelis gave me ask are you seriously suggesting that iran was not working on nuclear weapons development

it's pretty clear that they were you asked me what does iran have to do they have to use questions and then they'll have to point is marrone common we know you're going to get to the new line nuclear facilities and you are somewhat there is still can i jump in here what do you have to do in accordance with the i.a.e.a. rules no. mark the i honestly if i think all these things when i'm president i'll start on this time they go to. go ahead thank you. thank you the united states just from what you know it's on the table receives twenty five percent of its funding from the united states the i.a.e.a. basically kowtows to american foreign policy is a political tool even of that it did not say that he ran his weaponized thing so i don't know marc you may have information you would like to share with the i that's not not from the terrorist cult that mossad and israel are supporting them which i

had enough and america is considering of the listing as a foreign terrorist organization may be not information from them but if you have genuine information that iran is weaponized thing then i think is it your duty as a citizen of whichever country you belong to to presented to the world because that is just the way as far as. you are and your libeling me here i know there are forty five paragraphs in the i.a.e.a. report that detail all of the evidence about nuclear weapons related work or work the very much appears to be nuclear weapons related now that is what iran has to respond to you asked me what does iran have to do answer those questions and follow the rules about reporting new nuclear facilities we've all run out of time folks a very interesting program a fascinating discussion point many thanks to my guest today in los angeles irvine and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at the see you next time remember prospects if.

you. want to.

moscow reaffirms its push for talks to solve serious standing and downs any military intervention and pledging to and sort of the un doesn't sanction it. the well of knowledge dries up for a day as the world's most popular online encyclopedia joins the protests over plans u.s. copyright laws which were the previous says threatens internet freedom. and occupy activists mark four months of their movement by taking on the white house and capitol hill to get the numbers they wanted.