and this is still on the table i think it would be a very bad option but the latter one to use one of the big problems with iran is that if you get into a. an open confrontation military confrontation your risk a cycle of retaliation and response. with great difficulty seeing where the end point is the question one may ask is how does washington continue talking wars with so many americans against them i have a hard time thinking of any example of any issue on which the conduct of our government in washington corresponds with majority opinion war is not some kind of exception the public is against bailouts for bankers the public is against subsidies for energy companies the public is against wars the public is against just about every decision made on important issues in washington the fact of the matter is that majority of americans don't want any new wars on their plate poll showed they were opposed to u.s. involvement in libya as well but the government went about it anyway many says that

the rift between what americans want and what leaders do in the name of the american people is getting larger i'm going to check our reporting from washington r.t. . we continue to keep an eye on developments around iran and the world other flashpoints that are to dot com and the other stories there too here is what's on my way past as political playing field be alack some software pukes claves of parliamentary violations while the sort lists is announced as who is running for president people all the developments in the politics section of our team dot com. and nature given our way and night to remember sit back and enjoy the show with one of the most spectacular northern lights displays in a long time it's on our t.v. it's time for you right now. but the delegates in davos have got their money on the table today as the world economic forum assesses the dollar the euro and the

one struggling eurozone in the future of heavily indebted greece is inevitably on the cards with cautious optimism and criticism alike or does loyalists or isn't davus. we heard from a number. of ministers and also from vice president of the economic and monetary affairs for the european commission we heard them all speak today in a panel and strike an optimistic note that they believe that things will be resolved now many people would disagree with that but as far as the people on stage . and was confident that the greek bondholders will come to an agreement on greek debt write downs and haircuts this week and that's kind of what made the major headlines and also believing that the fiscal compact the tighter fiscal compact for the eurozone will come together and a meeting on monday and that would impose of course fines for people that are countries rather break the deficit and debt ceiling rules we saw today that spain

their unemployment rate came out a seventeen year high of twenty two point eight five percent the finance minister from spain says that this is the biggest issue facing the spanish economy and we know spain is one of the largest economies in europe also a lot of disagreement over euro zone solutions we've seen george soros we've seen david cameron we've seen some finance ministers to timothy geithner say a larger fire wall is needed basically saying more bailout funds need to be committed from angela merkel's remarks we heard earlier this week she was trying to convince people that europe would be fine without pledging more money timothy geitner we did hear from today the u.s. treasury secretary i thought was pretty interesting he said that the two biggest issues facing the u.s. economy that will determine its outcome are what happens in the euro zone and whether or not the u.s. congress can agree on some short term solutions for the u.s. economy i thought this was quite interesting because although yes the eurozone economy very much weighs on the united states i've heard from italian economists for example that your and the u.s. they're much more pessimistic about europe and maybe part of that is coming from

the fact that it is an easy scapegoat for u.s. politicians to say oh what's going on in the u.s. is dependent on europe when in reality the u.s. has a major problems of its own a major debt overhang and pup. the fed has been very active in trying to reflate the economy but unaffected unaffected does far high unemployment more than sixteen percent for people that either don't have work or want more work you know these are some real issues that the euro zone has nothing to do it and a congress that is bitterly divided in an election year is not likely to pass much so some real concerns that are being addressed here. it's twenty two minutes past the hour a look at some other world news for you a blast of recession outside baghdad killing at least thirty two people and wounding sixty five explosions struck as mourners gathered to bury a person killed a day earlier there have been more than two hundred deaths since the beginning of the year with increasing sectarian attacks since american troops in december.

the firm that owns the capsized cruise ship off italy is coast is offering passengers fourteen thousand dollars each in compensation but also promises to refund medical and transport expenses the cost of the holiday sixteen people are confirmed dead well over a dozen remain missing the ship ran aground off tall skinny two weeks ago with more than four thousand people on board. sixteen kilos of cocaine have been seized at the un's headquarters in new york it turned out last week marked with a fake u.n. insignia and came from mexico the global body insists neither it nor its staff were the intended recipients is thought to have been a bungled attempt by traffickers to get drugs into the u.s. . well one of the most notorious terrorist in russia's north caucuses has been killed in a counter terror operation in the republic of. to my nail with a live was behind a market bombing in bloody cough cough in september twenty ten which killed nineteen people went to live with the head of the largest terrorist network in the

republic as well as one of the leaders of the international terror group because two other gunmen were also killed in the shootout which lasted several hours an explosive device an arms cache and a suicide belt were found in the building where the terrorists were hiding. and a few minutes cross-talk debates why the libyan militias who overthrew colonel gadhafi won't obey their new leaders but first let's check the business with the meeting. with. thanks and he's on the devils economic forum is displaying signs of a split personality this year the likes of the i.m.f. david cameron george soros are all warning of potential catastrophe is while on the other side a number of heavyweight industrialists who think much of the rescue work has been done among them is under a course in the head of russia's second largest bank. there

was a practical discussions on for example the introduction of new regulations for. banks and financial sector. but the lead it was on there was of course it will take maybe two to three years to implement it but at least there's not just a general debate some very practical things which is now being discussed though there's to debate on the future or to europe. a lot has it's a lot of discussions already happened between the politicians and it looks now the common solution in a much closer that was one or two years ago. despite global economic uncertainty russia's largest lenders burbank achieved strong results and twenty eleven his deputy chairman says the financial performances probably made it one of the world's top ten banks in the cost to income ratio burbank is now strongly counting on overseas expansion plans to make five percent profit abroad within three years to

get off told r.t. about the bank's expansion strategy. yes we launched offices in germany china and india last year but the most important thing is that we agreed to buy the eastern european volks bank international we're going to close the deal on the fifteenth of february and start operating in eight european countries we're also interested in polish in turkish markets it's hard to talk about the new deal so far but we see great opportunities for acquisitions. so you're going to be a market service but i will do it just a second the sale of a state. may take place this year deputy chairman of russia's central baghdad says the government is counting on the price of around one hundred rubles around three dollars per share the state is that i mean mind you selling a seven point six percent stake in the land and now as promised to the markets crude is heading for a week again in three on signs economic recovery in the us so may be taking place

the international monetary fund warns of a twenty to thirty percent oil price spike if the radio exports are up to brant. under eleven and a half dollars per barrel lights we just rely on the dollars. now moving on to stocks in the us they are mixed with the dow jones down around half a percent after the latest g.d.p. figures came out worse than expected in the final three months of twenty eleven g.d.p. in the u.s. group two point eight percent when it was expected that three percent growth would be shared and the nasdaq is up by just a notch. and europe investors slightly depressed too with the g.d.p. stats that just came out in the u.s. see is down three quarters of a percent the dax point two percent mining stocks and energy stocks are weighing on in the cities b.p. shares on losing around one point seven percent this hour. this is the closing picture for rush hour negative now for friday the obvious and down point four

percent i was the my six but overall the week was very strong with the r.t.s. up four point seven percent but my. sex one percent at the end of friday sessions burbank one of the few gators of purple heart of percent on my sex gas problem down one hundred percent and still make i am emma k. is down one point four percent with a market unimpressed with a seven percent production increase and twenty let. the market was generally pretty flat after quite a strong day yesterday the market in general was up about two and a half percent this week from monday almost and say four and a half percent in the last two weeks things look pretty healthy of the moment underneath your general straightening the market is some security asian people. investors appear to be selling oil and gas names and are buying more of banking names with names like a sperm bank and also in particular or even second tier banks all right finally

let's take a look at currencies add the ruble is slightly lower to the dollar bad weakening global demand for risk and some profit taking you had of the week you had the russian car seat is gaining like shuster knowledge versus the euro on the global market the euro in the year and the u.s. dollar pretty much the same. so the business news for now we will be back next hour with an update to join me if you can.

the issue is that so much of an idea that you should be sitting on the mark with libyan intervention like in the specter of civil war libya's transitional way from the gadhafi regime is proving far more problematic. at seven thirty pm mosque out time these are the top stories on r.t. we've obtained exclusive footage of syrian opposition fighters have taken control of a town just outside damascus that's as the un's due for a closed door talks in a few hours on a resolution which backs arab league calls to get president also to go. libya's new leaders face accusations of torture as doctors without borders pro out of a key city saying the same patients keep returning but with new interrogation

injuries it's raising key questions among human rights groups about the people nato helped bring to power. and the public politicians and hackers lash out against an international online piracy pact a french i mean he has quit over acto while rallies continue in poland stop the secretive deal hitting regular internet users. now peter the valen his cross-talk gas debate what's in store for the new libya. please. you can. start.

blowing welcome to cross talk i'm teetotal about libya intervention like in the specter of civil war libya's transition away from the gadhafi regime is proving far more problematic than nato planners had ever anticipated central civilian control is an illusion and tribal loyalty is strong it would appear it is a lot easier to take down a regime than to establish a new order. and you can. start. to cross out libya i'm joined by dr venter while in hanover he is an associate professor of government at dartmouth college in paris we cross to the end of jonestown she is an independent political commentator and author of fool's crusade yugoslavia nato and western delusions and in london we have nick mayo he is a foreign correspondent for the sunday telegraph all right folks this is cross talk that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it and i'd like to first go to diana diana is the the intervention that we saw nato undergo

was it an intervention without responsibility because libya is a mess and it's getting messier all the time and particularly in light of the last few hours a day or so of torture charges and the n.p.c. is proving to be very very inept. well that was perfectly foreseeable when you when you go in and change a regime by bombing you you're causing chaos. and they didn't seem to care that they were going to be causing chaos because they didn't like gadhafi and they seized an opportunity to get rid of leader that they didn't like figuring perhaps or wrongly that anything would be more favorable since any new leaders would be grateful to them for coming to power but that definitely remains to be seen ok nic if i go to you.

i'm going to do a play on words here i mean a lot of people see there was an illegitimate use of force with the u.n. resolution one nine hundred seventy three to overthrow gadhafi and because of that it would generate use of force we see illegitimate use of force also now after the fact in libya because there is no legitimate use of force by any central government . well there is real chaos on the ground in libya at the moment as a problem with militias as you say have been large numbers of people detained large numbers of people tortured. we think and there's there are many problems with the m.t.c. it's a very we could ministration it doesn't really have that much legitimacy there's been no proper elections yet but i think you have to remember that most libyans expected that they realized that there would be a certain amount of chaos after the fall of gadhafi this was a dictator who was in power for four decades and of course there are lots of pent

up resentments there are lots of conflicts between tribes and groups and cities in libya and there is no government at the moment to sort these problems are all nic if i can stay with them you have to get into into let me take notice of all it's not civil war yet but i think you will say anyone anywhere near there but don't you think it's very problematic that you have western countries recognizing the n.p.c. saying this is a legitimate government in libya when the libyans themselves in have a chance to say that did anybody even ask them. well i was in bangor shortly after the revolution broke out and people were absolutely begging for nato to intervene before just before where there were also strikes because people go ahead jump into and that's the point of the program go ahead there i mean there always you were in benghazi everybody knows that benghazi is precisely where the opposition was at what a month after that you had huge demonstrations in tripoli in favor of retaining the

regime or at least against the nato bombing so you can see the people there was some people that you saw that wanted this and there were others who didn't and the point is that an age old to choose to go with the ones that they knew that they were arming by the way as we find out later and that they encouraged to revolt knowing that they could get western support ok dirk want you to enter very very difficult to find anyone in tripoli and possibly anyone anywhere in libya. to agree with you on that of course there were large demonstrations in favor of gadhafi there were people who were being paid and that i was in a little i was in tripoli in august and pursuing their windows as well you know that. until they were really. very very popular there really is going to try to counter revolution hi folks come on folks it's going to jerk and. hand over

your shoulder and your beer you can call anything you can get a bunch of thugs to where i want to say this is a little bit and there's very little that you're somewhere you know you have. a french and you have resolution one thousand seven hundred three that has been accepted by the internet a lot you know a date which the united nations because it is a mascot of some very careful consideration to what would need to have in libya and frankly deliberations at that particular point in time remember when the libyan for a bottle be slaughtered in benghazi libya. were anxiously asking for intervention now you could argue as. they are arguing don't know who they're killing to nato intervention really went beyond what nine hundred seventy three allowed but nevertheless you have a government in place that is as was mentioned not elected which is a problem there certainly is an enormous amount of chaos and chaos may probably

deepen over the next few weeks in the next few months but overall i think the alternative that particular as you were looking at libya and september and october and so there really was no alternative and so yes you can argue that the international community who went to florida to responsibility to protect wasn't really implemented very carefully but i think in light of the difficulties that the country faced to the west and the libyans themselves faced enormous difficulties and that in the end i think everybody agreed that the regime change was almost an inevitability well it's well intreated once you say it once once you say that when you say there's no fly zone and we see this going on now with syria he must go then it is inevitable because in the west doesn't back down and it uses force here nick if i can go to you the problem here we have here right now in building a democratic state in libya and i think everyone most everyone wants that there's no state institutions should you be building state institutions first before you

start doing that are you putting the horse before the cart. well there's a terrific problem. how do how do you how do you feel the government in a country that's really never had any experience of democracy. i have to say i was very impressed in my time on the ground in libya with the people i met i met a lot of libyans was all different social backgrounds who want democracy they believe they can build some kind of democracy it will be a libyan democracy an arab democracy it will probably be quite different to the kind of democracies we have in the in the west but most people don't think it will be easy there are big economic problems to deal with there's this terrific militia problem there are lots of young men with weapons with no jobs for them to go to and i think a lot of the libyans i know are quite disappointed with the record of the m.t.c.

so far they would like to see a government that sin has more control and certainly has more control over the open over the militias and i think this is becoming a problem for libya at the moment elections you bring up here in a few nic you did you really have a very good point that you and the. whole that we haven't heard from the much from the iran do you know the lead going to jerk because he hasn't said as much you're go ahead. i mean you know the base the basic issue is that this is a country that for forty two years under gadhafi has seen a very systematic destruction of all the kind of modern institutions that you need to really make a modern state work and so in a sense the libyans are asked to really start with a tabular as i would absolutely nothing and one of the problems is that in a sense first of all there is the issue that the t n c is not truly a legitimate entity within libya but the other problem is that it is a matter of timing and that is there are an enormous amount of demands being made

for order for economic handouts for all the. as of things that the modern state does and there are indeed there are not the institutions there. in a sense the t.c.'s as an old modern state building experiments they're running against time and they're going to lose a lot of battles you can only hope that in the long run and particularly with the help of the united nations and so on that these institutions get created that the central government the successor to the t.n.c. is able to get what is called a model up only of violence that it can control the territory and that eventually these institutions will be created to bit by bit it's a long process the libyans were very aware of this the kind of talks that that took place at the united nations last summer for three months where the united nations was thinking very systematically about what libya needed indicated that there would be major problems and i think we're seeing that also

doesn't mean that it necessarily has to end and certainly means that the process could be prolonged and really messy go ahead diana go ahead and i think a lot of these things could have been foreseen when the bombs i am willing to go back. may i please go back to the first of all the statement that there was no alternative at the very beginning when there were the first people heard which turned out to be propaganda. about. bombing his own people that has been pretty well this proved since then now at the very beginning there was an opportunity and there were offers from latin america from africa to mediate to find some kind of compromise to find some evolution now the fact is that colonel gadhafi was mortal like every human being his regime has lasted probably too long but was not going to last forever because if we die all of this

and perhaps there was a way to. goal for evolution and evolution toward changes that would be more democratic and so on but when used coming in from the outside here and i'm going to lose and you create resentment to me and many with me it is just downright mean to be made right now how do i bring it up such and after a short break we'll continue our discussion on libya state starting. to. see. wealthy british style rolls. because.

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minefield costs and says feeds now in the palm of your. question on the. playbook and a slew. of. welcome back to call stop time here also mind you we're talking about what's going on in libya today. good. to. see. ok right before we go to the break and all the mayhem you wanted to say something so go right ahead. well i just want to take issue with what was just said about there being alternative store they actually have yes there are countries that try to start a diplomatic process you may remember that president zuma of south africa went to

libya a couple of times the african union to try to intervene but remember that very systematically from the beginning gadhafi refused to negotiate the refused to consider any kind of alternative to the invasion that actually then eventually happened it was said in his defense that his son safer as lamb also try to intervene and that say for the islam could function as an intermediary but you may remember that very famous interview that's a full islam gave two days after the uprising started that he himself was threatening to shoot everyone literally like rats in a barrel as he put it was dancing on top of an s.u.v. . in his hand there really were no alternatives anybody who makes you believe that gadhafi was willing to negotiate at that point simply does not know what the diplomatic process looked like that summer last year ok if i could change gears a little bit here next. week when you were you was or he wasn't it's their country

it's not ours and you're talking as if we have a perfect idea sit here and decide what other countries should do i disagree basically with that i don't think it's up to us to decide we're going to remember this is the resolution. of the united nations this is the entire donation resolution and it was a document the international community i had the right of your not only for that rather than telling the whole world what to do you just have this same old imperialist mentality that you have the right and the power because you have the power to tell other countries what to do and i basically disagree with that ok. do you do you think the right to protect doctrine is dead now or is it is severely undermined because of what happened in libya or strengthened the other way. well i think libya was an unusual case it's hard to see how it can be applied.