and because they are strong businesses which rely on that for property law and they want to enforce it all over the world but this doesn't mean that this is good for the people and this is why would we have this protest in poland because people feel oppressed by that essentially actor is about protecting intellectual property from music and books to pharmaceuticals and clothes similar in form to the stalled us bill sober and people that also sparked widespread protests however critics say actor was engineered in complete secrecy bypassing government procedures and the criminal punishment it allows alerted many in the legislation must be founded in the public opinion of what's right and wrong when you have a copyright industry that's talking about extraditing a person who has done nothing but linking to t.v. shows extradition does something useful murder and genocide does this is

such an abuse of power. think its time is more than ripe for a serious review of what we want with copyright law and it's certainly not calling out teenagers terrorists. but. if you doubt this will happen given that prime minister party holds the majority and we say the government says the agreement is not a threat to freedom but maintained the internet should not be a space of legal. but protesters say they will bring even more people to warsaw central square on friday to stop it becoming law in the space of just three days protests and phone have managed to gather tens of thousands of people and while this is still little chance that this bill would not make it through parliament the rallies unlikely to die down lets you assess the r.t. reporting from poland. still ahead on r t pornography is a multibillion dollar

a year business but are the police about to run porn producers out of los angeles more on the crackdown over condoms coming up. what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decisions to break through it's already been made who can you trust no one who is you in view with the global machinery see where we had a state controlled capitalism it's called sessions when nobody dares to ask we do our t. question more. the government in los angeles is cracking down on the pornography industry and how performers have sex porn actors in l.a. will now have to use condoms on set if not the filmmakers were not be able to obtain a permit to film this unprecedented law was signed by mayor antonio said this week

an adult film producers who bring a lot of money into the area may take their movies elsewhere since many of them say people won't want to watch porn with the actors wearing condoms it's boring others to ask why the city is even creating laws like this at a time when tens of thousands are living on the streets and many other basic needs are not being met as artie's or mongol windows shows us the political mess over condoms could be a costly one. it's a very dangerous issue. not only is it unconstitutional but it's kind of against our human rights at a time of growing concern about government in people's liberties the porn industry is for right they say is under attack so i prefer not to use condoms you want to say like. the city of los angeles has they

proved a new ordinance which mandates performers like aaliyah janine and domino presley must use condoms well having sex on set the unique law has people worried about a nanny state criminalizing consensual acts between adults. and wearing condoms and porn yeah i mean take. place where from the point of having sex on film anyway i think they're wasting their time that's like asking everybody to wear condoms in their home and i don't think the government should be interrelate regulating sex many also wonder if this is really the most serious and pressing issue facing this city i'm sorry they're always kind of i don't know when they're going to say we want twenty four hours so yeah it would be nice if they would allocate funds for something more productive to the people while china and other countries build high speed rail and modernize their infrastructure here it can take years just to get approval to make improvements to the transit system but while the city struggles to

settle these issues it will be in the business of enforcing who puts on one of these. the condom requirement could also push out the multibillion dollar porn industry a source of major economic stimulus in the area if this is put in place it's quite possible and probable that the producers will move out of. significant loss of revenue for the city. the adult film industry is estimated to generate fourteen billion dollars a year and most of it is made in the los angeles area i know that probably every day. you know fifty to one hundred films in porn. or renting a house for. you know. an inflow of money l.a. sorely needs as it struggles with a massive budget crisis we should be more concerned with legitimate issues whether

than others like porn actors actually using condoms and there are plenty of issues there have been nearly four hundred thousand foreclosures in l.a. county since two thousand and eight and today more than fifty thousand people are homeless official unemployment hovers at twelve percent the real rate likely much higher census numbers show that nearly one in five in los angeles are living below the poverty line and close to a million people receive food stamps something for the city to think about what it plays condom police in los angeles. r.t. . all right so this could be a story about the changing face of porn but in many ways this is also a business story a story about regulation enforcement and big big money as we heard in the report fourteen billion dollars so i want to talk now to someone who may have the best idea about how much of an impact this new law will have chanelle preston is an adult film actress she's in los angeles now to give us

a better idea hey there chanel i talk to me give me your reaction when this law passed how will it affect you. i think most people are upset because they feel that it's more of a witch hunt than anything rather than them saying you know this is for your safety i think people just feel like it's an attack on us and it's going to really affect this because we don't know where the industry is going we're already having a hard time as it is because of the economy and we're kind of not really sure what's going to happen right now i mean you say this is a witch hunt why would this be an interesting than an industry that anyone would be hunting or be after considering especially about how much money it brings into the area absolutely and i think that's a question we all have like why are they doing this i think that what happened is the aids healthcare foundation decided that this was a problem and they're really pushing for this condom use when we're like is it

a problem is hiv a problem within our industry or is your problem ever worlds i think that's a that's a good point but you know this is an industry that a lot of people kind of figured was already regulating itself making sure actors and actresses are disease free but at least in one case someone said at least that they contracted hiv while working that was reported so give me some insight here how can you be sure that what you're doing is safe. well obviously it can't be one hundred percent safe and when you get into that industry you understand that there's a lot of jobs out there that that something you understand going into it this is not one hundred percent safe and we know that so i think for someone to come into the industry and even get not just a regular a c d for them to be outraged by this is a little bit ridiculous that is going to be a risk we do regulate ourselves and it has worked every thirty days we get tested.

i've never been on a set where anybody has worked without a test even if it's not a regular sex scene even if it's there's just a little bit of contact if you don't have a test you do not work and it has always been like that since i've been in the industry i think that's a that's good to know because i think a lot of people didn't know that and i wanted to say to you know on the other side of the coin as you say this is an act between consenting adults there are plenty of adults who do things that may be dangerous. and so you say you're wondering why the government got involved in this specifically has there been any talk among you and your coworkers about why this was targeted we just showed in our report there's a lot of other issues in l.a. that should be dealt with. absolutely i personally feel like sex people are funny with sex almost makes them angry and they want to do something about it and naturally they feel like condoms is the way to go

a lot of people that are passing this law don't understand what goes into making porn and how sex for performance is completely different than sex in your personal life. condoms break and they hurt when you're having sex for long periods of time and people are worried that when this goes into effect that people are going to stop testing and that they're going to feel even more unsafe when it's just condoms and no testing and two final questions where you can i mean first of all how is this law even going to be enforced and facon of allah and mean do you think that that people will stop watching these movies which millions of people as we know across the world and certainly in this country do want do you think that's going to mean the audience will diminish well for one we don't know who's going to enforce these laws that's a question we're all wondering who's going to be the condom police we're not really sure. and also i think people will stop watching

and i know people will stop watching porn completely but i know that in two thousand and four when a lot of people started using condoms a lot of the revenue went down and so that's just a fact that. it will be a problem for industry financially i guess i do have one more question have you been told by any of the producers the directors that you've worked with is anyone threatening to leave yet and if so where will they go. no one has threatened to leave as of yet because i think this is such a new thing we're just waiting it out to see what happens as far as where we'll go if we were to leave i know vegas has welcomed us with open arms and possibly florida two those are two places where porn is already shot obviously not as much as ollie but yeah i'd lean probably vegas it seems like you guys do have so many studios there and again these people stay in hotels they buy food adult film actress chanel preston thanks for giving us some insight here thank you all right

and for now that'll do it for more on the stories we covered go to our t. dot com slash usa or check out our youtube page at youtube dot com slash r t america and you can also follow me on twitter at christine for. more news today. these are the images are girls and seeing from the streets of canada. joint operations room today.

if you. start. blowing welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle libya intervention light in the specter of civil war libya's transition away from the khadafi regime is proving far more problematic than nato planners had ever anticipated central civilian control

is an illusion and tribal loyalties strong it would appear it is a lot easier to take down a regime than to establish a new order. and. start. to cross not libya i'm joined by dr venter while in hanover he is an associate professor of government at dartmouth college in paris we cross the advantage on stone she is an independent political commentator and author of fool's crusade yugoslavia nato and western delusions and in london we have nick mayo he is a foreign correspondent for the sunday telegraph all right folks this is crossfire that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it and i'd like to first go to diana diana is the the intervention that we saw nato undergo was it an intervention without responsibility because libya is a mess and it's getting messier all the time particularly in light of the last few

hours a day or so of torture charges and the n.p.c. is proving to be very very inept. well that was perfectly foreseeable when you when you go in and change a regime by bombing you know you're causing chaos. and they didn't seem to care that they were going to be causing chaos because they didn't like gadhafi and they seized an opportunity to get rid of leader that they didn't like figuring perhaps or wrongly that anything would be more favorable since any new leaders would be grateful to them for coming to power but that definitely remains to be seen ok nic if i go to you. i'm going to do a play on words here i mean a lot of people see there was an illegitimate use of force with the u.n. resolution one nine hundred seventy three to overthrow gadhafi and because of that

it would make use of force we see illegitimate use of force also now after the fact in libya because there is no legitimate use of force by any central government. well there is real chaos on the ground in libya at the moment it's a problem with militias as you say have been large numbers of people detained large numbers of people tortured. we think and there's there are many problems with the m.t.c. it's a very weak ministration it doesn't really have that much legitimacy there's been no proper elections yet but i think you have to remember that most libyans expected that they realized that there would be a certain amount of chaos after the fall of gadhafi this was a dictator who was in power for four decades and of course there are lots of pent up resentments there are lots of conflicts between tribes and groups and cities in libya and there is no government at the moment to sort these problems at home nic

if i can stay with them you have to get into into let me take notice of well it's not civil war yet but i don't think it was anywhere anywhere near that but don't you think it's very problematic that you have western countries recognizing the n.p.c. saying this is a legitimate government in libya when the libyans themselves in have a chance to say that did anybody even ask them. well i was in benghazi shortly after the revolution broke out and people were absolutely begging for nato to intervene before just before where there were also strikes because people go ahead jump into and that's the point of the program go ahead there i mean they're always you were in benghazi everybody knows that benghazi is precisely where the opposition was at what a month after that you had huge demonstrations in tripoli in favor of retaining the regime or at least against the nato bombing so you can see the people there were some people that you saw that wanted this and there were others who didn't and the

point is that an age old to choose to go with the ones that they knew that they were arming by the way as we find out later and that they encouraged to revolt knowing that they could get western support ok dirk why don't you just got your letter very very difficult to find anyone in tripoli and possibly anyone anywhere in libya. to agree with you on that of course there were large demonstrations in favor of gadhafi there were people who were being paid and that i was in a little i was in tripoli in august of pursuing they will know that you know that. they will remain in iraq is very very popular it's going to try to counter revolution hi folks come on folks it's going to. be you can call it anything you can get a bunch of thugs to where i want to say this is a little bit and there's a very very simple to do somewhere you know you have. the french and you have

resolution i two hundred seventy three that has been accepted by the internet evaluate which the united nations because the resolution of this is a matter of congress i'm very careful consideration to what would need to have libya and frankly deliberations at that particular point in time remember when the libyans are about to be slaughtered in benghazi libya. anxiously asking for intervention now you could argue as a result of the army they are arguing don't have the nato intervention really went to beyond what nine hundred seventy three allowed but nevertheless you have a government in place that is as was mentioned not elected which is a problem there certainly is an enormous amount of chaos and chaos may probably deepen over the next few weeks in the next few months but overall i think the alternative that particular as you were looking at libya and september and october

and so there really was no alternative and so yes you can argue that the international community who went to florida to responsibility to protect wasn't really implemented very carefully but i think in light of the difficulties that the country faced to do west and the libyans themselves faced enormous difficulties and that in the end i think everybody agreed that the regime change was almost an inevitability well it's well into it once you say it when she once you say that when you say there's no fly zone and we see this going on now with syria he must go then it is inevitable because in the west doesn't back down and it uses force here nick if i can go to you the problem here we have here right now in building a democratic state in libya and i think everyone most everyone wants that there's no state institutions should be building state institutions first before you start doing that are you putting the horse before the cart. paul there's a terrific problem in really the world how do how do you how do you feel the

government in a in a country that's really never had any experience of democracy. i have to say i was very impressed in my time on the ground in libya with the people i met and i met a lot of libyans was all different social backgrounds who want democracy they believe they can build some kind of democracy it will be a libyan democracy an arab democracy it will probably be quite different to the kind of democracies we have in the in the west but most people don't think it will be easy there are a big economic problems to deal with there's this terrific militia problem there are lots of young men with weapons with no jobs for them to go to that and i think a lot of the libyans i know are quite disappointed with the record of the m.t.c. so far they would like to see a government that satan has more control and certainly has more control over the over over the militias and i think this is becoming

a problem for libya at the moment there are elections you bring up a very good a few do you have a very good point that you know the. whole that we haven't heard from it much from the i can do you know let's go to jerk because he hasn't said as much you're go ahead. i mean you know the debate the basic issue is that this is a country that for forty two years under gadhafi has seen a very systematic destruction of all the kind of modern institutions that you need to really make a modern state work and so in a sense the libyans are asked to really start with a toddler as i would absolutely nothing and one of the problems is that in a sense first of all there is the issue that the t.n.c. is not truly a legitimate entity within libya but the other problem is that is a matter of timing and that is there are an enormous amount of demands being made for order for economic handouts for all the. as of things that the modern state does and there are indeed there are not the institutions there. in

a sense the t.c.'s as an old modern state building experiments they're running against time and they're going to lose a lot of battles you can only hope that in the long run and particularly with the help of the united nations and so on that these institutions get created that the central government the successor to the t.n.c. is able to get what is called the valar pally of violence that it can control the territory and that eventually these institutions will be created to bit by bit it's a long process the libyans were very aware of this the kind of talks that that took place at the united nations last summer for three months where the united nations was thinking very systematically about what libya needed indicated that there would be major problems and i think we're seeing that also doesn't mean that it necessarily has to end in chaos but it certainly means that the process could be prolonged and pretty messy go ahead diana go ahead and i think a lot of these things could have been foreseen when the bombs i am willing to go

back. may i please go back to. first of all the statement that there was no alternative at the very beginning when there were the first people or it was turned out to be propaganda iranians about. bombing his own people there has been pretty well this proved since then now at the very beginning there was an opportunity and there were offers from latin america from africa to mediate to find some kind of compromise to find some evolution now the fact is that you cannot get daffy was mortal like every human being his regime has lasted probably too long but was not going to last forever because. if we die all of this and perhaps there was a way to cuba. goal for evolution and evolution toward changes that would

be more democratic and so on but when you come in and from the outside here and i'm going to lose and you create resentment me and many with me is just downright mean to be made right now are you going to bring folks in and after a short break we'll continue our discussion climb libya state starting. to. see. wealthy british style massage. market. can. find out what's really happening to the global economy

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mum. mum. mum. mum led. the lead. sister to. the south of. lebanon. i'm here with the reminder we're talking about what's going on in libya today. slept. the suburbs. ok right before we went to the break in all the mayhem you want to say something so go right ahead. well i just want to take issue with what was just said about there being alternative store they actually have yes there are countries that try to start

a diplomatic process you may remember that president zuma of south africa went to libya a couple of times the african union tried to intervene but remember that very systematically from the beginning gadhafi refused to negotiate the refused to consider any kind of alternative to the invasion that actually did eventually happen it was said in his defense that his son so far as lamb also try to intervene and that say for the islam could function as an intermediary but you may remember that very famous interview that's a full islam gave two days after the uprising started that he himself was threatening to shoot everyone literally like rats in a barrel as he put it was dancing on top of an s.u.v. . in his hand there really were no alternatives anybody who makes you believe that gadhafi was willing to negotiate at that point simply does not know what the diplomatic process looked like that summer last year ok if i could change gears

a little bit here next. week when you were you was or he wasn't it's their country it's not ours and you're talking as if we have a person trying to sit here and decide what other countries should do i disagree basically with that i don't think it's up to us to decide we're going to remember this is the resolution. of the united nations this is the entire donation resolution and it was a document the international community i had the right of your not only for that rather than telling the whole world what to do you just have this same old imperialist mentality that you have the right and the power because you have the power to tell other countries what to do and i basically disagree with that ok. do you do you think the right to protect doctrine is dead now or is it is severely undermined because of what happened in libya or strengthened the other way. well i think libya was an unusual can.