do you think the right to protect doctrine is dead now or is it is severely undermined because of what happened in libya or strengthened the other way. well i think libya was an unusual case it's hard to see how a right to protect can be applied to somewhere like syria for example you really read my mind you read my mind exactly ok. but i think i think its use in libya was very successful this wasn't regime change it was a revolution and. what whatever they were doing with the new and original start. with no injuries and change of scene when it did witness bin regime change if there had a little nato bombs in there would not have been a regime change without nato bombs. well i think you're probably right emotionally and so it's going to go on it was very clear from what was said beside what was said selfishly it was very clear that the countries involved including the united

states welcomed regime change if you look at the interviews that president obama secretary clinton and so on secretary gates at the time gave it was very clear from the beginning that in a sense the coalition would not simply abide by nine hundred seventy three implications of one thousand nine hundred seventy three but that the regime change was very much part and parcel of the collective durgan i could stay with you wasn't that an abuse of the resolution resolution one hundred seventy three. well i think there are many people that argue that indeed what the coalition then they went far beyond demanded that nine hundred seventy three allowed for them and therefore i think your question about whether the responsibility to protect still can still work is indeed a very good one libya indeed was a very unique case and part because of the language that was used by the regime and

so on and so it becomes much more difficult remember in libya you had the arab league on board very early on you had the fact that russia and china were willing to abstain rather than veto nine hundred seventy three i think that becomes much more difficult in a case like syria where particularly russia has a more direct interest it doesn't make it impossible i think but the diplomatic process to get to the kind of nine hundred seventy three type of resolution that we've seen on libya will prove to be much more difficult in syria and perhaps in the end may not happen ok diana fine go to you can you tell me who the hell is the n.p.c. who are these people after all these months it's still very opaque who are they. well you know only we know that these are people who who who were privileged under the old regime and who decided they could be more privileged under a western style regime i think you know this thing about wanting democracy when

when it seemed as if it had ended here because there's just no new year only us when i don't even finish i haven't said anything and you're interrupting me. i am staying there you have you said. you could override it which are simply not true what my problem. my problem with the m.t.c. is that a lot of the rhetoric there is that there are exiles that have come back and some of my actually lived in the suburbs of langley and that's my issue ok my issue is that these are western sarah gets and i saw this as a matter of fact one of the issues and libya is right now that when you talk to libyans they refer to the t.n.c. the transitional council as a government off foreigners and so i think you put your finger right on about these are not cronies of gadhafi as a matter of fact most of those people have been arranged out the t.n.c. has brought in and i'm not even if you were going to. lose a number of them were exiles and saw in

a sense that this part of the problem and why they are not legitimate is because they really have no standing in the country at this point to make you want to jump in they're going to have to remember with the end to see that many of these are brave people who are a great risk from gadhafi when they joined the revolution of last fall of being. able to go down anywhere you want to realize what a good escape i think i mean these are people that had western backing. the now are we live you went to see them took them to paris they were not risking very much they were sitting in benghazi under western protection whatever happened to the rest of this is they were already taken care of nic this is a this is a ridiculous see this is really going to. so only the guys who went into a sort of support were put in power by the west and if you had been in benghazi and seen the chaos of it in february march there was a spontaneous revolution and the people who stepped forward to join me and to so

you were completely disorganized there was no western backing for them at the beginning they got western backing later when he was under under attack actually from goods from curfews time but i think this was so this was a revolution it wasn't a regime change the writ of revolution came first and then the western backing came . and it was a rebellion if you it was a rebellion that was very quickly and armed rebellion and it is quite normal for governments wherever they are to repress an armed rebellion i'm sure that would happen in the u.k. as i did say so anywhere else and we cannot go around the. world supporting every single uprising in every single country no we just chose it because they don't like gadhafi and i thought this was an easy one this would there was no real armed forces as mr vandeleur have pointed out there was no real

army it was looked like a very very easy war to win and it was pretty easy although it took longer than they wanted and then afterwards there's chaos but as far as getting rid of gadhafi it looked so easy it was tempting and that's why he did and they're going to point out there's a lot of oil there as well right i'd like to change gears really change gears here there's a lot of oh oh there's a lot of money there's a lot of the outer jerk i'd like to go to you first it's a little out of resources and i listen i was so you know in the change here is we're running out of trying to help a africa become independent i want to change gears here and i want to go to work first i mean i want to look at interventions here and i'm going to include afghanistan and iraq ok when we have regime. change do you think that countries where there's a western intervention like we have with libya we have with iraq and we have with afghanistan and then compare it to like where there wasn't and there is a regime change when we look at tunisia and egypt don't you think it's indigenous

change of power there's a better chance for democracy like we have in egypt like we have in tunisia because western interventions military interventions slow it down or curb it or warp it and that's what we're seeing right now do you think that's fair. no i think that's a fair point to make i think if you have western intervention it creates inevitably and i think we will see this in libya sooner rather than later also it creates some kind of resentment and so if you can have a kind of if you want to an indigenous movement against those in power in the end i think it's tells spells greater success but we should qualify that also if we look for example at egypt where you know the rebellion was indigenous was really local as a matter of fact we've not seen a great amount of change and egypt and it looks as if egypt in the end to may look very much the way you did before the rebellion started a year ago so i think in principle it's right and i think certainly in libya does

it will turn out to have said this all along to be much more of a nationalist uprising than anything else and so eventually i think. it will come to some extent haunt the west but i think you're absolutely right local is better but we haven't we should remember also a local was possible in the case of egypt and tunisia very you had a national army that could serve as a buffer between the regime and the people the point was that in libya you had no national army you had militias that stood you know at the behest of that were there to be has of the gadhafi government when in libya the uprising started you truly had an implosion and what really was revealed was what we haven't seen in every other country so far that there's a total vacuum of power a total vacuum of institutions that the other speakers have really talked about and that makes it much much more difficult whether that is with western intervention or without western intervention to create

a modern state in libya ok ok nic i'm going to you the last word you have thirty i know that i know you want to make please let me go to nic nic is he going to get messier in libya. well yes i think it is going to be messy i think there's going to be several years of turmoil there may be some bloodshed there may be fighting between militias but i don't think it will become a civil war and you have to remember we're talking about western intervention this is a very limited western intervention how many western troops are there in libya at the moment. ok gentlemen and lady look like you all look like your own separate militias on this program many thanks to my guest today in hanover paris and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember prosperous.

syrian opposition fighters tightening control of the damascus just fifteen minutes from the center now is the u.n. starts closed door talks how do end the conflict. take their anger to the top in poland and gather outside the presidential palace in protest of the online anti-piracy pact which threatens regular internet users. and libya's new leaders face accusations of torture is doctors without borders pulled out of a key city saying the same patients keep returning with new interrogation injuries

. are you watching our teams very good every company just after midnight here now in moscow my name is kevin allen and first arm syrian opposition fighters are encroaching towards the capital having already seized control of a town on the outskirts some suburbs see nearly two dozen killed in the past two days and buildings heavily shelled our correspondent sara firth was there. when we got there we were met by the free syrian army now have control of the area and they showed us around they took us into the center there was absolutely massive anti-government demonstration going on there's a funeral procession going on at the same time as well so we were able to speak to the people who were living in this area to speak to some of the free syrian army members as well because of course a very little is known about who exactly these people are really have made it very

very clear to us just how divided the country is now becoming whilst we were that there was sort of a moment of confusion we did hear gunshots in the background some of the crowd got nervous and started running which for we we were all sort of told it was it was safer to leave and we then left that area a very tense situation certainly a very dangerous situation for the civilians in this area as well you gave these suburbs you can see bullet holes in the walls it's not really claire and so much of the country now who exactly has control of the fact that this is now happening in a suburb just fifteen minutes will say from the city center here in damascus where he goes to show you just how much the situation here is now deteriorating or russia has made its position extremely clear that they're not going to back the western resolution whilst it doesn't rule out the sanctions the military intervention they've put their own proposal forward and you've had this sort of back and forth

with neither sides really being able to come to some form of agreement i mean the big sticking point here really is the military intervention because so many different factions in the country it is even more still here in the country very very hard to really understand who exactly is in charge where and who has the voice of the people because this is a originally a peaceful protest movement even now got increasingly armed opposition groups and there's reports today that saudi arabia that could tar have said that they're going to be backing up. position and providing funding and arms as well and the last thing that anyone wants to see here at the moment is that this conflicts of become even more armed even more violent because the daily death toll is you know just devastatingly high at the moment talking to the people in this suburb today they were extremely emotional you know the people here in this country have lost all sense of safety all sense of security. polish protesters gathered in front of the

presidential palace in warsaw late on friday as part of a week of rallies after the government signed a two notorious international web piracy pact earlier impedes their dog anonymous hacker groups mouse to show their content on his legs here and jessica's been following closely what's happening in warsaw for us. they are here to protest protest against act the anti cons of the trade agreement which poland signed on thursday along with twenty one other european union member states and it is here in poland in fact the only country in the e.u. where protests have been having very strong movement here in fact tens of thousands of people have been protesting over the past three or four days everywhere across poland we went to a little town of lubin thursday and even then where the population of roughly exceeds one hundred thousand people almost three through three or four thousand people hit the streets in protest against act clearly people in poland are unhappy with the fact that their government signed this document they believe that it would

be used against regular internet users to police the web to block websites for harmless actions and their message to only the clear message that these people are having here in the crowd is no internet censorship it's twenty one even member states which signed for it the document will become effective and all the countries once their parliaments ratified and the european parliament says that i'm seeing something this these people here are hoping for because even the polish authorities have now taken a step back and they say that the rich if it cation will not necessarily happen as it had been predicted by many experts and the european in fact there's been a scandal in the european parliament already with a french deputy in the european parliament already resigning because of actors essentially act is about protecting intellectual property from music and books to different designer clothes and pharmaceuticals but the people here protesting in poland they are afraid that because parishioners would be able to close down

websites for let's say harmless links to videos or t.v. shows or movies or something which most of the uses they do on every day basis so they think that this document will be misused by b. corporations and by the authorities and the whole already have been. several examples of that this document actually has a striking resemblance to this sopa bill in the united states so clearly the warsaw protests are the only ones in europe so far but we could be seeing more and more rallies and more protest actions across europe as the parliament's face the rich a fixation of actor in the nearest several weeks. european correspondent there bring you some today was how there was so let's talk now to dominik dominica. the coordinator of the media freedom project in poland the helsinki foundation for human rights i got all that right dominica good to see on the program thanks for being with us it looks like it may be a bit of a dodgy line but we'll all go and see how we get on now if media is allowed to be

swapped freely where does the money come from i guess is a basic question to make the new stuff to make the new media coming along. well i believe we should be aware. of market research. people are. feeling that they were cheated by the government and that something is wrong and that there were no confrontation and there was not a good debate before our before and the signature of the document and all of their government and not feel the correct remedy for the consultation and make other the many whole week possible consultation and explanation for all the people grow the thing under three words the document is really about. what are the key here is.

really really important and possible and what are the for the consequence of eternity you think that are absolute i can see a worry i can see worry how it's being implemented how it's been formulated the secrecy about it but i go back to the first question how would you like to see this on the face of it it's to police the internet. to make sure the people don't take property that they haven't paid for so i go back to again to save all this information on the web is swap freely there's less and less money go back into the originators of media content to freshen it so that was where the what's your plan of how would you like to police the internet. well i think that. we should but on the model it means we cannot create a model which will eventually die in a debate nick redone. right to privacy or our freedom

of information or. question and the problem with aca is that the general love the. way it is so great it's my violate those basic freedoms and interfere with the freedom of users without really patching of the violators of the internet and those internet providers the companies which are taking advantage of. the internet. are not only need to have that balance between on one hand. tracking tracking the internet but on the others and. so they think ok i get your message but surely the people of the other twenty countries or the side of to act are also feeling the same way what we're seeing

them out on the streets like we're seeing the people in poland why the polish people so vexed about this. i think because it's not the first time it happened there were work maybe happen in the region. and it would be internet and every time people have the impression that the government is making that without compensation without hearing. there now and the internet you there and i don't believe it is one of. the action which would and they're making you angry and one action which was too much and people that it was there. and who play and show their vision of the internet thing that maybe now government and you do not understand our model and our

way of human being would be good i think ok thanks for your thoughts much appreciated to america there on the line from warsaw thank you. run could cut off it's all supplies to europe as early as next week in a radio signal that so when they could flick the switch parliament prepared to debate it on sunday it's to preempt the embargo that's set to start in july which is designed to force a run into talks over its nuclear work arounds repeatedly said in recent weeks that it is ready to do just that but the u.s. first wants around though to prove its atomic program is peaceful you had inspectors a jew there in the coming days global policy consultants got a money told me that by threatening to turn off the top arounds hoping to cushion the e.u. above or below. the calculus from iran's perspective is going to be if a preamp by cutting exports the forward to july first date that the e.u.

has set for cutting exports and iraq preferably cuts its three four hundred thousand barrels with their exports to the e.u. will it be able to drive prices up. enough by doing that to offset for that you know right now what is going on with iran is that the there is an existential threat to the government and quite frankly from the u.s. perspective i don't think there's a lot of hope that these sanctions will actually get iran to stop its nuclear program think the real unwritten objective here is quite frankly in and call it by different name but it's regime change ultimately they want to put as much pressure that as they can on this government but there is a theory that iran will build its enrichment program and its technological capabilities to the threshold of being able to weaponize and that point in time might might be more willing to compromise that's been a hope that the u.s. you know some of the more dovish elements the u.s. of hope that that would be the case. libya's new government is being accused of torture and abuse in detention centers frontier's suspending its mission in misrata

right now saying it's repeatedly treating patients for injuries sustained during interrogation with thousands of gadhafi loyalists still behind bars it's now raising questions about the people that need to help bring the powers arties may have a national explains. doctors without borders known for going do their job in the most dangerous and notorious places around the globe but in n.t.s.c. iran libya the group has encountered a formidable obstacle they couldn't overcome burns through electric shocks and cigarettes heavy bruising and renal failure all this evidence of the continue torture of prisoners say the doctors and now after two inmates died from beatings the international group has stopped its mission in protest. patients were brought to us in the middle of interrogation for medical care in order to make them fit for further interrogation this is an acceptable our rule is to provide medical care to

war casualties and sick detainees not to repeatedly treat the same patients between torture sessions the news comes amidst rising anger with levy's interim government demonstrations in benghazi last week ended with the resignation of a high ranking member of the m.t.c. in the former gadhafi stronghold of bani walid locals pushed out their terms you can also forces claim in systematic abuse it started with the very beginning of the rebellion very beginning of the insurrection the second day of the rebellion. the february the african migrants were rounded up and locked in a detention center and burnt to death and then peace expressed support for this time and this is part of the strategy of the west you know divide and rule that was given the green light but the torture and execution that we're seeing now so this is a recipe for civil war meanwhile the nato operation that brought them to see to power

is by itself raising the question is. high profile international team of human rights activists has been to leave here to investigate some of make sure that it bears entity of where with their evolution in the fronds. and there were guiding the air raids and they addicting them and court have been making them if you are mandated. protectively view is that. it is very very accurate in a way that i myself saw the killing of so many people in front of more my eyes i saw the killing of fifty one people in front of my eyes the youngest was fifteen years old and while all sides in the live in conflict are to blame for violence and violations the human rights activists claim not all of them have been held responsible for their wrongdoings investigating what happened during libya's seven

months civil war and the nato campaign to protect civilians this fact the mission discovered again crimes against humanity but the goal was not to charge but to shed light on what happened and not to repeat the mistakes in recent united nations report has reviewed that up to eight thousand supporters have been held by militia groups in libya right now and with numerous accuse ations of torture and revenge killings throughout the country hopes of a new beginning for libya are fading quickly. r.t. . the delegates in davos had their money on the table today at the world economic forum as they assessed the euro the dollar and the u.s. the struggling euro zone and the future of heavily indebted greece was inevitably on the cards with cautious optimism and sharp criticism alike. great chief economic correspondent of the u.k. newspaper the independent it told me

a single currency for european debt won't work unless competitiveness is given a boost. i don't think you have to be a whiz at math to figure out that is not just the indebtedness of some countries but also the euro oh the common currency. is a single currency for an area where some countries need a devaluation i don't know whether technically greece is going to be in default or not but if you'll reach a thirty or forty cents in the euro your debt and the write down is going to something like that could be four to say forty if you're lucky thirty if you're unlucky bracket any rational six b. is a country defaulting on its debts and whether technically that is or whether it take it seems to me to be not that relevant because once you've dealt with greece ok you tried have to put a fireball.